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  • Vivek Narayanan
    Hi Ish, I agree very much with the sentiment of your question, and I m quite tired of this unasked-for, silly and even poisonous thread on Hindus and
    Message 1 of 3 , Jun 30, 2005
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      Hi Ish,

      I agree very much with the sentiment of your question, and I'm quite
      tired of this unasked-for, silly and even poisonous thread on "Hindus"
      and "Muslims".

      But I personally think it has less to do with the relevance or lack
      thereof of religion. We use "religion" to denote a vast and completely
      contradictory complex of practices, beliefs, traditions, discussions,
      arguments, knowledge systems and invocations: some of these may be
      deployed when trying to corner political control, but other aspects may
      continue, in fact, to resonate with the best and most true and searching
      of our instincts.

      The point is that the very sloppy thinking in these rants by Ashok Row
      Kavi and others trades in the vaguest of inherited categories, and
      collapse all of history and geography together. Do the "Muslims of
      India" want one thing, are they a singular beast? Did the "Muslims" vote
      for partition by universal franchise? Are British Bangladeshis poor
      because they're Muslim? Are they poor for the same reasons that "Indian
      Muslims" are poor? Do "Hindus" exist outside of historico-political
      categories? Do "Brahmins" exist outside of historico-political
      categories? Are semitic and anti-semitic beliefs "totally different"?
      What does the Hindu Kush have to do with anything?

      I think it's time to stop feeling hurt on behalf of the race.

      Let's move on-- quickly--

      The reader-list is not a chatline.

      V.

      ISh wrote:

      >ust one question I have been asking for a long time in the light of
      >Somalia, Middle East, India, Bangladesh and countless others:
      >What has religion solved?
      >
      >I think it is redundant now. And religion is on the diminishing side of
      >its marginal utility curve and has just defeated it’s purpose over the
      >period of time that it has existed. It is there in Sadat Hassan Manto’s
      >stories, Bertrand Russell’s ‘Why I am not a Christian’ and in Ashok’s
      >article below.
      >
      >ISh
      >(Sarai.net/ frEeMuZik.net)
      >
      >
      >
      >ASHOK ROW KAVI wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      >>Gulam, In your lengthy and verbose reply to Jerry Rao you end with
      >>such a whimper when you blandly state: " I have full sympathy for the
      >>deep scars that Hindus in general and Brahmins in particular have
      >>suffered over thousands of years, from the Mongolised version of
      >>Islamic government in India". "When President Musharraf welcomed
      >>Advani to cross over and lay the foundation stone for the renewal of
      >>an old dilapidated temple complex, he has given an open rebut to the
      >>Mehmood Gazni’s version of militarized Islam. That gesture should be
      >>noted and appreciated by those who live by constant reminder of Muslim
      >>atrocities". Just remember that in 1942 when the elections to the
      >>Central Provinces Legislature took place, over 81 per cent of the
      >>Muslim vote in present day Indo-Gangetic India went to the Muslim
      >>League. The Muslims voted for a separate Homeland. This homeland was
      >>virtually seized by force through what Jinnah called 'Direct Action
      >>Day" when a little over 5,000 Hindus were butchered in Kolkata alone.
      >>From Guru Nanak who mourns the hordes of Babar making milestones of
      >>his entry into the Indo-Gangetic plain with mounds made of decapitated
      >>Hindu skulls to the "Hot Egg Treatment" that Suhrawardy's goons
      >>infilicted on Hindu women in Muslim Bengal, history herself speaks on
      >>behalf of the Hindus. Babar's only daughter Gulbadan writes about how
      >>over three lakh Hindu women and children over 15 years were sold by
      >>Babar into slavery in Central Asia and "slaves were so cheap that they
      >>cost less than a sack of grain" in Taskent. You forget that the
      >>Hindukhush were named for the nameless lakhs of Hindus who died as
      >>they were driven like cattle across in the snow laden passes and died
      >>unwept on the way. You seem totally clueless by the reports as recent
      >>as 1971 when Pakistani troops killed a little more than 2.5 million
      >>Hindus in what is now Bangladesh and the genocide still continues.
      >>Your trying to drive a wedge between the Dalits and Upper Castes won't
      >>work in the long run. Though communal politics is politically
      >>incorrect in contemporary India, Hindu consolidation is now evident
      >>wherever Muslim populations go over 20 per cent (Bareilly is a good
      >>example). In the last elections, the BJP actually got 0.24 per cent
      >>more of the vote than the Congress. It is its allies which lost badly
      >>and let it down. We are now in the stage for the next confrontation
      >>because very little has changed from the way you write. In Kerala the
      >>Dalit Ezhavas and the Kshatriya Nairs are coming together to fight
      >>Muslim/Christian atrocities (the Land Reform Act does not seem to hold
      >>for both these communities and is operable only for Hindus there), to
      >>Bengal, where even the CPM Chief minister has started worrying abouty
      >>Muslim infiltration and demographic warfare. Finally the hand of
      >>friendship and brotherhood has to be extended by Muslims too for the
      >>Hindus are now tired and sick of hearing this constant monopolising of
      >>victim space by Muslims. If 150 million Muslims are poor, it is not
      >>the fault of the Hindus if they do not wish to educate themselves in
      >>modern schools. Why even in England, the poorest sections are Muslims.
      >>Is that also the fault of the Hindus? The Hindus are going quietly for
      >>massive reform to reinvent a spiritual heritage that is totally
      >>different from the Semitic revelatory beliefs of West Asia. The
      >>inter-caste fights are the problems of the Hindus. I suggest you try
      >>and look into the fanatic fights between Shias and Sunnis in Pakistan
      >>and try to work around them. The future will tell whether the suicide
      >>bombers or the spiritual renovators will succeed. The answer is in the
      >>West -- whereas Islam is the fastest growing religion -- in the
      >>prisons, for the first time this year in Harvard University, the
      >>graduate ceremony started with a Sanskrit prayer by the heterodox
      >>Ramakrishna Swamis of America. warm regards Ashok Row Kavi Mumbai
      >>
      >>
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