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Re: [art_education] Advice

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  • Diane Gregory
    Great questions Jeff! I have a grad student who wants to do something like this. I will forward your suggestions to her. Thanks, Diane ... having
    Message 1 of 20 , Aug 3, 2010
      Great questions Jeff!  I have a grad student who wants to do something like this.  I will forward your suggestions to her.

      Thanks,

      Diane
       

      What kind of art do they like doing? 
      What is their greatest fear in creating art?
      What do they like most about doing art?
      What kind of skill or technique do they hope they walk out of class with?
      How do they best learn: Lecture, Demonstration, Reading, Collaboration, 
      What kind of assessments do they do best with? Fill in the blank, matching, T/F, 
      essay, etc.
      (These are examples of pre-assessments)

      What art did they like doing the most?
      What project gave them the most struggle? Why?
      If they were to suggest new projects what would they be?
      What teaching method did they like most this year? 
      What would you tell another student about this class to make sure they have 
      success?
      Describe the grading process of your projects?
      What assessment tool for the class did you like the most? Why?
      (These are examples of post-assessments)

      Keep the entry and exit assessments simple, focused on what "you" want to know 
      to build a better teaching environment. I do this every year. Yes, it takes a 
      bit of time to review but can make structuring your classes for the next year 
      productive plus administrators eat it up.

      Jeff (Minnesota)

      ____________ _________ _________ __

      I am applying for an Art position in a school district that is new to me having 
      resigned from the district I taught for 13 years (Art for 3 1/2 years; 6th grade 
      for 9 years). One questions on the application is: "How will (do) you go about 
      finding out about students' attitudes and feelings about your class?". I never 
      did a survey or questionnaire when I taught Art in the school where I was an Art 
      teacher; 1) as a new Art teacher I was trying to keep my head above water (I saw 
      7 classes a day [K-8th and MMR kids]) AND 2)the behavior and attitudes were so 
      poor that I felt I wouldn't be able to get constructive criticism back from 
      kids. 

      What to do you (or do you use) to get constructive criticism from kids? Any 
      suggestions as to ways I could find out about attitudes and feelings about my 
      class(es)constructi vely? 

      Thanks so much for your help!

      Penny Lee 



       

      I just posted this on the AtrsEducators site so if you've read it before please excuse my repetitiveness. ....

      I am applying for an Art position in a school district that is new to me having resigned from the district I taught for 13 years (Art for 3 1/2 years; 6th grade for 9 years). One questions on the application is: "How will (do) you go about finding out about students' attitudes and feelings about your class?". I never did a survey or questionnaire when I taught Art in the school where I was an Art teacher; 1) as a new Art teacher I was trying to keep my head above water (I saw 7 classes a day [K-8th and MMR kids]) AND 2)the behavior and attitudes were so poor that I felt I wouldn't be able to get constructive criticism back from kids.

      What to do you (or do you use) to get constructive criticism from kids? Any suggestions as to ways I could find out about attitudes and feelings about my class(es)constructi vely?

      Thanks so much for your help!

      Penny Lee


    • Jeff Pridie
      Diane, These questions can be modified from Elementary all the way up to High School. This is a great way to identify learning styles, level of knowledge,
      Message 2 of 20 , Aug 3, 2010
        Diane,

        These questions can be modified from Elementary all the way up to High School.  This is a great way to identify learning styles, level of knowledge, fears, strengths, valued opinions along with zeroing in on strengths and weaknesses in a program.


        jeff (minnesota)



         

        Great questions Jeff!  I have a grad student who wants to do something like this.  I will forward your suggestions to her.

        Thanks,

        Diane
         

        What kind of art do they like doing? 
        What is their greatest fear in creating art?
        What do they like most about doing art?
        What kind of skill or technique do they hope they walk out of class with?
        How do they best learn: Lecture, Demonstration, Reading, Collaboration, 
        What kind of assessments do they do best with? Fill in the blank, matching, T/F, 
        essay, etc.
        (These are examples of pre-assessments)

        What art did they like doing the most?
        What project gave them the most struggle? Why?
        If they were to suggest new projects what would they be?
        What teaching method did they like most this year? 
        What would you tell another student about this class to make sure they have 
        success?
        Describe the grading process of your projects?
        What assessment tool for the class did you like the most? Why?
        (These are examples of post-assessments)

        Keep the entry and exit assessments simple, focused on what "you" want to know 
        to build a better teaching environment. I do this every year. Yes, it takes a 
        bit of time to review but can make structuring your classes for the next year 
        productive plus administrators eat it up.

        Jeff (Minnesota)

        ____________ _________ _________ __

        I am applying for an Art position in a school district that is new to me having 
        resigned from the district I taught for 13 years (Art for 3 1/2 years; 6th grade 
        for 9 years). One questions on the application is: "How will (do) you go about 
        finding out about students' attitudes and feelings about your class?". I never 
        did a survey or questionnaire when I taught Art in the school where I was an Art 
        teacher; 1) as a new Art teacher I was trying to keep my head above water (I saw 
        7 classes a day [K-8th and MMR kids]) AND 2)the behavior and attitudes were so 
        poor that I felt I wouldn't be able to get constructive criticism back from 
        kids. 

        What to do you (or do you use) to get constructive criticism from kids? Any 
        suggestions as to ways I could find out about attitudes and feelings about my 
        class(es)constructi vely? 

        Thanks so much for your help!

        Penny Lee 



         

        I just posted this on the AtrsEducators site so if you've read it before please excuse my repetitiveness. ....

        I am applying for an Art position in a school district that is new to me having resigned from the district I taught for 13 years (Art for 3 1/2 years; 6th grade for 9 years). One questions on the application is: "How will (do) you go about finding out about students' attitudes and feelings about your class?". I never did a survey or questionnaire when I taught Art in the school where I was an Art teacher; 1) as a new Art teacher I was trying to keep my head above water (I saw 7 classes a day [K-8th and MMR kids]) AND 2)the behavior and attitudes were so poor that I felt I wouldn't be able to get constructive criticism back from kids.

        What to do you (or do you use) to get constructive criticism from kids? Any suggestions as to ways I could find out about attitudes and feelings about my class(es)constructi vely?

        Thanks so much for your help!

        Penny Lee



      • Diane Gregory
        Thanks Jeff, My student just finished her first year of teaching art. She is discouraged because she feels that art is not taken seriously. So she is looking
        Message 3 of 20 , Aug 3, 2010
          Thanks Jeff,

          My student just finished her first year of teaching art.  She is discouraged because she feels that art is not taken seriously.  So she is looking into trying to identify their ideas, opinions, knowledge, experiences so she can relate to them.  She created a survey, but the tone of it was a little defensive and so she is revising it.  The information you provided in your list will help her to strike a good, factual, or objective tone.

          Thanks so much.

          Diane
           





          Go confidently in the direction of your dreams--Live the Life You've Imagined!
          Henry David Thoreau, Walden


          Dr. Diane C. Gregory
          Associate Professor of Art Education
          Director, Undergraduate & Graduate Studies in Art Education
          dgregory@...


          From: Jeff Pridie <jeffpridie@...>
          To: art_education@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tue, August 3, 2010 8:28:04 PM
          Subject: Re: [art_education] Advice

           

          Diane,

          These questions can be modified from Elementary all the way up to High School.  This is a great way to identify learning styles, level of knowledge, fears, strengths, valued opinions along with zeroing in on strengths and weaknesses in a program.


          jeff (minnesota)



           

          Great questions Jeff!  I have a grad student who wants to do something like this.  I will forward your suggestions to her.

          Thanks,

          Diane
           

          What kind of art do they like doing? 
          What is their greatest fear in creating art?
          What do they like most about doing art?
          What kind of skill or technique do they hope they walk out of class with?
          How do they best learn: Lecture, Demonstration, Reading, Collaboration, 
          What kind of assessments do they do best with? Fill in the blank, matching, T/F, 
          essay, etc.
          (These are examples of pre-assessments)

          What art did they like doing the most?
          What project gave them the most struggle? Why?
          If they were to suggest new projects what would they be?
          What teaching method did they like most this year? 
          What would you tell another student about this class to make sure they have 
          success?
          Describe the grading process of your projects?
          What assessment tool for the class did you like the most? Why?
          (These are examples of post-assessments)

          Keep the entry and exit assessments simple, focused on what "you" want to know 
          to build a better teaching environment. I do this every year. Yes, it takes a 
          bit of time to review but can make structuring your classes for the next year 
          productive plus administrators eat it up.

          Jeff (Minnesota)

          ____________ _________ _________ __

          I am applying for an Art position in a school district that is new to me having 
          resigned from the district I taught for 13 years (Art for 3 1/2 years; 6th grade 
          for 9 years). One questions on the application is: "How will (do) you go about 
          finding out about students' attitudes and feelings about your class?". I never 
          did a survey or questionnaire when I taught Art in the school where I was an Art 
          teacher; 1) as a new Art teacher I was trying to keep my head above water (I saw 
          7 classes a day [K-8th and MMR kids]) AND 2)the behavior and attitudes were so 
          poor that I felt I wouldn't be able to get constructive criticism back from 
          kids. 

          What to do you (or do you use) to get constructive criticism from kids? Any 
          suggestions as to ways I could find out about attitudes and feelings about my 
          class(es)constructi vely? 

          Thanks so much for your help!

          Penny Lee 



           

          I just posted this on the AtrsEducators site so if you've read it before please excuse my repetitiveness. ....

          I am applying for an Art position in a school district that is new to me having resigned from the district I taught for 13 years (Art for 3 1/2 years; 6th grade for 9 years). One questions on the application is: "How will (do) you go about finding out about students' attitudes and feelings about your class?". I never did a survey or questionnaire when I taught Art in the school where I was an Art teacher; 1) as a new Art teacher I was trying to keep my head above water (I saw 7 classes a day [K-8th and MMR kids]) AND 2)the behavior and attitudes were so poor that I felt I wouldn't be able to get constructive criticism back from kids.

          What to do you (or do you use) to get constructive criticism from kids? Any suggestions as to ways I could find out about attitudes and feelings about my class(es)constructi vely?

          Thanks so much for your help!

          Penny Lee



        • Penny Lee
          I know the feeling! Penny Lee To: art_education@yahoogroups.com From: gregory.diane55@yahoo.com Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 19:57:18 -0700 Subject: Re:
          Message 4 of 20 , Aug 3, 2010
            I know the feeling! 

            Penny Lee




            To: art_education@yahoogroups.com
            From: gregory.diane55@...
            Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 19:57:18 -0700
            Subject: Re: [art_education] Advice

             

            Thanks Jeff,

            My student just finished her first year of teaching art.  She is discouraged because she feels that art is not taken seriously.  So she is looking into trying to identify their ideas, opinions, knowledge, experiences so she can relate to them.  She created a survey, but the tone of it was a little defensive and so she is revising it.  The information you provided in your list will help her to strike a good, factual, or objective tone.

            Thanks so much.

            Diane
             





            Go confidently in the direction of your dreams--Live the Life You've Imagined!
            Henry David Thoreau, Walden


            Dr. Diane C. Gregory
            Associate Professor of Art Education
            Director, Undergraduate & Graduate Studies in Art Education
            dgregory@mail. twu.edu


            From: Jeff Pridie <jeffpridie@yahoo. com>
            To: art_education@ yahoogroups. com
            Sent: Tue, August 3, 2010 8:28:04 PM
            Subject: Re: [art_education] Advice

             

            Diane,

            These questions can be modified from Elementary all the way up to High School.  This is a great way to identify learning styles, level of knowledge, fears, strengths, valued opinions along with zeroing in on strengths and weaknesses in a program.


            jeff (minnesota)



             

            Great questions Jeff!  I have a grad student who wants to do something like this.  I will forward your suggestions to her.

            Thanks,

            Diane
             

            What kind of art do they like doing? 
            What is their greatest fear in creating art?
            What do they like most about doing art?
            What kind of skill or technique do they hope they walk out of class with?
            How do they best learn: Lecture, Demonstration, Reading, Collaboration, 
            What kind of assessments do they do best with? Fill in the blank, matching, T/F, 
            essay, etc.
            (These are examples of pre-assessments)

            What art did they like doing the most?
            What project gave them the most struggle? Why?
            If they were to suggest new projects what would they be?
            What teaching method did they like most this year? 
            What would you tell another student about this class to make sure they have 
            success?
            Describe the grading process of your projects?
            What assessment tool for the class did you like the most? Why?
            (These are examples of post-assessments)

            Keep the entry and exit assessments simple, focused on what "you" want to know 
            to build a better teaching environment. I do this every year. Yes, it takes a 
            bit of time to review but can make structuring your classes for the next year 
            productive plus administrators eat it up.

            Jeff (Minnesota)

            ____________ _________ _________ __

            I am applying for an Art position in a school district that is new to me having 
            resigned from the district I taught for 13 years (Art for 3 1/2 years; 6th grade 
            for 9 years). One questions on the application is: "How will (do) you go about 
            finding out about students' attitudes and feelings about your class?". I never 
            did a survey or questionnaire when I taught Art in the school where I was an Art 
            teacher; 1) as a new Art teacher I was trying to keep my head above water (I saw 
            7 classes a day [K-8th and MMR kids]) AND 2)the behavior and attitudes were so 
            poor that I felt I wouldn't be able to get constructive criticism back from 
            kids. 

            What to do you (or do you use) to get constructive criticism from kids? Any 
            suggestions as to ways I could find out about attitudes and feelings about my 
            class(es)constructi vely? 

            Thanks so much for your help!

            Penny Lee 



             
            I just posted this on the AtrsEducators site so if you've read it before please excuse my repetitiveness. ....

            I am applying for an Art position in a school district that is new to me having resigned from the district I taught for 13 years (Art for 3 1/2 years; 6th grade for 9 years). One questions on the application is: "How will (do) you go about finding out about students' attitudes and feelings about your class?". I never did a survey or questionnaire when I taught Art in the school where I was an Art teacher; 1) as a new Art teacher I was trying to keep my head above water (I saw 7 classes a day [K-8th and MMR kids]) AND 2)the behavior and attitudes were so poor that I felt I wouldn't be able to get constructive criticism back from kids.

            What to do you (or do you use) to get constructive criticism from kids? Any suggestions as to ways I could find out about attitudes and feelings about my class(es)constructi vely?

            Thanks so much for your help!

            Penny Lee





          • Jeff Pridie
            Warning personal opinion here I to have fallen into the trap of the poor art, its never taken seriously by students, parents, community, administrators, and
            Message 5 of 20 , Aug 4, 2010
              Warning personal opinion here

              I to have fallen into the trap of the "poor art, its never taken seriously by students, parents, community, administrators, and the list goes on"

              Teachers many times write surveys in such a way to "hear" what "they" want to "hear".  Change in any form is never clean nice and neat.  Hearing unpleasant comments also can be very damning to ones ego and esteem. 

              So if you are ready for the truth survey your students.  The truth though has to be objective.  The way you gather the truth has to be meaningful for the student, valued and appreciated.  As a teacher you have to "craft" the survey so you gain the most insight as possible from the tool.

              Guard yourself and "not" take it personally.  With all the well intended lessons you may have developed students may not have connected to them.  The key to many "non-connected" lessons is the delivery system and the product.  Were students given enough "choices" to demonstrate knowledge, skill, understanding.  Was it age appropriate.  Did students find ownership in the lesson, putting a personal stamp on it?

              Finally with all well intended lessons some students will just simply not do for reasons you do not control.
              Deep rooted personality issues, emotional issues, learning disabilities, cultural issues.  Finding the right trigger for these students is so individualized and takes time to find.

              I think with surveys written specifically for individual classes can help identify some of the tools you will need to be successful.   I caution teachers using just a generic survey, a run off from the internet as it does not address many times the individualized needs specific school environments have.

              Just some thoughts.

              Jeff (minnesota)



            • pent19
              At the end of each project I have my students complete a checklist (a kid-friendly version of my rubric) on the checklist i ask them a few short answer
              Message 6 of 20 , Aug 4, 2010
                At the end of each project I have my students complete a checklist (a kid-friendly version of my rubric) on the checklist i ask them a few short answer questions- what did you learn, what did you like, what was difficult etc? i generally get honest answers and very few one worded or worthless answers. I also ask at the end of the year to rank this years projects (with clay usually being at the top). If i have some strugglers/stragglers i usually talk to them about whats going on and why they are frustrated. Generally their attitude has nothing to do with art but problems at home, with a friend etc. Sometimes just a few minutes chatting can turn that child around. Also, you could do a survey at the beginning of the year, on the first day and get a feel for attitudes and feelings and adjust your projects accordingly.
                Michele

                As the students get older i try to find more un-traditional materials to work with to motivate them and avoid redunance. I will be at my school for 3 years this fall and already have students looking forward to projects i have done with other kids. (some materials-copper tooling, recycled crayons, etc-i save these for the spring too when kids start getting ansy.)


                >
                > I am applying for an Art position in a school district that is new to me having resigned from the district I taught for 13 years (Art for 3 1/2 years; 6th grade for 9 years). One questions on the application is: "How will (do) you go about finding out about students' attitudes and feelings about your class?". I never did a survey or questionnaire when I taught Art in the school where I was an Art teacher; 1) as a new Art teacher I was trying to keep my head above water (I saw 7 classes a day [K-8th and MMR kids]) AND 2)the behavior and attitudes were so poor that I felt I wouldn't be able to get constructive criticism back from kids.
                >
                >
                >
                > What to do you (or do you use) to get constructive criticism from kids? Any suggestions as to ways I could find out about attitudes and feelings about my class(es)constructi vely?
                >
                >
                >
                > Thanks so much for your help!
                >
                >
                >
                > Penny Lee
                >
              • go4art@juno.com
                Penny, like Jeff I have students complete an art survey when the class begins and a reflection at the end. Along with some of the concepts he mentioned, I
                Message 7 of 20 , Aug 4, 2010
                  Penny, like Jeff I have students complete an art survey when the class begins and a reflection at the end. Along with some of the concepts he mentioned, I also include items to gather information about the classroom studio environment (do they like to work silently, with music, etc), about the class community (what can they contribute to make it positive, etc) and the experience (what advice would they give to new students, what they want me as the teacher do to help students, etc). It always proves to be both insightful and useful.

                  best wishes~
                  creatively, Linda
                  (middle school in Oregon)

                  ____________________________________________________________
                  LCD 42" TV for $26.42? Macbook Pro for $91.73?
                  Are these prices real? You WON'T Believe What We Found!
                  http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c598dec405c3568c23st04vuc
                • Penny Lee
                  Thanks, Jeff. I appreciate your insights and comments. I will consider them when I design a survey / feedback tool. I have had personal experience with what
                  Message 8 of 20 , Aug 4, 2010
                    Thanks, Jeff.  I appreciate your insights and comments.  I will consider them when I design a survey / feedback tool.  

                    I have had personal experience with what you refer to as "the
                    trap of the 'poor art, its never taken seriously by students, parents, community, administrators,' " etc. and it's not a myth as you imply.  In my experience teaching Art in a K-8th grade setting I found not much support and / or respect regarding Art among the 7th / 8th grade teachers in fact they portrayed Art in a very secondary light both by their actions and words.  There was more however, varied support among other classroom teachersUnfortunately, the principal of this school demonstrated little support (and respect) for Art which could have made a "trickle-down" impression on my fellow teachers. 

                    Thanks again for your insights.

                    Penny Lee




                    To: art_education@yahoogroups.com
                    From: jeffpridie@...
                    Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 07:00:46 -0700
                    Subject: Re: [art_education] Advice

                     

                    Warning personal opinion here

                    I to have fallen into the trap of the "poor art, its never taken seriously by students, parents, community, administrators, and the list goes on"

                    Teachers many times write surveys in such a way to "hear" what "they" want to "hear".  Change in any form is never clean nice and neat.  Hearing unpleasant comments also can be very damning to ones ego and esteem. 

                    So if you are ready for the truth survey your students.  The truth though has to be objective.  The way you gather the truth has to be meaningful for the student, valued and appreciated.  As a teacher you have to "craft" the survey so you gain the most insight as possible from the tool.

                    Guard yourself and "not" take it personally.  With all the well intended lessons you may have developed students may not have connected to them.  The key to many "non-connected" lessons is the delivery system and the product.  Were students given enough "choices" to demonstrate knowledge, skill, understanding.  Was it age appropriate.  Did students find ownership in the lesson, putting a personal stamp on it?

                    Finally with all well intended lessons some students will just simply not do for reasons you do not control.
                    Deep rooted personality issues, emotional issues, learning disabilities, cultural issues.  Finding the right trigger for these students is so individualized and takes time to find.

                    I think with surveys written specifically for individual classes can help identify some of the tools you will need to be successful.   I caution teachers using just a generic survey, a run off from the internet as it does not address many times the individualized needs specific school environments have.

                    Just some thoughts.

                    Jeff (minnesota)




                  • Jeff Pridie
                    The disrespected art program that I refer to I did not intend to sound like it was a myth. Far from that it is a reality. In the 30 years of teaching I have
                    Message 9 of 20 , Aug 4, 2010
                      The disrespected art program that I refer to I did not intend to sound like it was a myth.  Far from that it is a reality.  In the 30 years of teaching I have seen that up and down trial over and over and over again. The decision after you have done all you can do to change that impression is that the environment you want to teach in, is it giving you growth?  As I have advised many teachers there is a time to bail seek a better environment that is "life giving" not "life taking".

                      Good adventures with your new position.  You have a great heart in wanting  the best for your students.

                      jeff (minnesota)




                       

                      Thanks, Jeff.  I appreciate your insights and comments.  I will consider them when I design a survey / feedback tool.  

                      I have had personal experience with what you refer to as "the
                      trap of the 'poor art, its never taken seriously by students, parents, community, administrators, ' " etc. and it's not a myth as you imply.  In my experience teaching Art in a K-8th grade setting I found not much support and / or respect regarding Art among the 7th / 8th grade teachers in fact they portrayed Art in a very secondary light both by their actions and words.  There was more however, varied support among other classroom teachersUnfortunately, the principal of this school demonstrated little support (and respect) for Art which could have made a "trickle-down" impression on my fellow teachers. 

                      Thanks again for your insights.

                      Penny Lee




                      To: art_education@ yahoogroups. com
                      From: jeffpridie@yahoo. com
                      Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 07:00:46 -0700
                      Subject: Re: [art_education] Advice

                       

                      Warning personal opinion here

                      I to have fallen into the trap of the "poor art, its never taken seriously by students, parents, community, administrators, and the list goes on"

                      Teachers many times write surveys in such a way to "hear" what "they" want to "hear".  Change in any form is never clean nice and neat.  Hearing unpleasant comments also can be very damning to ones ego and esteem. 

                      So if you are ready for the truth survey your students.  The truth though has to be objective.  The way you gather the truth has to be meaningful for the student, valued and appreciated.  As a teacher you have to "craft" the survey so you gain the most insight as possible from the tool.

                      Guard yourself and "not" take it personally.  With all the well intended lessons you may have developed students may not have connected to them.  The key to many "non-connected" lessons is the delivery system and the product.  Were students given enough "choices" to demonstrate knowledge, skill, understanding.  Was it age appropriate.  Did students find ownership in the lesson, putting a personal stamp on it?

                      Finally with all well intended lessons some students will just simply not do for reasons you do not control.
                      Deep rooted personality issues, emotional issues, learning disabilities, cultural issues.  Finding the right trigger for these students is so individualized and takes time to find.

                      I think with surveys written specifically for individual classes can help identify some of the tools you will need to be successful.   I caution teachers using just a generic survey, a run off from the internet as it does not address many times the individualized needs specific school environments have.

                      Just some thoughts.

                      Jeff (minnesota)





                    • Diane Gregory
                      Greetings! Art teachers have challenging jobs! Call me crazy, but this is what I like about it! It is like having a huge creative problem solving
                      Message 10 of 20 , Aug 4, 2010
                        Greetings!

                        Art teachers have challenging jobs!  Call me crazy, but this is what I like about it!  It is like having a huge creative problem solving opportunity.  What an opportunity it is!  I know art teachers are creative, passionate and committed professionals.  We are up to this challenge!

                        On the one hand art education is not given the respect it deserves and on the other hand we have such a passion for the value of an education in art.  We know in the very core of our being the importance of an education in art.  Just because others do not yet see it, doesn't make it so.

                        There can sometimes be a huge gap between what we would like to see and what is reality.  The larger the gap, the more discouraging it can be.  So I have to constantly remind myself of the value of an education in art and approach my work with a positive frame of mind.  This takes a lot of work.  It is not easy.  I have to constantly talk to myself.  I put quotes all over the place and have to replace my discouraging inner voice with positive thoughts...I can not go to that negative place to often or I would just quit...and I will not do that.

                        So when writing a survey or a questionnaire, be prepared to get comments that are discouraging.  But look for the good, the positive and the rewarding.  Write your questionnaire in such a way as to encourage positive, constructive comments.

                        We have a lot of work to do to change attitudes.  I am constantly reminded of some comments I have received from pre-service elementary classroom teachers.  I think I have posted them on the list.

                        Such as,

                        This course is a waste of my time.  I don't know why I have to take it.  I will have an art teacher and she will teach the art. (In Texas over 52% of classroom teachers teach their own art because there is no art teacher)

                        Why do I need to learn how to find and write art lesson plans?  We will have a book that will tell us what to teach. (In reality, there are no books provided even if they are provided by the state)

                        Art is not tested and there is no money to buy art supplies, so why do I need to know this stuff? (Art is not part of the state mandated TAKS test and I can understand the confusion.)

                        So we have a huge challenge on our hands.  We always have.  It is like climbing Mount Everest.

                        What constructive things can each of us do to change these pervasive attitudes in our culture and educational system?  What one thing can each of us do this year to make a difference?

                        What do you think?  What would you be willing to do that you are not doing now?

                        I will be launching the Blog ArtEdOnline and maybe in some small way we will be able to reach elementary classroom teachers through this blog.

                        What do you guys think?

                        Diane



                         
                        The disrespected art program that I refer to I did not intend to sound like it was a myth.  Far from that it is a reality.  In the 30 years of teaching I have seen that up and down trial over and over and over again. The decision after you have done all you can do to change that impression is that the environment you want to teach in, is it giving you growth?  As I have advised many teachers there is a time to bail seek a better environment that is "life giving" not "life taking".

                        Good adventures with your new position.  You have a great heart in wanting  the best for your students.

                        jeff (minnesota)




                         

                        Thanks, Jeff.  I appreciate your insights and comments.  I will consider them when I design a survey / feedback tool.  

                        I have had personal experience with what you refer to as "the
                        trap of the 'poor art, its never taken seriously by students, parents, community, administrators, ' " etc. and it's not a myth as you imply.  In my experience teaching Art in a K-8th grade setting I found not much support and / or respect regarding Art among the 7th / 8th grade teachers in fact they portrayed Art in a very secondary light both by their actions and words.  There was more however, varied support among other classroom teachersUnfortunately, the principal of this school demonstrated little support (and respect) for Art which could have made a "trickle-down" impression on my fellow teachers. 

                        Thanks again for your insights.

                        Penny Lee




                        To: art_education@ yahoogroups. com
                        From: jeffpridie@yahoo. com
                        Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 07:00:46 -0700
                        Subject: Re: [art_education] Advice

                         

                        Warning personal opinion here

                        I to have fallen into the trap of the "poor art, its never taken seriously by students, parents, community, administrators, and the list goes on"

                        Teachers many times write surveys in such a way to "hear" what "they" want to "hear".  Change in any form is never clean nice and neat.  Hearing unpleasant comments also can be very damning to ones ego and esteem. 

                        So if you are ready for the truth survey your students.  The truth though has to be objective.  The way you gather the truth has to be meaningful for the student, valued and appreciated.  As a teacher you have to "craft" the survey so you gain the most insight as possible from the tool.

                        Guard yourself and "not" take it personally.  With all the well intended lessons you may have developed students may not have connected to them.  The key to many "non-connected" lessons is the delivery system and the product.  Were students given enough "choices" to demonstrate knowledge, skill, understanding.  Was it age appropriate.  Did students find ownership in the lesson, putting a personal stamp on it?

                        Finally with all well intended lessons some students will just simply not do for reasons you do not control.
                        Deep rooted personality issues, emotional issues, learning disabilities, cultural issues.  Finding the right trigger for these students is so individualized and takes time to find.

                        I think with surveys written specifically for individual classes can help identify some of the tools you will need to be successful.   I caution teachers using just a generic survey, a run off from the internet as it does not address many times the individualized needs specific school environments have.

                        Just some thoughts.

                        Jeff (minnesota)





                      • Penny Lee
                        Jeff, I truly appreciate the support you are giving me and others who are not in an environment that helps them grow and prosper as people, teachers, and
                        Message 11 of 20 , Aug 4, 2010
                          Jeff, I truly appreciate the support you are giving me and others who are not in an environment that helps them grow and prosper as people, teachers, and artists.  Very often, I have found the institution that promotes respect, growth, positive behavior, etc. among students and teachers to students has a double standard regarding teachers and administrators to teachers.  It's a shame that education is what it is and that we spend lots of time nourishingkids and issues related to kids but extremely little time taking care of adults (other than parents).

                          Penny




                          To: art_education@yahoogroups.com
                          From: jeffpridie@...
                          Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 10:29:05 -0700
                          Subject: Re: [art_education] Advice

                           

                          The disrespected art program that I refer to I did not intend to sound like it was a myth.  Far from that it is a reality.  In the 30 years of teaching I have seen that up and down trial over and over and over again. The decision after you have done all you can do to change that impression is that the environment you want to teach in, is it giving you growth?  As I have advised many teachers there is a time to bail seek a better environment that is "life giving" not "life taking".

                          Good adventures with your new position.  You have a great heart in wanting  the best for your students.

                          jeff (minnesota)




                           
                          Thanks, Jeff.  I appreciate your insights and comments.  I will consider them when I design a survey / feedback tool.  

                          I have had personal experience with what you refer to as "the
                          trap of the 'poor art, its never taken seriously by students, parents, community, administrators, ' " etc. and it's not a myth as you imply.  In my experience teaching Art in a K-8th grade setting I found not much support and / or respect regarding Art among the 7th / 8th grade teachers in fact they portrayed Art in a very secondary light both by their actions and words.  There was more however, varied support among other classroom teachersUnfortunately, the principal of this school demonstrated little support (and respect) for Art which could have made a "trickle-down" impression on my fellow teachers. 

                          Thanks again for your insights.

                          Penny Lee





                          To: art_education@ yahoogroups. com
                          From: jeffpridie@yahoo. com
                          Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 07:00:46 -0700
                          Subject: Re: [art_education] Advice

                           

                          Warning personal opinion here

                          I to have fallen into the trap of the "poor art, its never taken seriously by students, parents, community, administrators, and the list goes on"

                          Teachers many times write surveys in such a way to "hear" what "they" want to "hear".  Change in any form is never clean nice and neat.  Hearing unpleasant comments also can be very damning to ones ego and esteem. 

                          So if you are ready for the truth survey your students.  The truth though has to be objective.  The way you gather the truth has to be meaningful for the student, valued and appreciated.  As a teacher you have to "craft" the survey so you gain the most insight as possible from the tool.

                          Guard yourself and "not" take it personally.  With all the well intended lessons you may have developed students may not have connected to them.  The key to many "non-connected" lessons is the delivery system and the product.  Were students given enough "choices" to demonstrate knowledge, skill, understanding.  Was it age appropriate.  Did students find ownership in the lesson, putting a personal stamp on it?

                          Finally with all well intended lessons some students will just simply not do for reasons you do not control.
                          Deep rooted personality issues, emotional issues, learning disabilities, cultural issues.  Finding the right trigger for these students is so individualized and takes time to find.

                          I think with surveys written specifically for individual classes can help identify some of the tools you will need to be successful.   I caution teachers using just a generic survey, a run off from the internet as it does not address many times the individualized needs specific school environments have.

                          Just some thoughts.

                          Jeff (minnesota)






                        • Jeff Pridie
                          First of all we realize we are not alone art educators even though we are from different parts of the country and world have and do face all the same issues.
                          Message 12 of 20 , Aug 4, 2010
                            First of all we realize we are not "alone" art educators even though we are from different parts of the country and world have and do face all the same issues.  We need to find that learning community where we can support, listen, offer advice, critique our thinking.  Support is the key.  So often as art educators we either isolate ourselves or are isolated due to the teaching environment.  Being here, venting, shoveling out all the "stuff" to others that are like in your situation can and is freeing for the soul, and sanity.  The online communities have truly been a god send as far as building community and developing professional learning communities.

                            Jeff (minnesota)




                             

                            Jeff, I truly appreciate the support you are giving me and others who are not in an environment that helps them grow and prosper as people, teachers, and artists.  Very often, I have found the institution that promotes respect, growth, positive behavior, etc. among students and teachers to students has a double standard regarding teachers and administrators to teachers.  It's a shame that education is what it is and that we spend lots of time nourishingkids and issues related to kids but extremely little time taking care of adults (other than parents).

                            Penny




                            To: art_education@ yahoogroups. com
                            From: jeffpridie@yahoo. com
                            Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 10:29:05 -0700
                            Subject: Re: [art_education] Advice

                             

                            The disrespected art program that I refer to I did not intend to sound like it was a myth.  Far from that it is a reality.  In the 30 years of teaching I have seen that up and down trial over and over and over again. The decision after you have done all you can do to change that impression is that the environment you want to teach in, is it giving you growth?  As I have advised many teachers there is a time to bail seek a better environment that is "life giving" not "life taking".

                            Good adventures with your new position.  You have a great heart in wanting  the best for your students.

                            jeff (minnesota)




                             
                            Thanks, Jeff.  I appreciate your insights and comments.  I will consider them when I design a survey / feedback tool.  

                            I have had personal experience with what you refer to as "the
                            trap of the 'poor art, its never taken seriously by students, parents, community, administrators, ' " etc. and it's not a myth as you imply.  In my experience teaching Art in a K-8th grade setting I found not much support and / or respect regarding Art among the 7th / 8th grade teachers in fact they portrayed Art in a very secondary light both by their actions and words.  There was more however, varied support among other classroom teachersUnfortunately, the principal of this school demonstrated little support (and respect) for Art which could have made a "trickle-down" impression on my fellow teachers. 

                            Thanks again for your insights.

                            Penny Lee





                            To: art_education@ yahoogroups. com
                            From: jeffpridie@yahoo. com
                            Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 07:00:46 -0700
                            Subject: Re: [art_education] Advice

                             

                            Warning personal opinion here

                            I to have fallen into the trap of the "poor art, its never taken seriously by students, parents, community, administrators, and the list goes on"

                            Teachers many times write surveys in such a way to "hear" what "they" want to "hear".  Change in any form is never clean nice and neat.  Hearing unpleasant comments also can be very damning to ones ego and esteem. 

                            So if you are ready for the truth survey your students.  The truth though has to be objective.  The way you gather the truth has to be meaningful for the student, valued and appreciated.  As a teacher you have to "craft" the survey so you gain the most insight as possible from the tool.

                            Guard yourself and "not" take it personally.  With all the well intended lessons you may have developed students may not have connected to them.  The key to many "non-connected" lessons is the delivery system and the product.  Were students given enough "choices" to demonstrate knowledge, skill, understanding.  Was it age appropriate.  Did students find ownership in the lesson, putting a personal stamp on it?

                            Finally with all well intended lessons some students will just simply not do for reasons you do not control.
                            Deep rooted personality issues, emotional issues, learning disabilities, cultural issues.  Finding the right trigger for these students is so individualized and takes time to find.

                            I think with surveys written specifically for individual classes can help identify some of the tools you will need to be successful.   I caution teachers using just a generic survey, a run off from the internet as it does not address many times the individualized needs specific school environments have.

                            Just some thoughts.

                            Jeff (minnesota)







                          • Wanda
                            Well said Jeff. It seems each year brings new challenges along with rewarding students and renewed energies. I hope each of us has a great new school year.
                            Message 13 of 20 , Aug 4, 2010
                              Well said Jeff. It seems each year brings new challenges along with
                              rewarding students and renewed energies. I hope each of us has a great
                              new school year. Wanda

                              In art_education@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Pridie <jeffpridie@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > First of all we realize we are not "alone" art educators even though
                              we are from
                              > different parts of the country and world have and do face all the same
                              issues.
                              > We need to find that learning community where we can support, listen,
                              offer
                              > advice, critique our thinking. Support is the key. So often as art
                              educators
                              > we either isolate ourselves or are isolated due to the teaching
                              environment.
                              > Being here, venting, shoveling out all the "stuff" to others that are
                              like in
                              > your situation can and is freeing for the soul, and sanity. The online
                              > communities have truly been a god send as far as building community
                              and
                              > developing professional learning communities.
                              >
                              > Jeff (minnesota)
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ________________________________
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Jeff, I truly appreciate the support you are giving me and others who
                              are not in
                              > an environment that helps them grow and prosper as people, teachers,
                              and
                              > artists. Very often, I have found the institution that promotes
                              respect,
                              > growth, positive behavior, etc. among students and teachers to
                              students has a
                              > double standard regarding teachers and administrators to teachers.
                              It's a shame
                              > that education is what it is and that we spend lots of time nourishing
                              kids and
                              > issues related to kids but extremely little time taking care of adults
                              (other
                              > than parents).
                              >
                              > Penny
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ________________________________
                              > To: art_education@ yahoogroups. com
                              > From: jeffpridie@yahoo. com
                              > Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 10:29:05 -0700
                              > Subject: Re: [art_education] Advice
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > The disrespected art program that I refer to I did not intend to sound
                              like it
                              > was a myth. Far from that it is a reality. In the 30 years of teaching
                              I have
                              > seen that up and down trial over and over and over again. The decision
                              after you
                              > have done all you can do to change that impression is that the
                              environment you
                              > want to teach in, is it giving you growth? As I have advised many
                              teachers
                              > there is a time to bail seek a better environment that is "life
                              giving" not
                              > "life taking".
                              >
                              > Good adventures with your new position. You have a great heart in
                              wanting the
                              > best for your students.
                              >
                              > jeff (minnesota)
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ________________________________
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Thanks, Jeff. I appreciate your insights and comments. I will consider
                              them
                              > when I design a survey / feedback tool.
                              >
                              >
                              > I have had personal experience with what you refer to as "the trap of
                              the 'poor
                              > art, its never taken seriously by students, parents, community,
                              administrators,
                              > ' " etc. and it's not a myth as you imply. In my experience teaching
                              Art in a
                              > K-8th grade setting I found not much support and / or respect
                              regarding Art
                              > among the 7th / 8th grade teachers in fact they portrayed Art in a
                              very
                              > secondary light both by their actions and words. There was more
                              however, varied
                              > support among other classroom teachers. Unfortunately, the principal
                              of this
                              > school demonstrated little support (and respect) for Art which could
                              have made a
                              > "trickle-down" impression on my fellow teachers.
                              >
                              >
                              > Thanks again for your insights.
                              >
                              > Penny Lee
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ________________________________
                              > To: art_education@ yahoogroups. com
                              > From: jeffpridie@yahoo. com
                              > Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 07:00:46 -0700
                              > Subject: Re: [art_education] Advice
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Warning personal opinion here
                              >
                              > I to have fallen into the trap of the "poor art, its never taken
                              seriously by
                              > students, parents, community, administrators, and the list goes on"
                              >
                              > Teachers many times write surveys in such a way to "hear" what "they"
                              want to
                              > "hear". Change in any form is never clean nice and neat. Hearing
                              unpleasant
                              > comments also can be very damning to ones ego and esteem.
                              >
                              > So if you are ready for the truth survey your students. The truth
                              though has to
                              > be objective. The way you gather the truth has to be meaningful for
                              the
                              > student, valued and appreciated. As a teacher you have to "craft" the
                              survey so
                              > you gain the most insight as possible from the tool.
                              >
                              > Guard yourself and "not" take it personally. With all the well
                              intended lessons
                              > you may have developed students may not have connected to them. The
                              key to many
                              > "non-connected" lessons is the delivery system and the product. Were
                              students
                              > given enough "choices" to demonstrate knowledge, skill, understanding.
                              Was it
                              > age appropriate. Did students find ownership in the lesson, putting a
                              personal
                              > stamp on it?
                              >
                              > Finally with all well intended lessons some students will just simply
                              not do for
                              > reasons you do not control.
                              > Deep rooted personality issues, emotional issues, learning
                              disabilities,
                              > cultural issues. Finding the right trigger for these students is so
                              > individualized and takes time to find.
                              >
                              > I think with surveys written specifically for individual classes can
                              help
                              > identify some of the tools you will need to be successful. I caution
                              teachers
                              > using just a generic survey, a run off from the internet as it does
                              not address
                              > many times the individualized needs specific school environments have.
                              >
                              > Just some thoughts.
                              >
                              > Jeff (minnesota)
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ________________________________
                              >
                            • kmartist1@yahoo.com
                              Jeff, yours was some of the best advice I ve seen! Wish all of my children s teachers thought the same!
                              Message 14 of 20 , Aug 5, 2010
                                Jeff, yours was some of the best advice I've seen! Wish all of my children's teachers thought the same!

                              • Lynn Whitehead
                                I feel, as art teachers, our power to promote serious support of an art program lies in the amazing artwork of our students. I am fortunate to have been at my
                                Message 15 of 20 , Aug 5, 2010
                                  I feel, as art teachers, our power to promote serious support of an
                                  art program lies in the amazing artwork of our students. I am
                                  fortunate to have been at my elementry school for 10 years now. The
                                  parents can't imagine not having an art program. When families have
                                  had to move to another school in the district, without an art program,
                                  they report back that their children are receiving a lesser education
                                  as a result.

                                  So, the more we can expose parents and the community to tha fabulous
                                  art their kids are creating the better. Parents need to be your "best
                                  friends." My parents have gone to bat for me more than once when I
                                  have needed money or when the art program has been threatened in any
                                  way.

                                  I realize that budgetary woes are still a major problem but I also
                                  think we can and do have an amazing impact on our students and their
                                  families. I always love hearing, for example, a parent or regular
                                  classroom teacher say, "I can't believe that first grade students are
                                  capable of such sophisticated artwork."

                                  Keep up your passionate work for the inclusion of the arts in our
                                  students' lives.

                                  Lynn
                                  Portland, OR
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