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RE: [art_education] Intro and elementary ceramics

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  • Hillmer, Jan
    Hi, Hi, Try to simplify, simplify. Go for simple slab projects; very simple pots, etc. Try to limit the subject matter somewhat. Like instead of turtles,
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 4, 2005
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      Hi,

      Hi,

      Try to simplify, simplify. Go for simple slab projects; very simple
      pots, etc. Try to limit the subject matter somewhat. Like instead of
      turtles, try sea life or animals... Some variety, but also some
      direction. Plan the project so that you focus on just one or two
      things for each - vocabulary, techniques and subject. Plan carefully,
      too, about building on your students' previous year's learning. Until
      the students get used to you and have you for a few years of skill
      building, it may be a bit of a struggle.

      I certainly don't claim to know lots about ceramics, but having taught
      both HS and elementary students, you do have to simplify the amount of
      info you include in the lessons, especially till they get used to your
      teaching style.

      If you'd like, email me off list and we can share more. I am sure there
      are things that you're doing with your students that are good, good,
      good!

      Jan

      -----Original Message-----
      From: art_education@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:art_education@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mikellee31
      Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 11:24 PM
      To: art_education@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [art_education] Intro and elementary ceramics

      Hi everyone, I am not new to the list, but I do not know if I have ever
      formally introduced
      myself. I have been a secondary art teacher for the past 7 years and
      this year I have
      switched to teaching 1st-5th elementary. I have about 540 students. I
      see them once a
      week for 1 hour for a total of 25 classes! I was a candidate for
      National Board Cert. but
      after changing levels I decided that I am pretty much a first year
      teacher and I needed to
      put that on hold, so I withdrew....

      I have had a lot of trouble with all sorts of things, but right now it
      is ceramics. I have
      always taught by teaching the vocab, the rules, and the techniques and
      then allowing
      studio after some planning on the part of the students. Today was my
      first day trying clay
      with the kids and I tried coil with some classes and pinch pots with
      some....they all looked
      horrible!! Not in the kids cool type of horrible, but in the completely
      not getting it at all
      type of horrible!

      I noticed that at the beginning of the year the kids were asking me to
      make specific thing
      out of clay - like 4th grade wanted to make "turtles" because that is
      what the previous
      teacher did with 4th grade....and 5th grade wanted to make food. I just
      don't quite know
      what is the best way to approach teaching this age and I am not feeling
      too good about
      saying " we are all making dogs" or something like that- However they
      don't seem to be
      responding too well to open ended assignments. Any advice on how to
      structure? It seems
      like I am stuck between process and product and lack of time to have
      enough process to
      develop a product- ha ha! - Any help on or off topic on or off list is
      welcome.







      Yahoo! Groups Links
    • kelly taylor
      Hello, Ceramics is tough at the elementary level. One lesson that works really well for me is the pinch pots the with younger grades but it has to be a step by
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 4, 2005
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        Hello,
        Ceramics is tough at the elementary level.
        One lesson that works really well for me is the pinch
        pots the with younger grades but it has to be a step
        by step process with them. You can't show them all
        the steps at once, and then tell them to do it. I
        start by showing them how to wedge the class and then
        let them do it. I will say ok now you wedge it 5
        times. Do then they do that. Once they have done
        that I teach them to roll it into a ball, then they
        roll it into a ball. Then once they are finished i
        tell them to hold the ball in the palm of their hands
        and place their thumbs on top and then push their
        thumbs into the clay to create a hole in the middle of
        the ball. Once they have done that, i them teach them
        to pinch it out. And then we decorate it.
        Each step I show them and then they do it. I break it
        into as small as steps a possible for them. I am not
        a cookie cutter art teacher so this kills me to teach
        like this but for ceramics in works the best. They
        all end up looking different so that makes me feel
        better.
        Good luck
        Kelly

        --- mikellee31 <mikellee31@...> wrote:

        > Hi everyone, I am not new to the list, but I do not
        > know if I have ever formally introduced
        > myself. I have been a secondary art teacher for the
        > past 7 years and this year I have
        > switched to teaching 1st-5th elementary. I have
        > about 540 students. I see them once a
        > week for 1 hour for a total of 25 classes! I was a
        > candidate for National Board Cert. but
        > after changing levels I decided that I am pretty
        > much a first year teacher and I needed to
        > put that on hold, so I withdrew....
        >
        > I have had a lot of trouble with all sorts of
        > things, but right now it is ceramics. I have
        > always taught by teaching the vocab, the rules, and
        > the techniques and then allowing
        > studio after some planning on the part of the
        > students. Today was my first day trying clay
        > with the kids and I tried coil with some classes and
        > pinch pots with some....they all looked
        > horrible!! Not in the kids cool type of horrible,
        > but in the completely not getting it at all
        > type of horrible!
        >
        > I noticed that at the beginning of the year the kids
        > were asking me to make specific thing
        > out of clay - like 4th grade wanted to make
        > "turtles" because that is what the previous
        > teacher did with 4th grade....and 5th grade wanted
        > to make food. I just don't quite know
        > what is the best way to approach teaching this age
        > and I am not feeling too good about
        > saying " we are all making dogs" or something like
        > that- However they don't seem to be
        > responding too well to open ended assignments. Any
        > advice on how to structure? It seems
        > like I am stuck between process and product and lack
        > of time to have enough process to
        > develop a product- ha ha! - Any help on or off topic
        > on or off list is welcome.
        >
        >
        >
        >





        __________________________________
        Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
        http://mail.yahoo.com
      • Mikel Lee
        Thank you to everyone who replied to my post! I got some really great ideas. For one I learned that I was not breaking the pinching of the pots into simple
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 5, 2005
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          Thank you to everyone who replied to my post! I got
          some really great ideas. For one I learned that I was
          not breaking the pinching of the pots into simple
          enough steps- I was just having them press in their
          thumbs and telling them not to make it too fat.

          I also can't believe that Ann teaches 40 kids at a
          time- WHOA!! I will be tackling the issue again with a
          new group on Monday and I know that I will be better
          equipped because of all of the great advice! - Mikel



          __________________________________
          Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
          http://farechase.yahoo.com
        • Susan Michael
          I saw a segment on DIY network about pinch pots this week. http://www.diynet.com/ search pinch pot DIY people Making Pinch Pots. Susan [Non-text portions of
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 5, 2005
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            I saw a segment on DIY network about pinch pots this week. http://www.diynet.com/ search pinch pot
            DIY people Making Pinch Pots. Susan

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • wymystic
            Hi, Mikelle I wanted to add a few thoughts: Thought ONE When I student taught in high school, my (experienced) supervising teacher let students to make ANY
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 8, 2005
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              Hi, Mikelle
              I wanted to add a few thoughts:
              Thought ONE
              When I student taught in high school, my (experienced) supervising
              teacher let students to make ANY sort of pinch pot. When the pots
              were bone dry, he showed his students how to make their pot's shape
              more symetrical, and how to make the walls/base thin enough, by
              using---> sandpaper!. The process tool SO long -- and I cannot tell
              you the amount of dust that was generated. The kids couldn't
              decorate the surface with scriffito, mishima, or texture because
              most had to sand the outside surface of their pots. Well, perhaps
              as a reaction to that experience, when I teach pinch pots ...
              A) To avoid tears, I tell them UP FRONT that we WILL spend 2 days
              doing NOTHING BUT making pinch pots!
              B) I tell my students that if they cannot rough out a centered
              pinch pot with fairly uniform walls and base in about three
              minutes, then they need to start over because the problems will
              compound themselves as they continue to work with their pots.

              EVERYONE gets a ball of clay and access to a spritz water bottle
              (one bottle for 4 students sitting across from one another) First we
              insert a thumb and push almost to the bottom. I tell them at this
              point that clay moves at right angles to the direction in which the
              force is applied, and I show them how to change their finger
              positions to create either a ball-ish or a taller pinch pot from
              the "get-go." Over the course of the two days, they have to try
              both ...

              Once we create our pinch pots--or when the timer sounds out in five
              minutes, which ever comes first--we stop and immediately cut our
              pinch pots vertically in half with a wire. We want to inspect our
              walls and base for uniformity, and to see if we made a uniformly and
              SLIGHTLY thicker shoulder, and retaining rim at the opening. Next,
              we make notes (drawn diagrams for little folks) in our process
              journals, put the clay back into a ball, I set the timer and we all
              proceed to make yet another pinch pot. The second day I let them
              work at their own pace. If a student has trouble creating a centered
              opening, I will make up a bunch of balls of clay so the student can
              practice just THAT part of it over and over till the technique is
              mastered.

              I have about 32 minutes of actual teaching time with my kids ....
              Over the course of these first two days, each child usually makes at
              least ten basic pinch pots--NONE of which may be kept...PERIOD. This
              policy truly LEVELS the playing field! The beginning student doesn't
              feel so vulnerable because they know that EVERYONE's pots will be
              torn down--and that we will all learn from analyzing both the good,
              the improving, and the icky pots (though we don't call them that!).
              Not allowing the first pots to be kept also allows EVERYONE to get
              the practice we need up front. uring this time, I can catch
              technical errors and help students adapt BEFORE the incorrect
              proceedure becomes a habit. The students learn how to keep their
              clay moistened and conditioned as they go. When they cut their pots
              down and inspect the insides of their walls and base, students learn
              what those sneeky air bubbles ("invisible" on the outside) LOOK LIKE
              when they're hiding inside the walls of their pots. When we've
              pretty much mastered the technique, I encourage my students to bring
              someone to the art room (lunch & after school) and teach THEM how to
              create a pinch pot!

              Although I've been teaching in middle school for the past seven
              years, I've successfully taught clay pinch pots to grades 2-12 by
              this method. We always have a LOT of time to decorate or alter our
              basic pots because, having had that intense practice in the
              beginning, the kids form their basic pots very well the first time!
              They love it--so do I!

              THOUGHT TWO: I like to have the students make ocarinas from their
              pinch pots ... There are several ways to do that, but I like to make
              birds by flattening in one pinch pot. I cannot find the ULR to the
              site that has these directions right now. If someone wants, I'll
              post it when I find it.
              Another way to create an ocarina in animal forms is by joining two
              pinch pots of similar size. <<http://www.carousel-
              music.com/nf/ocarinasnf.html>>
              <<http://www.green.ltd.uk/ocarina>>
              <<http://www.friendsoffreedom.com/Crafts/Ocarinas/OcarinaPg.html>>

              Blessings
              Doree
              § :~D)>+


              --- In art_education@yahoogroups.com, "mikellee31" <mikellee31@y...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Hi everyone, I am not new to the list, but I do not know if I have
              ever formally introduced
              > myself. I have been a secondary art teacher for the past 7 years
              and this year I have
              > switched to teaching 1st-5th elementary. I have about 540
              students. I see them once a
              > week for 1 hour for a total of 25 classes! I was a candidate for
              National Board Cert. but
              > after changing levels I decided that I am pretty much a first year
              teacher and I needed to
              > put that on hold, so I withdrew....
              >
              > I have had a lot of trouble with all sorts of things, but right
              now it is ceramics. I have
              > always taught by teaching the vocab, the rules, and the techniques
              and then allowing
              > studio after some planning on the part of the students. Today was
              my first day trying clay
              > with the kids and I tried coil with some classes and pinch pots
              with some....they all looked
              > horrible!! Not in the kids cool type of horrible, but in the
              completely not getting it at all
              > type of horrible!
              >
              > I noticed that at the beginning of the year the kids were asking
              me to make specific thing
              > out of clay - like 4th grade wanted to make "turtles" because that
              is what the previous
              > teacher did with 4th grade....and 5th grade wanted to make food. I
              just don't quite know
              > what is the best way to approach teaching this age and I am not
              feeling too good about
              > saying " we are all making dogs" or something like that- However
              they don't seem to be
              > responding too well to open ended assignments. Any advice on how
              to structure? It seems
              > like I am stuck between process and product and lack of time to
              have enough process to
              > develop a product- ha ha! - Any help on or off topic on or off
              list is welcome.
              >
            • Leah Korican
              this is a great idea!!!!! thank you. leah ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 9 , Nov 8, 2005
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                this is a great idea!!!!! thank you.

                leah
                On Nov 8, 2005, at 4:39 PM, wymystic wrote:

                > Hi, Mikelle
                > I wanted to add a few thoughts: 
                > Thought ONE
                > When I student taught in high school, my (experienced) supervising
                > teacher let students to make ANY sort of pinch pot.  When the pots
                > were bone dry, he showed his students how to make their pot's shape
                > more symetrical, and how to make the walls/base thin enough, by
                > using---> sandpaper!.  The process tool SO long -- and I cannot tell
                > you the amount of dust that was generated. The kids couldn't
                > decorate the surface with scriffito, mishima, or texture because
                > most had to sand the outside surface of their pots.    Well, perhaps
                > as a reaction to that experience, when I teach pinch pots ...
                > A) To avoid tears, I tell them UP FRONT that we WILL spend 2 days
                > doing NOTHING BUT making pinch pots! 
                > B) I tell my students that if they cannot rough out a centered
                > pinch pot with fairly uniform  walls and base in about three
                > minutes, then they need to start over because the problems will
                > compound themselves as they continue to work with their pots. 
                >
                > EVERYONE gets a ball of clay and access to a spritz water bottle
                > (one bottle for 4 students sitting across from one another) First we
                > insert a thumb and push almost to the bottom.  I tell them at this
                > point that clay moves at right angles to the direction in which the
                > force is applied, and I show them how to change their finger
                > positions to create either a ball-ish or a taller pinch pot from
                > the "get-go."    Over the course of the two days, they have to try
                > both ...
                >
                > Once we create our pinch pots--or when the timer sounds out in five
                > minutes, which ever comes first--we stop and immediately cut our
                > pinch pots vertically in half with a wire.  We want to inspect our
                > walls and base for uniformity, and to see if we made a uniformly and
                > SLIGHTLY thicker shoulder, and retaining rim at the opening.  Next,
                > we make notes (drawn diagrams for little folks) in our process
                > journals, put the clay back into a ball, I set the timer and we all
                > proceed to make yet another pinch pot.  The second day I let them
                > work at their own pace. If a student has trouble creating a centered
                > opening, I will make up a bunch of balls of clay so the student can
                > practice just THAT part of it over and over till the technique is
                > mastered.
                >
                > I have about 32 minutes of actual teaching time with my kids ....
                > Over the course of these first two days, each child usually makes at
                > least ten basic pinch pots--NONE of which may be kept...PERIOD. This
                > policy truly LEVELS the playing field! The beginning student doesn't
                > feel so vulnerable because they know that EVERYONE's pots will be
                > torn down--and that we will all learn from analyzing both the good,
                > the improving, and the icky pots (though we don't call them that!).
                > Not allowing the first pots to be kept also allows EVERYONE to get
                > the practice we need up front.  uring this time, I can catch
                > technical errors and help students adapt BEFORE the incorrect
                > proceedure becomes a habit.  The students learn how to keep their
                > clay moistened and conditioned as they go.  When they cut their pots
                > down and inspect the insides of their walls and base, students learn
                > what those sneeky air bubbles ("invisible" on the outside) LOOK LIKE
                > when they're hiding inside the walls of their pots.  When we've
                > pretty much mastered the technique, I encourage my students to bring
                > someone to the art room (lunch & after school) and teach THEM how to
                > create a pinch pot! 
                >
                > Although I've been teaching in middle school for the past seven
                > years, I've successfully taught clay pinch pots to grades 2-12 by
                > this method. We always have a LOT of time to decorate or alter our
                > basic pots because, having had that intense practice in the
                > beginning, the kids form their basic pots very well the first time!
                > They love it--so do I!
                >
                > THOUGHT TWO:  I like to have the students make ocarinas from their
                > pinch pots ... There are several ways to do that, but I like to make
                > birds by flattening in one pinch pot.  I cannot find the ULR to the
                > site that has these directions right now.  If someone wants, I'll
                > post it when I find it. 
                > Another way to create an ocarina in animal forms is by joining two
                > pinch pots of similar size.  <<http://www.carousel-
                > music.com/nf/ocarinasnf.html>>
                > <<http://www.green.ltd.uk/ocarina>>
                > <<http://www.friendsoffreedom.com/Crafts/Ocarinas/OcarinaPg.html>>
                >
                > Blessings
                > Doree
                > § :~D)>+
                >
                >
                > --- In art_education@yahoogroups.com, "mikellee31" <mikellee31@y...>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > Hi everyone, I am not new to the list, but I do not know if I have
                > ever formally introduced
                > > myself. I have been a secondary art teacher for the past 7 years
                > and this year I have
                > > switched to teaching 1st-5th elementary. I have about 540
                > students. I see them once a
                > > week for 1 hour for a total of 25 classes! I was a candidate for
                > National Board Cert. but
                > > after changing levels I decided that I am pretty much a first year
                > teacher and I needed to
                > > put that on hold, so I withdrew....
                > >
                > > I have had a lot of trouble with all sorts of things, but right
                > now it is ceramics. I have
                > > always taught by teaching the vocab, the rules, and the techniques
                > and then allowing
                > > studio after some planning on the part of the students. Today was
                > my first day trying clay
                > > with the kids and I tried coil with some classes and pinch pots
                > with some....they all looked
                > > horrible!! Not in the kids cool type of horrible, but in the
                > completely not getting it at all
                > > type of horrible! 
                > >
                > > I noticed that at the beginning of the year the kids were asking
                > me to make specific thing
                > > out of clay - like 4th grade wanted to make "turtles" because that
                > is what the previous
                > > teacher did with 4th grade....and 5th grade wanted to make food. I
                > just don't quite know
                > > what is the best way to approach teaching this age and I am not
                > feeling too good about
                > > saying " we are all making dogs" or something like that- However
                > they don't seem to be
                > > responding too well to open ended assignments.  Any advice on how
                > to structure? It seems
                > > like I am stuck between process and product and lack of time to
                > have enough process to
                > > develop a product- ha ha! - Any help on or off topic on or off
                > list is welcome.
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                >
                > ▪  Visit your group "art_education" on the web.
                >  
                > ▪  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                >  art_education-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >  
                > ▪  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                > Service.
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • bruthrobson@aol.com
                I would love the url for making the birds with pinch pots if you find it! Spose this would work for air dry clay or sculpey? Brenda Hi, Mikelle ... [Non-text
                Message 7 of 9 , Nov 9, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  I would love the url for making the birds with pinch pots if you find it!
                  Spose this would work for air dry clay or sculpey?
                  Brenda




                  Hi, Mikelle
                  > I wanted to add a few thoughts:
                  > Thought ONE
                  > When I student taught in high school, my (experienced) supervising
                  > teacher let students to make ANY sort of pinch pot. When the pots
                  > were bone dry, he showed his students how to make their pot's shape
                  > more symetrical, and how to make the walls/base thin enough, by
                  > using---> sandpaper!. The process tool SO long -- and I cannot tell
                  > you the amount of dust that was generated. The kids couldn't
                  > decorate the surface with scriffito, mishima, or texture because
                  > most had to sand the outside surface of their pots. Well, perhaps
                  > as a reaction to that experience, when I teach pinch pots ...
                  > A) To avoid tears, I tell them UP FRONT that we WILL spend 2 days
                  > doing NOTHING BUT making pinch pots!
                  > B) I tell my students that if they cannot rough out a centered
                  > pinch pot with fairly uniform walls and base in about three
                  > minutes, then they need to start over because the problems will
                  > compound themselves as they continue to work with their pots.
                  >
                  > EVERYONE gets a ball of clay and access to a spritz water bottle
                  > (one bottle for 4 students sitting across from one another) First we
                  > insert a thumb and push almost to the bottom. I tell them at this
                  > point that clay moves at right angles to the direction in which the
                  > force is applied, and I show them how to change their finger
                  > positions to create either a ball-ish or a taller pinch pot from
                  > the "get-go." Over the course of the two days, they have to try
                  > both ...
                  >
                  > Once we create our pinch pots--or when the timer sounds out in five
                  > minutes, which ever comes first--we stop and immediately cut our
                  > pinch pots vertically in half with a wire. We want to inspect our
                  > walls and base for uniformity, and to see if we made a uniformly and
                  > SLIGHTLY thicker shoulder, and retaining rim at the opening. Next,
                  > we make notes (drawn diagrams for little folks) in our process
                  > journals, put the clay back into a ball, I set the timer and we all
                  > proceed to make yet another pinch pot. The second day I let them
                  > work at their own pace. If a student has trouble creating a centered
                  > opening, I will make up a bunch of balls of clay so the student can
                  > practice just THAT part of it over and over till the technique is
                  > mastered.
                  >
                  > I have about 32 minutes of actual teaching time with my kids ....
                  > Over the course of these first two days, each child usually makes at
                  > least ten basic pinch pots--NONE of which may be kept...PERIOD. This
                  > policy truly LEVELS the playing field! The beginning student doesn't
                  > feel so vulnerable because they know that EVERYONE's pots will be
                  > torn down--and that we will all learn from analyzing both the good,
                  > the improving, and the icky pots (though we don't call them that!).
                  > Not allowing the first pots to be kept also allows EVERYONE to get
                  > the practice we need up front. uring this time, I can catch
                  > technical errors and help students adapt BEFORE the incorrect
                  > proceedure becomes a habit. The students learn how to keep their
                  > clay moistened and conditioned as they go. When they cut their pots
                  > down and inspect the insides of their walls and base, students learn
                  > what those sneeky air bubbles ("invisible" on the outside) LOOK LIKE
                  > when they're hiding inside the walls of their pots. When we've
                  > pretty much mastered the technique, I encourage my students to bring
                  > someone to the art room (lunch & after school) and teach THEM how to
                  > create a pinch pot!
                  >
                  > Although I've been teaching in middle school for the past seven
                  > years, I've successfully taught clay pinch pots to grades 2-12 by
                  > this method. We always have a LOT of time to decorate or alter our
                  > basic pots because, having had that intense practice in the
                  > beginning, the kids form their basic pots very well the first time!
                  > They love it--so do I!
                  >
                  > THOUGHT TWO: I like to have the students make ocarinas from their
                  > pinch pots ... There are several ways to do that, but I like to make
                  > birds by flattening in one pinch pot. I cannot find the ULR to the
                  > site that has these directions right now. If someone wants, I'll
                  > post it when I find it.
                  > Another way to create an ocarina in animal forms is by joining two
                  > pinch pots of similar size. <<http://www.carousel-
                  > music.com/nf/ocarinasnf.html>>
                  > <<http://www.green.ltd.uk/ocarina>>
                  > <<http://www.friendsoffreedom.com/Crafts/Ocarinas/OcarinaPg.html>>
                  >
                  > Blessings
                  > Doree
                  > § :~D)>+
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In art_education@yahoogroups.com, "mikellee31" <mikellee31@y...>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hi everyone, I am not new to the list, but I do not know if I have
                  > ever formally introduced
                  > > myself. I have been a secondary art teacher for the past 7 years
                  > and this year I have
                  > > switched to teaching 1st-5th elementary. I have about 540
                  > students. I see them once a
                  > > week for 1 hour for a total of 25 classes! I was a candidate for
                  > National Board Cert. but
                  > > after changing levels I decided that I am pretty much a first year
                  > teacher and I needed to
                  > > put that on hold, so I withdrew....
                  > >
                  > > I have had a lot of trouble with all sorts of things, but right
                  > now it is ceramics. I have
                  > > always taught by teaching the vocab, the rules, and the techniques
                  > and then allowing
                  > > studio after some planning on the part of the students. Today was
                  > my first day trying clay
                  > > with the kids and I tried coil with some classes and pinch pots
                  > with some....they all looked
                  > > horrible!! Not in the kids cool type of horrible, but in the
                  > completely not getting it at all
                  > > type of horrible!
                  > >
                  > > I noticed that at the beginning of the year the kids were asking
                  > me to make specific thing
                  > > out of clay - like 4th grade wanted to make "turtles" because that
                  > is what the previous
                  > > teacher did with 4th grade....and 5th grade wanted to make food. I
                  > just don't quite know
                  > > what is the best way to approach teaching this age and I am not
                  > feeling too good about
                  > > saying " we are all making dogs" or something like that- However
                  > they don't seem to be
                  > > responding too well to open ended assignments. Any advice on how
                  > to structure? It seems
                  > > like I am stuck between process and product and lack of time to
                  > have enough process to
                  > > develop a product- ha ha! - Any help on or off topic on or off
                  > list is welcome.
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                  >
                  > 〓 Visit your group "art_education" on the web.
                  >
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                  > art_education-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
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                  >
                  >


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