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Re: [art_education] Re:what makes a piece an true work of art

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  • maryjo rosania
    I agree. I think it is more than just what I said - Intention -- there is so much that students could just take the time to discuss what they feel makes a work
    Message 1 of 8 , Sep 30, 2008
      I agree.
      I think it is more than just what I said - Intention -- there is so much that students could just take the time to discuss what they feel makes a work of art valid, honest....
      and that would be the lesson.
      MaryJo

      On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 1:36 PM, Glennis <glennisd@...> wrote:

      Thank you Jerimiah! I actually cringed when I saw the original
      questioned posted. Perhaps the subject can be personalized a bit by
      adding "to you?". And drop the word "true". What may be "true to me
      may not be true to anyone else. Or how about a list of questions one
      could ask oneself when viewing/hearing/feeling a work of art.

      that feels better to me.....i just don't believe there is a "true"
      answer to this age old question....

      --- In art_education@yahoogroups.com, "Martin, Jerimiah"
      <jemartin@...> wrote:
      >
      > This argument has been going on for over a hundred years (at least). You
      > can't describe it in a few sentences.
      >




      --
      MaryJo Rosania


    • Larry Seiler
      ... - - - - Yep...in truth, not many are educated even on the dialetics of worldview thinking, not many realize the general worldview positions people adapt
      Message 2 of 8 , Oct 1, 2008
        --- In art_education@yahoogroups.com, "Glennis" <glennisd@...> wrote:
        >
        > Thank you Jerimiah! I actually cringed when I saw the original
        > questioned posted. Perhaps the subject can be personalized a bit by
        > adding "to you?". And drop the word "true". What may be "true to me
        > may not be true to anyone else. Or how about a list of questions one
        > could ask oneself when viewing/hearing/feeling a work of art.

        - - - -


        Yep...in truth, not many are educated even on the dialetics of
        worldview thinking, not many realize the general worldview positions
        people adapt thru enculturation and education...(some of the major
        worldview positions are- secular humanism, cosmic humanism, Marxism,
        Biblical...etc.,) and each worldview has their construct or ideals
        related to areas biological, historical, psychological, theological,
        science, history...and so forth.

        Bottom line is we throw ideas around about what "ought" to
        be...without ever a consideration to inquire what ought ought to be?
        What determines to make a right right and a wrong wrong?

        It leads admittedly to a lot of argument, but often the heated side of
        argument is not realizing we are all prone to positing a worldview.
        We've adapted a worldview whether we know it or not. Recognizing the
        tenets of a worldview and where one is coming from in a great sense
        frees one up from falling into losing it...I guess, hahaaa...and one
        can simply internalize and recognize "oh...okay, s/he's voicing the
        position of...(insert, secular humanist...Cosmic
        humanist...Marxist...etc.,)"

        then you are free to hold disdain and disagreement perhaps with the
        worldview, but need not exercise hostility toward an individual. You
        see where it makes better sense to attack the opinion of the
        opinion'ator and not the opnionator.

        In this sense yes...what is "true to me" is so...because of a
        worldview. What is "true for you" is because of a worldview.

        Further, most worldviews are variable in their absolutes. Believing
        there are no absolutes.

        Funny when one states emphatically there are no absolute truths...for
        if that is what they believe, they have just stated in construct what
        they would want us to accept as an absolute...that, there are no
        absolutes.

        So...this does get much more complicated than many realize, and
        certainly most adults and even educators are not prepared to argue a
        point not even understanding worldview thinking and ethical systems in
        general.

        It is a frustration if you have an idea of what is important to teach
        in art...what is fundamental, what are important principles when every
        so many years new tenets of ideology and thought want to weigh in on
        the public education system. Money's from major institutions vie for
        influence at the university level on thought. Many think tank
        groups...social engineering, you name it. Way over most our
        heads...except for we in the classroom that experience new changes in
        teaching practices mandated from "above" and legislated.

        We have our hands full...just being motivators and encouragers in the
        classroom...don't we? Trying to get on the same page when we will not
        be able to agree on what makes an ought..."ought to be"...well, not
        likely to happen really...

        Think its interesting though. Pay attention to just how often you'll
        hear colleagues and people all around you throw what "ought to be"
        around. Might throw them a full curve if you interject and simply
        ask..."so...okay, what do you think makes a right right, and a wrong
        wrong?"

        Okay....call me crazy, or assume I've got too much time on my hand.

        hahahaaa...but, I love making art...and believe its worth a career to
        try and instill that into young lives. Here's to all of you this day
        driven to the same (raising my mug of coffee...!)

        Larry
      • shellysart
        Thank goodness someone said this....I also cringed when I saw the original post as this was my pet peeve while I was in college. A professor would grade the
        Message 3 of 8 , Oct 1, 2008
          Thank goodness someone said this....I also cringed when I saw the
          original post as this was my pet peeve while I was in college. A
          professor would grade the student's works based on the
          student's "motivation".
          Which, in our case was alot of students who would throw some found
          materials together and come up with some lame thing that they knew
          the professor would eat up.......I, on the other hand have a tendency
          to try and explore a more "traditional" knowledge of a particular
          material and see what you can do with it, ie....ways to work with
          different types of stone, wood, and other natural materials. I was
          always mocked at critiques as I didn't have a "cool/pc motivation".

          It is, always has been, and always will be a very hard thing for
          teachers to grade work and critique it.

          I, in my teaching, focus on what the assignment is, and whether the
          student completed it and actually did it to the best of their ability.
          If they rush through just to get done, and didn't use elements that
          were assigned, they would get marked down for that.

          As far as "critiques", that is a hard one. Again, I would have
          students use that same criteria and maybe talk about their initial
          reaction to the piece.

          I remember my first job out of college, I was working at a major
          metro Art museum and had some people from work over to my place for a
          get together and showed them some of my work hung in my house. This
          one woman (also a college prof) said "It's ok, but I wouldn't call it
          Art". It was, by far, the most ignorant statement I ever heard
          someone say about Art. Especially as a teacher. I am glad I didn't
          have her as a professor.

          Hopefully people will learn from that sort of statement.

          I agree that "to you?" is a more appropriate question as it is SO
          subjective.

          Shelly in Seattle





          --- In art_education@yahoogroups.com, "Glennis" <glennisd@...> wrote:
          >
          > Thank you Jerimiah! I actually cringed when I saw the original
          > questioned posted. Perhaps the subject can be personalized a bit by
          > adding "to you?". And drop the word "true". What may be "true to me
          > may not be true to anyone else. Or how about a list of questions
          one
          > could ask oneself when viewing/hearing/feeling a work of art.
          >
          > that feels better to me.....i just don't believe there is a "true"
          > answer to this age old question....
          >
          >
          > --- In art_education@yahoogroups.com, "Martin, Jerimiah"
          > <jemartin@> wrote:
          > >
          > > This argument has been going on for over a hundred years (at
          least). You
          > > can't describe it in a few sentences.
          > >
          >
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