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Re: [atlas_craftsman] Question.............

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  • Jon Elson
    ... Atlas beds are most certainly NOT hardened from the factory. Regrinding 10 thousandths off a hardened bed would remove the hardened layer, but you don t
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 30, 2001
      Manuel Sanchez wrote:

      > Does anyone know if - when you have the lathe bed re-ground, does it keep it's hardened ways, or does it need to be hardened again? Or was it ever hardened? It would be about 5 - 10 thousands of an inch grind. And also, how deep is the hardening anyway?
      > My lathe is a 12 inch Craftsman 1937 model.

      Atlas beds are most certainly NOT hardened from the factory. Regrinding 10 thousandths
      off a hardened bed would remove the hardened layer, but you don't have one (Which is
      one reason the beds do wear so much).

      Jon
    • Jim Irwin
      So far, everyone who has responded to this guy s honest question has given either a confusing, smart-assed response or an outright misinformed response. It is
      Message 2 of 13 , Dec 3, 2001
        So far, everyone who has responded to this guy's honest question has given
        either a confusing, smart-assed response or an outright misinformed response.

        It is true Atlas ways are not hardened.

        Hardening can either be
        1. Surface (as in case hardening) up to a few thousandths deep at most

        2. Superficial (as flame hardening) up to 20 or 30 thou deep, or even more.

        3. Through (as in quenched and tempered)


        FYI--

        Methods 1 & 3 take heating the whole bed to red heat, followed with added
        processing. Neither would be practical for a lathe bed.

        No 2 (flame hardening) is done with sophisticated water cooled oxy-acetylene
        torches, scanned mechanically at a given rate to heat the surface (down to a
        given depth) then quench it immediately so that the bulk of the machine doesn't
        get heated much at all. Intrigueing process to watch happening! Fast and fairly
        stress free. But lots of overhead to set up. Therefore. only practical for the
        OEM to do this. Advantage is that it is a fairly deep treatment.


        Best regards,

        Jim Irwin
      • Manuel Sanchez
        Hi grop I want to thank you for the info on Atlas lathes ways I believe there is also induction hardening ,I was considering if it was worth grinding the ways
        Message 3 of 13 , Dec 4, 2001
          Hi grop
          I want to thank you for the info on Atlas lathes ways I believe there is
          also induction hardening ,I was considering if it was worth grinding the
          ways or just buy another lathe .After much consideration I am leaning toward
          the lathe sold by Harbor Freight 12x36 Does anyone have some feedback on
          this lathe?

          thanks

          Manny
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Jim Irwin <jimirwin@...>
          To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
          Date: Monday, December 03, 2001 12:36 PM
          Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Question.............


          >So far, everyone who has responded to this guy's honest question has given
          >either a confusing, smart-assed response or an outright misinformed
          response.
          >
          >It is true Atlas ways are not hardened.
          >
          >Hardening can either be
          >1. Surface (as in case hardening) up to a few thousandths deep at most
          >
          >2. Superficial (as flame hardening) up to 20 or 30 thou deep, or even more.
          >
          >3. Through (as in quenched and tempered)
          >
          >
          >FYI--
          >
          >Methods 1 & 3 take heating the whole bed to red heat, followed with added
          >processing. Neither would be practical for a lathe bed.
          >
          >No 2 (flame hardening) is done with sophisticated water cooled
          oxy-acetylene
          >torches, scanned mechanically at a given rate to heat the surface (down to
          a
          >given depth) then quench it immediately so that the bulk of the machine
          doesn't
          >get heated much at all. Intrigueing process to watch happening! Fast and
          fairly
          >stress free. But lots of overhead to set up. Therefore. only practical for
          the
          >OEM to do this. Advantage is that it is a fairly deep treatment.
          >
          >
          >Best regards,
          >
          >Jim Irwin
          >
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          >
          >
        • catboat15@aol.com
          In a message dated 12/4/2001 8:01:33 PM Pacific Standard Time, ... How bad is your Atlas? I have had some experiences with some of the Chinese lathes and was
          Message 4 of 13 , Dec 4, 2001
            In a message dated 12/4/2001 8:01:33 PM Pacific Standard Time,
            mksanchez@... writes:


            > After much consideration I am leaning toward
            > the lathe sold by Harbor Freight 12x36 Does anyone have some feedback on
            > this lathe?
            >

            How bad is your Atlas? I have had some experiences with some of the Chinese
            lathes and was sure glad to sell my Jet 9 X 20 and find an Atlas in good
            shape. Much better machine, heavier and I think better made. If your Atlas
            can be salvaged with a few parts I think you would be money ahead and a
            happier lathe owner.
            Just my opinion, others may differ.

            John Meacham
            California High Desert
            12 inch Atlas, Minimill, rusty file


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Jon Elson
            ... I would second this opinion. Even if an Atlas needs some major repairs, it would cost a lot less than a new import lathe. I have heard of beds being
            Message 5 of 13 , Dec 4, 2001
              catboat15@... wrote:

              > In a message dated 12/4/2001 8:01:33 PM Pacific Standard Time,
              > mksanchez@... writes:
              >
              > > After much consideration I am leaning toward
              > > the lathe sold by Harbor Freight 12x36 Does anyone have some feedback on
              > > this lathe?
              > >
              >
              > How bad is your Atlas? I have had some experiences with some of the Chinese
              > lathes and was sure glad to sell my Jet 9 X 20 and find an Atlas in good
              > shape. Much better machine, heavier and I think better made. If your Atlas
              > can be salvaged with a few parts I think you would be money ahead and a
              > happier lathe owner.
              > Just my opinion, others may differ.

              I would second this opinion. Even if an Atlas needs some major repairs,
              it would cost a lot less than a new import lathe. I have heard of beds
              being reground for about $150. if your Atlas breaks down in 10 years,
              you will have no difficulty getting parts at reasonable prices. if your Jet
              breaks down in 10 years, you'll find that the current model has no
              interchangable
              parts with yours, and the old parts supply has run out, or it will take 9
              months to order the part from China, etc.

              Jon
            • jerdal
              12 x 36 is not anything like the wobbly, thin, 9 x 20. Much nicer. But Harbor Freight is a low-ball, no service, yeah I guess we got machines too vendor.
              Message 6 of 13 , Dec 5, 2001
                12 x 36 is not anything like the wobbly, thin, 9 x 20. Much nicer. But
                Harbor Freight is a low-ball, no service, "yeah I guess we got machines too"
                vendor.
                Jerry

                > > After much consideration I am leaning toward
                > > the lathe sold by Harbor Freight 12x36 Does anyone have some feedback on
                > > this lathe?
                > >
                >
                > How bad is your Atlas? I have had some experiences with some of the
                Chinese
                > lathes and was sure glad to sell my Jet 9 X 20 and find an Atlas in good
                > shape. Much better machine, heavier and I think better made. If your
                Atlas
                > can be salvaged with a few parts I think you would be money ahead and a
                > happier lathe owner.
                > Just my opinion, others may differ.
              • Koepke, Kevin
                I will second this opinion. I have recently been to a Harbor Freight store, and their lathes display had bent sheet metal and still had preservative on them.
                Message 7 of 13 , Dec 5, 2001
                  I will second this opinion. I have recently been to a Harbor Freight store,
                  and their lathes display had bent sheet metal and still had preservative on
                  them. I can recommend Enco and Grizzly. Their primary sales are machines.

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: jerdal [mailto:jerdal@...]
                  Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 6:50 AM
                  To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Question.............


                  12 x 36 is not anything like the wobbly, thin, 9 x 20. Much nicer. But
                  Harbor Freight is a low-ball, no service, "yeah I guess we got machines too"
                  vendor.
                  Jerry

                  > > After much consideration I am leaning toward
                  > > the lathe sold by Harbor Freight 12x36 Does anyone have some feedback on
                  > > this lathe?
                  > >
                  >
                  > How bad is your Atlas? I have had some experiences with some of the
                  Chinese
                  > lathes and was sure glad to sell my Jet 9 X 20 and find an Atlas in good
                  > shape. Much better machine, heavier and I think better made. If your
                  Atlas
                  > can be salvaged with a few parts I think you would be money ahead and a
                  > happier lathe owner.
                  > Just my opinion, others may differ.



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                • walnut_charlie
                  Manuel, I have had 3 Atlas lathes (9 , 10 , 12 ), 1 Sheldon (11 ), and 1 Logan (10 ). I ve used Hardinge, Leblond and numerous other lathes. I currently
                  Message 8 of 13 , Dec 5, 2001
                    Manuel,
                    I have had 3 Atlas lathes (9", 10", 12"), 1 Sheldon (11"), and 1
                    Logan (10"). I've used Hardinge, Leblond and numerous other
                    lathes. I currently have a 1981 vintage Jet back gear 12" x 36"
                    lathe. It is heavier built than the Atlas and Logans I owned. The
                    hole through the spindle is much larger. Parts probably will be a
                    problem in the future but frankly, I've owned lathes for 33 years now
                    and only had to buy parts for the Atlas. Other lathes have needed
                    things like bushings but I've made all of those. I design and build
                    tooling in the medical device business. I restore antique cars and
                    old woodworking equipment. I got the Jet for free several years
                    ago. I'm sure that my next statement will raise a few eye brows but I
                    have to say that Jet is SUPERIOR to the other OLDER lathes that I've
                    owned. I would recomend though not buying a Asian import smaller
                    than a 12". All lathes cam make things. Some are just more
                    versitile.
                    Walnut Charlie







                    --- In atlas_craftsman@y..., "Manuel Sanchez" <mksanchez@p...> wrote:
                    After much consideration I am leaning toward
                    > the lathe sold by Harbor Freight 12x36 Does anyone have some
                    feedback on
                    > this lathe?
                    >
                  • Mario L Vitale
                    Charlie, You may have hit on something. While I don t own one, the complaints I ve heard about the newer Asian lathes ...(no real low spindle speed, no
                    Message 9 of 13 , Dec 5, 2001
                      Charlie,
                      You may have hit on something. While I don't own one, the complaints I've
                      heard about the newer Asian lathes ...(no real low spindle speed, no
                      reversing, the wimpy lead screw )... seem to be associated with the smaller
                      lathes (10" and under) which seem to be intended for the home shop user. The
                      larger ones do appear to be more a piece of industrial equipment, and are
                      quite robust, and full featured, machines.....not to mention, affordable!
                      I would agree with the concensus expressed here, that if you are looking
                      at a 10" dia. (or under) capacity lathe you'd be much better off with a used
                      American lathe. However, if you are looking at a 12" or larger lathe, I
                      think one would have to look at the specific machines that are available to
                      you to make a good decision.

                      Respectfully submitted,

                      Mario


                      ----- Original
                      Message -----
                      From: walnut_charlie <walnut_charlie@...>
                      To: <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 7:33 AM
                      Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Question.............


                      > Manuel,
                      > I have had 3 Atlas lathes (9", 10", 12"), 1 Sheldon (11"), and 1
                      > Logan (10"). I've used Hardinge, Leblond and numerous other
                      > lathes. I currently have a 1981 vintage Jet back gear 12" x 36"
                      > lathe. It is heavier built than the Atlas and Logans I owned. The
                      > hole through the spindle is much larger. Parts probably will be a
                      > problem in the future but frankly, I've owned lathes for 33 years now
                      > and only had to buy parts for the Atlas. Other lathes have needed
                      > things like bushings but I've made all of those. I design and build
                      > tooling in the medical device business. I restore antique cars and
                      > old woodworking equipment. I got the Jet for free several years
                      > ago. I'm sure that my next statement will raise a few eye brows but I
                      > have to say that Jet is SUPERIOR to the other OLDER lathes that I've
                      > owned. I would recomend though not buying a Asian import smaller
                      > than a 12". All lathes cam make things. Some are just more
                      > versitile.
                      > Walnut Charlie
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In atlas_craftsman@y..., "Manuel Sanchez" <mksanchez@p...> wrote:
                      > After much consideration I am leaning toward
                      > > the lathe sold by Harbor Freight 12x36 Does anyone have some
                      > feedback on
                      > > this lathe?
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE LIST:
                      > You do this yourself by sending a message to:
                      > atlas_craftsman-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Jon Elson
                      ... If you can find archives of the old rec.crafts.metalworking newsgroup. there are several people who described extreme measures needed to get a jet lathe
                      Message 10 of 13 , Dec 5, 2001
                        Mario L Vitale wrote:

                        > Charlie,
                        > You may have hit on something. While I don't own one, the complaints I've
                        > heard about the newer Asian lathes ...(no real low spindle speed, no
                        > reversing, the wimpy lead screw )... seem to be associated with the smaller
                        > lathes (10" and under) which seem to be intended for the home shop user. The
                        > larger ones do appear to be more a piece of industrial equipment, and are
                        > quite robust, and full featured, machines.....not to mention, affordable!
                        > I would agree with the concensus expressed here, that if you are looking
                        > at a 10" dia. (or under) capacity lathe you'd be much better off with a used
                        > American lathe. However, if you are looking at a 12" or larger lathe, I
                        > think one would have to look at the specific machines that are available to
                        > you to make a good decision.

                        If you can find archives of the old rec.crafts.metalworking newsgroup. there
                        are
                        several people who described extreme measures needed to get a jet lathe
                        working properly. these included things like a new chuck, recutting the
                        backplate, scraping in the carriage to get the crossslide at right angles
                        to the bed, aligning the tailstock to correct height, and on and on, including
                        several shipments of replacement motors, gears, etc. from Jet under
                        warranty. Now, of course, these are the horror stories you hear of,
                        the simple ones where someone moved it in, plugged it in and started
                        working, you don't hear so often.

                        Jon
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