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Re: Atlantis 5 code update

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  • starstrike99
    ... through ... I ll be waiting to trim that extraneous list ;). ... maybe we ... reviewing ... code ... I certainly think of it as a branch of Atlantis ;).
    Message 1 of 8 , Jun 30, 2004
      > I'd be interested to hear what people think is extraneous stuff in
      > Atlantis. I've started compiling a list, but I'll finish looking
      through
      > the code and post my TODO list first.

      I'll be waiting to trim that extraneous list ;).

      > > In a way Bradley's game is a 'branch' of Atlantis 5 too, and
      maybe we
      > > could include some things back into the main code (after
      reviewing
      > > them during one game).
      >
      > I hope that happens. If not, I'll have another look at Bradley's
      code
      > (assuming that I can find the URL) and steal bits willy-nilly ;)

      I certainly think of it as a branch of Atlantis ;). Really, Arcadia
      started as a SMALL game of atlantis (as opposed to these games with
      huge numbers of players, like 20 or even 30!). Most of the
      developments are a result then of what I and others thought could be
      done to improve the game for the circumstances we're playing it under.

      The code is at http://arcadiagames.endofinternet.org/. Current
      filename is Five040517.zip, which as you can guess is about a month
      and a half out of date (though I do try and update it every month or
      so). You can always contact me directly to get the latest version.

      Everything has proved quite stable in Nylandor, though the battle
      system should be regarded as a work in progress - there are still
      times when it behaves a bit strangely. Part of the impetus of
      creating it was that battles were too predictable though, so I don't
      mind that too much.

      All the new magic spells can be pulled straight into the Atlantis
      code, except the battle spells (fog, darkness, binding, concealment)
      which rely on the battle system. Almost all the magic stuff is
      gamedef'd in the code, and should only need a little testing to
      ensure that everything works ok with the gamedef turned off (Nylandor
      obviously has only tested it with the gamedef on). Also, I gamedef'd
      most of the new spell descriptions, but may have overwritten a
      couple. Just need to read through what's produced without the gamedef.

      Hexside terrain can also be pulled in, but I think a minor recoding
      should be done before it is. It uses an array system which can be
      generalised somewhat, I've written some details of what I'd like it
      to look like somewhere. I stayed away from linked lists because, even
      though they are more flexible, they would have ended up taking a lot
      more space - and you can never have more than one river/bridge/road
      per hexside anyway, so part of the use of lists is lost.

      The river generation code is stable and works pretty well in 95% of
      cases, though I couldn't stop it occasionally generating loops at the
      end of rivers, despite trying for a while to do so.

      The experience coding (seperating studied "knowledge" from
      learnt "experience") seems stable and is mostly gamedef'd, but again
      needs a check done with the gamedef turned off.

      The editor allows almost anything to be done except (yet) unit flags
      and faction specifics (like unclaimed, attitudes etc), but those are
      fairly minor additions if you want to do them. I used the editor to
      create the Nylandor map from scratch and fix/create a few many-unit
      factions when replacing inactive players or in a couple of cases
      fixing the result of bugs. Much easier on players than doing a rerun.
      Parts of it require the hexside terrain stuff to be in the code, else
      it won't compile.

      The follow order is working (except for ships sailing on rivers
      unfortunately) but is exceedingly ugly. I wouldn't recommend keeping
      it in its current form.

      The statistics option should work fine in normal Atlantis except
      where it refers to mage energies. It's a neat feature some GMs might
      want to use / adapt. Basically it generates statistics on each
      faction each turn, and writes them out to a text file which I graph
      in excel every six months. It also posts a listing of faction
      strengths in the times every six months.

      Piotr has created a wiki document where we are discussing the changes
      that will be made for the next Arcadia game. Some of these include
      spell balance for the new spells etc., so it might be worth checking
      these out. There is no security on the site (anyone can post or
      delete things) so I won't put the URL here, but you can get it from
      Piotr or me if you want it. It will also be emailed to Nylandor
      players sometime (but again, ask before then and ye shall receive).

      Because I have less time now, I plan to code Arcadia IV based on the
      current Arcadia code rather than starting again on the AtlantisDev
      code - which means I won't be doing all of this in the near future.
      Arcadia IV changes are looking likely to mostly minor, involving
      rebalancing of some things, addition of dolphins and maybe whales as
      ocean resources, a COLLECT/UNCOLLECT/DONOR order, a bug fix to
      prevent monsters drowning if overloaded with spoils (Nylandor
      players: please don't take advantage of this!), possibly a few new
      ships, and six new spells are outlined so far, though I may only code
      some of them.

      > > It's debateable whether the lack of progress is due to
      > > stagnation of "design by committee" or actual lack of time of the
      > > developers. In the second case, drawing more manpower away from
      the
      > > main branch might not be a good idea.
      > It was partly that, but mostly just that I've been whisked off to
      > Toronto for my new job. I had maybe a week to prepare for my trip
      from
      > Perth to Melbourne, and then a couple of weeks later I'm here :)
      That
      > didn't leave a lot of time for digging through the code. But I've
      got a
      > bit more spare time now, so I'm getting into it while I can.

      In my case, I'm rather short on time. With running Arcadia mostly
      solo now (Piotr's around a bit and handles the server stuff, but I'm
      spending a bit of time on game maintenance) and general lack of time
      I haven't had the time or energy to convert my changes back into the
      main branch, let alone work on simplifying the overall structure. Nor
      the time to get CVS commit working.

      Bradley
    • Jan Rietema
      Another update... I fixed a bug I introduced yesterday in the ItemList code :(, but also and more importantly, I finally found the bug in TownGrowth that
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 1 4:19 AM
        Another update...

        I fixed a bug I introduced yesterday in the ItemList code :(, but also and more importantly, I finally found the bug in TownGrowth that caused settlements to constantly lose population!

        That means we can discover deeper-lying bugs in the new economy code. No really, it's probably quite raw still and some of the things have been disabled in the process of finding the cause for the above-mentioned bug. But I'm aiming at fixing it all in July :).

        Please get the new CVS version if you're working on anything.

        Jan
      • Pete Christie
        Hi Ant ... wrote: [...[ ... through ... I think you ll find it difficult to remove any monsters that are summoned or appear in lairs, but cut out the rest.
        Message 3 of 8 , Jul 7 1:35 AM
          Hi Ant

          --- In atlantisdev@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Briggs <abriggs@w...>
          wrote:
          [...[
          > I'd be interested to hear what people think is extraneous stuff in
          > Atlantis. I've started compiling a list, but I'll finish looking
          through
          > the code and post my TODO list first.

          I think you'll find it difficult to remove any monsters that are
          summoned or appear in lairs, but cut out the rest. Remove all except
          4 trade items. keep HORS, SWOR, CARM, LBOW, XBOW, IRON, WOOD, STON,
          GRAI, LIVE, HERB and SILV and try to remove all other items.

          The idea would be that once all these items get cut out, they only
          get added back in as additions to a config (text/ini) file.

          Once all that lot gets cut out successfully, the terrains and lairs
          could do with a trim and try to get rid of hard coded races to
          terrains, so that the races can be changed without having to edit the
          terrains and and avoid having to edit races in order to change
          terrains (iirc).


          > > So the
          > > sooner someone goes ahead who has a firm vision, the better. I
          > > believe that branching isn't such a bad idea, if the vision for
          the
          > > various branches are sufficiently different and deserving in
          their
          > > own right.
          >
          > The funny thing is that I'm doing this to reduce forking further
          down
          > the track ;) As far as vision, well I've got that - it's just
          whether I
          > can convince other people that it's a good idea.

          It IS a good idea.


          > The best way to do that is to 'shut up and show you the code' ;)

          Thats also a good idea :)

          Pete
        • dmitri6666
          ... (months?), may I surprise you with an update to the Atlantis 5 CVS, including (hopefully) all of the bug fixes that Bradley s posted since he started
          Message 4 of 8 , Jul 7 9:10 AM
            > Hi all,
            >
            > after my complete absence from this list for a number of weeks
            (months?), may I surprise you with an update to the Atlantis 5 CVS,
            including (hopefully) all of the bug fixes that Bradley's posted since
            he started working with the version 5 source. Kudos to him for
            discovering these problems!
            >
            > The list includes:

            Another possible option to include can be
            the one preventing shaft creation in starting cities
            as it gives players possibility to block shafts there
            without worrying to be killed.

            Dmitri.
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