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[atlas_craftsman] New member - Experience with my AA

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  • kdolan@earthlink.net
    I ve just discovered this group in the last couple days, wish it had been sooner! I,m new to machining of any kind, at least from a hands on standpoint. I
    Message 1 of 5 , Oct 31, 1999
      I've just discovered this group in the last couple days, wish it had
      been sooner!

      I,m new to machining of any kind, at least from a "hands on"
      standpoint. I spent many years as a purchasing man for a large
      manufacturer of high-speed turbomachinery (gas turbine engines up to
      about 15,000 H.P.) and did a lot of buying of machined parts to print
      so have learned quite a bit about machining over the years and visited
      shops literally all over the world. But I never got to make any chips!

      Well, I'm very close to 60 years now and have been kinda forced into
      early retirement by a stroke last February. The stroke left me with
      rather poor vision and substantially reduced fine motor control over my
      extremities. I have a large garage filled with woodworking equipment
      which I no longer want to play with (a 12" Radial Arm or Table saw can
      do a lot of very quick damage to errant fingers and metal machining
      seems sedate in comparison). I'm having a lot of fun playing with
      machining and finding it's also good therapy/rehab (at least that's
      what I keep telling the wife when she asks what I'm spending all this
      money on!) Now I have the time to actually "make some chips" so I
      purchased a "Craftsman" lathe at ebay knowing absolutely nothing about
      what Craftsman had made in the past. The lathe was described as a
      Model 109 and I assumed that it was an Atlas-made machine (bad
      assumption, I know, but we all live and learn.) I also purchased a
      Sherline milling machine which I am very satisfied with.

      A couple of anectdotes about the AA 109.21270 lathe I acquired:

      First I needed V-belts. A 3L belt worked just fine from the motor to
      the jack-shaft, but the 3L belts seemed too large for the sheaves from
      the jack-shaft to the lathe proper. I set out looking for something a
      bit narrower and found that if there is such a thing as a 2L series
      belt no one knew anything about it. Not Granger, MSC or any of my
      local industrial supply houses. I happened to have bought a Craftsman
      8" Drill Press some time back and, lo and behold, it uses a "K" series
      v-belt. Specifically a K-26. I finally learned that the "K" series is
      8MM across as opposed to 3/8" for a 3L and (if there is actually such a
      beast) 1/2" for a 2L.
      Anyway I stole the belt from my Drill Press and it worked out just fine
      on the motor-mount jack-shaft lash-up on my AA. By the way, The Sears
      Model for the Drill Press is 137.21908 and the part number of the k-26
      belt is 2572ARK260. Cost, about $3.00. I pass this along in the hope
      that it might assist someone else in the future.

      Second, I shortly found that my "new" AA lathe is pretty worn.
      Adjusting the carriage gibs to give smoothe but slightly tight travel
      resulted in severe binding at other positions of the carriage. The
      slightest tightness resulted in the double-nuts "jumping out" of
      engagement. Have to hold the lever down physically. Sufficent
      looseness results in the carriage "lifting" upon engagement or reversal
      of the lead screw. It was apparent that my bed/ways are worn perhaps
      beyond salvage, and even then I would need a new lead screw and/or
      double-nut lever. Probably all have found a reference to J.C. Bergman
      in Apache Springs, AZ, I found a reference to hime at
      www.lathes.co.uk, but it didn't really say what he could supply. I
      live in San Diego, CA and often get over to Phoenix, AZ, visiting
      relatives. The last time I was over there I popped down to Apache
      Junction (About 40-50 moles S/E of Phoenix) and met "John". Really
      nice guy and a lovely wife who was quite gracious and was willing to
      talk to a neophyte like me. I learned that John has chucks for the AA
      (1/2-20), newly manufactured lead screws that he apparently makes
      himself, and, if you supply him with your cross-slide carriage off your
      AA he will modify it to accept the engagement lever and the replaceable
      double-nuts from a n Atlas lathe. The good tyhing here is that the
      Atlas double-nuts are still available from Clausing for a few bucks, so
      if you ever again wear out the AA lever/double-nuts the can be simply
      replaced.

      All this may be "old hat" to most of you, but I submit it for what it
      is worth. I'm getting a lot of enjoyment out of my "tinkering" so far
      and hope that this contribution will be accepted in the spirit it was
      given. I would like especially to hear from anyone with
      experience/tips in restoring the AA lathe. I haven't really decided yet
      whether to continue spending money on mine or just "bite the bullet"
      and try to find a reasonably priced "real" Atlas. Of course, now that
      I know a little more, what I'd really like is a Myford. But, (sigh)....

      Kirk Dolan
    • J Tiers
      Interesting, I wrote to him last spring and Boegmann told me then that he had NO AA parts, only Atlas........... Sears craftsman lawnmower belt 71 33359 (is or
      Message 2 of 5 , Oct 31, 1999
        Interesting, I wrote to him last spring and Boegmann told me then that he
        had NO AA parts, only Atlas...........
        Sears craftsman lawnmower belt 71 33359 (is or was #137078) works quite well
        with the 109 / AA.
        I was not aware the the later AA had real halfnuts, Mine is a one-piece
        lever. Does Atlas now have these availiable? That seems to be what you said.
        I would advise moving on from the AA ASAP. Get a Sherline, Taig, etc. If
        you are serious about accuracy etc, you will not be happy unless you only
        machine brass, aluminum etc. Sorry, thems the facts.
        I have a 109 and a Logan 10" (guess which I got first!). No comparison, they
        are not even from the same planet. And My 109 is not worn out, as well as
        having several upgrades, calibrated feeds, etc.
        This is the time to extract yourself from the 109, they sell on ebay for up
        to $575, if you can stomach taking the money from somebody.
        Atlas, Logan, South Bend, (and of course Myford) can be had at varying
        varieties of fair prices.
        Jerry
        -----Original Message-----
        From: kdolan@... <kdolan@...>
        To: atlas_craftsman@egroups.com <atlas_craftsman@egroups.com>
        Date: Sunday, October 31, 1999 7:43 PM
        Subject: [atlas_craftsman] New member - Experience with my AA


        >I've just discovered this group in the last couple days, wish it had
        >been sooner!
        >
        >I,m new to machining of any kind, at least from a "hands on"
        >standpoint. I spent many years as a purchasing man for a large
        >manufacturer of high-speed turbomachinery (gas turbine engines up to
        >about 15,000 H.P.) and did a lot of buying of machined parts to print
        >so have learned quite a bit about machining over the years and visited
        >shops literally all over the world. But I never got to make any chips!
        >
        >Well, I'm very close to 60 years now and have been kinda forced into
        >early retirement by a stroke last February. The stroke left me with
        >rather poor vision and substantially reduced fine motor control over my
        >extremities. I have a large garage filled with woodworking equipment
        >which I no longer want to play with (a 12" Radial Arm or Table saw can
        >do a lot of very quick damage to errant fingers and metal machining
        >seems sedate in comparison). I'm having a lot of fun playing with
        >machining and finding it's also good therapy/rehab (at least that's
        >what I keep telling the wife when she asks what I'm spending all this
        >money on!) Now I have the time to actually "make some chips" so I
        >purchased a "Craftsman" lathe at ebay knowing absolutely nothing about
        >what Craftsman had made in the past. The lathe was described as a
        >Model 109 and I assumed that it was an Atlas-made machine (bad
        >assumption, I know, but we all live and learn.) I also purchased a
        >Sherline milling machine which I am very satisfied with.
        >
        >A couple of anectdotes about the AA 109.21270 lathe I acquired:
        >
        >First I needed V-belts. A 3L belt worked just fine from the motor to
        >the jack-shaft, but the 3L belts seemed too large for the sheaves from
        >the jack-shaft to the lathe proper. I set out looking for something a
        >bit narrower and found that if there is such a thing as a 2L series
        >belt no one knew anything about it. Not Granger, MSC or any of my
        >local industrial supply houses. I happened to have bought a Craftsman
        >8" Drill Press some time back and, lo and behold, it uses a "K" series
        >v-belt. Specifically a K-26. I finally learned that the "K" series is
        >8MM across as opposed to 3/8" for a 3L and (if there is actually such a
        >beast) 1/2" for a 2L.
        >Anyway I stole the belt from my Drill Press and it worked out just fine
        >on the motor-mount jack-shaft lash-up on my AA. By the way, The Sears
        >Model for the Drill Press is 137.21908 and the part number of the k-26
        >belt is 2572ARK260. Cost, about $3.00. I pass this along in the hope
        >that it might assist someone else in the future.
        >
        >Second, I shortly found that my "new" AA lathe is pretty worn.
        >Adjusting the carriage gibs to give smoothe but slightly tight travel
        >resulted in severe binding at other positions of the carriage. The
        >slightest tightness resulted in the double-nuts "jumping out" of
        >engagement. Have to hold the lever down physically. Sufficent
        >looseness results in the carriage "lifting" upon engagement or reversal
        >of the lead screw. It was apparent that my bed/ways are worn perhaps
        >beyond salvage, and even then I would need a new lead screw and/or
        >double-nut lever. Probably all have found a reference to J.C. Bergman
        >in Apache Springs, AZ, I found a reference to hime at
        >www.lathes.co.uk, but it didn't really say what he could supply. I
        >live in San Diego, CA and often get over to Phoenix, AZ, visiting
        >relatives. The last time I was over there I popped down to Apache
        >Junction (About 40-50 moles S/E of Phoenix) and met "John". Really
        >nice guy and a lovely wife who was quite gracious and was willing to
        >talk to a neophyte like me. I learned that John has chucks for the AA
        >(1/2-20), newly manufactured lead screws that he apparently makes
        >himself, and, if you supply him with your cross-slide carriage off your
        >AA he will modify it to accept the engagement lever and the replaceable
        >double-nuts from a n Atlas lathe. The good tyhing here is that the
        >Atlas double-nuts are still available from Clausing for a few bucks, so
        >if you ever again wear out the AA lever/double-nuts the can be simply
        >replaced.
        >
        >All this may be "old hat" to most of you, but I submit it for what it
        >is worth. I'm getting a lot of enjoyment out of my "tinkering" so far
        >and hope that this contribution will be accepted in the spirit it was
        >given. I would like especially to hear from anyone with
        >experience/tips in restoring the AA lathe. I haven't really decided yet
        >whether to continue spending money on mine or just "bite the bullet"
        >and try to find a reasonably priced "real" Atlas. Of course, now that
        >I know a little more, what I'd really like is a Myford. But, (sigh)....
        >
        >Kirk Dolan
        >
        >
        >------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >Looking for the latest consumer electronic gadgets or computer
        >equipment? eBay has thousands of audio equipment, computer
        >games & accessories. You never know what you might find at eBay!
        >http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1142
        >
        >
        >eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/atlas_craftsman
        >http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
        >
        >
        >
      • Marty Escarcega
        Welcome to the list. Not to worry about your 109. As long as you know its limitations it should do just fine. SO, JC Bogeman was able to help you a bit with
        Message 3 of 5 , Oct 31, 1999
          Welcome to the list. Not to worry about your 109. As long as you know its
          limitations it should do just fine. SO, JC Bogeman was able to help you a bit
          with your AA?

          Marty
          Keeper of the List


          > double-nut lever. Probably all have found a reference to J.C. Bergman
          > in Apache Springs, AZ, I found a reference to hime at
          > www.lathes.co.uk, but it didn't really say what he could supply. I
          > live in San Diego, CA and often get over to Phoenix, AZ, visiting
          > relatives. The last time I was over there I popped down to Apache
          > Junction (About 40-50 moles S/E of Phoenix) and met "John". Really
          > nice guy and a lovely wife who was quite gracious and was willing to
          > talk to a neophyte like me. I learned that John has chucks for the AA
          > (1/2-20), newly manufactured lead screws that he apparently makes
          > himself, and, if you supply him with your cross-slide carriage off your
          > AA he will modify it to accept the engagement lever and the replaceable
          > double-nuts from a n Atlas lathe. The good tyhing here is that the
          > Atlas double-nuts are still available from Clausing for a few bucks, so
          > if you ever again wear out the AA lever/double-nuts the can be simply
          > replaced.
          >
          > All this may be "old hat" to most of you, but I submit it for what it
          > is worth. I'm getting a lot of enjoyment out of my "tinkering" so far
          > and hope that this contribution will be accepted in the spirit it was
          > given. I would like especially to hear from anyone with
          > experience/tips in restoring the AA lathe. I haven't really decided yet
          > whether to continue spending money on mine or just "bite the bullet"
          > and try to find a reasonably priced "real" Atlas. Of course, now that
          > I know a little more, what I'd really like is a Myford. But, (sigh)....
          >
          > Kirk Dolan
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > Looking for the latest consumer electronic gadgets or computer
          > equipment? eBay has thousands of audio equipment, computer
          > games & accessories. You never know what you might find at eBay!
          > http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1142
          >
          >
          > eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/atlas_craftsman
          > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • kdolan@earthlink.net
          j tiers wrote: original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/atlas_craftsman/?start=11 97 ... that he ... quite well ... one-piece
          Message 4 of 5 , Oct 31, 1999
            "j tiers" <jtier-@...> wrote:
            original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/atlas_craftsman/?start=11
            97
            > Interesting, I wrote to him last spring and Boegmann told me then
            that he
            > had NO AA parts, only Atlas...........
            > Sears craftsman lawnmower belt 71 33359 (is or was #137078) works
            quite well
            > with the 109 / AA.
            > I was not aware the the later AA had real halfnuts, Mine is a
            one-piece
            > lever. Does Atlas now have these availiable? That seems to be what
            you said.
            > I would advise moving on from the AA ASAP. Get a Sherline, Taig,
            etc. If
            > you are serious about accuracy etc, you will not be happy unless you
            only
            > machine brass, aluminum etc. Sorry, thems the facts.
            > I have a 109 and a Logan 10" (guess which I got first!). No
            comparison, they
            > are not even from the same planet. And My 109 is not worn out, as
            well as
            > having several upgrades, calibrated feeds, etc.
            > This is the time to extract yourself from the 109, they sell on ebay
            for up
            > to $575, if you can stomach taking the money from somebody.
            > Atlas, Logan, South Bend, (and of course Myford) can be had at varying
            > varieties of fair prices.
            > Jerry


            I visited John about 3 weeks ago as I said and at that time he showed
            me an incomplete lead screw for the AA. He told me that there were at
            least two different lenghts used on different series of the 109. and he
            would need the actual length dimension before he could finish the lead
            screw. Don't recall exactly what he told me the price would be,
            something less than $100 I think.

            As to the "double-nut", well I'm not exactly sure of my terminology.
            My AA has a one-piece lever with two axially arranged "half-nuts", one
            up, one down, so that flipping the lever will engage/disengage the
            lead-screw. Not so good for replacement purposes, I think, as making a
            new one would be no simple matter and the whole lever would have to be
            replaced. What he told me was that he would add a bracket of some sort
            to the end of the apron of the carriage (adjacent to where the knob of
            the existing lever is) towards the tail-stock side and would replace
            the existing lever with the lever/assembly from an Atlas which uses
            double-nuts, of which he showed me examples. Examples of the
            double-nuts that is, not of the completed modification. I'm afraid I
            don't know just what the lash-up on an Atlas looks like, so if my
            explanation seemed to imply something different I hope the above will
            clear things up.

            Thanks for your comments re: keeping the AA. With the purchase price
            (about $375) addition of a new 1/2 HP motor, fabrication and parts for
            a new motor/jack-shaft mount, etc. I have about $550.00 in it now and
            am coming close to the decision that I oughtn't to put any more into
            it. I have seen real Atlas lathes available for not much more. I do
            want a screw-cutting lathe. Don't know that I'll use the screw cutting
            capabilities much, but I am going into this with the intention of
            learrning all I can about machining and it seems to me that the
            abilitie to cut threads with a lathe would be very important to my
            "education".

            Putting the AA back on ebay is probably the route I'll go, but I would
            feel considerably better about it if I did at least *some* more work to
            make it a useful machine. Kinda wish the guy that sold it to me had
            been a bit more forthcoming about its condition, but that's life in the
            big city!!

            Regards, and thanks for the feedback. Kirk Dolan
          • Ronald Thibault
            ... Among other things, as the spindle nose is threaded, you can machine new backplates to fit the spindle with a screw cutting Atlas or Southbend lathe. You
            Message 5 of 5 , Nov 1, 1999
              >Thanks for your comments re: keeping the AA. With the purchase price
              >(about $375) addition of a new 1/2 HP motor, fabrication and parts for
              >a new motor/jack-shaft mount, etc. I have about $550.00 in it now and
              >am coming close to the decision that I oughtn't to put any more into
              >it. I have seen real Atlas lathes available for not much more. I do
              >want a screw-cutting lathe. Don't know that I'll use the screw cutting
              >capabilities much, but I am going into this with the intention of
              >learrning all I can about machining and it seems to me that the
              >abilitie to cut threads with a lathe would be very important to my
              >"education".
              >

              Among other things, as the spindle nose is threaded, you can machine new
              backplates to fit the spindle with a screw cutting Atlas or Southbend lathe.
              You can also use the power feed capability to do those long cuts, and get a
              better finish at the same time. As you use the lathe you will find that the
              threading capability is more and more important. For instance I used the
              threading to cut a 5/8NC thread on the end of my second boring bar central
              bolt. A die would have cost $30! The nut I got at the hardware store.

              Ron Thibault
              North Augusta, SC USA

              Builder Miinie #2
              Captain R/C Combat Ship USS Arizona

              Note new Web Page Address:
              http://pages.prodigy.net/thibaultr/
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