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PBS - Simon Schama's Power of Art

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  • Judy Decker
    Dear Art Educators, PBS has a new series that may be of interest to you. Here is the web site for Simon Schama s Power of Art
    Message 1 of 25 , Jun 19, 2007
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      Dear Art Educators,

      PBS has a new series that may be of interest to you.
      Here is the web site for Simon Schama's Power of Art
      http://www.pbs.org/wnet/powerofart/
      Site includes lesson plans.

      The series began last night with Van Gogh and Picasso. PBS usually
      shows them again sometime.

      Here is the New York Times article about the series:
      http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/18/arts/television/18stan.html?ref=design

      More form New York Times:
      http://www.nytimes.com/pages/arts/design/index.html

      Regards,

      Judy Decker
    • Amy Broady
      Thanks for the heads-up on this, Judy. I caught just part of the Van Gogh episode last night. It looked interesting. I m now set up to get email reminders. I
      Message 2 of 25 , Jun 19, 2007
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        Thanks for the heads-up on this, Judy. I caught just part of the Van
        Gogh episode last night. It looked interesting.

        I'm now set up to get email reminders.

        I just googled "PBS Schedule" to get the right link to PBS. Then I
        submitted my zip code, verified my preferred PBS affiliate, and
        searched for "Simon Schama." (My first search for "Art" turned up
        lots of unrelated shows, especially "Arthur.") Once I found the show
        listings and when they'd be showing on my local station, I thought I
        was doing pretty well. But then I saw the email reminder option. :-)
        Even better!

        At first it was going to send me the reminder the day before...no
        doubt I'd forget in a day's time. But there is a way to change it so
        you get the reminders the day of the show. Perfect.

        Now to get the DVD burner in sync...might have to go to DH for some
        assistance there.

        Hope you all are enjoying June. If you're not out of school yet,
        surely soon?!
        Amy in TN
      • katday2001
        Thanks for the reminder! I did catch both Van Gogh and, afterwards, Picasso. It is indeed interesting for us art teachers. Some of the content would not fly
        Message 3 of 25 , Jun 20, 2007
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          Thanks for the reminder! I did catch both Van Gogh and, afterwards,
          Picasso. It is indeed interesting for us art teachers. Some of the
          content would not fly in public school; at least, not around here. I
          was hoping for a more entertaining insightful piece we could use in
          school, but this is definitely geared for adults.

          More artists are coming up next week.

          On another note, has or is anyone reading "Rethinking the Curriculum
          in Art?" I would like to discuss it, if possible. Thanks.

          Kathleen Day
          NEVC, Missouri

          > PBS has a new series that may be of interest to you.
          > Here is the web site for Simon Schama's Power of Art
          > http://www.pbs.org/wnet/powerofart/
          > Site includes lesson plans.
          >
          > The series began last night with Van Gogh and Picasso. PBS usually
          > shows them again sometime.
          >
          > Here is the New York Times article about the series:
          > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/18/arts/television/18stan.html?ref=design
          >
          > More form New York Times:
          > http://www.nytimes.com/pages/arts/design/index.html
          >
          > Regards,
          >
          > Judy Decker
          >
        • kamla ravikumar
          Thanks for the information about such a program .I wish I could view it in my country!! Kamla ... Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your
          Message 4 of 25 , Jun 21, 2007
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            Thanks for the information about such a program .I wish I could view it in my country!!
             
            Kamla


            Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more.
          • valjones44
            ... On another note, has or is anyone reading Rethinking the Curriculum in Art? I would like to discuss it, if possible. Thanks. Kathleen Day NEVC, Missouri
            Message 5 of 25 , Jun 21, 2007
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              --- In art_education@yahoogroups.com, "katday2001" <neato23@...> wrote:
              On another note, has or is anyone reading "Rethinking the Curriculum
              in Art?" I would like to discuss it, if possible. Thanks.

              Kathleen Day
              NEVC, Missouri


              Kathleen, I agree with you on the PBS series, and our local public
              televison station has seemed to by pass the Picasso segment. No one in
              our area has seen it or can locate it on any time slot or any day?
              strange......

              Also the book "Rethinking Curriculum in Art" - is that the Davis
              publication by Dr. Marilyn Stewart and Sydney Walker? I have read at
              least half of it during the school year and will get back into my summer
              reading here soon - (I have stacks of books to read!) Yikes.

              Val Jones

              Guntersville, AL
            • MerylWeber@aol.com
              I have read Rethinking Curriculum and I really like it.  Marilyn Stewart is writing the new elementary art textbooks for Davis and I was able to see some of
              Message 6 of 25 , Jun 22, 2007
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                I have read Rethinking Curriculum and I really like it.  Marilyn Stewart is writing the new elementary art textbooks for Davis and I was able to see some of it at NAEA.  I think it is an excellent read for art teachers because I think the "big idea" approach is going to be big in art ed.  I bought the book for all the art teachers in my district. 
                Also ,I am at a Curriculum Institute and they showed Daniel Pink's video.  It was almost the same speech he made at NAEA and is definetly worth seeing and showing to you staff or at an inservice. 

                Meryl Weber
                Visual Arts Coordinator
                Berkeley County School District
                Moncks Corner, SC 29464


                -----Original Message-----
                From: valjones44
                To: art_education@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 4:25 pm
                Subject: [art_education] Re: PBS - Simon Schama's Power of Art/ rethinking curriculum in art



                --- In art_education@ yahoogroups. com, "katday2001" > wrote:
                On another note, has or is anyone reading "Rethinking the Curriculum
                in Art?" I would like to discuss it, if possible. Thanks.

                Kathleen Day
                NEVC, Missouri

                Kathleen, I agree with you on the PBS series, and our local public
                televison station has seemed to by pass the Picasso segment. No one in
                our area has seen it or can locate it on any time slot or any day?
                strange..... .

                Also the book "Rethinking Curriculum in Art" - is that the Davis
                publication by Dr. Marilyn Stewart and Sydney Walker? I have read at
                least half of it during the school year and will get back into my summer
                reading here soon - (I have stacks of books to read!) Yikes.

                Val Jones

                Guntersville, AL


                AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
              • Hillmer, Jan
                I just purchased it and will read it upon arrival. It ll be on the top of my stack of books. Yes, I d like to be a part of the discussion. Jan in Tampa ...
                Message 7 of 25 , Jun 22, 2007
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                  I just purchased it and will read it upon arrival. It’ll be on the top of my stack of books.

                   

                  Yes, I’d like to be a part of the discussion.

                  Jan in Tampa

                   

                   


                  --- In art_education@ yahoogroups. com, "K. wrote:
                  On another note, has or is anyone reading "Rethinking the Curriculum
                  in Art?" I would like to discuss it, if possible. Thanks.

                  Kathleen Day
                  NEVC,
                  Missouri

                  Kathleen, I agree with you on the PBS series, and our local public
                  televison station has seemed to by pass the Picasso segment. No one in
                  our area has seen it or can locate it on any time slot or any day?
                  strange..... .

                  Also the book "Rethinking Curriculum in Art" - is that the Davis
                  publication by Dr. Marilyn Stewart and Sydney Walker? I have read at
                  least half of it during the school year and will get back into my summer
                  reading here soon - (I have stacks of books to read!) Yikes.

                  Val Jones

                  Guntersville, AL

                • beyondskyline
                  I read it, and wasn t sold on it. I think that the authors presume that they can filter art into themes. I d like to know why they think so. Such
                  Message 8 of 25 , Jun 27, 2007
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                    I read it, and wasn't sold on it. I think that the authors presume that
                    they can filter art into themes. I'd like to know why they think so.
                    Such interpretation is personal. In an art education class I was
                    taking, someone said that "The Scream" was "about" sexual identity.
                    What about anxiety? What about things that the audience and/or artist
                    does not know about? What about freedom of interpretation? Sorry, but I
                    don't feel taht the process of art education is that simple.

                    Sharon
                    NJ
                  • katday2001
                    We have a discussion of Rethinking the Curriculum in Art going on in my state art teacher group, but no one has read the book, so I d love to know how people
                    Message 9 of 25 , Jun 28, 2007
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                      We have a discussion of Rethinking the Curriculum in Art going on in
                      my state art teacher group, but no one has read the book, so I'd love
                      to know how people are putting the ideas in use. There are a couple
                      of other books along the same lines, too, so those who have read those
                      books should jump in.

                      I agree that this is the future of art education, at least it should
                      be. I don't see it as inhibiting kids to see art in one
                      interpretation at all, but freeing all kids, not just artists, to
                      enjoy art on a level that reaches beyond art appreciation and
                      creation. We all know that precious few students go on to practice
                      art. I've had too many kids leave class at the end of the year not
                      really understanding why art is in the curriculum at all, and if those
                      people serve on a school board some day, we may all be out of a job!
                      Sure, I tell them why art is important, but I think the daily focus on
                      a larger life element will drive the point home better. This Big Idea
                      coordinates our lessons into a unit-- say, "Throughout time, people
                      have felt compelled to respond to or comment on their environment, be
                      it political, emotional, or geographical." From there, you go on to
                      examine regional art or expressionism, and interpretation and art
                      creating are still individual-- it's just now the student is aware of
                      commenting on his/her environment instead of just painting a landscape.

                      It is a theme, but not so much a theme as an idea. Does that help?
                      I think this book is open to interpretation, so would love to hear
                      others!
                      Kathleen

                      --- In art_education@yahoogroups.com, "beyondskyline"
                      <beyondskyline@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I read it, and wasn't sold on it. I think that the authors presume that
                      > they can filter art into themes. I'd like to know why they think so.
                      > Such interpretation is personal. In an art education class I was
                      > taking, someone said that "The Scream" was "about" sexual identity.
                      > What about anxiety? What about things that the audience and/or artist
                      > does not know about? What about freedom of interpretation? Sorry, but I
                      > don't feel taht the process of art education is that simple.
                      >
                      > Sharon
                      > NJ
                      >
                    • Hillmer, Jan
                      One of the things I am just not understanding are Big Ideas. Not just in reference to this book, but in general. Can somebody help me out? I feel really
                      Message 10 of 25 , Jun 28, 2007
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                        One of the things I am just not understanding are “Big Ideas.”  Not just in reference to this book, but in general.  Can somebody help me out?  I feel really dense, and probably DO know them, but when trying to go for a “big idea,” I always wonder if it’s “big” enough.  (Multiple choice tests are hard for me, too – I can find a right answer in every choice!) I have the book Understanding By Design by Grant Wiggins, and may be I need to go back and reread that.  It’s been a few years.

                         

                        I have ordered Rethinking The Curriculum in Art, but it has not arrived.  Maybe that will help.

                         

                        Jan

                         

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: art_education@yahoogroups.com [mailto:art_education@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of katday2001
                        Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 9:15 AM
                        To: art_education@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [art_education] Re: rethinking curriculum in art

                         

                        We have a discussion of Rethinking the Curriculum in Art going on in
                        my state art teacher group, but no one has read the book, so I'd love
                        to know how people are putting the ideas in use.

                        We all know that precious few students go on to practice
                        art. I've had too many kids leave class at the end of the year not
                        really understanding why art is in the curriculum at all, and if those
                        people serve on a school board some day, we may all be out of a job!
                        Sure, I tell them why art is important, but I think the daily focus on
                        a larger life element will drive the point home better. This Big Idea
                        coordinates our lessons into a unit-- say, "Throughout time, people
                        have felt compelled to respond to or comment on their environment, be
                        it political, emotional, or geographical. " From there, you go on to
                        examine regional art or expressionism, and interpretation and art
                        creating are still individual-- it's just now the student is aware of
                        commenting on his/her environment instead of just painting a landscape.

                        It is a theme, but not so much a theme as an idea. Does that help?
                        I think this book is open to interpretation, so would love to hear
                        others!
                        Kathleen

                        --- In art_education@ yahoogroups. com, "beyondskyline"
                        <beyondskyline@ ...> wrote:

                        >
                        > I read it, and wasn't sold on it. I think that the authors presume that
                        > they can filter art into themes. I'd like to know why they think so.
                        > Such interpretation is personal. In an art education class I was
                        > taking, someone said that "The Scream" was "about"
                        sexual identity.
                        > What about anxiety? What about things that the audience and/or artist
                        > does not know about? What about freedom of interpretation? Sorry, but I
                        > don't feel taht the process of art education is that simple.
                        >
                        >
                        Sharon
                        > NJ
                        >

                      • Patricia Knott
                        ... Re-thinking curriculum is something we must constantly and consistently do. Everything changes all the time. We have to decide what is best to regard and
                        Message 11 of 25 , Jun 28, 2007
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                          On Jun 28, 2007, at 9:31 AM, Hillmer, Jan wrote:

                          > One of the things I am just not understanding are “Big Ideas.” Not
                          > just in reference to this book, but in general. Can somebody help
                          > me out? I feel really dense, and probably DO know them, but when
                          > trying to go for a “big idea,” I always wonder if it’s “big”
                          > enough. (Multiple choice tests are hard for me, too – I can find a
                          > right answer in every choice!) I have the book Understanding By
                          > Design by Grant Wiggins, and may be I need to go back and reread
                          > that. It’s been a few years.
                          Re-thinking curriculum is something we must constantly and
                          consistently do. Everything changes all the time. We have to decide
                          what is best to regard and what needs to be let go of. .... and
                          maybe, what is the stuff that needs to be let go of that can be
                          "snuck in" by alternative means .

                          The Big Ideas are very simply ----- what do you want the student to
                          leave the lesson, the unit, the class with??????? and then you design
                          the unit to show how you get the kids to get the big idea-- and when
                          they finish the unit there is student articulation of the big idea
                          you/they were trying to achieve.

                          Let's take something simple
                          Let's say the big idea is -- Why is "value" important when
                          representing an observation in a pencil drawing?
                          step back
                          what is value?
                          what is black and white?
                          how does the light source affect ?
                          how do you control your tool to achieve the value?

                          what do you have to teach in order to get the student to know there
                          is a process? and mostly what is important?
                          what will make the thinking artist?
                          how do you make the exercise of duplicating values relevant? what is
                          the end result?
                          and then you have to find the subject matter that will cause them to
                          do the value drawing

                          most of my curriculum is about bigger questions-- questions about the
                          cultural/societal impact of the expressions

                          I value the Wiggins design because it has made me always consider
                          what I am presenting -- is there lasting value in the lesson/unit?
                          I'm writing curriculum at the moment . I do not write lesson plans or
                          projects into my curriculum. Those are how you achieve the
                          objectives. The objectives are pretty much set by the standards... so
                          what are the big questions?
                          Every time I write, no matter on what grade level, my big question is
                          "what's the impact?" and how will this make the student make a
                          statement? sometimes my big questions are just about the steps to
                          achieve a skill, but most often my big questions are about how an
                          observation can translate to art regardless of the skill.

                          Read Understanding by Design
                          there's no art in it, but the process can be helpful to determining
                          just what we have to ask ourselves before we ask the kids. Sometimes
                          I wonder how much teachers ask if what they present means much to
                          the kids. We have to find the balance between tradition and what will
                          be.

                          sometimes I wonder when I go through the zillions of lessons on the
                          web ----- what is the value, and if I was 14 years old why would I care?

                          Art ed is at an exciting crossroad. It's going to take much much more
                          than sharing lesson plans to make art ed go forward.
                          So, I'll confess, that I am confused as anybody as to what the big
                          ideas are.

                          Patty
                        • katday2001
                          Patty hits the nail on the head with her definition of the Big Idea as something you want your kids to take away from your classes. The Big Idea seems to be
                          Message 12 of 25 , Jun 29, 2007
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                            Patty hits the nail on the head with her definition of the Big Idea as
                            something you want your kids to take away from your classes. The Big
                            Idea seems to be defined differently by different people. I like the
                            way Patty says 'step back' because it's so much easier to begin with a
                            project. For years, I have surfed the lesson plans and gone to local
                            meetings to gather lesson plans, ordered the supplies, and
                            enthusiastically had the students make the really cool thing or follow
                            this really cool process, with some art critiques thrown in. It's
                            easier to just do projects and my students like it when I say do this
                            and this and this, come by and help them, and they hand it it, ready
                            for the next assignment. It's what they do in other classes-- read the
                            material, do the questions, and they like what is familiar.

                            However, this is not making them think. We have not really learned
                            anything together except how to layer tissue paper with gel medium, or
                            how to make the apples and pears look 3D. The Rethinking book (and
                            others?) stresses that we must have an inquiry-based classroom-- with
                            kids constructing their own meaning to the questions they've devised.
                            So, after you have your Big Idea (and I've AGONIZED over getting it
                            perfect), you generate some questions to ask the students, and these
                            questions keep the Idea going in the classes to come. I guess your
                            big idea can be concerned with art, but it can also have
                            farther-reaching effects, things that affect their student lives or
                            the world. They will learn that art has affected and continues to
                            affect everything. And, they may come away with the concept that they
                            can respond to their world visually and recognize that others have
                            done so. They learn best when the Big Idea is repeated, which is why
                            you assign many tasks based upon it, not just one project. And the
                            tasks are often research to answer questions, or writing, or
                            discussions---- small group and whole class--- not just art-creating.

                            I don't really know how the art teachers of the world are teaching
                            art-- is everyone doing as I have, find lessons, teach the e's and p's
                            and techniques through these lessons, throw up some
                            posters/slides/internet sites to critique? And move onto the next
                            technique/art standard/e or p?
                            Kathleen
                            PS. And Jan, I, too, can find value in every answer on the multiple
                            choice test! Maybe it's because we're such creative thinkers!?
                          • Patricia Knott
                            ... These are very interesting questions for all of us to question. I have my days when I m too stressed or tired to go to class with a big idea, but on those
                            Message 13 of 25 , Jun 29, 2007
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                              On Jun 29, 2007, at 9:19 AM, katday2001 wrote:

                              > . It's
                              > easier to just do projects and my students like it when I say do this
                              > and this and this, come by and help them, and they hand it it, ready
                              > for the next assignment. It's what they do in other classes-- read the
                              > material, do the questions, and they like what is familiar.
                              >
                              > However, this is not making them think.
                              >
                              > I don't really know how the art teachers of the world are teaching
                              > art-- is everyone doing as I have, find lessons, teach the e's and p's
                              > and techniques through these lessons, throw up some
                              > posters/slides/internet sites to critique? And move onto the next
                              > technique/art standard/e or p?

                              These are very interesting questions for all of us to question.

                              I have my days when I'm too stressed or tired to go to class with a
                              big idea,
                              but
                              on those days I always feel like a fraud

                              on those days when I'm not prepared with a big idea --- I'm not a
                              teacher.

                              I labor over the what if's and what cans be's
                              and when I don't have the energy to ask the big questions, I feel
                              like I have not done my job.

                              The only way art survives is NOT being like any other class. The only
                              way art survives is through the thinking process and validating that
                              process that does not mean there is a yes or no answer like they
                              encounter in other courses.
                              The E's and P's are easy
                              and with what is happening in art who cares?
                              Latching onto "something" that makes them want to make an expression
                              is all that matters. There are plenty of ways to get to the E's and
                              P's-- it's getting to the ideas that comes first...

                              But

                              if there is no idea to start with , where do you go from there?
                              we can go round and about on how to get kids to get to 500 year old
                              ideas about art

                              How DO we take where they are at and transform it to where it can be?
                              How do we take the notions and make it relevant for them?
                              Time seems to be lacking from the E's and P's, don't you think?

                              Patty
                            • Hillmer, Jan
                              Gosh, I m glad we are having this conversation. I guess one way to get past the Ps and Es and make them think is to find a way to present the lesson so that
                              Message 14 of 25 , Jun 29, 2007
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                                Gosh, I’m glad we are having this conversation.

                                 

                                I guess one way to get past the Ps and Es and make them think is to find a way to present the lesson so that the students are solving the problem. To not say do this and this and this. Ultimately that probably means the teacher does not have a clear idea of the solution.   That way all students are exploring in many directions, and you are really working towards getting the students to think like an artist and solve their own variation of the question/answer/idea their own way.  If you think about it, it’s the thinking and application of the thought that we’re about in our classes.  Which I guess means that the Big Questions can be pretty broad in scope.  And now I’m back to my question of yesterday – exactly what is a big question or a big idea.  The question that stirs the student to create and answer it? Kinda like you said below,” Latching onto "something" that makes them want to make an expression  is all that matters. There are plenty of ways to get to the E's and P's-- it's getting to the ideas that comes first...”

                                 

                                 

                                Jan in Tampa

                                 

                                 



                                > . It's
                                > easier to just do projects and my students like it when I say do this
                                > and this and this, come by and help them, and they hand it it, ready
                                > for the next assignment. It's what they do in other classes-- read the
                                > material, do the questions, and they like what is familiar.
                                >
                                > However, this is not making them think.
                                >
                                > I don't really know how the art teachers of the world are teaching
                                > art-- is everyone doing as I have, find lessons, teach the e's and p's
                                > and techniques through these lessons, throw up some
                                > posters/slides/ internet sites to critique? And move onto the next
                                > technique/art standard/e or p?

                                These are very interesting questions for all of us to question.

                                I have my days when I'm too stressed or tired to go to class with a
                                big idea,
                                but
                                on those days I always feel like a fraud

                                on those days when I'm not prepared with a big idea --- I'm not a
                                teacher.

                                I labor over the what if's and what cans be's
                                and when I don't have the energy to ask the big questions, I feel
                                like I have not done my job.

                                The only way art survives is NOT being like any other class. The only
                                way art survives is through the thinking process and validating that
                                process that does not mean there is a yes or no answer like they
                                encounter in other courses.
                                The E's and P's are easy
                                and with what is happening in art who cares?
                                Latching onto "something" that makes them want to make an expression
                                is all that matters. There are plenty of ways to get to the E's and
                                P's-- it's getting to the ideas that comes first...

                                But

                                if there is no idea to start with , where do you go from there?
                                we can go round and about on how to get kids to get to 500 year old
                                ideas about art

                                How DO we take where they are at and transform it to where it can be?
                                How do we take the notions and make it relevant for them?
                                Time seems to be lacking from the E's and P's, don't you think?

                                Patty

                              • katday2001
                                Great discussion! Larry points out the opportunity and even necessity of including nature in some of our Big Questions. Mankind and Nature is one of the
                                Message 15 of 25 , Jun 30, 2007
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                                  Great discussion!
                                  Larry points out the opportunity and even necessity of including
                                  nature in some of our Big Questions. Mankind and Nature is one of the
                                  topics suggested by Rethinking the Curriculum in Art.

                                  If I may share some of my personal experiences with students and
                                  nature....I teach in a rural area, and farmers' kids are very aware of
                                  weather and nature's impact on their livelihood. All the boys enjoy
                                  hunting and fishing here, maybe because their parents cannot afford or
                                  do not see the value in buying them a lot of electronics (they all
                                  have iPods, though....). I am a Baby Boomer, and often took my kids
                                  camping and floating, an activity we still enjoy when we can get
                                  together. On a daily basis, though, my boys preferred playing video
                                  games over going outside to play. My daughter is fortunate to live
                                  near some woods dedicated to local recreation (mountain bike
                                  trails)but she never takes her kids there to explore-- too much
                                  trouble. When I come to visit once a year (they live half-way across
                                  the country), I take my granddaughter hiking there every day. So, I
                                  think the main burden of acquainting our children with nature lies in
                                  the family, since we are stuck in a classroom most of the year. But,
                                  we as art teachers have many good opportunities, and the Big Idea can
                                  be a good starting place, because it reinforces the idea beyond a few
                                  trips outside to draw.

                                  I am no expert in designing "the Big Idea", but I'll give it a stab.
                                  If you begin with nature, you might word it something like....Nature's
                                  beauty and unpredictability affect people on a daily basis. From
                                  there, you develop some key concepts, such as: One of the most
                                  interesting things about the natural world is it is ever-changing;
                                  Natural disasters are often in the news; Since the dawn of time,
                                  Mankind has responded to Nature by recording it as visual art; Many
                                  people feel a spiritual connection when they experience Nature
                                  first-hand.

                                  You may begin to see many possible lesson plans from this, for all
                                  grades. If you can coordinate it with science classes, so much the
                                  better. You really need to read the book to get the whole picture,
                                  but this is a start, I hope, on showing what a Big Idea can look like.

                                  Is anyone currently working on or has anyone designed units using the
                                  Big Idea? I'm working on a flow-chart to help me plan. There is a
                                  worksheet in the back of the book, but I like the flowchart to help me
                                  envision how the parts connect.
                                  Kathleen



                                  --- In art_education@yahoogroups.com, "Hillmer, Jan" <hillmjan@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Gosh, I'm glad we are having this conversation.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I guess one way to get past the Ps and Es and make them think is to find
                                  > a way to present the lesson so that the students are solving the
                                  > problem. To not say do this and this and this. Ultimately that probably
                                  > means the teacher does not have a clear idea of the solution. That way
                                  > all students are exploring in many directions, and you are really
                                  > working towards getting the students to think like an artist and solve
                                  > their own variation of the question/answer/idea their own way. If you
                                  > think about it, it's the thinking and application of the thought that
                                  > we're about in our classes. Which I guess means that the Big Questions
                                  > can be pretty broad in scope. And now I'm back to my question of
                                  > yesterday - exactly what is a big question or a big idea. The question
                                  > that stirs the student to create and answer it? Kinda like you said
                                  > below," Latching onto "something" that makes them want to make an
                                  > expression is all that matters. There are plenty of ways to get to the
                                  > E's and P's-- it's getting to the ideas that comes first..."
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Jan in Tampa
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > > . It's
                                  > > easier to just do projects and my students like it when I say do this
                                  > > and this and this, come by and help them, and they hand it it, ready
                                  > > for the next assignment. It's what they do in other classes-- read the
                                  > > material, do the questions, and they like what is familiar.
                                  > >
                                  > > However, this is not making them think.
                                  > >
                                  > > I don't really know how the art teachers of the world are teaching
                                  > > art-- is everyone doing as I have, find lessons, teach the e's and p's
                                  > > and techniques through these lessons, throw up some
                                  > > posters/slides/internet sites to critique? And move onto the next
                                  > > technique/art standard/e or p?
                                  >
                                  > These are very interesting questions for all of us to question.
                                  >
                                  > I have my days when I'm too stressed or tired to go to class with a
                                  > big idea,
                                  > but
                                  > on those days I always feel like a fraud
                                  >
                                  > on those days when I'm not prepared with a big idea --- I'm not a
                                  > teacher.
                                  >
                                  > I labor over the what if's and what cans be's
                                  > and when I don't have the energy to ask the big questions, I feel
                                  > like I have not done my job.
                                  >
                                  > The only way art survives is NOT being like any other class. The only
                                  > way art survives is through the thinking process and validating that
                                  > process that does not mean there is a yes or no answer like they
                                  > encounter in other courses.
                                  > The E's and P's are easy
                                  > and with what is happening in art who cares?
                                  > Latching onto "something" that makes them want to make an expression
                                  > is all that matters. There are plenty of ways to get to the E's and
                                  > P's-- it's getting to the ideas that comes first...
                                  >
                                  > But
                                  >
                                  > if there is no idea to start with , where do you go from there?
                                  > we can go round and about on how to get kids to get to 500 year old
                                  > ideas about art
                                  >
                                  > How DO we take where they are at and transform it to where it can be?
                                  > How do we take the notions and make it relevant for them?
                                  > Time seems to be lacking from the E's and P's, don't you think?
                                  >
                                  > Patty
                                  >
                                • Larry Seiler
                                  coincidentally...last night I saw Northland Adventures with Dave Carlson...a once per week Wisconsin outdoors television program, and I m sitting in bed
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Jul 1 5:47 AM
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                                    coincidentally...last night I saw Northland Adventures with Dave
                                    Carlson...a once per week Wisconsin outdoors television program, and
                                    I'm sitting in bed reading thru my copy of "Last Child in the Woods"
                                    and on comes a segment on Richard Louv and the discussion of nature
                                    deficit disorder among children...one cause of ADHD as research seems
                                    to be showing...and the importance of getting children out of the
                                    house and outdoors exploring.

                                    Here are a couple websites...the first appears to be Richard Louv's
                                    own website...
                                    http://www.thefuturesedge.com/

                                    and be sure to scroll down and check out their link- Children and
                                    Nature Network...

                                    a couple short exposes...
                                    http://www.hookedonnature.org/lastchild.html

                                    and here, Richard Louv addresses the resources government house
                                    committee...in pdf format-
                                    http://gov-housecommittee.notlong.com

                                    I'm already planning on getting the book into the hands of our
                                    counselor...and can see the need for grants to provide a few field
                                    trips in our area to augment for some art lessons.

                                    I already teach landscape painting and many nature projects, but
                                    feeling its certainly not enough. The rest of staff has to get an
                                    understanding, and especially our sciences department. A bit more
                                    hands on experiences...

                                    Larry
                                  • beyondskyline
                                    Can someone please spell out what P s and E s are? Sharon
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Jul 1 7:30 AM
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                                      Can someone please spell out what "P's" and "E's" are?


                                      Sharon
                                    • Jeff Pridie
                                      Sharon, Principles and Elements of Design. The framework of many art curriculums. Jeff (Minnesota) ...
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Jul 1 11:02 AM
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                                        Sharon,

                                        Principles and Elements of Design. The framework of
                                        many art curriculums.

                                        Jeff (Minnesota)
                                        --- beyondskyline <beyondskyline@...> wrote:

                                        > Can someone please spell out what "P's" and "E's"
                                        > are?
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Sharon
                                        >
                                        >




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                                      • Eileen Ciavarella
                                        I am so glad that I have joined this listserv you all make me think about so many things. I am in the process of writing curriculum for the first time. I am a
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Jul 1 11:51 AM
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                                          I am so glad that I have joined this listserv you all make me think about so
                                          many things.
                                          I am in the process of writing curriculum for the first time. I am a
                                          relatively new teacher and I feel like there is so much more for me to
                                          learn.
                                          I identified with everything that you said Patty. I have taught my classes
                                          the same way. And often I felt like what have the kids really come away
                                          with. Using "Big Ideas" as the basis of curriculum really makes sense.

                                          By the way, I always thought I was the only one who could find value in
                                          every one of the multiple choice answers.

                                          Eileen

                                          >From: "katday2001" <neato23@...>
                                          >Reply-To: art_education@yahoogroups.com
                                          >To: art_education@yahoogroups.com
                                          >Subject: [art_education] Re: rethinking curriculum in art - what's a "Big
                                          >Idea?"
                                          >Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 13:19:12 -0000
                                          >
                                          >Patty hits the nail on the head with her definition of the Big Idea as
                                          >something you want your kids to take away from your classes. The Big
                                          >Idea seems to be defined differently by different people. I like the
                                          >way Patty says 'step back' because it's so much easier to begin with a
                                          >project. For years, I have surfed the lesson plans and gone to local
                                          >meetings to gather lesson plans, ordered the supplies, and
                                          >enthusiastically had the students make the really cool thing or follow
                                          >this really cool process, with some art critiques thrown in. It's
                                          >easier to just do projects and my students like it when I say do this
                                          >and this and this, come by and help them, and they hand it it, ready
                                          >for the next assignment. It's what they do in other classes-- read the
                                          >material, do the questions, and they like what is familiar.
                                          >
                                          >However, this is not making them think. We have not really learned
                                          >anything together except how to layer tissue paper with gel medium, or
                                          >how to make the apples and pears look 3D. The Rethinking book (and
                                          >others?) stresses that we must have an inquiry-based classroom-- with
                                          >kids constructing their own meaning to the questions they've devised.
                                          > So, after you have your Big Idea (and I've AGONIZED over getting it
                                          >perfect), you generate some questions to ask the students, and these
                                          >questions keep the Idea going in the classes to come. I guess your
                                          >big idea can be concerned with art, but it can also have
                                          >farther-reaching effects, things that affect their student lives or
                                          >the world. They will learn that art has affected and continues to
                                          >affect everything. And, they may come away with the concept that they
                                          >can respond to their world visually and recognize that others have
                                          >done so. They learn best when the Big Idea is repeated, which is why
                                          >you assign many tasks based upon it, not just one project. And the
                                          >tasks are often research to answer questions, or writing, or
                                          >discussions---- small group and whole class--- not just art-creating.
                                          >
                                          >I don't really know how the art teachers of the world are teaching
                                          >art-- is everyone doing as I have, find lessons, teach the e's and p's
                                          >and techniques through these lessons, throw up some
                                          >posters/slides/internet sites to critique? And move onto the next
                                          >technique/art standard/e or p?
                                          >Kathleen
                                          >PS. And Jan, I, too, can find value in every answer on the multiple
                                          >choice test! Maybe it's because we're such creative thinkers!?
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >

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                                        • Lee & Kathleen Day
                                          We should probably start a support group for people who find value in every answer on multiple choice tests! I am almost finished with my first Big Idea
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Jul 2 6:47 AM
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                                            We should probably start a support group for people who find value in every answer on multiple choice tests!
                                             
                                            I am almost finished with my first "Big Idea" unit.  To tell the truth, I knew I wanted to/needed to teach some aspects of Asian art and we own a Sumi Brush Painting video, so I began with the end project and worked forwards ("step back").  I always want to open my students' world to diversity, so my big idea is,  "People do best when their physical, emotional, and spritiual needs are met" to show that (as ML King said) "we're all the same color on the inside". It's a rather long unit and maybe it covers too much ground (physical, emoitonal, AND spritual), but it felt good to get one unit done.  I'm rescanning the book (Rethinking the Curriculum in Art) to be sure I'm covering everything. 
                                             
                                            I have only been teaching art 3 years (other things 2 years before), and I'm not sure I could have digested the "new" (to me) information before I really understood everything left to me in the supply closet! This theory of the big idea is being taught in colleges, now, though, so maybe it won't be so difficult for the new teachers.  In the back of my mind, I'm thinking of more units on Place, Nature, and Perceived Reality.
                                            I hope I'm doing this right!
                                            Kathleen
                                          • TwoDucks@aol.com
                                            ... What a great nugget, Kathleen!!!! And follows the question for those of us in art education: how can our students have these needs, as diverse as each
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Jul 2 6:58 AM
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                                              In a message dated 7/2/07 9:51:50 AM, neato23 writes:


                                              my big idea is,  "People do best when their physical, emotional, and spritiual needs are met"

                                              What a great nugget, Kathleen!!!!  And follows the question for those of us in art education: how can our students have these needs, as diverse as each one of them, met in our classrooms?
                                              Given the special nature of art making, if not in our classrooms, where?

                                              kathy douglas
                                              k-3 massachusetts retired
                                              TAB Partnership
                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TAB-ChoiceArtEd/





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                                            • OLSON, AMANDA
                                              what is the exact name and author of this big idea book?? thank you ________________________________ From: art_education@yahoogroups.com on behalf of
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Jul 2 7:51 AM
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                                                what is the exact name and author of this "big idea book??

                                                thank you

                                                ________________________________

                                                From: art_education@yahoogroups.com on behalf of TwoDucks@...
                                                Sent: Mon 7/2/2007 8:58 AM
                                                To: art_education@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: Re: [art_education] Re: rethinking curriculum in art - what's a "Big Idea?"




                                                In a message dated 7/2/07 9:51:50 AM, neato23 writes:




                                                my big idea is, "People do best when their physical, emotional, and spritiual needs are met"

                                                What a great nugget, Kathleen!!!! And follows the question for those of us in art education: how can our students have these needs, as diverse as each one of them, met in our classrooms?
                                                Given the special nature of art making, if not in our classrooms, where?

                                                kathy douglas
                                                k-3 massachusetts retired
                                                TAB Partnership
                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TAB-ChoiceArtEd/




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                                              • Sherri Treeby
                                                Elements: Line Shape Form Color Value Space Texture Principles: Balance Rythm and Movement Pattern Emphasis Contrast Unity That is the way I learned them,
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Jul 2 3:38 PM
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                                                  Elements:
                                                  Line
                                                  Shape
                                                  Form
                                                  Color
                                                  Value
                                                  Space
                                                  Texture
                                                   
                                                  Principles:
                                                  Balance
                                                  Rythm and Movement
                                                  Pattern
                                                  Emphasis
                                                  Contrast
                                                  Unity
                                                   
                                                  That is the way I learned them, though many books differ slightly, they amount to about the same end.  I have found that this is the basic knowledge, and I constantly refer back to this in all upper level classes.
                                                  Sherri T
                                                  South Dakota

                                                  Jeff Pridie <jeffpridie@...> wrote:
                                                  Sharon,

                                                  Principles and Elements of Design. The framework of
                                                  many art curriculums.

                                                  Jeff (Minnesota)
                                                  --- beyondskyline <beyondskyline@ yahoo.com> wrote:

                                                  > Can someone please spell out what "P's" and "E's"
                                                  > are?
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Sharon
                                                  >
                                                  >

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                                                • Lee & Kathleen Day
                                                  The book I m reading about Big Ideas (or enduring ideas) is Rethinking Curriculum in Art by Marilyn G. Stewart and Sydney R. Walker. The big idea is what
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Jul 3 5:20 AM
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                                                    The book I'm reading about Big Ideas (or enduring ideas) is "Rethinking Curriculum in Art" by Marilyn G. Stewart and Sydney R. Walker.  The big idea is what you want your students to go away with.  Convenentional art goals might be: I want my students to be able to recognize Impressionist paintings or They should be able to mix any color.  The big idea takes those skills and puts them under an umbrella:  I want my students to recognize needs common to all human beings so that they can understand others and themselves better. We reinforce this idea again and again through critques of artwork, research, art projects, all of which include the earlier goals.  They may forget names of paintings, but they will remember the bigger idea. 
                                                     
                                                    This book isn't the only one to deal with Big Ideas, but I thought it looked like the one with actual steps and examples to follow.  I hope this discussion helps make us think a little over the summer about our goals for students.  Writing to this group has forced me to go out and DO it (organize the stuff I already had into a big idea unit), and I'm more excited about teaching next year, which I needed. I am happy to get off the project-after-project merry-go-round and  organize classes into meaningful units.  When they study an Impressionist painting, students will be more motivated to do it by concerns they have now--- fitting in, for instance.  I fear I have rambled on too long, though, and thank you for your input. 
                                                    Kathleen
                                                  • valjones44
                                                    Someone asked the author of the book Rethinking Curriculum in Art, it is by Marilyn G. Stewart and Sydney R. Walker (Dr. Stewart is a professor of art
                                                    Message 25 of 25 , Jul 3 6:50 AM
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                                                      Someone asked the author of the book Rethinking Curriculum in Art,  it is by Marilyn G. Stewart and Sydney R. Walker  (Dr. Stewart is a professor of art education at Kutztown University, PA - my alma mater and Sydney R. Walker is at Ohio State University.  It can be purchased through Davis Publications and is one of their series books of Art Education in Practice.  There are several in the series that are VERY good.  Assessment in Art Education, by Donna Kay Beattie (You may want to read this one if you are embarking on National Boards)  Talking about Student Art by Terry Barrett and Teaching Meaning in Artmaking by Sydney Walker.  I found these to be very helpful for National Board Certification as well.  If you read Teaching Meaning in Artmaking, you can see there is a relationship to Rethinking Curriculum in Art -  both books deal with Big Ideas to make artmaking meaningful to students. 

                                                      here is the link for Davis http://www.davisart.com/Portal/Commerce/CommerceDefault.aspx

                                                      or here is their home page  http://www.davisart.com/Portal/Home/HomeDefault.aspx  

                                                      hope this helps,  

                                                      Val Jones

                                                      Guntersville, AL

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