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Re: classroom management/principal

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  • pent19
    YES! I moved to an elementary school my 3rd year of teaching (aka my tenure year). My principal got on me about my classroom mangement (granted i needed to
    Message 1 of 17 , Oct 31, 2010
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      YES! I moved to an elementary school my 3rd year of teaching (aka my tenure year). My principal got on me about my classroom mangement (granted i needed to learn 475 students names as well). I opted for tables, previous teacher had rows of desk (those poor custodiains!). I call my room controlled chaos. I give the students alot of repsonsiblilty in the art room.They get their supplies, have jobs and are out of their seats doing what they need to during work time. They also chat during work time. They sit and listen quite well during demos though! Since my principal was a former classroom teacher she doesn't see how this is the only way an art room works. This is not a math class, this is not a lecture, this is the art room and I have 40 minutes to demo, have them work and clean up. I have rearranged my tables a few times. I started with a circle shape with kids only on one side, but i would end up demo-ing upside down alot and the kids on the other side of the room seemed really far away. I now have 4-6 students at a table(s). and this seems to work the best. I have seating charts too so i can control the behaviors of some students better. Your back will be to students some times unless you seat you students accordingly.
      I also assign jobs by seat colors so that helps control clean-up chaos. It still looks like a mad house, but everyone has one thing to do to help with clean-up.
      Hope this helps
      Michele ny
      Good luck
      --- In art_education@yahoogroups.com, "angelamayharris" <
    • Misty Burright
      Something you could do is research studio thinking . I just purchased a great book: Studio Thinking Framework. Ground your response to administration in
      Message 2 of 17 , Oct 31, 2010
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        Something you could do is research "studio thinking".  I just purchased a great book:  Studio Thinking Framework.  Ground your response to administration in research and this is a great source.  If students are acting mischeiviously, perhaps a round of character education is in order to study.  "What does working in the art room look like and sound like?"  "What are good reasons to be doing...whatever..?"  

        I have a "loud" classroom, but students are on task.  Looking in to different room arrangements might be ok..  after you've done your research, you may not choose a u-shape, but you may find something you like better.  This will show your principal you are willing to think systematically about your practice, you are a learner.  You are taking a suggestion, researching possible solutions, applying it to your classroom and will later evaluate.  The cycle continues until you find what you are looking for.  If you completely disagree with you principal, I encourage you to open communication.  Ask for specific examples of what made her/him suggest that.  There is some research out there on "proper room arrangement".  

        Another suggestion could be to video tape the class.  You'll see a new perspective and might find a solution through that route.

        On Oct 30, 2010, at 9:46 PM, angelamayharris wrote:

         

        I like my class a little "loose." During certain lessons, I don't mind if kids get their own supplies as needed. They don't just have to raise their hands. I might never see them otherwise. It works for me. It doesn't work for my principal. I'm having a hard time with this. I feel like its a difference in teaching style, rather than a classroom management problem. Does anyone else have this issue? I'm not sure what to do.

        Oh, she also mentioned how I have my tables arranged, because there are times when my back is to students while I'm helping others. She mentioned having the tables in a u-shape with all of the students on one side of the table. The tables aren't that big, so I would need 4 kids on each side of the table in some classes. This kind of blows my mind, because I've never had anyone mention a problem with how I had my class arranged. Any suggestions on this?


        *******
        This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the St. Joseph School District or the entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager and delete this message immediately. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not distribute or copy this e-mail.

      • aliteachesart
        If that was her only suggestion- bravo! Supervisors follow the model of always suggesting what to work on. Sometimes its hard to take it as constructive
        Message 3 of 17 , Nov 1, 2010
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          If that was her only suggestion- bravo! Supervisors follow the model of always suggesting what to work on. Sometimes its hard to take it as constructive criticism. Doing action research on what works best in your class is a great suggestion. Try her way, try your way, try some other things too. And ask the kids what they think would work best. Make sure she knows you followed her suggestion though, even if it is only for a few days to observe the flow. ALi k-4
        • Steph Walkley
          ... Who is the author of this book you mention? Studio Thinking Framework............
          Message 4 of 17 , Nov 1, 2010
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            On 10/31/2010 9:04 PM, Misty Burright wrote:  

            Something you could do is research "studio thinking".  I just purchased a great book:  Studio Thinking Framework.  Ground your response to administration in research and this is a great source.  If students are acting mischeiviously, perhaps a round of character education is in order to study.  "What does working in the art room look like and sound like?"  "What are good reasons to be doing...whatever..?"  


            I have a "loud" classroom, but students are on task.  Looking in to different room arrangements might be ok..  after you've done your research, you may not choose a u-shape, but you may find something you like better.  This will show your principal you are willing to think systematically about your practice, you are a learner.  You are taking a suggestion, researching possible solutions, applying it to your classroom and will later evaluate.  The cycle continues until you find what you are looking for.  If you completely disagree with you principal, I encourage you to open communication.  Ask for specific examples of what made her/him suggest that.  There is some research out there on "proper room arrangement".  

            Another suggestion could be to video tape the class.  You'll see a new perspective and might find a solution through that route.

            On Oct 30, 2010, at 9:46 PM, angelamayharris wrote:

             

            I like my class a little "loose." During certain lessons, I don't mind if kids get their own supplies as needed. They don't just have to raise their hands. I might never see them otherwise. It works for me. It doesn't work for my principal. I'm having a hard time with this. I feel like its a difference in teaching style, rather than a classroom management problem. Does anyone else have this issue? I'm not sure what to do.

            Oh, she also mentioned how I have my tables arranged, because there are times when my back is to students while I'm helping others. She mentioned having the tables in a u-shape with all of the students on one side of the table. The tables aren't that big, so I would need 4 kids on each side of the table in some classes. This kind of blows my mind, because I've never had anyone mention a problem with how I had my class arranged. Any suggestions on this?


            *******
            This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the St. Joseph School District or the entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager and delete this message immediately. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not distribute or copy this e-mail.

            Who is the author of this book you mention?  Studio Thinking Framework............
          • Misty Burright
            Sorry! The title is only Studio Thinking.. we received professional development from some supporters referring to it as a framework ..whoopsy:) Below I
            Message 5 of 17 , Nov 1, 2010
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              Sorry!  The title is only Studio Thinking.. we received professional development from some supporters referring to it as a "framework"..whoopsy:)  Below I copied the link on Amazon and links to other resources using Studio Thinking...I'm just beginning my journey with this book, but I first began by studying Artful Thinking--A Harvard Research Project.. It is basically a collection of strategies for looking at artwork..excellent resource and this one is free to download from their website:)  It's the last link...Both programs are Harvard research studies under the guise of "Project Zero"...enjoy!




              www.artiseducation.org/downloads/StudioThinkingFramework.pdf 



              On Nov 1, 2010, at 9:46 PM, Steph Walkley wrote:

               

              On 10/31/2010 9:04 PM, Misty Burright wrote:

               

              Something you could do is research "studio thinking".  I just purchased a great book:  Studio Thinking Framework.  Ground your response to administration in research and this is a great source.  If students are acting mischeiviously, perhaps a round of character education is in order to study.  "What does working in the art room look like and sound like?"  "What are good reasons to be doing...whatever..?"  


              I have a "loud" classroom, but students are on task.  Looking in to different room arrangements might be ok..  after you've done your research, you may not choose a u-shape, but you may find something you like better.  This will show your principal you are willing to think systematically about your practice, you are a learner.  You are taking a suggestion, researching possible solutions, applying it to your classroom and will later evaluate.  The cycle continues until you find what you are looking for.  If you completely disagree with you principal, I encourage you to open communication.  Ask for specific examples of what made her/him suggest that.  There is some research out there on "proper room arrangement".  

              Another suggestion could be to video tape the class.  You'll see a new perspective and might find a solution through that route.

              On Oct 30, 2010, at 9:46 PM, angelamayharris wrote:

               

              I like my class a little "loose." During certain lessons, I don't mind if kids get their own supplies as needed. They don't just have to raise their hands. I might never see them otherwise. It works for me. It doesn't work for my principal. I'm having a hard time with this. I feel like its a difference in teaching style, rather than a classroom management problem. Does anyone else have this issue? I'm not sure what to do.

              Oh, she also mentioned how I have my tables arranged, because there are times when my back is to students while I'm helping others. She mentioned having the tables in a u-shape with all of the students on one side of the table. The tables aren't that big, so I would need 4 kids on each side of the table in some classes. This kind of blows my mind, because I've never had anyone mention a problem with how I had my class arranged. Any suggestions on this?


              *******
              This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the St. Joseph School District or the entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager and delete this message immediately. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not distribute or copy this e-mail.

              Who is the author of this book you mention?  Studio Thinking Framework............


              *******
              This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the St. Joseph School District or the entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager and delete this message immediately. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not distribute or copy this e-mail.

            • Greg Percy
              Principals---hmmm---a bit of a sore point at times---I set my tables against the walls around the room and have one or two in the middle---The kids that love
              Message 6 of 17 , Nov 1, 2010
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                Principals---hmmm---a bit of a sore point at times---I set my tables against the walls around the room and have one or two in the middle---The kids that love an audience get to sit basically facing the wall-keeps them a little more in line when they have less stimulation to look at...A U shape allows them to see everyone---now way you can see everyone and work with an individual no matter what the set up---My class is loud too-but they're working (most of the time anyway)  SOunds like your principal is trying to retrofit "regular" classroom ideas into art--which rarely works-

                Greg Percy

                On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 9:46 PM, Steph Walkley <swalkley@...> wrote:
                 

                On 10/31/2010 9:04 PM, Misty Burright wrote:

                 

                Something you could do is research "studio thinking".  I just purchased a great book:  Studio Thinking Framework.  Ground your response to administration in research and this is a great source.  If students are acting mischeiviously, perhaps a round of character education is in order to study.  "What does working in the art room look like and sound like?"  "What are good reasons to be doing...whatever..?"  


                I have a "loud" classroom, but students are on task.  Looking in to different room arrangements might be ok..  after you've done your research, you may not choose a u-shape, but you may find something you like better.  This will show your principal you are willing to think systematically about your practice, you are a learner.  You are taking a suggestion, researching possible solutions, applying it to your classroom and will later evaluate.  The cycle continues until you find what you are looking for.  If you completely disagree with you principal, I encourage you to open communication.  Ask for specific examples of what made her/him suggest that.  There is some research out there on "proper room arrangement".  

                Another suggestion could be to video tape the class.  You'll see a new perspective and might find a solution through that route.

                On Oct 30, 2010, at 9:46 PM, angelamayharris wrote:

                 

                I like my class a little "loose." During certain lessons, I don't mind if kids get their own supplies as needed. They don't just have to raise their hands. I might never see them otherwise. It works for me. It doesn't work for my principal. I'm having a hard time with this. I feel like its a difference in teaching style, rather than a classroom management problem. Does anyone else have this issue? I'm not sure what to do.

                Oh, she also mentioned how I have my tables arranged, because there are times when my back is to students while I'm helping others. She mentioned having the tables in a u-shape with all of the students on one side of the table. The tables aren't that big, so I would need 4 kids on each side of the table in some classes. This kind of blows my mind, because I've never had anyone mention a problem with how I had my class arranged. Any suggestions on this?


                *******
                This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the St. Joseph School District or the entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager and delete this message immediately. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not distribute or copy this e-mail.

                Who is the author of this book you mention?  Studio Thinking Framework............




                --
                Greg Percy
                Whitehorse MS Visual Arts
                Get my CDs 
                "Songs in the Key of Art" Volumes 1-5

              • Misty Burright
                Alright---...one of the links say it s forbidden ... here s how to beat the system to get to the PDF: First, Google: Studio Thinking Framework Then, The
                Message 7 of 17 , Nov 1, 2010
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                  Alright---...one of the links say it's "forbidden"... here's how to "beat the system" to get to the PDF:

                  First, Google:  Studio Thinking Framework
                  Then, The 4th or 5th result of the search should be "Introducing the Studio Thinking Framework in Alemeda County" 


                  Misty
                  On Nov 1, 2010, at 9:46 PM, Steph Walkley wrote:

                   

                  On 10/31/2010 9:04 PM, Misty Burright wrote:

                   

                  Something you could do is research "studio thinking".  I just purchased a great book:  Studio Thinking Framework.  Ground your response to administration in research and this is a great source.  If students are acting mischeiviously, perhaps a round of character education is in order to study.  "What does working in the art room look like and sound like?"  "What are good reasons to be doing...whatever..?"  


                  I have a "loud" classroom, but students are on task.  Looking in to different room arrangements might be ok..  after you've done your research, you may not choose a u-shape, but you may find something you like better.  This will show your principal you are willing to think systematically about your practice, you are a learner.  You are taking a suggestion, researching possible solutions, applying it to your classroom and will later evaluate.  The cycle continues until you find what you are looking for.  If you completely disagree with you principal, I encourage you to open communication.  Ask for specific examples of what made her/him suggest that.  There is some research out there on "proper room arrangement".  

                  Another suggestion could be to video tape the class.  You'll see a new perspective and might find a solution through that route.

                  On Oct 30, 2010, at 9:46 PM, angelamayharris wrote:

                   

                  I like my class a little "loose." During certain lessons, I don't mind if kids get their own supplies as needed. They don't just have to raise their hands. I might never see them otherwise. It works for me. It doesn't work for my principal. I'm having a hard time with this. I feel like its a difference in teaching style, rather than a classroom management problem. Does anyone else have this issue? I'm not sure what to do.

                  Oh, she also mentioned how I have my tables arranged, because there are times when my back is to students while I'm helping others. She mentioned having the tables in a u-shape with all of the students on one side of the table. The tables aren't that big, so I would need 4 kids on each side of the table in some classes. This kind of blows my mind, because I've never had anyone mention a problem with how I had my class arranged. Any suggestions on this?


                  *******
                  This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the St. Joseph School District or the entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager and delete this message immediately. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not distribute or copy this e-mail.

                  Who is the author of this book you mention?  Studio Thinking Framework............


                  *******
                  This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the St. Joseph School District or the entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager and delete this message immediately. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not distribute or copy this e-mail.

                • angelamayharris
                  Thank you everyone for the suggestions/empathy. I think I have a book on studio thinking. I will look it up. And no, these were not her only suggestions. I was
                  Message 8 of 17 , Nov 2, 2010
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                    Thank you everyone for the suggestions/empathy.

                    I think I have a book on studio thinking. I will look it up.

                    And no, these were not her only suggestions. I was slammed, most of which pertained to classroom management. This is my 6th year of teaching elementary art, but I've stayed home with my children for the past few years. So, first year in this school system. My principal was previously a middle school math teacher. Another suggestion was that I give students a model completed project so they would know EXACTLY what to do.


                    --- In art_education@yahoogroups.com, Greg Percy <gpercy@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Principals---hmmm---a bit of a sore point at times---I set my tables against
                    > the walls around the room and have one or two in the middle---The kids that
                    > love an audience get to sit basically facing the wall-keeps them a little
                    > more in line when they have less stimulation to look at...A U shape allows
                    > them to see everyone---now way you can see everyone and work with an
                    > individual no matter what the set up---My class is loud too-but they're
                    > working (most of the time anyway) SOunds like your principal is trying to
                    > retrofit "regular" classroom ideas into art--which rarely works-
                    >
                    > Greg Percy
                    >
                    > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 9:46 PM, Steph Walkley <swalkley@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > On 10/31/2010 9:04 PM, Misty Burright wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Something you could do is research "studio thinking". I just purchased a
                    > > great book: Studio Thinking Framework. Ground your response to
                    > > administration in research and this is a great source. If students are
                    > > acting mischeiviously, perhaps a round of character education is in order to
                    > > study. "What does working in the art room look like and sound like?" "What
                    > > are good reasons to be doing...whatever..?"
                    > >
                    > > I have a "loud" classroom, but students are on task. Looking in to
                    > > different room arrangements might be ok.. after you've done your research,
                    > > you may not choose a u-shape, but you may find something you like better.
                    > > This will show your principal you are willing to think systematically about
                    > > your practice, you are a learner. You are taking a suggestion, researching
                    > > possible solutions, applying it to your classroom and will later evaluate.
                    > > The cycle continues until you find what you are looking for. If you
                    > > completely disagree with you principal, I encourage you to open
                    > > communication. Ask for specific examples of what made her/him suggest that.
                    > > There is some research out there on "proper room arrangement".
                    > >
                    > > Another suggestion could be to video tape the class. You'll see a new
                    > > perspective and might find a solution through that route.
                    > >
                    > > On Oct 30, 2010, at 9:46 PM, angelamayharris wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > I like my class a little "loose." During certain lessons, I don't mind if
                    > > kids get their own supplies as needed. They don't just have to raise their
                    > > hands. I might never see them otherwise. It works for me. It doesn't work
                    > > for my principal. I'm having a hard time with this. I feel like its a
                    > > difference in teaching style, rather than a classroom management problem.
                    > > Does anyone else have this issue? I'm not sure what to do.
                    > >
                    > > Oh, she also mentioned how I have my tables arranged, because there are
                    > > times when my back is to students while I'm helping others. She mentioned
                    > > having the tables in a u-shape with all of the students on one side of the
                    > > table. The tables aren't that big, so I would need 4 kids on each side of
                    > > the table in some classes. This kind of blows my mind, because I've never
                    > > had anyone mention a problem with how I had my class arranged. Any
                    > > suggestions on this?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > *******
                    > > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
                    > > solely for the use of the St. Joseph School District or the entity to whom
                    > > they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
                    > > the system manager and delete this message immediately. This message
                    > > contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual
                    > > named. If you are not the named addressee you should not distribute or copy
                    > > this e-mail.
                    > >
                    > > Who is the author of this book you mention? Studio Thinking
                    > > Framework............
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > *Greg Percy*
                    > Whitehorse MS Visual Arts
                    > Get my CDs
                    > "Songs in the Key of Art" Volumes 1-5
                    > http://www.songsinthekeyofart.com
                    >
                  • Misty Burright
                    Ummm.. Seven Strategies of Assessment for Learning says you need to use strong AND weak student examples to further explain the expected objectives. You may
                    Message 9 of 17 , Nov 2, 2010
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                      Ummm.. Seven Strategies of Assessment for Learning says you need to use strong AND weak student examples to further explain the expected objectives.  You may not have those now if this is your first year back.  But, be thinking about that as you pass papers back so you can save them for next year.  I always feel funny about taking or asking for student work until I find their work in the trash!  Some easy ones I save are ones that have moved.  And sometimes I just say I need an example for next year if anyone want sot donate it and I get some that way too.. Sounds like their may be a bit of a personality conflict as well.  A typical characteristic of some teachers is there is ONE way to do it, when there so is not.  Open up communication with other art teachers in your district or use an instructional coach if you have one available for the room arrangement piece.

                      Misty
                      On Nov 2, 2010, at 7:53 AM, angelamayharris wrote:

                       

                      Thank you everyone for the suggestions/empathy.

                      I think I have a book on studio thinking. I will look it up.

                      And no, these were not her only suggestions. I was slammed, most of which pertained to classroom management. This is my 6th year of teaching elementary art, but I've stayed home with my children for the past few years. So, first year in this school system. My principal was previously a middle school math teacher. Another suggestion was that I give students a model completed project so they would know EXACTLY what to do.

                      --- In art_education@yahoogroups.com, Greg Percy <gpercy@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Principals---hmmm---a bit of a sore point at times---I set my tables against
                      > the walls around the room and have one or two in the middle---The kids that
                      > love an audience get to sit basically facing the wall-keeps them a little
                      > more in line when they have less stimulation to look at...A U shape allows
                      > them to see everyone---now way you can see everyone and work with an
                      > individual no matter what the set up---My class is loud too-but they're
                      > working (most of the time anyway) SOunds like your principal is trying to
                      > retrofit "regular" classroom ideas into art--which rarely works-
                      >
                      > Greg Percy
                      >
                      > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 9:46 PM, Steph Walkley <swalkley@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > On 10/31/2010 9:04 PM, Misty Burright wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Something you could do is research "studio thinking". I just purchased a
                      > > great book: Studio Thinking Framework. Ground your response to
                      > > administration in research and this is a great source. If students are
                      > > acting mischeiviously, perhaps a round of character education is in order to
                      > > study. "What does working in the art room look like and sound like?" "What
                      > > are good reasons to be doing...whatever..?"
                      > >
                      > > I have a "loud" classroom, but students are on task. Looking in to
                      > > different room arrangements might be ok.. after you've done your research,
                      > > you may not choose a u-shape, but you may find something you like better.
                      > > This will show your principal you are willing to think systematically about
                      > > your practice, you are a learner. You are taking a suggestion, researching
                      > > possible solutions, applying it to your classroom and will later evaluate.
                      > > The cycle continues until you find what you are looking for. If you
                      > > completely disagree with you principal, I encourage you to open
                      > > communication. Ask for specific examples of what made her/him suggest that.
                      > > There is some research out there on "proper room arrangement".
                      > >
                      > > Another suggestion could be to video tape the class. You'll see a new
                      > > perspective and might find a solution through that route.
                      > >
                      > > On Oct 30, 2010, at 9:46 PM, angelamayharris wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > I like my class a little "loose." During certain lessons, I don't mind if
                      > > kids get their own supplies as needed. They don't just have to raise their
                      > > hands. I might never see them otherwise. It works for me. It doesn't work
                      > > for my principal. I'm having a hard time with this. I feel like its a
                      > > difference in teaching style, rather than a classroom management problem.
                      > > Does anyone else have this issue? I'm not sure what to do.
                      > >
                      > > Oh, she also mentioned how I have my tables arranged, because there are
                      > > times when my back is to students while I'm helping others. She mentioned
                      > > having the tables in a u-shape with all of the students on one side of the
                      > > table. The tables aren't that big, so I would need 4 kids on each side of
                      > > the table in some classes. This kind of blows my mind, because I've never
                      > > had anyone mention a problem with how I had my class arranged. Any
                      > > suggestions on this?
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > *******
                      > > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
                      > > solely for the use of the St. Joseph School District or the entity to whom
                      > > they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
                      > > the system manager and delete this message immediately. This message
                      > > contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual
                      > > named. If you are not the named addressee you should not distribute or copy
                      > > this e-mail.
                      > >
                      > > Who is the author of this book you mention? Studio Thinking
                      > > Framework............
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --
                      > *Greg Percy*
                      > Whitehorse MS Visual Arts
                      > Get my CDs
                      > "Songs in the Key of Art" Volumes 1-5
                      > http://www.songsinthekeyofart.com
                      >


                      *******
                      This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the St. Joseph School District or the entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager and delete this message immediately. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not distribute or copy this e-mail.

                    • Julie Jacobusse
                      It could be worse...to make you feel better our art program was cut to every other week this school year, they displaced 14 art teachers into the
                      Message 10 of 17 , Nov 2, 2010
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                        It could be worse...to make you feel better our art program was cut to every other week this school year, they displaced 14 art teachers into the classrooms...at the last minute they offered me an art position but I would be at one school one week and another school another week and one of the schools would be about another 20 minutes south of where I currently was and I already drive an hour to my job.  After hearing they may cut art altogether the next school year and after talking to my husband we decided it would be best for me to take the 2nd grade assignment I was offered at the school I taught art at...what a mistake...it has been a hard transition for me after teaching art the last 5 years and now my first year teaching 2nd grade it has almost like having a 2nd first year...my principal has been very hard on me and not very supportive saying as an art teacher I was "piggy backing" on the classroom mgmt of the classroom teachers, and I am in my first time of teaching experience being placed on a teacher development plan-and got poor observation from her I always got S's when I taught art but now got several NI's...I should have stayed with my passion art, but was trying to be practical with the poor economy....  I am hoping this will be a good learning experience for me and I can get back to art soon.

                        In my perspective since I taught art with choice I learned to be more flexible and had a looser form of classroom mgmt because I wanted the students to be creative and be allowed to express themselves.  Now in order to meet the standards driven classroom I have to re-learn and be more firm.  It has been a stretch for me.  Guess again like I said even though it would have been over an hour drive and I would have been at 2 schools I should have stayed with art.  My bag.  Now I have to step through and deal with what I dealt for myself.  Sigh!!

                        Julie in Atlanta




                      • Kathleen Maledon
                        I just have to smile at the discrepancy between teacher and principal.... I knew I was in trouble when I first went in the principal s office and his desk was
                        Message 11 of 17 , Nov 2, 2010
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                          I just have to smile at the discrepancy between teacher and principal....
                          I knew I was in trouble when I first went in the principal's office and his desk was completely clean
                          except for my eval.  "no boxes of materials on the floor."
                          I explained that if the boxes were on the counters, the little kids couldn't select
                          their own fabrics; they couldn't reach.  He won all those arguments, but I,
                          at least, put up the good fight.  Whatcha' gonna do?  I like organization a lot!,
                          but how do you organize discrepant crap?   the answer....the best you can.
                          keep smiling. k
                          On Nov 2, 2010, at 5:53 AM, angelamayharris wrote:

                          Thank you everyone for the suggestions/empathy. 

                          I think I have a book on studio thinking. I will look it up. 

                          And no, these were not her only suggestions. I was slammed, most of which pertained to classroom management. This is my 6th year of teaching elementary art, but I've stayed home with my children for the past few years. So, first year in this school system. My principal was previously a middle school math teacher. Another suggestion was that I give students a model completed project so they would know EXACTLY what to do. 

                          --- In art_education@yahoogroups.com, Greg Percy <gpercy@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Principals---hmmm---a bit of a sore point at times---I set my tables against
                          > the walls around the room and have one or two in the middle---The kids that
                          > love an audience get to sit basically facing the wall-keeps them a little
                          > more in line when they have less stimulation to look at...A U shape allows
                          > them to see everyone---now way you can see everyone and work with an
                          > individual no matter what the set up---My class is loud too-but they're
                          > working (most of the time anyway) SOunds like your principal is trying to
                          > retrofit "regular" classroom ideas into art--which rarely works-
                          > 
                          > Greg Percy
                          > 
                          > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 9:46 PM, Steph Walkley <swalkley@...> wrote:
                          > 
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > On 10/31/2010 9:04 PM, Misty Burright wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Something you could do is research "studio thinking". I just purchased a
                          > > great book: Studio Thinking Framework. Ground your response to
                          > > administration in research and this is a great source. If students are
                          > > acting mischeiviously, perhaps a round of character education is in order to
                          > > study. "What does working in the art room look like and sound like?" "What
                          > > are good reasons to be doing...whatever..?"
                          > >
                          > > I have a "loud" classroom, but students are on task. Looking in to
                          > > different room arrangements might be ok.. after you've done your research,
                          > > you may not choose a u-shape, but you may find something you like better.
                          > > This will show your principal you are willing to think systematically about
                          > > your practice, you are a learner. You are taking a suggestion, researching
                          > > possible solutions, applying it to your classroom and will later evaluate.
                          > > The cycle continues until you find what you are looking for. If you
                          > > completely disagree with you principal, I encourage you to open
                          > > communication. Ask for specific examples of what made her/him suggest that.
                          > > There is some research out there on "proper room arrangement".
                          > >
                          > > Another suggestion could be to video tape the class. You'll see a new
                          > > perspective and might find a solution through that route.
                          > >
                          > > On Oct 30, 2010, at 9:46 PM, angelamayharris wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > I like my class a little "loose." During certain lessons, I don't mind if
                          > > kids get their own supplies as needed. They don't just have to raise their
                          > > hands. I might never see them otherwise. It works for me. It doesn't work
                          > > for my principal. I'm having a hard time with this. I feel like its a
                          > > difference in teaching style, rather than a classroom management problem.
                          > > Does anyone else have this issue? I'm not sure what to do.
                          > >
                          > > Oh, she also mentioned how I have my tables arranged, because there are
                          > > times when my back is to students while I'm helping others. She mentioned
                          > > having the tables in a u-shape with all of the students on one side of the
                          > > table. The tables aren't that big, so I would need 4 kids on each side of
                          > > the table in some classes. This kind of blows my mind, because I've never
                          > > had anyone mention a problem with how I had my class arranged. Any
                          > > suggestions on this?
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > *******
                          > > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
                          > > solely for the use of the St. Joseph School District or the entity to whom
                          > > they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
                          > > the system manager and delete this message immediately. This message
                          > > contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual
                          > > named. If you are not the named addressee you should not distribute or copy
                          > > this e-mail.
                          > >
                          > > Who is the author of this book you mention? Studio Thinking
                          > > Framework............
                          > >
                          > > 
                          > >
                          > 
                          > 
                          > 
                          > -- 
                          > *Greg Percy*
                          > Whitehorse MS Visual Arts
                          > Get my CDs
                          > "Songs in the Key of Art" Volumes 1-5
                          > http://www.songsinthekeyofart.com
                          >


                        • Misty Burright
                          That is awful, Julie! Depending on your situation, you could research state requirements for art education across the us. I live in Missouri and it is a
                          Message 12 of 17 , Nov 2, 2010
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                            That is awful, Julie!  Depending on your situation, you could research state requirements for art education across the us.  I live in Missouri and it is a state requirement that every elementary student receive 50 minutes of art per week.  That requirement saved our jobs...  I am curious though about how classroom teachers are receiving planning time if art is only provided every other week?  

                            In our neighboring state of Kansas, there are no requirements.  My nieces live there and didn't have their first art class until 7th grade!  Depending on your situation, you could relocate to a more secure state..

                            Misty
                            On Nov 2, 2010, at 7:31 PM, Julie Jacobusse wrote:

                             

                            It could be worse...to make you feel better our art program was cut to every other week this school year, they displaced 14 art teachers into the classrooms...at the last minute they offered me an art position but I would be at one school one week and another school another week and one of the schools would be about another 20 minutes south of where I currently was and I already drive an hour to my job.  After hearing they may cut art altogether the next school year and after talking to my husband we decided it would be best for me to take the 2nd grade assignment I was offered at the school I taught art at...what a mistake...it has been a hard transition for me after teaching art the last 5 years and now my first year teaching 2nd grade it has almost like having a 2nd first year...my principal has been very hard on me and not very supportive saying as an art teacher I was "piggy backing" on the classroom mgmt of the classroom teachers, and I am in my first time of teaching experience being placed on a teacher development plan-and got poor observation from her I always got S's when I taught art but now got several NI's...I should have stayed with my passion art, but was trying to be practical with the poor economy....  I am hoping this will be a good learning experience for me and I can get back to art soon.

                            In my perspective since I taught art with choice I learned to be more flexible and had a looser form of classroom mgmt because I wanted the students to be creative and be allowed to express themselves.  Now in order to meet the standards driven classroom I have to re-learn and be more firm.  It has been a stretch for me.  Guess again like I said even though it would have been over an hour drive and I would have been at 2 schools I should have stayed with art.  My bag.  Now I have to step through and deal with what I dealt for myself.  Sigh!!

                            Julie in Atlanta





                            *******
                            This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the St. Joseph School District or the entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager and delete this message immediately. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not distribute or copy this e-mail.

                          • Julie Jacobusse
                            Misty-Thanks I will have to check into the GA state requirements for art...I believe art is county funded only PE is secured by the state-but I will have to
                            Message 13 of 17 , Nov 3, 2010
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                              Misty-Thanks I will have to check into the GA state requirements for
                              art...I believe art is county funded only PE is secured by the state-but
                              I will have to see if there are requirements for art. I moved to
                              Georgia from Michigan for a teaching job over 5years ago-so not sure if
                              I am ready to move again but it is something I can keep in mind.


                              As far as planning classroom teachers only get 2-40 minute planning
                              times a week now-mainly during PE and during music/art (week A music,
                              week B art). Computer lab no longer has a teacher or para so we teach
                              it ourselves, media center we have to go with the class during the first
                              5 minutes and last 5 minutes and it is only for 30 minutes-most of the
                              time you have to stay with your class if they are not doing a
                              lesson...so I do not count media center time. I have to spend a lot of
                              my personal time-nights/weekends doing plans, grading papers, paperwork,
                              report cards, making copies, talking to parents/conferencing, doing
                              things in my room, etc. Makes for a hard year with little or no time to
                              get anything done. Plus I am on a learning curve this year. Yikes
                              makes it hard to be a teacher nowadays! :-)

                              People keep asking me if teaching a classroom grade level is harder than
                              teaching art...I tell them teaching art is a lot of work to do keeping
                              up with every students projects, preparing materials, planning for each
                              grade level, etc. But right now classroom with lack of planning time
                              makes it hard to do everything-not sure what is harder-but I do have
                              more respect for the classroom teachers.

                              ~Julie in Atlanta

                              From Misty-
                              "That is awful, Julie! Depending on your situation, you could research
                              state requirements for art education across the us. I live in Missouri
                              and it is a state requirement that every elementary student receive 50
                              minutes of art per week. That requirement saved our jobs... I am
                              curious though about how classroom teachers are receiving planning time
                              if art is only provided every other week?


                              In our neighboring state of Kansas, there are no requirements. My
                              nieces live there and didn't have their first art class until 7th grade!
                              Depending on your situation, you could relocate to a more secure state.."
                            • Kathleen Maledon
                              in Az, the classroom teachers can teach art (more like arts and crafts). the kids still have pe.
                              Message 14 of 17 , Nov 3, 2010
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                                in Az, the classroom teachers can teach 'art'   (more like arts and crafts).  the kids still have pe.
                                On Nov 2, 2010, at 6:41 PM, Misty Burright wrote:

                                That is awful, Julie!  Depending on your situation, you could research state requirements for art education across the us.  I live in Missouri and it is a state requirement that every elementary student receive 50 minutes of art per week.  That requirement saved our jobs...  I am curious though about how classroom teachers are receiving planning time if art is only provided every other week?  


                                In our neighboring state of Kansas, there are no requirements.  My nieces live there and didn't have their first art class until 7th grade!  Depending on your situation, you could relocate to a more secure state..

                                Misty
                                On Nov 2, 2010, at 7:31 PM, Julie Jacobusse wrote:

                                 

                                It could be worse...to make you feel better our art program was cut to every other week this school year, they displaced 14 art teachers into the classrooms...at the last minute they offered me an art position but I would be at one school one week and another school another week and one of the schools would be about another 20 minutes south of where I currently was and I already drive an hour to my job.  After hearing they may cut art altogether the next school year and after talking to my husband we decided it would be best for me to take the 2nd grade assignment I was offered at the school I taught art at...what a mistake...it has been a hard transition for me after teaching art the last 5 years and now my first year teaching 2nd grade it has almost like having a 2nd first year...my principal has been very hard on me and not very supportive saying as an art teacher I was "piggy backing" on the classroom mgmt of the classroom teachers, and I am in my first time of teaching experience being placed on a teacher development plan-and got poor observation from her I always got S's when I taught art but now got several NI's...I should have stayed with my passion art, but was trying to be practical with the poor economy....  I am hoping this will be a good learning experience for me and I can get back to art soon.

                                In my perspective since I taught art with choice I learned to be more flexible and had a looser form of classroom mgmt because I wanted the students to be creative and be allowed to express themselves.  Now in order to meet the standards driven classroom I have to re-learn and be more firm.  It has been a stretch for me.  Guess again like I said even though it would have been over an hour drive and I would have been at 2 schools I should have stayed with art.  My bag.  Now I have to step through and deal with what I dealt for myself.  Sigh!!

                                Julie in Atlanta





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                                This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the St. Joseph School District or the entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager and delete this message immediately. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not distribute or copy this e-mail.



                              • Misty Burright
                                Wow. Our teachers are spoiled here. I hate to even tell you this, but at my school teachers have 30 minutes each day, plus art for 50 minutes once a week,
                                Message 15 of 17 , Nov 3, 2010
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                                  Wow.  Our teachers are spoiled here.  I hate to even tell you this, but at my school teachers have 30 minutes each day, plus art for 50 minutes once a week, plus one day a week the grade level has 2 1/2 hours of collaboration time together.  Half of the time is very structured by our principal and half of the time is just planning together.  Personally I have 2 days without a break at all, but each Thursday I only have 3, 50 minute classes so I sort of save it all up to get things done then.  Missouri mandates a certain amount of "minutes per week" teachers must have for planning time.  My position is funded locally in within my school district, but likely because the state says it has to:)  

                                  I've often thought of going to the classroom and wonder if I could do it.  If I were in your situation I would have likely gone to the classroom as well just because of that.  Personally I realize it is different work (art room vs. classroom), but I have to say the classroom seems VERY stressful in this day and age of high stakes testing.  

                                  I know I have no answers, but just one word:  persevere.  The way you will persevere is to, basically, decide to.  You have cards stacked against you:  unfamiliar classroom territory, restructuring classroom procedures, pressure from administration.  As an artist you know "tragic" stories can result in beauty.  We've read about them as art historians and taught them to our students, now you are living in one and you have much control over the outcome, more than you think.  How will your story end?  Decide.  Then do it:)  Don't allow a personality conflict with an administrator change the course you have chosen for yourself.

                                  I wish you all the best:)

                                  Misty
                                  On Nov 3, 2010, at 7:39 PM, Julie Jacobusse wrote:

                                   

                                  Misty-Thanks I will have to check into the GA state requirements for
                                  art...I believe art is county funded only PE is secured by the state-but
                                  I will have to see if there are requirements for art. I moved to
                                  Georgia from Michigan for a teaching job over 5years ago-so not sure if
                                  I am ready to move again but it is something I can keep in mind.

                                  As far as planning classroom teachers only get 2-40 minute planning
                                  times a week now-mainly during PE and during music/art (week A music,
                                  week B art). Computer lab no longer has a teacher or para so we teach
                                  it ourselves, media center we have to go with the class during the first
                                  5 minutes and last 5 minutes and it is only for 30 minutes-most of the
                                  time you have to stay with your class if they are not doing a
                                  lesson...so I do not count media center time. I have to spend a lot of
                                  my personal time-nights/weekends doing plans, grading papers, paperwork,
                                  report cards, making copies, talking to parents/conferencing, doing
                                  things in my room, etc. Makes for a hard year with little or no time to
                                  get anything done. Plus I am on a learning curve this year. Yikes
                                  makes it hard to be a teacher nowadays! :-)

                                  People keep asking me if teaching a classroom grade level is harder than
                                  teaching art...I tell them teaching art is a lot of work to do keeping
                                  up with every students projects, preparing materials, planning for each
                                  grade level, etc. But right now classroom with lack of planning time
                                  makes it hard to do everything-not sure what is harder-but I do have
                                  more respect for the classroom teachers.

                                  ~Julie in Atlanta

                                  From Misty-
                                  "That is awful, Julie! Depending on your situation, you could research
                                  state requirements for art education across the us. I live in Missouri
                                  and it is a state requirement that every elementary student receive 50
                                  minutes of art per week. That requirement saved our jobs... I am
                                  curious though about how classroom teachers are receiving planning time
                                  if art is only provided every other week?

                                  In our neighboring state of Kansas, there are no requirements. My
                                  nieces live there and didn't have their first art class until 7th grade!
                                  Depending on your situation, you could relocate to a more secure state.."


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                                  This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the St. Joseph School District or the entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager and delete this message immediately. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not distribute or copy this e-mail.

                                • Steph Walkley
                                  ... yep AZ does some really foolish things.....teaching art for the 5th year in this insanely backwards state. I taught 12 years in Virginia.....I just bite
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Nov 4, 2010
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                                    On 11/3/2010 6:40 PM, Kathleen Maledon wrote:
                                     

                                    in Az, the classroom teachers can teach 'art'   (more like arts and crafts).  the kids still have pe.

                                    On Nov 2, 2010, at 6:41 PM, Misty Burright wrote:

                                    That is awful, Julie!  Depending on your situation, you could research state requirements for art education across the us.  I live in Missouri and it is a state requirement that every elementary student receive 50 minutes of art per week.  That requirement saved our jobs...  I am curious though about how classroom teachers are receiving planning time if art is only provided every other week?  


                                    In our neighboring state of Kansas, there are no requirements.  My nieces live there and didn't have their first art class until 7th grade!  Depending on your situation, you could relocate to a more secure state..

                                    Misty
                                    On Nov 2, 2010, at 7:31 PM, Julie Jacobusse wrote:

                                     

                                    It could be worse...to make you feel better our art program was cut to every other week this school year, they displaced 14 art teachers into the classrooms...at the last minute they offered me an art position but I would be at one school one week and another school another week and one of the schools would be about another 20 minutes south of where I currently was and I already drive an hour to my job.  After hearing they may cut art altogether the next school year and after talking to my husband we decided it would be best for me to take the 2nd grade assignment I was offered at the school I taught art at...what a mistake...it has been a hard transition for me after teaching art the last 5 years and now my first year teaching 2nd grade it has almost like having a 2nd first year...my principal has been very hard on me and not very supportive saying as an art teacher I was "piggy backing" on the classroom mgmt of the classroom teachers, and I am in my first time of teaching experience being placed on a teacher development plan-and got poor observation from her I always got S's when I taught art but now got several NI's...I should have stayed with my passion art, but was trying to be practical with the poor economy....  I am hoping this will be a good learning experience for me and I can get back to art soon.

                                    In my perspective since I taught art with choice I learned to be more flexible and had a looser form of classroom mgmt because I wanted the students to be creative and be allowed to express themselves.  Now in order to meet the standards driven classroom I have to re-learn and be more firm.  It has been a stretch for me.  Guess again like I said even though it would have been over an hour drive and I would have been at 2 schools I should have stayed with art.  My bag.  Now I have to step through and deal with what I dealt for myself.  Sigh!!

                                    Julie in Atlanta





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                                    yep AZ does some really foolish things.....teaching art for the 5th year in this insanely backwards state.  I taught 12 years in Virginia.....I just bite my tongue and consider myself lucky to have a  job.
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