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Punishing the class for 1 kid's mistake

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  • badazz33
    Hello, on friday i had an incident happen at the end of the day, in my last class of the day, i had a student smear paint all over another students painting
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 30, 2010
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      Hello, on friday i had an incident happen at the end of the day, in my last class of the day, i had a student smear paint all over another students painting and no one seems to want to tell who did it, how do i punish them to find out, or should i say, how do i get them to tell me who it was so we can get through this? any suggestions?
    • Lauren
      Well, punishing might or might not get them to admit who did it. But you are actually fortunate right now because you have the capability to teach the whole
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 31, 2010
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        Well, punishing might or might not get them to admit who did it. But you are actually fortunate right now because you have the capability to teach the whole class a valuable life lesson in empathy. 

        First, I would place a box on your desk or somewhere in the classroom. 

        I would then ask the student whose painting got ruined to please write with you how s/he feels about what happened. How s/he felt in preparation to paint, while s/he painted, after s/he painted and after s/he saw what had happened. I would ask this child if it would be ok for you to read it out loud to the class. 
        I would then open the discussion up to the children...... Not about pointing fingers but why, based on how the child prepared, worked, and was then robbed of that feeling of success.....why this was such a hurtful thing. 

        I would then do two things: discuss the box, which is a safe place for any child to confess what s/he did. 

        I would also remind the class that they are a community. As a community, it is their responsibility to keep others safe and to help them if something bad occured. 

        The class can then talk things through with the child on how they could rectify this. Can they mix the same colors from the original painting so the child could start again?Does the child  want help or company as s/he paints the work of art again?

        Most of all, the children need to be taught that if a bully is doing the wrong thing,there are ways in which they could stand up for what is right......and perhaps they could think to do this next time.
        Don't lose out on this teachable moment! 

          

        Lauren R. Perlman
        Founder/Director
        Mummies and Masterpieces
         

        Sent from my iPhone 

        On Oct 31, 2010, at 1:10 AM, "badazz33" <badazz33@...> wrote:

         

        Hello, on friday i had an incident happen at the end of the day, in my last class of the day, i had a student smear paint all over another students painting and no one seems to want to tell who did it, how do i punish them to find out, or should i say, how do i get them to tell me who it was so we can get through this? any suggestions?


      • Billie Dreher
        Beautifully said Lauren! I agree completely. I would like to add one thought, having just experienced a similar situation myself. I assumed a student s
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 31, 2010
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          Beautifully said Lauren!  I agree completely.  I would like to add one thought, having just experienced a similar situation myself.  I "assumed" a student's damaged piece in my class was a result of bullying.  The victim was a quiet new kid with very poor English skills.  I took a similar tack in response to your suggestions but DID NOT ask the victim to write a note regarding his feelings, nor did I ask him what had actually occurred that might have prompted the vandalism.  Several weeks later I observed this quiet, new kid doing VERY sneaky things to the other students...dripping water down their necks as he returned to his seat from washing his hands..."borrowing" the notes and sketches of other students and hiding them in various places in the class.  It became clear that I had a practical joker on my hands.  The vandalism to his work was the result of a prank gone too far by a student that was "getting him back."  I watch my classes much closer now :)!
           
          Billie Ann Dreher



          From: Lauren <laurenrperlman@...>
          To: "art_education@yahoogroups.com" <art_education@yahoogroups.com>
          Cc: "art_education@yahoogroups.com" <art_education@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 3:53:45 AM
          Subject: Re: [art_education] Punishing the class for 1 kid's mistake

           

          Well, punishing might or might not get them to admit who did it. But you are actually fortunate right now because you have the capability to teach the whole class a valuable life lesson in empathy. 

          First, I would place a box on your desk or somewhere in the classroom. 

          I would then ask the student whose painting got ruined to please write with you how s/he feels about what happened. How s/he felt in preparation to paint, while s/he painted, after s/he painted and after s/he saw what had happened. I would ask this child if it would be ok for you to read it out loud to the class. 
          I would then open the discussion up to the children...... Not about pointing fingers but why, based on how the child prepared, worked, and was then robbed of that feeling of success.....why this was such a hurtful thing. 

          I would then do two things: discuss the box, which is a safe place for any child to confess what s/he did. 

          I would also remind the class that they are a community. As a community, it is their responsibility to keep others safe and to help them if something bad occured. 

          The class can then talk things through with the child on how they could rectify this. Can they mix the same colors from the original painting so the child could start again?Does the child  want help or company as s/he paints the work of art again?

          Most of all, the children need to be taught that if a bully is doing the wrong thing,there are ways in which they could stand up for what is right......and perhaps they could think to do this next time.
          Don't lose out on this teachable moment! 

            

          Lauren R. Perlman
          Founder/Director
          Mummies and Masterpieces
           

          Sent from my iPhone 

          On Oct 31, 2010, at 1:10 AM, "badazz33" <badazz33@...> wrote:

           

          Hello, on friday i had an incident happen at the end of the day, in my last class of the day, i had a student smear paint all over another students painting and no one seems to want to tell who did it, how do i punish them to find out, or should i say, how do i get them to tell me who it was so we can get through this? any suggestions?



        • Misty Burright
          I had someone cut my erasers in tiny pieces and I put them in assigned seats unless the culprit admitted the crime. If the guilty one took responsibility, the
          Message 4 of 9 , Oct 31, 2010
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            I had someone cut my erasers in tiny pieces and I put them in assigned seats unless the culprit admitted the crime.  If the guilty one took responsibility, the only punishment was to apologize to the class (the first time).  When the rest of the class found out it would affect them because of assigned seating, they started ratting the kid out.  So essentially I knew who it was and questioned the student and he admitted it.  I know it may not work out quite so smoothly in your case, I felt "lucky" in that instance.  

            Maybe you'll never find out about this incident, so the question will then be how will you prevent this from happening again?  My solution for the eraser thing was this--and maybe it's tedious for some, but I dismiss students to line up by clean tables.  They can't line up unless they have 2 intact erasers stacked.  Once the students got used to the expectation, they scramble to "find the other eraser" so they can line up.  So what could have been done differently?  

            Another preventative measure would be to make character learning (character traits) a part of your lesson planning, teaching students that were are held accountable to each other and to ourselves.  The art room is a social place, and not all students have all the social skills they need to be successful:)  This impact may not happen over night, but it is an important investment.  I teach in a school where over 80% of students are free and reduced lunch (with a lot of students being around a lot of crime), but our character trait studies have helped I think. 

            If you know someone saw the painting incident and it happened during class.  I'd question each individual student or have a class meeting with the whole class to talk about the incident and make everybody aware, letting them know you are ready to listen to the culprit or receive any information witnesses have.  If you don't want to let it go-have a class meeting each class period until someone talks.  Class meeting agenda:  What is the problem?  What is the solution?  What if this happens again?

            I hope you get something from that:)


            On Oct 31, 2010, at 1:10 AM, badazz33 wrote:

             

            Hello, on friday i had an incident happen at the end of the day, in my last class of the day, i had a student smear paint all over another students painting and no one seems to want to tell who did it, how do i punish them to find out, or should i say, how do i get them to tell me who it was so we can get through this? any suggestions?


            *******
            This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the St. Joseph School District or the entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager and delete this message immediately. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not distribute or copy this e-mail.

          • Julie Casebourn
            Lauren,    I think you offered a very respectful and thoughtful suggestion in how to deal with this type of situation.  Thank you for taking time to post
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 1, 2010
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              Lauren,
                 I think you offered a very respectful and thoughtful suggestion in how to deal with this type of situation.  Thank you for taking time to post it. Sometimes I get in to a mindset of work work work since we barely have any time for art that the easiest and quickest way to deal with things is usually how I handle discipline issues and it's not always the best way.  I appreciate the reminder of the "teachable moment"  because we are teachers first and foremost, and art teachers secondly. 


              From: Lauren <laurenrperlman@...>
              To: "art_education@yahoogroups.com" <art_education@yahoogroups.com>
              Cc: "art_education@yahoogroups.com" <art_education@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 3:53:45 AM
              Subject: Re: [art_education] Punishing the class for 1 kid's mistake

               

              Well, punishing might or might not get them to admit who did it. But you are actually fortunate right now because you have the capability to teach the whole class a valuable life lesson in empathy. 

              First, I would place a box on your desk or somewhere in the classroom. 

              I would then ask the student whose painting got ruined to please write with you how s/he feels about what happened. How s/he felt in preparation to paint, while s/he painted, after s/he painted and after s/he saw what had happened. I would ask this child if it would be ok for you to read it out loud to the class. 
              I would then open the discussion up to the children...... Not about pointing fingers but why, based on how the child prepared, worked, and was then robbed of that feeling of success.....why this was such a hurtful thing. 

              I would then do two things: discuss the box, which is a safe place for any child to confess what s/he did. 

              I would also remind the class that they are a community. As a community, it is their responsibility to keep others safe and to help them if something bad occured. 

              The class can then talk things through with the child on how they could rectify this. Can they mix the same colors from the original painting so the child could start again?Does the child  want help or company as s/he paints the work of art again?

              Most of all, the children need to be taught that if a bully is doing the wrong thing,there are ways in which they could stand up for what is right......and perhaps they could think to do this next time.
              Don't lose out on this teachable moment! 

                

              Lauren R. Perlman
              Founder/Director
              Mummies and Masterpieces
               

              Sent from my iPhone 

              On Oct 31, 2010, at 1:10 AM, "badazz33" <badazz33@...> wrote:

               

              Hello, on friday i had an incident happen at the end of the day, in my last class of the day, i had a student smear paint all over another students painting and no one seems to want to tell who did it, how do i punish them to find out, or should i say, how do i get them to tell me who it was so we can get through this? any suggestions?



            • Lauren
              Hi. No problem:-) We are all learning from and supporting each other here:-) I know you will find the right fit regarding how to make things easier in the
              Message 6 of 9 , Nov 1, 2010
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                Hi. No problem:-) We are all learning from and supporting each other here:-)

                I know you will find the right fit regarding how to make things easier in the classroom. 

                Best of luck:-)

                Lauren

                Lauren R. Perlman
                Founder/Director
                Mummies and Masterpieces
                 

                Sent from my iPhone 

                On Nov 1, 2010, at 9:09 AM, Julie Casebourn <juliecas@...> wrote:

                 

                Lauren,
                   I think you offered a very respectful and thoughtful suggestion in how to deal with this type of situation.  Thank you for taking time to post it. Sometimes I get in to a mindset of work work work since we barely have any time for art that the easiest and quickest way to deal with things is usually how I handle discipline issues and it's not always the best way.  I appreciate the reminder of the "teachable moment"  because we are teachers first and foremost, and art teachers secondly. 


                From: Lauren <laurenrperlman@...>
                To: "art_education@yahoogroups.com" <art_education@yahoogroups.com>
                Cc: "art_education@yahoogroups.com" <art_education@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 3:53:45 AM
                Subject: Re: [art_education] Punishing the class for 1 kid's mistake

                 

                Well, punishing might or might not get them to admit who did it. But you are actually fortunate right now because you have the capability to teach the whole class a valuable life lesson in empathy. 

                First, I would place a box on your desk or somewhere in the classroom. 

                I would then ask the student whose painting got ruined to please write with you how s/he feels about what happened. How s/he felt in preparation to paint, while s/he painted, after s/he painted and after s/he saw what had happened. I would ask this child if it would be ok for you to read it out loud to the class. 
                I would then open the discussion up to the children...... Not about pointing fingers but why, based on how the child prepared, worked, and was then robbed of that feeling of success.....why this was such a hurtful thing. 

                I would then do two things: discuss the box, which is a safe place for any child to confess what s/he did. 

                I would also remind the class that they are a community. As a community, it is their responsibility to keep others safe and to help them if something bad occured. 

                The class can then talk things through with the child on how they could rectify this. Can they mix the same colors from the original painting so the child could start again?Does the child  want help or company as s/he paints the work of art again?

                Most of all, the children need to be taught that if a bully is doing the wrong thing,there are ways in which they could stand up for what is right......and perhaps they could think to do this next time.
                Don't lose out on this teachable moment! 

                  

                Lauren R. Perlman
                Founder/Director
                Mummies and Masterpieces
                 

                Sent from my iPhone 

                On Oct 31, 2010, at 1:10 AM, "badazz33" <badazz33@...> wrote:

                 

                Hello, on friday i had an incident happen at the end of the day, in my last class of the day, i had a student smear paint all over another students painting and no one seems to want to tell who did it, how do i punish them to find out, or should i say, how do i get them to tell me who it was so we can get through this? any suggestions?




              • Badazz33
                Thank you guys on all your responses. I will let you know as this issue unfolds. It will be this evening. I ll keep you posted. Thanks!!!! Sent from my iPhone
                Message 7 of 9 , Nov 1, 2010
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                  Thank you guys on all your responses. I will let you know as this issue unfolds. It will be this evening. I'll keep you posted. 

                  Thanks!!!!

                  Sent from my iPhone

                  On Oct 31, 2010, at 10:50 PM, Misty Burright <misty.burright@...> wrote:

                   

                  I had someone cut my erasers in tiny pieces and I put them in assigned seats unless the culprit admitted the crime.  If the guilty one took responsibility, the only punishment was to apologize to the class (the first time).  When the rest of the class found out it would affect them because of assigned seating, they started ratting the kid out.  So essentially I knew who it was and questioned the student and he admitted it.  I know it may not work out quite so smoothly in your case, I felt "lucky" in that instance.  


                  Maybe you'll never find out about this incident, so the question will then be how will you prevent this from happening again?  My solution for the eraser thing was this--and maybe it's tedious for some, but I dismiss students to line up by clean tables.  They can't line up unless they have 2 intact erasers stacked.  Once the students got used to the expectation, they scramble to "find the other eraser" so they can line up.  So what could have been done differently?  

                  Another preventative measure would be to make character learning (character traits) a part of your lesson planning, teaching students that were are held accountable to each other and to ourselves.  The art room is a social place, and not all students have all the social skills they need to be successful:)  This impact may not happen over night, but it is an important investment.  I teach in a school where over 80% of students are free and reduced lunch (with a lot of students being around a lot of crime), but our character trait studies have helped I think. 

                  If you know someone saw the painting incident and it happened during class.  I'd question each individual student or have a class meeting with the whole class to talk about the incident and make everybody aware, letting them know you are ready to listen to the culprit or receive any information witnesses have.  If you don't want to let it go-have a class meeting each class period until someone talks.  Class meeting agenda:  What is the problem?  What is the solution?  What if this happens again?

                  I hope you get something from that:)


                  On Oct 31, 2010, at 1:10 AM, badazz33 wrote:

                   

                  Hello, on friday i had an incident happen at the end of the day, in my last class of the day, i had a student smear paint all over another students painting and no one seems to want to tell who did it, how do i punish them to find out, or should i say, how do i get them to tell me who it was so we can get through this? any suggestions?


                  *******
                  This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the St. Joseph School District or the entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager and delete this message immediately. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not distribute or copy this e-mail.

                • aliteachesart
                  This is a great idea! One more thing I would add is that everybody makes mistakes. We need to own the mistake and learn from it. The Friday before Halloween
                  Message 8 of 9 , Nov 1, 2010
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                    This is a great idea! One more thing I would add is that everybody makes mistakes. We need to own the mistake and learn from it. The Friday before Halloween can cause some normally nice kiddos to turn into goblins! ALi k-4

                    --- In art_education@yahoogroups.com, Lauren <laurenrperlman@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Well, punishing might or might not get them to admit who did it. But you are actually fortunate right now because you have the capability to teach the whole class a valuable life lesson in empathy.
                    >
                    > First, I would place a box on your desk or somewhere in the classroom.
                    >
                    > I would then ask the student whose painting got ruined to please write with you how s/he feels about what happened. How s/he felt in preparation to paint, while s/he painted, after s/he painted and after s/he saw what had happened. I would ask this child if it would be ok for you to read it out loud to the class.
                    > I would then open the discussion up to the children...... Not about pointing fingers but why, based on how the child prepared, worked, and was then robbed of that feeling of success.....why this was such a hurtful thing.
                    >
                    > I would then do two things: discuss the box, which is a safe place for any child to confess what s/he did.
                    >
                    > I would also remind the class that they are a community. As a community, it is their responsibility to keep others safe and to help them if something bad occured.
                    >
                    > The class can then talk things through with the child on how they could rectify this. Can they mix the same colors from the original painting so the child could start again?Does the child want help or company as s/he paints the work of art again?
                    >
                    > Most of all, the children need to be taught that if a bully is doing the wrong thing,there are ways in which they could stand up for what is right......and perhaps they could think to do this next time.
                    > Don't lose out on this teachable moment!
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Lauren R. Perlman
                    > Founder/Director
                    > Mummies and Masterpieces
                    > mummiesandmasterpieces.com
                    >
                    >
                    > Sent from my iPhone
                    >
                    > On Oct 31, 2010, at 1:10 AM, "badazz33" <badazz33@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello, on friday i had an incident happen at the end of the day, in my last class of the day, i had a student smear paint all over another students painting and no one seems to want to tell who did it, how do i punish them to find out, or should i say, how do i get them to tell me who it was so we can get through this? any suggestions?
                    >
                  • aj4art
                    I am sorry....but I am getting a little tired of everyone s feelings . Kids are no longer taught to man up...that things happen in their life which are out of
                    Message 9 of 9 , Nov 1, 2010
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                      I am sorry....but I am getting a little tired of everyone's "feelings". Kids are no longer taught to man up...that things happen in their life which are out of their control (or even that their actions have consequences!). How one responds to that kind of action is the key...Kids come up to me all day with' "He hurt my feelings....blah....blah...." WHAT are we teaching our children? Life happens, deal with it...know sometimes people don't make the right choices.... develop relationships with your students and you will know all about what happened.

                      Want to teach empathy? Have your school bring in "Rachel's Challenge". It was very powerful.

                      Amy (NY)
                      --- In art_education@yahoogroups.com, Lauren <laurenrperlman@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Well, punishing might or might not get them to admit who did it. But you are actually fortunate right now because you have the capability to teach the whole class a valuable life lesson in empathy.
                      >
                      > First, I would place a box on your desk or somewhere in the classroom.
                      >
                      > I would then ask the student whose painting got ruined to please write with you how s/he feels about what happened. How s/he felt in preparation to paint, while s/he painted, after s/he painted and after s/he saw what had happened. I would ask this child if it would be ok for you to read it out loud to the class.
                      > I would then open the discussion up to the children...... Not about pointing fingers but why, based on how the child prepared, worked, and was then robbed of that feeling of success.....why this was such a hurtful thing.
                      >
                      > I would then do two things: discuss the box, which is a safe place for any child to confess what s/he did.
                      >
                      > I would also remind the class that they are a community. As a community, it is their responsibility to keep others safe and to help them if something bad occured.
                      >
                      > The class can then talk things through with the child on how they could rectify this. Can they mix the same colors from the original painting so the child could start again?Does the child want help or company as s/he paints the work of art again?
                      >
                      > Most of all, the children need to be taught that if a bully is doing the wrong thing,there are ways in which they could stand up for what is right......and perhaps they could think to do this next time.
                      > Don't lose out on this teachable moment!
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Lauren R. Perlman
                      > Founder/Director
                      > Mummies and Masterpieces
                      > mummiesandmasterpieces.com
                      >
                      >
                      > Sent from my iPhone
                      >
                      > On Oct 31, 2010, at 1:10 AM, "badazz33" <badazz33@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hello, on friday i had an incident happen at the end of the day, in my last class of the day, i had a student smear paint all over another students painting and no one seems to want to tell who did it, how do i punish them to find out, or should i say, how do i get them to tell me who it was so we can get through this? any suggestions?
                      >
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