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Re: [arthurian_comixlist] Madame Xanadu

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  • RODNEYFFC@AOL.COM
    Guys, So what is the earliest Arthurian reference in a story with Madame Xanadu? She debuted in Doorway Into Nightmare #1 but is there any Arthurian
    Message 1 of 9 , May 22 6:44 AM
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      Guys,

      So what is the earliest Arthurian reference in a story with Madame Xanadu?
      She debuted in "Doorway Into Nightmare" #1 but is there any Arthurian
      content or reference?

      Rodney Parrish


      In a message dated 5/21/2010 10:35:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
      popcultandmiddleages.moderator@... writes:

      Hi, Alan. Thanks for your reply. My apologies for misquoting the article.
      It
      has been a long week.

      Keep up the great work,
      Michael


      On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 4:17 PM, Alan Stewart <merrygawain@...>
      wrote:

      >
      >
      > Michael,
      >
      > I went back and looked at the CBR article, and the statement you quoted
      > wasn't actually said by Matt Wagner, but rather by the interviewer,
      Jeffrey
      > Renaud. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that my research was
      more
      > thorough than Mr. Renaud's. But if anyone can find an earlier Arthurian
      > reference than that Spectre story, I'll be happy to revise my site
      > accordingly.
      >
      > Alan
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: mtorreg2001
      <michael.a.torregrossa@...<michael.a.torregrossa%40gmail.com>
      > >
      > To:
      arthurian_comixlist@yahoogroups.com<arthurian_comixlist%40yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Thu, May 20, 2010 10:46:31 PM
      > Subject: [arthurian_comixlist] Madame Xanadu
      >
      >
      >
      > Hi.
      >
      > I've been wondering about Madame Xanadu's Arthurian connections. Matt
      > Wagner's new series presents her as the Lady of the Lake, and Alan says
      on
      > his site that this originates with a Spectre story from 1993. However,
      in an
      > interview on Comic Book Resources (
      > http://www.comicbookresources.com/?id=15960&page=article), Wagner
      states:
      > "Making her debut in "Doorway to Nightmare" #1 in 1978, Madame Xanadu was
      > originally introduced as a reincarnation of the Lady of the Lake from
      > Arthurian legend. Over the years, the character settled into a role as
      > fortune-teller and resident occult advisor to the DCU. "
      >
      > Any thoughts?
      >
      > Thanks,
      > Michael
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >



      --
      Michael A. Torregrossa, Listserv Moderator/ Blog Editor
      The Virtual Society for the Study of Popular Culture and the Middle Ages
      Michael A Torregrossa and Carl James Grindley, Co-Founders
      http://PopularCultureandtheMiddleAges.org
      http://PopularCultureandtheMiddleAges.blogspot.com/
      The Arthur of the Comics Project Blog:
      http://arthur-of-thecomics-project.blogspot.com/


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      ------------------------------------

      Yahoo! Groups Links






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Alan Stewart
      No, not in that or in subsequent issues of that series. Her origins and background are completely mysterious, a la similar characters like the Phantom
      Message 2 of 9 , May 23 8:21 AM
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        No, not in that or in subsequent issues of that series. Her origins and background are completely mysterious, a la similar characters like the Phantom Stranger.

        Alan





        ________________________________
        From: "RODNEYFFC@..." <RODNEYFFC@...>
        To: arthurian_comixlist@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sat, May 22, 2010 8:44:23 AM
        Subject: Re: [arthurian_comixlist] Madame Xanadu


        Guys,

        So what is the earliest Arthurian reference in a story with Madame Xanadu?
        She debuted in "Doorway Into Nightmare" #1 but is there any Arthurian
        content or reference?

        Rodney Parrish


        In a message dated 5/21/2010 10:35:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
        popcultandmiddleages.moderator@... writes:

        Hi, Alan. Thanks for your reply. My apologies for misquoting the article.
        It
        has been a long week.

        Keep up the great work,
        Michael

        On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 4:17 PM, Alan Stewart <merrygawain@...>
        wrote:

        >
        >
        > Michael,
        >
        > I went back and looked at the CBR article, and the statement you quoted
        > wasn't actually said by Matt Wagner, but rather by the interviewer,
        Jeffrey
        > Renaud. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that my research was
        more
        > thorough than Mr. Renaud's. But if anyone can find an earlier Arthurian
        > reference than that Spectre story, I'll be happy to revise my site
        > accordingly.
        >
        > Alan
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: mtorreg2001
        <michael.a.torregrossa@...<michael.a.torregrossa%40gmail.com>
        > >
        > To:
        arthurian_comixlist@yahoogroups.com<arthurian_comixlist%40yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Thu, May 20, 2010 10:46:31 PM
        > Subject: [arthurian_comixlist] Madame Xanadu
        >
        >
        >
        > Hi.
        >
        > I've been wondering about Madame Xanadu's Arthurian connections. Matt
        > Wagner's new series presents her as the Lady of the Lake, and Alan says
        on
        > his site that this originates with a Spectre story from 1993. However,
        in an
        > interview on Comic Book Resources (
        > http://www.comicbookresources.com/?id=15960&page=article), Wagner
        states:
        > "Making her debut in "Doorway to Nightmare" #1 in 1978, Madame Xanadu was
        > originally introduced as a reincarnation of the Lady of the Lake from
        > Arthurian legend. Over the years, the character settled into a role as
        > fortune-teller and resident occult advisor to the DCU. "
        >
        > Any thoughts?
        >
        > Thanks,
        > Michael
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >

        --
        Michael A. Torregrossa, Listserv Moderator/ Blog Editor
        The Virtual Society for the Study of Popular Culture and the Middle Ages
        Michael A Torregrossa and Carl James Grindley, Co-Founders
        http://PopularCultureandtheMiddleAges.org
        http://PopularCultureandtheMiddleAges.blogspot.com/
        The Arthur of the Comics Project Blog:
        http://arthur-of-thecomics-project.blogspot.com/

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        ------------------------------------

        Yahoo! Groups Links

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jason Tondro
        I suppose it is that very mysteriousness that invites writers to fiddle with her background and meaning, imprinting whatever mythology or origin they want
        Message 3 of 9 , May 23 9:08 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          I suppose it is that very mysteriousness that invites writers to fiddle with
          her background and "meaning," imprinting whatever mythology or origin they
          want onto her. I'm fairly surprised there's no comic which reveals that
          Phantom Stranger is actually Merlin or, perhaps more likely considering
          comics, that the Phantom Stranger went to Arthurian England and adopted the
          identity of Merlin while he advised the King there.

          On Sun, May 23, 2010 at 8:21 AM, Alan Stewart <merrygawain@...> wrote:

          >
          >
          > No, not in that or in subsequent issues of that series. Her origins and
          > background are completely mysterious, a la similar characters like the
          > Phantom Stranger.
          >
          > Alan
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: "RODNEYFFC@... <RODNEYFFC%40AOL.COM>" <RODNEYFFC@...<RODNEYFFC%40AOL.COM>
          > >
          >
          > To: arthurian_comixlist@yahoogroups.com<arthurian_comixlist%40yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Sat, May 22, 2010 8:44:23 AM
          > Subject: Re: [arthurian_comixlist] Madame Xanadu
          >
          >
          > Guys,
          >
          > So what is the earliest Arthurian reference in a story with Madame Xanadu?
          > She debuted in "Doorway Into Nightmare" #1 but is there any Arthurian
          > content or reference?
          >
          > Rodney Parrish
          >
          > In a message dated 5/21/2010 10:35:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
          > popcultandmiddleages.moderator@...<popcultandmiddleages.moderator%40gmail.com>writes:
          >
          > Hi, Alan. Thanks for your reply. My apologies for misquoting the article.
          > It
          > has been a long week.
          >
          > Keep up the great work,
          > Michael
          >
          > On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 4:17 PM, Alan Stewart <merrygawain@...<merrygawain%40yahoo.com>>
          >
          > wrote:
          >
          > >
          > >
          > > Michael,
          > >
          > > I went back and looked at the CBR article, and the statement you quoted
          > > wasn't actually said by Matt Wagner, but rather by the interviewer,
          > Jeffrey
          > > Renaud. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that my research was
          > more
          > > thorough than Mr. Renaud's. But if anyone can find an earlier Arthurian
          > > reference than that Spectre story, I'll be happy to revise my site
          > > accordingly.
          > >
          > > Alan
          > >
          > > ________________________________
          > > From: mtorreg2001
          > <michael.a.torregrossa@... <michael.a.torregrossa%40gmail.com>
          > <michael.a.torregrossa%40gmail.com>
          > > >
          > > To:
          > arthurian_comixlist@yahoogroups.com<arthurian_comixlist%40yahoogroups.com>
          > <arthurian_comixlist%40yahoogroups.com>
          > > Sent: Thu, May 20, 2010 10:46:31 PM
          > > Subject: [arthurian_comixlist] Madame Xanadu
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Hi.
          > >
          > > I've been wondering about Madame Xanadu's Arthurian connections. Matt
          > > Wagner's new series presents her as the Lady of the Lake, and Alan says
          > on
          > > his site that this originates with a Spectre story from 1993. However,
          > in an
          > > interview on Comic Book Resources (
          > > http://www.comicbookresources.com/?id=15960&page=article), Wagner
          > states:
          > > "Making her debut in "Doorway to Nightmare" #1 in 1978, Madame Xanadu was
          > > originally introduced as a reincarnation of the Lady of the Lake from
          > > Arthurian legend. Over the years, the character settled into a role as
          > > fortune-teller and resident occult advisor to the DCU. "
          > >
          > > Any thoughts?
          > >
          > > Thanks,
          > > Michael
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          > --
          > Michael A. Torregrossa, Listserv Moderator/ Blog Editor
          > The Virtual Society for the Study of Popular Culture and the Middle Ages
          > Michael A Torregrossa and Carl James Grindley, Co-Founders
          > http://PopularCultureandtheMiddleAges.org
          > http://PopularCultureandtheMiddleAges.blogspot.com/
          > The Arthur of the Comics Project Blog:
          > http://arthur-of-thecomics-project.blogspot.com/
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >



          --
          doctorcomics.blogspot.com


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • scarfman@iglou.com
          ... If only as a part of the origin of the DC character The Demon, Merlin is pretty much established as a separate character. Which doesn t rule out a story
          Message 4 of 9 , May 24 7:15 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            On Sun, May 23, 2010 12:08, Jason Tondro wrote:
            > I suppose it is that very mysteriousness that invites writers to fiddle
            > with her background and "meaning," imprinting whatever mythology or origin
            > they want onto her. I'm fairly surprised there's no comic which reveals
            > that Phantom Stranger is actually Merlin or, perhaps more likely
            > considering comics, that the Phantom Stranger went to Arthurian England
            > and adopted the identity of Merlin while he advised the King there.

            If only as a part of the origin of the DC character The Demon, Merlin is
            pretty much established as a separate character. Which doesn't rule out a
            story with the Stranger assuming Merlin's identity for a time.

            As for the Stranger's origin: DC did an issue of Secret Origins for him in
            the 80s. Four different writers wrote four different stories.


            Paul Gadzikowski, scarfman@...
            http://arthurkingoftimeandspace.com/0001.htm New cartoons daily
            http://arthurkingoftimeandspace.com/3faces/aaaa.htm Fanfiction cartoons

            "Oh, not another mastodon!"
          • Jason Tondro
            Oh sure. DC had three different Merlins running around, last I checked. And I know there have been origins for the Stranger. I was just generally speculating
            Message 5 of 9 , May 24 10:15 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              Oh sure. DC had three different Merlins running around, last I checked. And
              I know there have been origins for the Stranger. I was just generally
              speculating on the temptation to graft characters with mysterious and
              undefined origins onto well-known tropes like Arthur.

              It reminds me of that throw-away sequence in a page of Forever People when
              the team go back to Arthurian England and more or less accidentally cause
              Arthur to pull the sword out of the stone. I don't think Kirby cared a whole
              lot for continuity, at least not if it got in the way of an amusing gag.

              On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 7:15 AM, <scarfman@...> wrote:

              >
              >
              > On Sun, May 23, 2010 12:08, Jason Tondro wrote:
              > > I suppose it is that very mysteriousness that invites writers to fiddle
              > > with her background and "meaning," imprinting whatever mythology or
              > origin
              > > they want onto her. I'm fairly surprised there's no comic which reveals
              > > that Phantom Stranger is actually Merlin or, perhaps more likely
              > > considering comics, that the Phantom Stranger went to Arthurian England
              > > and adopted the identity of Merlin while he advised the King there.
              >
              > If only as a part of the origin of the DC character The Demon, Merlin is
              > pretty much established as a separate character. Which doesn't rule out a
              > story with the Stranger assuming Merlin's identity for a time.
              >
              > As for the Stranger's origin: DC did an issue of Secret Origins for him in
              > the 80s. Four different writers wrote four different stories.
              >
              > Paul Gadzikowski, scarfman@... <scarfman%40iglou.com>
              > http://arthurkingoftimeandspace.com/0001.htm New cartoons daily
              > http://arthurkingoftimeandspace.com/3faces/aaaa.htm Fanfiction cartoons
              >
              > "Oh, not another mastodon!"
              >
              >
              >



              --
              doctorcomics.blogspot.com


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • mtorreg2001
              Hi, again. I had a bunch of interviews with Wagner, and I think this (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/090809-WagnerXanadu.html) may have been the one I meant
              Message 6 of 9 , May 25 7:55 PM
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                Hi, again. I had a bunch of interviews with Wagner, and I think this (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/090809-WagnerXanadu.html) may have been the one I meant to quote from on his presentation of Xanadu as the Lady of the Lake, though it seems to refer back to the SPECTRE story.

                The interviewer asks: "What made the fall of Camelot the right starting point for this story?"

                Wagner replies: "Well, that was existing canon. Continuity said she once was the nymph Nimue, who locked Merlin away. So that was already there. "

                Michael


                --- In arthurian_comixlist@yahoogroups.com, Alan Stewart <merrygawain@...> wrote:
                >
                > No, not in that or in subsequent issues of that series. Her origins and background are completely mysterious, a la similar characters like the Phantom Stranger.
                >
                > Alan
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: "RODNEYFFC@..." <RODNEYFFC@...>
                > To: arthurian_comixlist@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Sat, May 22, 2010 8:44:23 AM
                > Subject: Re: [arthurian_comixlist] Madame Xanadu
                >
                >
                > Guys,
                >
                > So what is the earliest Arthurian reference in a story with Madame Xanadu?
                > She debuted in "Doorway Into Nightmare" #1 but is there any Arthurian
                > content or reference?
                >
                > Rodney Parrish
                >
                >
                > In a message dated 5/21/2010 10:35:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                > popcultandmiddleages.moderator@... writes:
                >
                > Hi, Alan. Thanks for your reply. My apologies for misquoting the article.
                > It
                > has been a long week.
                >
                > Keep up the great work,
                > Michael
                >
                > On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 4:17 PM, Alan Stewart <merrygawain@...>
                > wrote:
                >
                > >
                > >
                > > Michael,
                > >
                > > I went back and looked at the CBR article, and the statement you quoted
                > > wasn't actually said by Matt Wagner, but rather by the interviewer,
                > Jeffrey
                > > Renaud. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that my research was
                > more
                > > thorough than Mr. Renaud's. But if anyone can find an earlier Arthurian
                > > reference than that Spectre story, I'll be happy to revise my site
                > > accordingly.
                > >
                > > Alan
                > >
                > > ________________________________
                > > From: mtorreg2001
                > <michael.a.torregrossa@...<michael.a.torregrossa%40gmail.com>
                > > >
                > > To:
                > arthurian_comixlist@yahoogroups.com<arthurian_comixlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                > > Sent: Thu, May 20, 2010 10:46:31 PM
                > > Subject: [arthurian_comixlist] Madame Xanadu
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Hi.
                > >
                > > I've been wondering about Madame Xanadu's Arthurian connections. Matt
                > > Wagner's new series presents her as the Lady of the Lake, and Alan says
                > on
                > > his site that this originates with a Spectre story from 1993. However,
                > in an
                > > interview on Comic Book Resources (
                > > http://www.comicbookresources.com/?id=15960&page=article), Wagner
                > states:
                > > "Making her debut in "Doorway to Nightmare" #1 in 1978, Madame Xanadu was
                > > originally introduced as a reincarnation of the Lady of the Lake from
                > > Arthurian legend. Over the years, the character settled into a role as
                > > fortune-teller and resident occult advisor to the DCU. "
                > >
                > > Any thoughts?
                > >
                > > Thanks,
                > > Michael
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                > --
                > Michael A. Torregrossa, Listserv Moderator/ Blog Editor
                > The Virtual Society for the Study of Popular Culture and the Middle Ages
                > Michael A Torregrossa and Carl James Grindley, Co-Founders
                > http://PopularCultureandtheMiddleAges.org
                > http://PopularCultureandtheMiddleAges.blogspot.com/
                > The Arthur of the Comics Project Blog:
                > http://arthur-of-thecomics-project.blogspot.com/
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
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