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[atlas_craftsman] Re: New member intro

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  • J Tiers
    With some other lathes, such as Logan, the QC is driven by a change gear train. In these cases, a ratio converter gearset (see metric threading on
    Message 1 of 26 , Sep 13, 1999
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      With some other lathes, such as Logan, the QC is driven by a change gear
      train. In these cases, a ratio converter gearset (see metric threading on
      www.loganact.com ) may be able to be inserted to allow at least some metric
      thread pitches.
      I don't know, as my machines are both change gear types. However, this may
      be worth looking at.
      Jerry
      -----Original Message-----
      From: SLEYKIN@... <SLEYKIN@...>
      To: atlas_craftsman@egroups.com <atlas_craftsman@egroups.com>
      Date: Monday, September 13, 1999 1:09 PM
      Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: New member intro


      >In a message dated 09/13/1999 4:56:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
      >rscogin@... writes:
      >
      >> Glenn Neff wrote:
      >> >Welcome Bob :)
      >> >Is your Atlas QC or change gear style??
      >> It's a quick change. It's probably been asked a million times, but is
      there
      >> a way to get metric thread capability? I haven't investigated this yet
      but
      >> it sure would be handy as I do a lot of automotive/motorcycle projects
      and
      >> most of the bike threads are metric. Thanks,
      >> Bob Scogin
      >> Slidell,La. USA
      >>
      >I understand it is possible but I don't really understand how. I have been
      >playing with a program called change8 that calculates change gear sets and
      it
      >gives many possibilities. I have the change gear type lathes and don't
      know
      >much about the setups on QC lathes. Hopefully someone else can enlighten
      >both of us :) ??
      >
      >Glenn Neff
      >Medford, OR
      >
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    • Dean Brown
      The Manual of Lathe Operation and Machinists Tables , which is available from Clausing (P/N 6600, $23.82 in their 7/19/99 price list), has a table showing the
      Message 2 of 26 , Sep 15, 1999
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        The "Manual of Lathe Operation and Machinists Tables", which is
        available from Clausing (P/N 6600, $23.82 in their 7/19/99 price list),
        has a table showing the setup of the quadrant gears and QC to turn
        metric threads. The information given is for the 12" lathe, but I think
        it also applies to the 10". Clausing could probably answer this
        question. Metric threading on these lathes is not as easy as inch
        threading because the half-nuts cannot be disengaged until the threading
        operation is complete. This is because the threading dial is only
        accurate for inch threads. This means the lathe must be reversed to take
        it back to the starting position between successive cuts, until the
        thread is finished. This is all covered in the manual. If you have one
        of these lathes you should probably have a copy of this manual.

        The necessary gears and spacers are available from Clausing. However,
        before buying any, you may want to check the manual to see what you need
        for the particular threads of interest and purchase only those parts
        needed for the threads you want to make. You might also consider metric
        taps and dies as an alternative.

        Best regards,
        Dean Brown
        drbrown@...


        SLEYKIN@... wrote:
        >
        > In a message dated 09/13/1999 4:56:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
        > rscogin@... writes:
        >
        > > Glenn Neff wrote:
        > > >Welcome Bob :)
        > > >Is your Atlas QC or change gear style??
        > > It's a quick change. It's probably been asked a million times, but is there
        > > a way to get metric thread capability? I haven't investigated this yet but
        > > it sure would be handy as I do a lot of automotive/motorcycle projects and
        > > most of the bike threads are metric. Thanks,
        > > Bob Scogin
        > > Slidell,La. USA
        > >
        > I understand it is possible but I don't really understand how. I have been
        > playing with a program called change8 that calculates change gear sets and it
        > gives many possibilities. I have the change gear type lathes and don't know
        > much about the setups on QC lathes. Hopefully someone else can enlighten
        > both of us :) ??
        >
        > Glenn Neff
        > Medford, OR
        >
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > MyPoints-Free Rewards When You're Online.
        > Start with up to 150 Points for joining!
        > http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/805
        >
        > eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/atlas_craftsman
        > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
      • Buckshot
        I checked with Clausing via email. They do have the gears. They replied that they have the full set available, 8 different gears and 2 32 teeth gears for
        Message 3 of 26 , Sep 15, 1999
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          I checked with Clausing via email.

          They do have the gears. They replied that they have
          the full set available, 8 different gears and 2 32 teeth
          gears for $158.19 plus shipping. They will also sell
          the gears individually.

          They will send an Accessory Catalog and price list
          on request. They also have an original parts/
          instruction booklet available for $5.00.

          They can most easily be accessed through the email
          link on their web site. I sent them an inquiry in the
          afternoon on Sept. 12 and got an answer back on the
          morning of the 14th.

          Buckshot

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Dean Brown <drbrown@...>
          To: <atlas_craftsman@egroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 11:31 PM
          Subject: [atlas_craftsman] Re: New member intro


          > The "Manual of Lathe Operation and Machinists Tables", which is
          > available from Clausing (P/N 6600, $23.82 in their 7/19/99 price list),
          > has a table showing the setup of the quadrant gears and QC to turn
          > metric threads. The information given is for the 12" lathe, but I think
          > it also applies to the 10". Clausing could probably answer this
          > question. Metric threading on these lathes is not as easy as inch
          > threading because the half-nuts cannot be disengaged until the threading
          > operation is complete. This is because the threading dial is only
          > accurate for inch threads. This means the lathe must be reversed to take
          > it back to the starting position between successive cuts, until the
          > thread is finished. This is all covered in the manual. If you have one
          > of these lathes you should probably have a copy of this manual.
          >
          > The necessary gears and spacers are available from Clausing. However,
          > before buying any, you may want to check the manual to see what you need
          > for the particular threads of interest and purchase only those parts
          > needed for the threads you want to make. You might also consider metric
          > taps and dies as an alternative.
          >
          > Best regards,
          > Dean Brown
          > drbrown@...
          >
          >
          > SLEYKIN@... wrote:
          > >
          > > In a message dated 09/13/1999 4:56:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
          > > rscogin@... writes:
          > >
          > > > Glenn Neff wrote:
          > > > >Welcome Bob :)
          > > > >Is your Atlas QC or change gear style??
          > > > It's a quick change. It's probably been asked a million times, but is
          there
          > > > a way to get metric thread capability? I haven't investigated this
          yet but
          > > > it sure would be handy as I do a lot of automotive/motorcycle
          projects and
          > > > most of the bike threads are metric. Thanks,
          > > > Bob Scogin
          > > > Slidell,La. USA
          > > >
          > > I understand it is possible but I don't really understand how. I have
          been
          > > playing with a program called change8 that calculates change gear sets
          and it
          > > gives many possibilities. I have the change gear type lathes and don't
          know
          > > much about the setups on QC lathes. Hopefully someone else can
          enlighten
          > > both of us :) ??
          > >
          > > Glenn Neff
          > > Medford, OR
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > > MyPoints-Free Rewards When You're Online.
          > > Start with up to 150 Points for joining!
          > > http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/805
          > >
          > > eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/atlas_craftsman
          > > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
          >
          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >
          > eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/atlas_craftsman
          > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Wes Neveu
          Hi, names Wes, I m new to the list and the atlas following. Took metal shop in jr. high we had a Southbend 10, then auto machine at Mid Florida Tech during
          Message 4 of 26 , Feb 13, 2010
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            Hi, names Wes,
            I'm new to the list and the atlas following. Took metal shop in jr. high
            we had a Southbend 10, then auto machine at Mid Florida Tech during High
            school, Bridgeport mill, surface grinder, yada yada... and a sweet SB
            heavy 10.

            Now at a station in life where I can pursue my passion, I've been
            building hand-built steel bicycle frames for ten years now with files
            and hacksaw in my spare time. Now I wanna get mechanized!

            I'll be turning small parts but mainly mitering the tube ends with
            carbide tipped hole saws, held with arbors in the chuck, at various
            angles. Chrome moly tubing some hardened some not from 1mm down to .7mm
            wall thickness.

            >From what I've seen so far this is the place. Lots of good info and
            plenty of people in the know. Right now I'm trying to source a solid
            109 for less than an arm and a leg, maybe just a arm, I'll consider the
            leg if it comes with the milling attachment.

            Wes
          • Scott Henion
            ... Forget the 109, they are sloppy lathes and take a lot of fiddling. I had one and spent a year trying to get any accuracy out of it. Most have bent spindles
            Message 5 of 26 , Feb 13, 2010
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              On 2/13/2010 9:01 PM, Wes Neveu wrote:
              >
              > >From what I've seen so far this is the place. Lots of good info and
              > plenty of people in the know. Right now I'm trying to source a solid
              > 109 for less than an arm and a leg, maybe just a arm, I'll consider the
              > leg if it comes with the milling attachment.
              >
              >

              Forget the 109, they are sloppy lathes and take a lot of fiddling. I had
              one and spent a year trying to get any accuracy out of it. Most have
              bent spindles as they have a 1/2" spindle that cant handle the loads.

              Look at the 618 Atlas. About the same size but better and there are
              milling attachments available. Or any bigger atlas/craftsman.


              --

              ------------------------------------------
              | Scott G. Henion| shenion@... |
              | http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman-12x36/ |
              ------------------------------------------
            • jerdal@sbcglobal.net
              Stay far away from the 109, it will NOT do what you want. I suggest you get a machine in the 9 or 10 class. An Atlas, or a Logan, Southbend, Sheldon, etc.
              Message 6 of 26 , Feb 13, 2010
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                Stay far away from the 109, it will NOT do what you want.

                I suggest you get a machine in the 9" or 10" class. An Atlas, or a Logan,
                Southbend, Sheldon, etc.

                the 6" Atlas/Craftsman machine might do what you want, but I suspect you
                will be working around its size a good part of the time.

                I don't know where you are, but around St Louis, and points East up into
                Ohio, etc, a good 10" machine should cost anywhere from $400 (a super good
                deal if in decent condition) to around $800 -$1000 (good if it comes with
                lots of tooling and is in better than average condition.).

                JT


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Wes Neveu" <wneveu@...>
                To: <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 8:01 PM
                Subject: [atlas_craftsman] New member intro


                > I'll be turning small parts but mainly mitering the tube ends with
                > carbide tipped hole saws, held with arbors in the chuck, at various
                > angles. Chrome moly tubing some hardened some not from 1mm down to .7mm
                > wall thickness.
                >
                >>From what I've seen so far this is the place. Lots of good info and
                > plenty of people in the know. Right now I'm trying to source a solid
                > 109 for less than an arm and a leg, maybe just a arm, I'll consider the
                > leg if it comes with the milling attachment.
                >
                > Wes
              • JACK SIMS
                Welcome abord. That is where it all starts {:-) Jack Sims ... From: Wes Neveu To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 8:01 PM
                Message 7 of 26 , Feb 13, 2010
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                  Welcome abord.
                  That is where it all starts {:-)
                  Jack Sims
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Wes Neveu
                  To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 8:01 PM
                  Subject: [atlas_craftsman] New member intro



                  Hi, names Wes,
                  I'm new to the list and the atlas following. Took metal shop in jr. high
                  we had a Southbend 10, then auto machine at Mid Florida Tech during High
                  school, Bridgeport mill, surface grinder, yada yada... and a sweet SB
                  heavy 10.

                  Now at a station in life where I can pursue my passion, I've been
                  building hand-built steel bicycle frames for ten years now with files
                  and hacksaw in my spare time. Now I wanna get mechanized!

                  I'll be turning small parts but mainly mitering the tube ends with
                  carbide tipped hole saws, held with arbors in the chuck, at various
                  angles. Chrome moly tubing some hardened some not from 1mm down to .7mm
                  wall thickness.

                  >From what I've seen so far this is the place. Lots of good info and
                  plenty of people in the know. Right now I'm trying to source a solid
                  109 for less than an arm and a leg, maybe just a arm, I'll consider the
                  leg if it comes with the milling attachment.

                  Wes





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • redragonnet@yahoo.com
                  I bought my 618 years ago & it came with a milling attachment.  I sold the attachment on ebay and bought a mini mill.  As far as I m concerned the milling
                  Message 8 of 26 , Feb 13, 2010
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                    I bought my 618 years ago & it came with a milling attachment.  I sold the attachment on ebay and bought a mini mill.  As far as I'm concerned the milling attachment is worthless.  The mini mill is so much better and when it comes right down to it, I use the mill probably five times more than the larthe!   I'm also amazed that people are willing to pay close to $200 for the attachment on ebay!  That's half the cost of a mini!  Of course, it takes that much more to get a mini running properly.  Anyways the 618 is a sweet little lathe but if you have the room and a few more bucks a 9 or 10 inch lathe is much better.  Getting one with a quick change thread cutter is so much better than changing the gears!   I live in Central New York and I could find one within a year for around $400.  I go to all the auctions as well as estate and garage sales.  In the past 5 years I have seen (2) 618's go for $100 each.  One of them I bought for parts.  It
                    also came with a new 5 inch Bison 3 jaw chuck and a full set of change gears.  I got my $100 back selling what I didn't want on ebay.  Good hunting, Norm, Camillus,NY
                     



                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: Scott Henion <shenion@...>
                    To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sat, February 13, 2010 9:37:58 PM
                    Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] New member intro

                    On 2/13/2010 9:01 PM, Wes Neveu wrote:
                    >
                    > >From what I've seen so far this is the place. Lots of good info and
                    > plenty of people in the know. Right now I'm trying to source a solid
                    > 109 for less than an arm and a leg, maybe just a arm, I'll consider the
                    > leg if it comes with the milling attachment.
                    >


                    Forget the 109, they are sloppy lathes and take a lot of fiddling. I had
                    one and spent a year trying to get any accuracy out of it. Most have
                    bent spindles as they have a 1/2" spindle that cant handle the loads.

                    Look at the 618 Atlas. About the same size but better and there are
                    milling attachments available. Or any bigger atlas/craftsman.


                    --

                    ------------------------------------------
                    | Scott G. Henion| shenion@... |
                    | http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman-12x36/%c2%a0 |
                    ------------------------------------------



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                  • Wes Neveu
                    Below I quote the sage advice in which I adhere. I don t have the space for a 9x20, I need a benchtop lathe, a benchtop mill would suffice but the
                    Message 9 of 26 , Feb 13, 2010
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                      Below I quote the sage advice in which I adhere.
                      I don't have the space for a 9x20, I need a "benchtop" lathe,
                      a benchtop mill would suffice but the versatility of a lathe is much
                      more appealing and at the moment both are not fiscally feasible. Yet
                      both are in the shop plan.

                      I could buy an import and be over with it but I'm a journey person not
                      a destination person.

                      Allow me to start again. Is there an Atlas benchtop lathe which provides
                      reasonable accuracy for coping CrMo tubes at 200 RPM? Dedicated, does
                      nearly nothing else. A glimmer of hope would be nice, false hope sucks.

                      Wes



                      On Sat, 2010-02-13 at 20:55 -0600, jerdal@... wrote:
                      >
                      > Stay far away from the 109, it will NOT do what you want.
                      >
                      > I suggest you get a machine in the 9" or 10" class. An Atlas, or a
                      > Logan,
                      > Southbend, Sheldon, etc.
                      >

                      >On Sat, 2010-02-13 at 21:37 -0500, Scott Henion wrote:

                      >Forget the 109, they are sloppy lathes and take a lot of fiddling. I
                      >had one and spent a year trying to get any accuracy out of it. Most
                      >have bent spindles as they have a 1/2" spindle that cant handle the
                      >loads.
                    • jerdal@sbcglobal.net
                      if that is all you need to do, basically fishmouthing tubing, you don t WANT a lathe. You want a mill. Possibly a medium sized mill-drill . You can turn
                      Message 10 of 26 , Feb 13, 2010
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                        if that is all you need to do, basically 'fishmouthing" tubing, you don't
                        WANT a lathe. You want a mill. Possibly a medium sized "mill-drill".

                        You can turn small parts on a mill a lot better than you can mill bigger
                        parts on a lathe. Done both.

                        Actually, a suitable fixture would probably do it as well using a heavy-duty
                        portable drill. But the mill is more versatile.

                        Is that REALLY all you need?

                        JT

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Wes Neveu" <wneveu@...>
                        To: <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 12:07 AM
                        Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] New member intro

                        > Allow me to start again. Is there an Atlas benchtop lathe which provides
                        > reasonable accuracy for coping CrMo tubes at 200 RPM? Dedicated, does
                        > nearly nothing else. A glimmer of hope would be nice, false hope sucks.
                        >
                        > Wes
                      • Wes Neveu
                        I agree but.... ... The term fishmouthing is just I don t know, wrong. I could do that with aviation snips. I need more precision. Maybe it s just semantics.
                        Message 11 of 26 , Feb 14, 2010
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                          I agree but....

                          On Sun, 2010-02-14 at 00:38 -0600, jerdal@... wrote:
                          >
                          > if that is all you need to do, basically 'fishmouthing" tubing, you
                          > don't
                          > WANT a lathe.

                          The term "fishmouthing" is just I don't know, wrong.
                          I could do that with aviation snips. I need more precision.
                          Maybe it's just semantics.

                          > You want a mill. Possibly a medium sized "mill-drill".

                          Are benchtop mills beyond the scope of this forum?
                          A mill would be the bees knees yet the bench top models with a round
                          column don't seem to have the precision I need, give me dovetail.
                          My biggest issue with the BT mill is lack of down feed, I need Z.

                          A horizontal benchtop mill would be ideal.

                          >
                          > You can turn small parts on a mill a lot better than you can mill
                          > bigger
                          > parts on a lathe. Done both.

                          Milling not being the priority the lathe seems more versatile, because
                          it can turn better and meet the tube mitering needs as well.

                          >
                          > Actually, a suitable fixture would probably do it as well using a
                          > heavy-duty
                          > portable drill. But the mill is more versatile.

                          Ahh the caveat "suitable fixture" many have tried an equal amount have
                          failed. Joint jiggers, tube notchers all well and good for go-karts and
                          sand racers. Think of yourself descending a winding mountain pass at
                          60mph on a bicycle, nothing between you and the 300 foot drop but
                          inertia, quality engineering and construction.

                          > Is that REALLY all you need?

                          Man thats a loaded question, the more I have the more I can do for
                          myself, I'm not sure if thats a good thing or not.

                          What's up with the lack of benchtop horizontal mills (is this the
                          correct forum for that?)

                          I appreciate all the input it really makes me think through my
                          needs and wants.

                          Wes

                          >
                          > JT
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: "Wes Neveu" <wneveu@...>
                          > To: <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 12:07 AM
                          > Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] New member intro
                          >
                          > > Allow me to start again. Is there an Atlas benchtop lathe which
                          > provides
                          > > reasonable accuracy for coping CrMo tubes at 200 RPM? Dedicated,
                          > does
                          > > nearly nothing else. A glimmer of hope would be nice, false hope
                          > sucks.
                          > >
                          > > Wes
                        • Scott Henion
                          ... Benchtop and accuracy are almost mutually exclusive. A 6 lathe will probably be to sloppy or weak. The 109, definitely, one of the worst lathes ever made.
                          Message 12 of 26 , Feb 14, 2010
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                            On 2/14/2010 3:16 AM, Wes Neveu wrote:
                            >
                            >> You want a mill. Possibly a medium sized "mill-drill".
                            >>
                            > Are benchtop mills beyond the scope of this forum?
                            > A mill would be the bees knees yet the bench top models with a round
                            > column don't seem to have the precision I need, give me dovetail.
                            > My biggest issue with the BT mill is lack of down feed, I need Z.
                            >
                            > A horizontal benchtop mill would be ideal.
                            >
                            >

                            Benchtop and accuracy are almost mutually exclusive.

                            A 6" lathe will probably be to sloppy or weak. The 109, definitely, one
                            of the worst lathes ever made. The 618 might do it but probably not much
                            better than a dedicated fixture on a drillpress.

                            I have done milling on my 12x36. Does ok with a tiny milling area.
                            Anything smaller and I would think it would be even harder.

                            > Ahh the caveat "suitable fixture" many have tried an equal amount have
                            > failed. Joint jiggers, tube notchers all well and good for go-karts and
                            > sand racers. Think of yourself descending a winding mountain pass at
                            > 60mph on a bicycle, nothing between you and the 300 foot drop but
                            > inertia, quality engineering and construction.
                            >
                            >

                            I have seen users with the attachments on a good drill press and they
                            swear by them. I'd trust that over doing it on a lathe as it would be a
                            stronger setup.


                            --

                            ------------------------------------------
                            | Scott G. Henion| shenion@... |
                            | http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman-12x36/ |
                            ------------------------------------------
                          • Glenn N
                            You will destroy a 109 trying to cut tube with a hole saw. A 618 would be in the barely capable spot. 109 s only have a 1/2 spindle and lots of issues with
                            Message 13 of 26 , Feb 14, 2010
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                              You will destroy a 109 trying to cut tube with a hole saw. A 618 would be
                              in the barely capable spot. 109's only have a 1/2" spindle and lots of
                              issues with the carraige and compound. A harbor freight tubing notcher
                              would be more ridgid and you know those don't cut it on bike frame tube.
                              Glenn
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Wes Neveu" <wneveu@...>
                              To: <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 6:01 PM
                              Subject: [atlas_craftsman] New member intro


                              Hi, names Wes,
                              I'm new to the list and the atlas following. Took metal shop in jr. high
                              we had a Southbend 10, then auto machine at Mid Florida Tech during High
                              school, Bridgeport mill, surface grinder, yada yada... and a sweet SB
                              heavy 10.

                              Now at a station in life where I can pursue my passion, I've been
                              building hand-built steel bicycle frames for ten years now with files
                              and hacksaw in my spare time. Now I wanna get mechanized!

                              I'll be turning small parts but mainly mitering the tube ends with
                              carbide tipped hole saws, held with arbors in the chuck, at various
                              angles. Chrome moly tubing some hardened some not from 1mm down to .7mm
                              wall thickness.

                              >From what I've seen so far this is the place. Lots of good info and
                              plenty of people in the know. Right now I'm trying to source a solid
                              109 for less than an arm and a leg, maybe just a arm, I'll consider the
                              leg if it comes with the milling attachment.

                              Wes



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                              To see or edit your personal settings, view the photos, files or links
                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/

                              The Atlas-Craftsman Wiki is at
                              http://pico-systems.com/cgi-bin/Atlas-wiki/Atlas.cgi
                              Please submit things you think will be useful to Jon Elson at
                              mailto://elson@...! Groups Links
                            • jo barden
                              I have both a vertical and horizontal mill, the vertical I managed to buy new, it is shown
                              Message 14 of 26 , Feb 14, 2010
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                                I have both a vertical and horizontal mill, the vertical I managed to buy new, it is shown
                                http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axminster-ZX25M2-Vertical-Mill-Drill-364975.htm
                                cannot fault it, the horizontal is a Pallas http://www.lathes.co.uk/pallas/page6.html of about 70 years vintage, they both can do good work, I would however point out that just as for a lathe a mill needs to be of a certain "weight" to do work, the higher the weight the deeper the cut that can be safely made.

                                just my thoughts

                                Jon

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                              • Glenn N
                                I think the 618 will do what you are looking for. You will have to remove the topslide and make a fixture to hold the tube I think. Somethin like a burke
                                Message 15 of 26 , Feb 14, 2010
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                                  I think the 618 will do what you are looking for. You will have to remove
                                  the topslide and make a fixture to hold the tube I think. Somethin like a
                                  burke horizontal benchtop mill might do what you want too but no lathe.. I
                                  had a 618 and it really is a capable lathe for it's size. Be sure you get
                                  the timkin roller bearings and not the bronze bushed one.
                                  Good luck
                                  Glenn
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Wes Neveu" <wneveu@...>
                                  To: <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 10:07 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] New member intro


                                  Below I quote the sage advice in which I adhere.
                                  I don't have the space for a 9x20, I need a "benchtop" lathe,
                                  a benchtop mill would suffice but the versatility of a lathe is much
                                  more appealing and at the moment both are not fiscally feasible. Yet
                                  both are in the shop plan.

                                  I could buy an import and be over with it but I'm a journey person not
                                  a destination person.

                                  Allow me to start again. Is there an Atlas benchtop lathe which provides
                                  reasonable accuracy for coping CrMo tubes at 200 RPM? Dedicated, does
                                  nearly nothing else. A glimmer of hope would be nice, false hope sucks.

                                  Wes



                                  On Sat, 2010-02-13 at 20:55 -0600, jerdal@... wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Stay far away from the 109, it will NOT do what you want.
                                  >
                                  > I suggest you get a machine in the 9" or 10" class. An Atlas, or a
                                  > Logan,
                                  > Southbend, Sheldon, etc.
                                  >

                                  >On Sat, 2010-02-13 at 21:37 -0500, Scott Henion wrote:

                                  >Forget the 109, they are sloppy lathes and take a lot of fiddling. I
                                  >had one and spent a year trying to get any accuracy out of it. Most
                                  >have bent spindles as they have a 1/2" spindle that cant handle the
                                  >loads.




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                                • Eric Doswell
                                  Ok, I m more of a lurker but I have experience with this exact thing. I ve got a TH54 and I recently set it up to miter tubing to build bikes. I have a Phase 2
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Feb 14, 2010
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                                    Ok, I'm more of a lurker but I have experience with this exact
                                    thing. I've got a TH54 and I recently set it up to miter tubing to build
                                    bikes. I have a Phase 2 qctp, and I had someone in the machine shop at
                                    work (since I don't have a mill) make a block with a hole and pinch
                                    bolts to clamp tubes with. I then welded that to one of the tool
                                    holders, and that gives me enough height adjustment to center the tube
                                    and even make offset cuts If I want to. It works pretty good, but I have
                                    to be careful because of the slop in the machine. I've used it on .058"
                                    straight gauge up to True Temper OX Platinum .7/.5/.7 tubes. The
                                    Platinum alloy is sketchy, it's very hard and very thin. Next time I use
                                    it, I'll seriously consider doing it with a file.
                                    I floor space is an issue, Bringheli (www.bringheli.com) makes a main
                                    tube mitereing fixture that's designed to be used on a drill press. It's
                                    actually a veryslick setup and it runs about $275. You can even use to
                                    to miter chainstays if they are the straight variety you'd use on a road
                                    frame. Bringheli makes a lot of really good framebuilding specific
                                    tooling, and he also sells tubing from Columbus and Dedacciai. He's kind
                                    of a hoot to deal with too, he's and old Italian guy with the accent and
                                    everything. I've ordered tubing from him, and he just sends it with an
                                    invoice in the box and you send him a check.
                                    Hope this helps, E


                                    On 2/14/2010 4:26 AM, Glenn N wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I think the 618 will do what you are looking for. You will have to remove
                                    > the topslide and make a fixture to hold the tube I think. Somethin like a
                                    > burke horizontal benchtop mill might do what you want too but no
                                    > lathe.. I
                                    > had a 618 and it really is a capable lathe for it's size. Be sure you get
                                    > the timkin roller bearings and not the bronze bushed one.
                                    > Good luck
                                    > Glenn
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: "Wes Neveu" <wneveu@... <mailto:wneveu%40hot.rr.com>>
                                    > To: <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                                    > <mailto:atlas_craftsman%40yahoogroups.com>>
                                    > Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 10:07 PM
                                    > Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] New member intro
                                    >
                                    > Below I quote the sage advice in which I adhere.
                                    > I don't have the space for a 9x20, I need a "benchtop" lathe,
                                    > a benchtop mill would suffice but the versatility of a lathe is much
                                    > more appealing and at the moment both are not fiscally feasible. Yet
                                    > both are in the shop plan.
                                    >
                                    > I could buy an import and be over with it but I'm a journey person not
                                    > a destination person.
                                    >
                                    > Allow me to start again. Is there an Atlas benchtop lathe which provides
                                    > reasonable accuracy for coping CrMo tubes at 200 RPM? Dedicated, does
                                    > nearly nothing else. A glimmer of hope would be nice, false hope sucks.
                                    >
                                    > Wes
                                    >
                                    > On Sat, 2010-02-13 at 20:55 -0600, jerdal@...
                                    > <mailto:jerdal%40sbcglobal.net> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Stay far away from the 109, it will NOT do what you want.
                                    > >
                                    > > I suggest you get a machine in the 9" or 10" class. An Atlas, or a
                                    > > Logan,
                                    > > Southbend, Sheldon, etc.
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > >On Sat, 2010-02-13 at 21:37 -0500, Scott Henion wrote:
                                    >
                                    > >Forget the 109, they are sloppy lathes and take a lot of fiddling. I
                                    > >had one and spent a year trying to get any accuracy out of it. Most
                                    > >have bent spindles as they have a 1/2" spindle that cant handle the
                                    > >loads.
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------
                                    >
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                                    >
                                    >



                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • jerdal@sbcglobal.net
                                    ... From: Scott Henion To: Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 2:29 AM Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman]
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Feb 14, 2010
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                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: "Scott Henion" <shenion@...>
                                      To: <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 2:29 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] New member intro


                                      > Benchtop and accuracy are almost mutually exclusive.


                                      Very strong statement, almost certainly way off the mark.

                                      The machine determines the accuracy, not the mounting style. Hardinge,
                                      P&W, and others made very good bench lathes and bench mills. If you cannot
                                      be satisfied with their accuracy, you cannot be satsified at all.

                                      But that isn't the point.

                                      I certainly agree that a good drill press will be better than almost any
                                      lathe for the purpose, although the poster states that a round column mill,
                                      which is better than a drill press, is still not nearly accurate enough for
                                      HIM.

                                      JT
                                    • carvel webb
                                      The Atlas MFC benchtop mill is a nice machine , and capable of doing work quite remarkable for its size . It shares some aspects with the Atlas 618 lathe
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Feb 14, 2010
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                                        The Atlas MFC 'benchtop' mill is a nice machine , and capable of doing work
                                        quite remarkable for its size . It shares some aspects with the Atlas 618
                                        lathe e.g. the same spindle nose and thread on the later model . The two
                                        make a nice combination .

                                        It occasionally features here , but there is a dedicated group for the Atlas
                                        Mill and Shaper ,

                                        They also pop up from time to time on Epay

                                        Regards,

                                        Carvel



                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                                        [mailto:atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wes Neveu
                                        Sent: 14 February 2010 10:16 AM
                                        To: atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com
                                        Cc: jerdal@...
                                        Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] New member intro

                                        I agree but....

                                        On Sun, 2010-02-14 at 00:38 -0600, jerdal@... wrote:
                                        >
                                        > if that is all you need to do, basically 'fishmouthing" tubing, you
                                        > don't
                                        > WANT a lathe.

                                        The term "fishmouthing" is just I don't know, wrong.
                                        I could do that with aviation snips. I need more precision.
                                        Maybe it's just semantics.

                                        > You want a mill. Possibly a medium sized "mill-drill".

                                        Are benchtop mills beyond the scope of this forum?
                                        A mill would be the bees knees yet the bench top models with a round
                                        column don't seem to have the precision I need, give me dovetail.
                                        My biggest issue with the BT mill is lack of down feed, I need Z.

                                        A horizontal benchtop mill would be ideal.

                                        >
                                        > You can turn small parts on a mill a lot better than you can mill
                                        > bigger
                                        > parts on a lathe. Done both.

                                        Milling not being the priority the lathe seems more versatile, because
                                        it can turn better and meet the tube mitering needs as well.

                                        >
                                        > Actually, a suitable fixture would probably do it as well using a
                                        > heavy-duty
                                        > portable drill. But the mill is more versatile.

                                        Ahh the caveat "suitable fixture" many have tried an equal amount have
                                        failed. Joint jiggers, tube notchers all well and good for go-karts and
                                        sand racers. Think of yourself descending a winding mountain pass at
                                        60mph on a bicycle, nothing between you and the 300 foot drop but
                                        inertia, quality engineering and construction.

                                        > Is that REALLY all you need?

                                        Man thats a loaded question, the more I have the more I can do for
                                        myself, I'm not sure if thats a good thing or not.

                                        What's up with the lack of benchtop horizontal mills (is this the
                                        correct forum for that?)

                                        I appreciate all the input it really makes me think through my
                                        needs and wants.

                                        Wes

                                        >
                                        > JT
                                        >
                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > From: "Wes Neveu" <wneveu@...>
                                        > To: <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
                                        > Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 12:07 AM
                                        > Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] New member intro
                                        >
                                        > > Allow me to start again. Is there an Atlas benchtop lathe which
                                        > provides
                                        > > reasonable accuracy for coping CrMo tubes at 200 RPM? Dedicated,
                                        > does
                                        > > nearly nothing else. A glimmer of hope would be nice, false hope
                                        > sucks.
                                        > >
                                        > > Wes








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                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/

                                        The Atlas-Craftsman Wiki is at
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                                        Please submit things you think will be useful to Jon Elson at
                                        mailto://elson@...! Groups Links
                                      • Scott Henion
                                        ... Not in the budget he s talking about. --
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Feb 14, 2010
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                                          On 2/14/2010 10:59 AM, jerdal@... wrote:
                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > From: "Scott Henion" <shenion@...>
                                          > To: <atlas_craftsman@yahoogroups.com>
                                          > Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 2:29 AM
                                          > Subject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] New member intro
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >> Benchtop and accuracy are almost mutually exclusive.
                                          >>
                                          >
                                          > Very strong statement, almost certainly way off the mark.
                                          >

                                          Not in the budget he's talking about.

                                          --

                                          ------------------------------------------
                                          | Scott G. Henion| shenion@... |
                                          | http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman-12x36/ |
                                          ------------------------------------------
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