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Re: the philosophy of our own choices

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  • Sarah
    Thanks for your reply, Glennis. I can certainly see how you can be product-oriented as you are an artist. I think you are in no way under-qualified and I
    Message 1 of 12 , Sep 4, 2008
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      Thanks for your reply, Glennis. I can certainly see how you can be product-oriented as
      you are an artist. I think you are in no way under-qualified and I appreciate your input. In
      reality, experience can be a far greater tool than a certification on paper.
      I unfortunately feel a pull between education and my own production of art. While
      teaching in a classroom may tie up my time to produce, I am hoping to also find it
      inspiring. I think it's important to teach children the process of creating art, making
      mistakes, and learning. I think this is how many school administrators may see it as well.
      Art always seems to be one of the first programs cut in schools, and I think that's because
      administrators can't see how the making of a product relates to education. That's why I
      feel it's safer to stay on the side of art being an educational process as far as the program
      is concerned. I hope by teaching art, more (older) children find this process enjoyable and
      begin to also focus on their product and how it conveys a message. I think that's what I
      was lacking in my high school education. In a small-town school the emphasis seemed to
      be to keep the students occupied.

      --- In art_education@yahoogroups.com, "Glennis" <glennisd@...> wrote:
      >
      > Sarah-
      > Since you asked....
      > and for what it's worth-
      > i pose the following;
      > i believe in teaching both. depends on the grade level and what you
      > are aiming for. teaching art processes help students to learn problem
      > solving skills that can be applied in all areas of life- so that's a
      > must.
      > having been (and continuing to be) a full time production artist in
      > ceramics and textiles one must be product based in order to survive
      > unless you want to have a 9-5, have a trust fund, or some other happy
      > life circumstance that makes it unnecessary to earn a living from
      > your work. what does the student want? or perhaps the parent who may
      > be paying for a 4 year degree....
      > i may be very unqualified to answer this question in this forum as i
      > only teach as a volunteer once a week to a 4th grade class in a public
      > school and have no formal art education degree.
      > i have however been doing this for over 10 years and have taught
      > hundreds of employees the production skills necessary to produce my
      > products in my own studio.
      >
      > just my thoughts...
      > teach more art!
      >
      > let's hear your beliefs as they currently stand...
      >
      > --- In art_education@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah" <altmans33@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello all! I am new to this group, but am very excited to be a
      > member. I am currently
      > > pursuing my Visual Arts Education certification at Eastern Michigan
      > University, and have
      > > been thinking at length about my own philosophy of teaching art. Do
      > any of you believe
      > > more or less in the process or the product? What are some of your
      > personal beliefs, what do
      > > you want your students to achieve, and why did you choose teaching?
      > Any insight would be
      > > very welcome and I will comment and post my own beliefs on the
      > subjects. Thank you!
      > >
      >
    • Sarah
      Thanks for your reply, Linda! This question comes up because I am currently going through an education program at the university level, and am taking a class
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 4, 2008
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        Thanks for your reply, Linda! This question comes up because I am currently going
        through an education program at the university level, and am taking a class where I have
        to come up with my own philosophy. This concept got me thinking because I knew I had
        wanted to teach art, I guess I just never really asked myself why. And what kind of a
        teacher would I be? As I replied to Glennis, I went to a very small high school where the
        art program was actually cut after I graduated. I want to be able to focus on the process
        as an educational experience, because I think administrators will view that as more
        beneficial than product. As my class continues, I am sure I will have plenty more input
        and ideas. Perhaps if this discussion remains on others' minds, I will post my written
        philosophy from the class.

        --- In art_education@yahoogroups.com, Linda Gomez <lindagomez11@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Hi Glenis and Sarah,
        >
        > I agree with Sarah that you have to consider both the process and
        > the end product although I am of the inclination that when teaching
        > young children the process is more important than the outcome.
        >
        > It is those problem solving skills that art encourages, taking risks and
        > thinking out of the box, also the mastering and chosing of materials
        > that is not learnt in any other subject and makes art so important.
        >
        > If children can experience creating their own imaginary cultures as part
        > of art in elementary school they may be better able to find their feet
        > in the growing maelstrom of global living. Art gives children a space to
        > experiment with ideas and feelings especially when the process is
        > acknowledged and the teacher is not pre occupied with getting results
        > to show anxious parents.
        >
        > Hope others contribute to this discussion as I believe it is something
        > anyone who teaches art needs to grapple with!
        >
        > Best wishes, Linda.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > To: art_education@...: glennisd@...: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 00:07:59 +0000Subject:
        [art_education] Re: the philosophy of our own choices
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Sarah-Since you asked....and for what it's worth-i pose the following;i believe in
        teaching both. depends on the grade level and what youare aiming for. teaching art
        processes help students to learn problemsolving skills that can be applied in all areas of
        life- so that's amust. having been (and continuing to be) a full time production artist
        inceramics and textiles one must be product based in order to surviveunless you want to
        have a 9-5, have a trust fund, or some other happylife circumstance that makes it
        unnecessary to earn a living fromyour work. what does the student want? or perhaps the
        parent who maybe paying for a 4 year degree....i may be very unqualified to answer this
        question in this forum as ionly teach as a volunteer once a week to a 4th grade class in a
        publicschool and have no formal art education degree.i have however been doing this for
        over 10 years and have taughthundreds of employees the production skills necessary to
        produce myproducts in my own studio.just my thoughts...teach more art!let's hear your
        beliefs as they currently stand...--- In art_education@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah"
        <altmans33@> wrote:>> Hello all! I am new to this group, but am very excited to be
        amember. I am currently > pursuing my Visual Arts Education certification at Eastern
        MichiganUniversity, and have > been thinking at length about my own philosophy of
        teaching art. Doany of you believe > more or less in the process or the product? What are
        some of yourpersonal beliefs, what do > you want your students to achieve, and why did
        you choose teaching?Any insight would be > very welcome and I will comment and post
        my own beliefs on thesubjects. Thank you!>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > _________________________________________________________________
        > Win New York holidays with Kellogg's & Live Search
        > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/111354033/direct/01/
        >
      • Sarah
        Thanks for your reply, Brandy! I agree with you and think you brought up some good points in that art is there to allow children to experiment and make
        Message 3 of 12 , Sep 4, 2008
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          Thanks for your reply, Brandy! I agree with you and think you brought up some good
          points in that art is there to allow children to experiment and make mistakes. Art was
          always a safe haven for me from science and math because I was drawn to that creativity.
          I don't remember many other classes in school that allowed for that same thought process
          and made me feel more accomplished. Do you teach younger children?

          --- In art_education@yahoogroups.com, "Brandy" <bergiemoore@...> wrote:
          >
          > Part of my philosophy involves doing projects that student's parents
          > won't let them do at home because it takes too much set up/break down
          > time, is too messy, or they just wouldn't know how to do. That is why
          > I am qualified to be art teacher.
          > Another part is to give them a space to make mistakes in. You don't
          > have any room to make mistakes in math, English or any other academic
          > subject that doesn't effect your grade, but that's true in art. Art
          > critics are based on effort, determination, creativity, and acquired
          > knowledge. I've failed to create a piece of art and still not failed
          > the grade of that project, and my students have done the same.
          > Sometimes things don't work out. Materials act in ways that you
          > didn't plan or couldn't have known about. But the point, the message
          > behind the art, or the effort was clearly demonstrated. I don't
          > punish students for being adventurous, taking risks, or working out
          > curiosities. I do have to see effort.
          > I find that lots of students don't put in the full effort in the
          > beginning of the year because they would rather fail a grade than put
          > themselves on the line. Perfectionism is a hard trait to work out and
          > acts overtime in art classes. I try hard to convey that their are no
          > mistakes in art; what we don't like is lesson in itself. We also
          > aren't allowed to erase any drawing errors in our newsprint pads.
          > Every line tells us what we see, what we thought we saw, and how we
          > got to that conclusion. No mistakes means no need for erasers.
          > Regards,
          > Brandy
          >
          >
          > --- In art_education@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah" <altmans33@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hello all! What are some of your personal beliefs, what do
          > > you want your students to achieve, and why did you choose teaching?
          > Any insight would be
          > > very welcome and I will comment and post my own beliefs on the
          > subjects. Thank you!
          > >
          >
        • MaryAnn Kohl
          It is developmentally appropriate in early childhood education, which is birth through grade 3, for children to explore and experiment in art, working through
          Message 4 of 12 , Sep 4, 2008
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            It is developmentally appropriate in early childhood education, which is birth through grade 3, for children to explore and experiment in art, working through the process of art. The finished product is an outcome of their exploration, not the reason for the art. Tah dah!

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            Bright Ring Publishing, Inc.
            PO Box 31338 • Bellingham, WA  98228
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            360 592 9201  office • 800 480 4278 •  360 592 4503  fax
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            On Sep 4, 2008, at 8:33 AM, Sarah wrote:

            Thanks for your reply, Brandy! I agree with you and think you brought up some good 
            points in that art is there to allow children to experiment and make mistakes. Art was 
            always a safe haven for me from science and math because I was drawn to that creativity. 
            I don't remember many other classes in school that allowed for that same thought process 
            and made me feel more accomplished. Do you teach younger children? 

            --- In art_education@ yahoogroups. com, "Brandy" <bergiemoore@ ...> wrote:
            >
            > Part of my philosophy involves doing projects that student's parents
            > won't let them do at home because it takes too much set up/break down
            > time, is too messy, or they just wouldn't know how to do. That is why
            > I am qualified to be art teacher. 
            > Another part is to give them a space to make mistakes in. You don't
            > have any room to make mistakes in math, English or any other academic
            > subject that doesn't effect your grade, but that's true in art. Art
            > critics are based on effort, determination, creativity, and acquired
            > knowledge. I've failed to create a piece of art and still not failed
            > the grade of that project, and my students have done the same. 
            > Sometimes things don't work out. Materials act in ways that you
            > didn't plan or couldn't have known about. But the point, the message
            > behind the art, or the effort was clearly demonstrated. I don't
            > punish students for being adventurous, taking risks, or working out
            > curiosities. I do have to see effort. 
            > I find that lots of students don't put in the full effort in the
            > beginning of the year because they would rather fail a grade than put
            > themselves on the line. Perfectionism is a hard trait to work out and
            > acts overtime in art classes. I try hard to convey that their are no
            > mistakes in art; what we don't like is lesson in itself. We also
            > aren't allowed to erase any drawing errors in our newsprint pads. 
            > Every line tells us what we see, what we thought we saw, and how we
            > got to that conclusion. No mistakes means no need for erasers. 
            > Regards,
            > Brandy
            > 
            > 
            > --- In art_education@ yahoogroups. com, "Sarah" <altmans33@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hello all! What are some of your personal beliefs, what do 
            > > you want your students to achieve, and why did you choose teaching?
            > Any insight would be 
            > > very welcome and I will comment and post my own beliefs on the
            > subjects. Thank you!
            > >
            >


          • Cyn Blamire
            As Art Educators we have to walk a fine line between process and production. We all value process and we all know this is more important to a child s
            Message 5 of 12 , Sep 4, 2008
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              As Art Educators we have to walk a fine line between process and production. We all value process and we all know this is more important to a child's development than production.

              However, we are often judged by our students' production.

              How to balance these issues is really tough when you are teaching with very limited time and resources.

              Cynthia
              K-5, FL
            • Glennis
              re: Cyn s comment That is a sad state of affairs- especially in K-5! Here in the LBUSD (Long Beach CA) we have 50 elementary schools and not a single art
              Message 6 of 12 , Sep 4, 2008
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                re: Cyn's comment

                That is a sad state of affairs- especially in K-5!

                Here in the LBUSD (Long Beach CA) we have 50 elementary schools and
                not a single art specialist or dedicated art room in the district.
                We have mandated state art standards for K-5 though!

                Since there are no standardized tests with $ attached to results- it
                gets pretty much ignored.
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