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Re: [Artificial Intelligence Group] Re: The World's First Singularity Conference - Sept 12-14

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  • Sebastian David
    what is trans-humanism? ... From: Bob Mottram To: artificialintelligencegroup@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 3:04 PM Subject: [Artificial
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 4, 2003
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      what is trans-humanism?
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Bob Mottram
      To: artificialintelligencegroup@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 3:04 PM
      Subject: [Artificial Intelligence Group] Re: The World's First Singularity Conference - Sept 12-14




      Does anyone actually believe in trans-humanism? It seems very
      unscientific to me.

      - Bob


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    • W. K. Mahler
      what is trans humanism? i don t know so would you fill me in please/ william ... From: TyranosaurusBob To: artificialintelligencegroup@yahoogroups.com Sent:
      Message 2 of 9 , Sep 4, 2003
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        what is trans humanism? i don't know so would you fill me in please/

        william
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: TyranosaurusBob
        To: artificialintelligencegroup@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 2:29 PM
        Subject: Re: [Artificial Intelligence Group] Re: The World's First Singularity Conference - Sept 12-14


        Bob,
        I'm with you...just a bit confused.

        Bruce

        Bob Mottram <fuzzgun@...> wrote:


        Does anyone actually believe in trans-humanism? It seems very
        unscientific to me.

        - Bob


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      • Alan Grimes
        ... Transhumanism is not a system of beleifs. It is a philosophy which a number of people, including myself, have chosen to follow. It advocates the use of
        Message 3 of 9 , Sep 4, 2003
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          Bob Mottram wrote:
          > Does anyone actually believe in trans-humanism? It seems very
          > unscientific to me.

          Transhumanism is not a system of beleifs.
          It is a philosophy which a number of people, including myself, have
          chosen to follow. It advocates the use of advanced technologies as a
          means of self-transformation.

          There are a number of variations of the philosophy. I have chosen one of
          the most conservitive.

          --
          "Nobody wants to say how this works. Mabye nobody knows."
          - The man page for XF86Config, One of the key config files
          behind
          the software driving the overwhealming majority of Linux desktops.

          http://users.rcn.com/alangrimes/
        • Tallat
          Why? Surely if there are problems within the human body there will be similar problems of a different kind in another half/half body? How would you establish
          Message 4 of 9 , Sep 5, 2003
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            Why? Surely if there are problems within the human
            body there will be similar problems of a different
            kind in another half/half body? How would you
            establish power control within the body? What
            controls would you put in place and how? and what are
            these criterias?

            --- Alan Grimes <alangrimes@...> wrote:
            > Cocoa wrote:
            > > First question which came to mind when reading
            > their declaration ie
            > > "We seek personal growth beyond our current
            > biological limitations" are
            > > they willing to be half robot/half human in some
            > way in the future?
            >
            > The simple answer to that is "Yes".
            >
            > However, there is considerable diversity in the
            > community... The answer
            > above only applies to the most conservative
            > school...
            >
            > I am not at all a proponent of the more radical
            > school but you should
            > find a great deal of material on "brain uploading"
            > including articles,
            > papers, websites, and a considerable number of
            > Sci-Fi novels.
            >
            > --
            > "Nobody wants to say how this works. Mabye nobody
            > knows."
            > - The man page for XF86Config, One of the
            > key config files
            > behind
            > the software driving the overwhealming majority of
            > Linux desktops.
            >
            > http://users.rcn.com/alangrimes/
            >


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          • Alan Grimes
            ... The simple answer to that is Yes . However, there is considerable diversity in the community... The answer above only applies to the most conservative
            Message 5 of 9 , Sep 5, 2003
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              Cocoa wrote:
              > First question which came to mind when reading their declaration ie
              > "We seek personal growth beyond our current biological limitations" are
              > they willing to be half robot/half human in some way in the future?

              The simple answer to that is "Yes".

              However, there is considerable diversity in the community... The answer
              above only applies to the most conservative school...

              I am not at all a proponent of the more radical school but you should
              find a great deal of material on "brain uploading" including articles,
              papers, websites, and a considerable number of Sci-Fi novels.

              --
              "Nobody wants to say how this works. Mabye nobody knows."
              - The man page for XF86Config, One of the key config files
              behind
              the software driving the overwhealming majority of Linux desktops.

              http://users.rcn.com/alangrimes/
            • Alan Grimes
              ... My own favorite answer is personal fiat, others will say something along the lines of manafest destiny. Others will claim necessity, in that the human body
              Message 6 of 9 , Sep 5, 2003
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                Tallat wrote:

                > Why?

                My own favorite answer is personal fiat, others will say something along
                the lines of manafest destiny. Others will claim necessity, in that the
                human body is too frail, too slow, or lacking some other charactoristic
                required for self defence in a post-singularity environment. (where
                vastly superhuman AIs and nanotech are the lord masters of the
                universe...)

                > Surely if there are problems within the human body there will be
                > similar problems of a different kind in another half/half body?

                Indeed...
                The point is that you can take your pick and keep adjusting things
                untill you achieve your own version of optimal...

                > How would you establish power control within the body?
                > What controls would you put in place and how? and what are
                > these criterias?

                These questions aren't really clear...

                --
                "Nobody wants to say how this works. Mabye nobody knows."
                - The man page for XF86Config, One of the key config files
                behind
                the software driving the overwhealming majority of Linux desktops.

                http://users.rcn.com/alangrimes/
              • Tallat
                Who would control the body the human mind or the electronic? What criteria would be used if there is an internal power struggle? Surely if it is the
                Message 7 of 9 , Sep 6, 2003
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                  Who would control the body the human mind or the
                  electronic? What criteria would be used if there is
                  an internal power struggle? Surely if it is the
                  electronic mind how can it then be a sort of human?

                  supertech AI's and nanotechs - What about emotions,
                  feelings? Surely these wuold be inputted into them and
                  would not come naturally unlike in humans? Sounds
                  cold...

                  --- Alan Grimes <alangrimes@...> wrote:
                  > Tallat wrote:
                  >
                  > > Why?
                  >
                  > My own favorite answer is personal fiat, others will
                  > say something along
                  > the lines of manafest destiny. Others will claim
                  > necessity, in that the
                  > human body is too frail, too slow, or lacking some
                  > other charactoristic
                  > required for self defence in a post-singularity
                  > environment. (where
                  > vastly superhuman AIs and nanotech are the lord
                  > masters of the
                  > universe...)
                  >
                  > > Surely if there are problems within the human body
                  > there will be
                  > > similar problems of a different kind in another
                  > half/half body?
                  >
                  > Indeed...
                  > The point is that you can take your pick and keep
                  > adjusting things
                  > untill you achieve your own version of optimal...
                  >
                  > > How would you establish power control within the
                  > body?
                  > > What controls would you put in place and how? and
                  > what are
                  > > these criterias?
                  >
                  > These questions aren't really clear...
                  >
                  > --
                  > "Nobody wants to say how this works. Mabye nobody
                  > knows."
                  > - The man page for XF86Config, One of the
                  > key config files
                  > behind
                  > the software driving the overwhealming majority of
                  > Linux desktops.
                  >
                  > http://users.rcn.com/alangrimes/
                  >


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                • Alan Grimes
                  ... I agree with most points here... The uploaders are nuts. ... You re thinking Asimo. Think Cmdr. Data The major problem with head freezing is that the
                  Message 8 of 9 , Sep 6, 2003
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                    Bob Mottram wrote:
                    > >From what I understand of trans-humanism it sound more like a
                    > religeon than a science - full of irrational beliefs and
                    > unsubstantiated claims.
                    <<<


                    > Take one of the main trans-humanist claims, called "uploading"
                    > (or "downloading" depending upon which way you look at it). Here you
                    > are supposed to be able to "upload" the contents of your brain into a
                    > computer and become in essence a digital being. Where is the actual
                    > evidence that this can be done? Where are the researchers and the
                    > papers? Even if it were demonstrated possible would it be
                    > desirable? I imagine that life stuck inside a computer would be
                    > pretty dull, and what if the computer crashed, got rebooted or
                    > suffered from the dreaded bad clusters? The trans-humanists clearly
                    > havn't thought this one through.

                    I agree with most points here...
                    The uploaders are nuts.

                    > A related trans-humanism is the old "freeze your head" syndrome.
                    > Almost unbelievably some seemingly rational people choose to have
                    > their heads frozen after death in the hope that they may be "revived"
                    > at some later stage. I must admit that the cryogenics business is a
                    > bit more scientific than "uploading", but not by much. Even if the
                    > severed head of a corpse could be revived by some as yet unimagined
                    > technology what sort of quality of life would it be likely to have?
                    > Even if they could give you a robotic body you would surely end up
                    > living the most appalingly degraded existance imagnable.

                    You're thinking Asimo.
                    Think Cmdr. Data

                    The major problem with head freezing is that the central nervous system
                    extends all the way down into the lumbar region of your spine...
                    Re-creating a spinal chord and making it interface with your brain is
                    not at all easy...

                    --
                    "Nobody wants to say how this works. Mabye nobody knows."
                    - The man page for XF86Config, One of the key config files
                    behind
                    the software driving the overwhealming majority of Linux desktops.

                    http://users.rcn.com/alangrimes/
                  • Alan Grimes
                    ... Ideally, there wouldn t be any destinction. One of the most widely advocated ideas is to upload the human mind and then run it on the robot as its mind...
                    Message 9 of 9 , Sep 6, 2003
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                      Tallat wrote:
                      > Who would control the body the human mind or the
                      > electronic? What criteria would be used if there is
                      > an internal power struggle? Surely if it is the
                      > electronic mind how can it then be a sort of human?

                      Ideally, there wouldn't be any destinction. One of the most widely
                      advocated ideas is to upload the human mind and then run it on the robot
                      as its mind...

                      My own idea is to gradually upgrade the components of your brain as new
                      technologies become available.

                      The cyborg's mind would be tied into some central control unit as the
                      human's is tied into the brain steam...

                      The issue of control never arrises because there shouldn't be any
                      destinction between the parts, rather the entire mind is a synthesis of
                      old and new components...

                      > supertech AI's and nanotechs - What about emotions,
                      > feelings? Surely these wuold be inputted into them and
                      > would not come naturally unlike in humans? Sounds
                      > cold...

                      Those are design decisions... There isn't anything to suggest that
                      artificial emotions are impossible.

                      --
                      "Nobody wants to say how this works. Mabye nobody knows."
                      - The man page for XF86Config, One of the key config files
                      behind
                      the software driving the overwhealming majority of Linux desktops.

                      http://users.rcn.com/alangrimes/
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