Helping students find their own ideas - a good read (long post)
- Greetings Art Educators,
I wish I had "met" Marvin Bartel earlier in my teaching career. I
changed the way I verbally taught lessons starting fall 1994 - but
still wrote them the same way for administrators. I didn't have time
to write down everything I told students! I provided the materials,
but encouraged them to go beyond my simple demonstration (Like I did
in my own art when I was taught a "lesson" in grad school. I followed
all of the requirements of the lesson - but did my own thing and
excelled! It was the meaning I put into my art works that got me the
grade in all but one class - but I don't care about that first class.
I accept my B grade for "poor composition skills" and being "too
narrative". I never got a critique like that again!).
To share these ideas, I need to go back to the beginning of the
beginning of the thread. I did get permission to post their ideas (I
respect copyright and ask all of you to do the same....When you post a
reply to the list, include the essentials of the original post and
also include the original member's name - so all know the source of
the ideas that are shared).
These posts were shared on TAB Yahoo List (Teaching for Artistic
Behavior). I know about Choice Art Education - but TAB cam about after
I retired and I learned about it through Knowledge Loom (no longer on
line?) - through Dr. Craig Roland's post to Getty List.
From Francis Rice (Francis, I know I have your permission already -
I asked the wrong person for this message. Her link may not work.
I don't "Twitter" so I didn't check that)
> Hi, I just thought I'd poke about on twitter when I stumbled onto thisHere is the wise "Art Ed Guru" Dr. Marvin Bartel's response:
> Check out this awesome @Artsonia artist statement my 4th grader wrote
> about her #art on her own from home http://bit.ly/Y2lzBP #eduwin
> I initially interpreted that this tweet meant that a student had
> created artwork on her own at home and written an artist statement. When I
> followed the link I was surprised by what the student wrote:
> This artwork is named City Silhouette. My favorite part of my artwork is
> the trees that are ink that we used straws to blow all the ink over the
> paper. We used Sharpies to make creepy curves on the trees. The inspiration
> for this piece would be the Fall skies and the windows lit up on houses
> that I see during the night. I am suprised how creative I was with the
> windows without copying any of anyone else's ideas. I also love the
> backround that we painted and the whole idea that my art teacher Mrs.
> Tiedemann came up with. Without her amazing abilities my pieces would not
> be able to come out this great. I would like to thank her for that.
> I was surprised when I read this student's artist statement, because it
> was not about art she had created on her own at home. It was about a
> directed lesson from class. I realized the teacher was happy the student
> took the trouble to write an artist statement at home as it showed
> reflective thinking and interest in the class project. She was proud of how
> her windows were unique. Think how proud she would have been if the
> process had been more self directed, even if inspired by another artist
> (because frankly we don't live in a vacuum and are receiving input 24/7)!
> But what if the teacher had demoed blowing ink with a straw and then
> asked, How do you think you might use this technique? Or what if she had
> asked, "Can you think of any other ways of applying or spreading ink on
> paper?" I wonder what novel ideas and unusual methods would have been
> discovered and shared!
> I once read that when children color in coloring books it actually sends a
> subliminal message that they aren't capable of drawing well on their own.
> This student has just said that she could not make great art without the
> teacher. What will this student do when she no longer has a teacher as a
> crutch? That is why what we are doing in promoting artistic behavior is so
> empowering. Students are learning how to find their own ideas, they are
> encouraged to explore materials, and they are intrinsically motivated to
> engage and persist.
> Frances Rice
I wholeheartedly agree with your very insightful conclusions. Thank you.
Telling (direct instruction) by teachers is an educational plague. Teachers
who tell (as I am doing right now), can make students feel dependent on
instructions and suggestions. We are infinitely more helpful if we help
students independently see and care about things that need to be expressed
evocatively (as you did with your post).
When we make suggestions, we are giving answers, we encourage lazy minds
and learned helplessness. On the other hand, when we ask authentically
open-ended questions (the inquiry method), we help students become better
thinkers. Choice-based instruction questions do not have yes/no answers or
other single-answer responses. The inquiry method does not use questions in
the manner of a test. Questions are used to motivate intrinsic wondering.
We can wonder whether they might consider answering with their artwork.
When we use open-ended questions (questions with many answers) we help
encourage divergent thinking and creativity. When we make a suggestion, we
promote a mindset of dependency on experts. If we use open-ended questions,
we can coach wondering and awareness about color effects, about line
character, about all kinds of aesthetic theory, about observations, about
feelings, about past experiences and memories, and so on and on and on.
The questions depend what age and readiness, but I am often surprised at
how much kids improve their artwork when they make the effort to consider
some alternatives on their own. I have seen teachers stop the whole class
to ask these questions without expecting verbal answers. The work gets
better because new ideas are being tested. The most amazing outcome has
been that the students begin to self-question (on their own) as they work.
They learn that the strategies of inquiry and experimentation are rewarding
enough that they suspend some of their fear of the unknown in order to look
for new discoveries. This is learned creativity!
Dr. Marvin Bartel, retired
(From Judy D: Oh - now I wish I had saved an odd figure pot I made in
college - all altered wheel thrown pieces! Dr. Bartel would have loved
it! I sold it for $5 at my first Garage Sale. Check his Sky Table
image on home page. Dr. Bartel, we must be related after all --
To find more go to:
This is the post I got permission to post.... I only thought it was
what started the thread. I just read it today (silly me)
Looks like all of you have some searches to do to find Ali Benton's
Action Research topic that Ellyn replied to.
I did a TAB search for "out of the mouths of babes" - try it for
yourself and see what you find. Enter her name is the search (after
you join TAB list -- then email her personally - but never ask her for
her entire research paper. If she wants to share it, she will offer it
Ali, thanks for sharing your action research findings. I think as TAB teachers
we all find the diversity of needs that you have written about. Even as a
practicing artist and art-class-taker I too appreciate what I would call "a
challenge" offered by my instructor. However, I want to state that I don't think
the "tracers" and "coloring book" kids are being looked down upon, it is a
sustained practice that leads them to believe that this is all they can do that
is a bit frightening (teacher directed art is just the verbal form of this).
Does it have it's place? Sure but as teachers I think we need to think about how
we use it.
Why is it frightening? Well for one, in real life we are all presented with
challenges that we must solve by pulling out information from a vast store of
files in our brains and sometimes we are successful and sometimes not. This is
how life goes. Teaching students to be resilient, and resourceful are skills
they could use practice in and many of them are not getting this in other
classes or even outside of school. Teaching them that they may not always be
successful and that that is a good feeling to learn how to wrangle with is
important. I let my kids trace, I teach them to use it as a tool for learning
about something difficult that they are drawing. If you are stuck on a part,
trace it a few times and it can give your hand a sort of muscle memory for how
to draw it on your own. Instead of coloring book pages I let students photocopy
their own drawings to make multiples or use zentangle type doodling (which
looked cheap to me at first) some kids love the meditative feel of it and often
it leads to a freedom of thought for my more insecure students.
Thanks for bringing up these thoughts on coloring books and tracing. I have
learned over the years that it is part of my job to remain open in thought and
What do others think of this/
Thanks TAB Members! Warning Kathy, there may be more signing up. Be
sure to keep all "on topic" (big smile).
Wishing all a Joyous New Year!
Retired Art Teacher..... but still teaching, I guess?
P.S. This is the very last time I am apologizing for a post that was
too long to read. I am sure there are many who will understand.
Sometimes, answers are NOT short and NOT easy to write.