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Re: [arthurian_comixlist] Madame Xanadu

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  • Alan Stewart
    Michael, I went back and looked at the CBR article, and the statement you quoted wasn t actually said by Matt Wagner, but rather by the interviewer, Jeffrey
    Message 1 of 9 , May 21, 2010
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      Michael,

      I went back and looked at the CBR article, and the statement you quoted wasn't actually said by Matt Wagner, but rather by the interviewer, Jeffrey Renaud.  I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that my research was more thorough than Mr. Renaud's.   But if anyone can find an earlier Arthurian reference than that Spectre story, I'll be happy to revise my site accordingly.

      Alan




      ________________________________
      From: mtorreg2001 <michael.a.torregrossa@...>
      To: arthurian_comixlist@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thu, May 20, 2010 10:46:31 PM
      Subject: [arthurian_comixlist] Madame Xanadu

       
      Hi.

      I've been wondering about Madame Xanadu's Arthurian connections. Matt Wagner's new series presents her as the Lady of the Lake, and Alan says on his site that this originates with a Spectre story from 1993. However, in an interview on Comic Book Resources (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?id=15960&page=article), Wagner states: "Making her debut in "Doorway to Nightmare" #1 in 1978, Madame Xanadu was originally introduced as a reincarnation of the Lady of the Lake from Arthurian legend. Over the years, the character settled into a role as fortune-teller and resident occult advisor to the DCU. "

      Any thoughts?

      Thanks,
      Michael







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • List Moderator, The Society for the Study
      Hi, Alan. Thanks for your reply. My apologies for misquoting the article. It has been a long week. Keep up the great work, Michael ... -- Michael A.
      Message 2 of 9 , May 21, 2010
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        Hi, Alan. Thanks for your reply. My apologies for misquoting the article. It
        has been a long week.

        Keep up the great work,
        Michael


        On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 4:17 PM, Alan Stewart <merrygawain@...> wrote:

        >
        >
        > Michael,
        >
        > I went back and looked at the CBR article, and the statement you quoted
        > wasn't actually said by Matt Wagner, but rather by the interviewer, Jeffrey
        > Renaud. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that my research was more
        > thorough than Mr. Renaud's. But if anyone can find an earlier Arthurian
        > reference than that Spectre story, I'll be happy to revise my site
        > accordingly.
        >
        > Alan
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: mtorreg2001 <michael.a.torregrossa@...<michael.a.torregrossa%40gmail.com>
        > >
        > To: arthurian_comixlist@yahoogroups.com<arthurian_comixlist%40yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Thu, May 20, 2010 10:46:31 PM
        > Subject: [arthurian_comixlist] Madame Xanadu
        >
        >
        >
        > Hi.
        >
        > I've been wondering about Madame Xanadu's Arthurian connections. Matt
        > Wagner's new series presents her as the Lady of the Lake, and Alan says on
        > his site that this originates with a Spectre story from 1993. However, in an
        > interview on Comic Book Resources (
        > http://www.comicbookresources.com/?id=15960&page=article), Wagner states:
        > "Making her debut in "Doorway to Nightmare" #1 in 1978, Madame Xanadu was
        > originally introduced as a reincarnation of the Lady of the Lake from
        > Arthurian legend. Over the years, the character settled into a role as
        > fortune-teller and resident occult advisor to the DCU. "
        >
        > Any thoughts?
        >
        > Thanks,
        > Michael
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >



        --
        Michael A. Torregrossa, Listserv Moderator/ Blog Editor
        The Virtual Society for the Study of Popular Culture and the Middle Ages
        Michael A Torregrossa and Carl James Grindley, Co-Founders
        http://PopularCultureandtheMiddleAges.org
        http://PopularCultureandtheMiddleAges.blogspot.com/
        The Arthur of the Comics Project Blog:
        http://arthur-of-thecomics-project.blogspot.com/


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • RODNEYFFC@AOL.COM
        Guys, So what is the earliest Arthurian reference in a story with Madame Xanadu? She debuted in Doorway Into Nightmare #1 but is there any Arthurian
        Message 3 of 9 , May 22, 2010
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          Guys,

          So what is the earliest Arthurian reference in a story with Madame Xanadu?
          She debuted in "Doorway Into Nightmare" #1 but is there any Arthurian
          content or reference?

          Rodney Parrish


          In a message dated 5/21/2010 10:35:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
          popcultandmiddleages.moderator@... writes:

          Hi, Alan. Thanks for your reply. My apologies for misquoting the article.
          It
          has been a long week.

          Keep up the great work,
          Michael


          On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 4:17 PM, Alan Stewart <merrygawain@...>
          wrote:

          >
          >
          > Michael,
          >
          > I went back and looked at the CBR article, and the statement you quoted
          > wasn't actually said by Matt Wagner, but rather by the interviewer,
          Jeffrey
          > Renaud. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that my research was
          more
          > thorough than Mr. Renaud's. But if anyone can find an earlier Arthurian
          > reference than that Spectre story, I'll be happy to revise my site
          > accordingly.
          >
          > Alan
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: mtorreg2001
          <michael.a.torregrossa@...<michael.a.torregrossa%40gmail.com>
          > >
          > To:
          arthurian_comixlist@yahoogroups.com<arthurian_comixlist%40yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Thu, May 20, 2010 10:46:31 PM
          > Subject: [arthurian_comixlist] Madame Xanadu
          >
          >
          >
          > Hi.
          >
          > I've been wondering about Madame Xanadu's Arthurian connections. Matt
          > Wagner's new series presents her as the Lady of the Lake, and Alan says
          on
          > his site that this originates with a Spectre story from 1993. However,
          in an
          > interview on Comic Book Resources (
          > http://www.comicbookresources.com/?id=15960&page=article), Wagner
          states:
          > "Making her debut in "Doorway to Nightmare" #1 in 1978, Madame Xanadu was
          > originally introduced as a reincarnation of the Lady of the Lake from
          > Arthurian legend. Over the years, the character settled into a role as
          > fortune-teller and resident occult advisor to the DCU. "
          >
          > Any thoughts?
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Michael
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >



          --
          Michael A. Torregrossa, Listserv Moderator/ Blog Editor
          The Virtual Society for the Study of Popular Culture and the Middle Ages
          Michael A Torregrossa and Carl James Grindley, Co-Founders
          http://PopularCultureandtheMiddleAges.org
          http://PopularCultureandtheMiddleAges.blogspot.com/
          The Arthur of the Comics Project Blog:
          http://arthur-of-thecomics-project.blogspot.com/


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Alan Stewart
          No, not in that or in subsequent issues of that series. Her origins and background are completely mysterious, a la similar characters like the Phantom
          Message 4 of 9 , May 23, 2010
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            No, not in that or in subsequent issues of that series. Her origins and background are completely mysterious, a la similar characters like the Phantom Stranger.

            Alan





            ________________________________
            From: "RODNEYFFC@..." <RODNEYFFC@...>
            To: arthurian_comixlist@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sat, May 22, 2010 8:44:23 AM
            Subject: Re: [arthurian_comixlist] Madame Xanadu


            Guys,

            So what is the earliest Arthurian reference in a story with Madame Xanadu?
            She debuted in "Doorway Into Nightmare" #1 but is there any Arthurian
            content or reference?

            Rodney Parrish


            In a message dated 5/21/2010 10:35:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
            popcultandmiddleages.moderator@... writes:

            Hi, Alan. Thanks for your reply. My apologies for misquoting the article.
            It
            has been a long week.

            Keep up the great work,
            Michael

            On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 4:17 PM, Alan Stewart <merrygawain@...>
            wrote:

            >
            >
            > Michael,
            >
            > I went back and looked at the CBR article, and the statement you quoted
            > wasn't actually said by Matt Wagner, but rather by the interviewer,
            Jeffrey
            > Renaud. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that my research was
            more
            > thorough than Mr. Renaud's. But if anyone can find an earlier Arthurian
            > reference than that Spectre story, I'll be happy to revise my site
            > accordingly.
            >
            > Alan
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: mtorreg2001
            <michael.a.torregrossa@...<michael.a.torregrossa%40gmail.com>
            > >
            > To:
            arthurian_comixlist@yahoogroups.com<arthurian_comixlist%40yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Thu, May 20, 2010 10:46:31 PM
            > Subject: [arthurian_comixlist] Madame Xanadu
            >
            >
            >
            > Hi.
            >
            > I've been wondering about Madame Xanadu's Arthurian connections. Matt
            > Wagner's new series presents her as the Lady of the Lake, and Alan says
            on
            > his site that this originates with a Spectre story from 1993. However,
            in an
            > interview on Comic Book Resources (
            > http://www.comicbookresources.com/?id=15960&page=article), Wagner
            states:
            > "Making her debut in "Doorway to Nightmare" #1 in 1978, Madame Xanadu was
            > originally introduced as a reincarnation of the Lady of the Lake from
            > Arthurian legend. Over the years, the character settled into a role as
            > fortune-teller and resident occult advisor to the DCU. "
            >
            > Any thoughts?
            >
            > Thanks,
            > Michael
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >

            --
            Michael A. Torregrossa, Listserv Moderator/ Blog Editor
            The Virtual Society for the Study of Popular Culture and the Middle Ages
            Michael A Torregrossa and Carl James Grindley, Co-Founders
            http://PopularCultureandtheMiddleAges.org
            http://PopularCultureandtheMiddleAges.blogspot.com/
            The Arthur of the Comics Project Blog:
            http://arthur-of-thecomics-project.blogspot.com/

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            ------------------------------------

            Yahoo! Groups Links

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Jason Tondro
            I suppose it is that very mysteriousness that invites writers to fiddle with her background and meaning, imprinting whatever mythology or origin they want
            Message 5 of 9 , May 23, 2010
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              I suppose it is that very mysteriousness that invites writers to fiddle with
              her background and "meaning," imprinting whatever mythology or origin they
              want onto her. I'm fairly surprised there's no comic which reveals that
              Phantom Stranger is actually Merlin or, perhaps more likely considering
              comics, that the Phantom Stranger went to Arthurian England and adopted the
              identity of Merlin while he advised the King there.

              On Sun, May 23, 2010 at 8:21 AM, Alan Stewart <merrygawain@...> wrote:

              >
              >
              > No, not in that or in subsequent issues of that series. Her origins and
              > background are completely mysterious, a la similar characters like the
              > Phantom Stranger.
              >
              > Alan
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: "RODNEYFFC@... <RODNEYFFC%40AOL.COM>" <RODNEYFFC@...<RODNEYFFC%40AOL.COM>
              > >
              >
              > To: arthurian_comixlist@yahoogroups.com<arthurian_comixlist%40yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Sat, May 22, 2010 8:44:23 AM
              > Subject: Re: [arthurian_comixlist] Madame Xanadu
              >
              >
              > Guys,
              >
              > So what is the earliest Arthurian reference in a story with Madame Xanadu?
              > She debuted in "Doorway Into Nightmare" #1 but is there any Arthurian
              > content or reference?
              >
              > Rodney Parrish
              >
              > In a message dated 5/21/2010 10:35:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
              > popcultandmiddleages.moderator@...<popcultandmiddleages.moderator%40gmail.com>writes:
              >
              > Hi, Alan. Thanks for your reply. My apologies for misquoting the article.
              > It
              > has been a long week.
              >
              > Keep up the great work,
              > Michael
              >
              > On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 4:17 PM, Alan Stewart <merrygawain@...<merrygawain%40yahoo.com>>
              >
              > wrote:
              >
              > >
              > >
              > > Michael,
              > >
              > > I went back and looked at the CBR article, and the statement you quoted
              > > wasn't actually said by Matt Wagner, but rather by the interviewer,
              > Jeffrey
              > > Renaud. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that my research was
              > more
              > > thorough than Mr. Renaud's. But if anyone can find an earlier Arthurian
              > > reference than that Spectre story, I'll be happy to revise my site
              > > accordingly.
              > >
              > > Alan
              > >
              > > ________________________________
              > > From: mtorreg2001
              > <michael.a.torregrossa@... <michael.a.torregrossa%40gmail.com>
              > <michael.a.torregrossa%40gmail.com>
              > > >
              > > To:
              > arthurian_comixlist@yahoogroups.com<arthurian_comixlist%40yahoogroups.com>
              > <arthurian_comixlist%40yahoogroups.com>
              > > Sent: Thu, May 20, 2010 10:46:31 PM
              > > Subject: [arthurian_comixlist] Madame Xanadu
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Hi.
              > >
              > > I've been wondering about Madame Xanadu's Arthurian connections. Matt
              > > Wagner's new series presents her as the Lady of the Lake, and Alan says
              > on
              > > his site that this originates with a Spectre story from 1993. However,
              > in an
              > > interview on Comic Book Resources (
              > > http://www.comicbookresources.com/?id=15960&page=article), Wagner
              > states:
              > > "Making her debut in "Doorway to Nightmare" #1 in 1978, Madame Xanadu was
              > > originally introduced as a reincarnation of the Lady of the Lake from
              > > Arthurian legend. Over the years, the character settled into a role as
              > > fortune-teller and resident occult advisor to the DCU. "
              > >
              > > Any thoughts?
              > >
              > > Thanks,
              > > Michael
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              > --
              > Michael A. Torregrossa, Listserv Moderator/ Blog Editor
              > The Virtual Society for the Study of Popular Culture and the Middle Ages
              > Michael A Torregrossa and Carl James Grindley, Co-Founders
              > http://PopularCultureandtheMiddleAges.org
              > http://PopularCultureandtheMiddleAges.blogspot.com/
              > The Arthur of the Comics Project Blog:
              > http://arthur-of-thecomics-project.blogspot.com/
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >



              --
              doctorcomics.blogspot.com


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • scarfman@iglou.com
              ... If only as a part of the origin of the DC character The Demon, Merlin is pretty much established as a separate character. Which doesn t rule out a story
              Message 6 of 9 , May 24, 2010
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                On Sun, May 23, 2010 12:08, Jason Tondro wrote:
                > I suppose it is that very mysteriousness that invites writers to fiddle
                > with her background and "meaning," imprinting whatever mythology or origin
                > they want onto her. I'm fairly surprised there's no comic which reveals
                > that Phantom Stranger is actually Merlin or, perhaps more likely
                > considering comics, that the Phantom Stranger went to Arthurian England
                > and adopted the identity of Merlin while he advised the King there.

                If only as a part of the origin of the DC character The Demon, Merlin is
                pretty much established as a separate character. Which doesn't rule out a
                story with the Stranger assuming Merlin's identity for a time.

                As for the Stranger's origin: DC did an issue of Secret Origins for him in
                the 80s. Four different writers wrote four different stories.


                Paul Gadzikowski, scarfman@...
                http://arthurkingoftimeandspace.com/0001.htm New cartoons daily
                http://arthurkingoftimeandspace.com/3faces/aaaa.htm Fanfiction cartoons

                "Oh, not another mastodon!"
              • Jason Tondro
                Oh sure. DC had three different Merlins running around, last I checked. And I know there have been origins for the Stranger. I was just generally speculating
                Message 7 of 9 , May 24, 2010
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                  Oh sure. DC had three different Merlins running around, last I checked. And
                  I know there have been origins for the Stranger. I was just generally
                  speculating on the temptation to graft characters with mysterious and
                  undefined origins onto well-known tropes like Arthur.

                  It reminds me of that throw-away sequence in a page of Forever People when
                  the team go back to Arthurian England and more or less accidentally cause
                  Arthur to pull the sword out of the stone. I don't think Kirby cared a whole
                  lot for continuity, at least not if it got in the way of an amusing gag.

                  On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 7:15 AM, <scarfman@...> wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  > On Sun, May 23, 2010 12:08, Jason Tondro wrote:
                  > > I suppose it is that very mysteriousness that invites writers to fiddle
                  > > with her background and "meaning," imprinting whatever mythology or
                  > origin
                  > > they want onto her. I'm fairly surprised there's no comic which reveals
                  > > that Phantom Stranger is actually Merlin or, perhaps more likely
                  > > considering comics, that the Phantom Stranger went to Arthurian England
                  > > and adopted the identity of Merlin while he advised the King there.
                  >
                  > If only as a part of the origin of the DC character The Demon, Merlin is
                  > pretty much established as a separate character. Which doesn't rule out a
                  > story with the Stranger assuming Merlin's identity for a time.
                  >
                  > As for the Stranger's origin: DC did an issue of Secret Origins for him in
                  > the 80s. Four different writers wrote four different stories.
                  >
                  > Paul Gadzikowski, scarfman@... <scarfman%40iglou.com>
                  > http://arthurkingoftimeandspace.com/0001.htm New cartoons daily
                  > http://arthurkingoftimeandspace.com/3faces/aaaa.htm Fanfiction cartoons
                  >
                  > "Oh, not another mastodon!"
                  >
                  >
                  >



                  --
                  doctorcomics.blogspot.com


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • mtorreg2001
                  Hi, again. I had a bunch of interviews with Wagner, and I think this (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/090809-WagnerXanadu.html) may have been the one I meant
                  Message 8 of 9 , May 25, 2010
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                    Hi, again. I had a bunch of interviews with Wagner, and I think this (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/090809-WagnerXanadu.html) may have been the one I meant to quote from on his presentation of Xanadu as the Lady of the Lake, though it seems to refer back to the SPECTRE story.

                    The interviewer asks: "What made the fall of Camelot the right starting point for this story?"

                    Wagner replies: "Well, that was existing canon. Continuity said she once was the nymph Nimue, who locked Merlin away. So that was already there. "

                    Michael


                    --- In arthurian_comixlist@yahoogroups.com, Alan Stewart <merrygawain@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > No, not in that or in subsequent issues of that series. Her origins and background are completely mysterious, a la similar characters like the Phantom Stranger.
                    >
                    > Alan
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: "RODNEYFFC@..." <RODNEYFFC@...>
                    > To: arthurian_comixlist@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Sat, May 22, 2010 8:44:23 AM
                    > Subject: Re: [arthurian_comixlist] Madame Xanadu
                    >
                    >
                    > Guys,
                    >
                    > So what is the earliest Arthurian reference in a story with Madame Xanadu?
                    > She debuted in "Doorway Into Nightmare" #1 but is there any Arthurian
                    > content or reference?
                    >
                    > Rodney Parrish
                    >
                    >
                    > In a message dated 5/21/2010 10:35:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                    > popcultandmiddleages.moderator@... writes:
                    >
                    > Hi, Alan. Thanks for your reply. My apologies for misquoting the article.
                    > It
                    > has been a long week.
                    >
                    > Keep up the great work,
                    > Michael
                    >
                    > On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 4:17 PM, Alan Stewart <merrygawain@...>
                    > wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Michael,
                    > >
                    > > I went back and looked at the CBR article, and the statement you quoted
                    > > wasn't actually said by Matt Wagner, but rather by the interviewer,
                    > Jeffrey
                    > > Renaud. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that my research was
                    > more
                    > > thorough than Mr. Renaud's. But if anyone can find an earlier Arthurian
                    > > reference than that Spectre story, I'll be happy to revise my site
                    > > accordingly.
                    > >
                    > > Alan
                    > >
                    > > ________________________________
                    > > From: mtorreg2001
                    > <michael.a.torregrossa@...<michael.a.torregrossa%40gmail.com>
                    > > >
                    > > To:
                    > arthurian_comixlist@yahoogroups.com<arthurian_comixlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > > Sent: Thu, May 20, 2010 10:46:31 PM
                    > > Subject: [arthurian_comixlist] Madame Xanadu
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Hi.
                    > >
                    > > I've been wondering about Madame Xanadu's Arthurian connections. Matt
                    > > Wagner's new series presents her as the Lady of the Lake, and Alan says
                    > on
                    > > his site that this originates with a Spectre story from 1993. However,
                    > in an
                    > > interview on Comic Book Resources (
                    > > http://www.comicbookresources.com/?id=15960&page=article), Wagner
                    > states:
                    > > "Making her debut in "Doorway to Nightmare" #1 in 1978, Madame Xanadu was
                    > > originally introduced as a reincarnation of the Lady of the Lake from
                    > > Arthurian legend. Over the years, the character settled into a role as
                    > > fortune-teller and resident occult advisor to the DCU. "
                    > >
                    > > Any thoughts?
                    > >
                    > > Thanks,
                    > > Michael
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > --
                    > Michael A. Torregrossa, Listserv Moderator/ Blog Editor
                    > The Virtual Society for the Study of Popular Culture and the Middle Ages
                    > Michael A Torregrossa and Carl James Grindley, Co-Founders
                    > http://PopularCultureandtheMiddleAges.org
                    > http://PopularCultureandtheMiddleAges.blogspot.com/
                    > The Arthur of the Comics Project Blog:
                    > http://arthur-of-thecomics-project.blogspot.com/
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
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