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Re: [Arkitect India] Fw: Pseudosecularism

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  • Dilip Kumar
    Use of the word secular has become a fashion especially by politicians and their tertiary supporters. Religion neutral governance, development or communication
    Message 1 of 13 , Oct 3, 2013
    • 0 Attachment


      Use of the word secular has become a fashion especially by politicians and their tertiary supporters. 

       Religion neutral governance, development or communication approach should be considered as secular in true sense. It also envelops non-partisan policy towards all while  appeasement to none. 
      With this view of mine I also endorse the views expressed by Pankaj Jee.  

      Dilip


      On 2 Oct, 2013, at 5:21 PM, Pankaj Jain <pjain2002@...> wrote:

       

      Dear Shamsul bhai,

      I am not a member of RSS, so I do not know what goes inside it. As an ordinary citizen, what concerns me are the 'public actions', different from words', of people and institutions. In the public actions of RSS, there is no element of fascism, be it running of tribal schools or disaster relief camps, or running morning Shakhas. Demanding re-construction of thousands of yr. old Ram temple or opposing special treatment to minorities are normal political demands, and are no more fascist than penalizing a Civil service officer for the demolition of the outer wall of an unauthorized mosque by SP Govt., or the demand of reconstruction of Babri mosque which has been made by most pseudoscularists, at some or other time.  RSS's partisan/fascist record of supporting its cadre is certainly no worse than of India's pseudo-secularist brigade in favoring its supporters/ cadres.

      Anyway, RSS is not a political party, and there is no evidence that BJP, as a ruling party, has been more partisan-fascist in favour of its supporter than most other political parties. In fact, the record of pseudo -secularists, including the Left, RJD, SP, JD, Muslim Leagues, in favouring their own cadre/ supporters is far more partisan/ fascist than of BJP.

      I am afraid, facts do not support your views.

      Anyway, where is similarity between Mein Kempf and factual sectarian record of Hindu and Muslim dominated societies that I had received from some source and forwarded?  Are you contesting that evidence?

      Pankaj


      From: Shamsul Islam <notoinjustice@...>
      To: arkitectindia@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2013 5:31 PM
      Subject: Re: [Arkitect India] Fw: Pseudosecularism

       
      pankaj ji,
      plz read Hitler's Mein Kempf. If you you are unable to access it, just
      read your Guriji's two works, WE OR OUR NATIONENHOOD DEFINED & BUNCH

      OF THOUGHTS. The author, Golwalkar as a faithful fan of fascism/Nazism
      writes the same criminal propaganda against all minorities. He wrote
      shameful things against Women of Kerala. His Hindutva gang got
      Gandhiji killed. Fascism runs through the veins of RSS cadres like
      Talibaans.

      On 10/1/13, Pankaj Jain <pjain2002@...> wrote:
      > Specific reference of Nazi source from which it is copied should be given
      > to substantiate your charge.
      >
      >
      > Pankaj
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: Snehi <snehi.india@...>
      > To: arkitectindia@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 1:47 PM
      > Subject: Re: [Arkitect India] Fw: Pseudosecularism
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > This presentation is copied from NAZI propaganda materials against Jews. The
      > presenter must be having crude Nazi criminal bent of mind and product of RSS
      > and associates. They keep copying NAZI propaganda literature shamelessly.
      >
      >
      > Pradeep
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > On 24 September 2013 10:48, Pankaj Jain <pjain2002@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      >>
      >>[Attachment(s) from Pankaj Jain included below]
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>Some of you may actually LIKE this, while others may not. It is a forwarded
      >> message.
      >>
      >>

      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --
      >
      >
      > Snehi - An Organization for Psychosocial Support and Mental Health Care
      >
      >
      > B-347, Vasant Kunj Enclave, B-Block, New Delhi-110070  India
      > P: +91-11-65418181, 65978181 M: +91-9582208181
      > Email: info@..., snehi.india@..., snehi.india@...
      > Website: www.snehi.org
      > ----------------------------------------------------------
      > Mental Health: The fundamental right of every human being.
      > Child Mental Health is an essential Child Right.
      > Prevention is root of cure.
      > Mental health is not only a health issue.
      > It is also a social and development issue.
      >





      Dilip Kumar

      Ex-Director / VC, CIFE (ICAR), Mumbai-India

      International Civil Service (FAO of the UN)- Rtd.

      Fisheries and Aquaculture Development Advisor  Rural Livelihood Development Promoter

      C-9/9698, Vasant Kunj, New Delhi-110070

      Tel - +91-11-26899185 / Mob- +91-9560455702

      E mail – dk.dilipkumar@...





    • Sukla Sen
      Inquiry commissions after commissions blamed the RSS for fomenting communal violence and bloodshed. Demanding re-construction of thousands of yr. old Ram
      Message 2 of 13 , Oct 3, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Inquiry commissions after commissions blamed the RSS for fomenting communal violence and bloodshed.

        "Demanding re-construction of thousands of yr. old Ram temple" - that's a typical example of the mischievous propaganda by the RSS. Forgotten is the fact that there is no concrete proof of the existence of any Ram temple at the Babri Masjid site. Scores of historians have negated such claims (though some archaeologists gave contrary opinions). Ram Charit Manas of Tulsidas makes no mention of any such temple. But far more importantly, the "demand" - so very benign sounding - actually culminated in the forcible destruction of the mosque in flagrant violation of the solemn commitment made to the Supreme Court of India and in the process triggered extensive bloodshed all across India before and after the destruction. 

        On communal violence, here is an excerpt from a research paper:
        Quote
        Communal violence since 1990s needs to be seen in the light of the changing political equations
        in the country. The decline of the Congress and the emergence of the BJP as a strong political
        force resulted in shifting patterns of communal riots. Communal violence in the last two decades
        is a result of the manipulation of the religious sentiments of people by the Hindu right-wing
        organizations for political gains. The politicization of the Mandir-Masjid issue and the
        subsequent demolition of the Mosque gave the BJP the opportunity to consolidate its vote bank.
        But in the process the controversy created a communal divide, and frequency of riots also
        increased during this time. Since partition, never before has one particular incident resulted in the
        emergence of violence in almost all the states. From the 1960s till 1980 local factors played a
        very important role in the emergence of riots, but since the late 1980s this trend seems to be
        changing. Communal violence has always occurred when the BJP has wanted to expand its base.
        In the recent years the South Indian states, particularly Kerala and Tamilnadu, have also
        witnessed communal violence and are slowly growing into communally sensitive areas. This is
        primarily because of the recent entrance of BJP in the political arena of these states.
        Apart from Godhra, the other incidences of communal violence in the 90s have been minor, yet
        they cannot be dismissed. These eruptions of communal violence have not been spontaneous, but
        are organized, and often have the support of the local administrations. The state support to riots
        is a long established feature in India, yet the state has never been such an active participant in the
        violence before the Gujarat riots.
        Communal violence has entered a new phase with the Christians and members of other minority
        religions being made the victims of planned attacks. Communal riots in this decade have been
        both urban and rural features, but the extent of damage is always greater in the thriving centers of
        trade and commerce. Tribal population in the rural areas is being forced to get involved in the
        attacks on Christians and Muslims by bringing them within the Hindutva framework. Apart from
        economic reasons, the call for Hindu unity which is primarily a means to achieve political
        advantage is the main source for communal violence in this decade.
        Unquote

        Here is another excerpt from another article:
        Quote
        In Bhivandi Jalgaon riots of 1970 Justice D.P. Madon states that ‘section of Hindu elements particularly RSS and some PSP men were bent upon crating mischief, and they could succeed because of the passive police’. Justice Joseph Vithayathil on Tellicherry riots of 1971 points out that the anti Muslim propaganda was begun by RSS-Jan Sangh which changed the situation leading to communal polarization. In 1979 Jamshedpur riots, the report of commission of inquiry says that Samyukta Bajarangbalis Akhada Samiti, related to RSS was the one which deliberately created the dispute on the issue of route of procession and the members of Samiti raised anti Muslim slogans leading to violence. Justice Venugopal on Kanykumari 1982 riots makes the observation about the role of RSS in spreading rumors etc., the rumors acted as instigation to violence. Justice Srikrishna Commission also makes it clear that the BJP ally Shiv Sena’s role in Mumbai violence was very stark.
        Unquote

        And the basic philosophy of the RSS was laid down in clear and unambiguous terms by MS Golwalkar in his books 'We or Our Nationhood Defined' and 'Bunch of Thoughts', which have been quoted in another earlier posts on this thread.
        The RSS goes by these principles (!) and has never disavowed these.

        Sukla


        On 2 October 2013 17:21, Pankaj Jain <pjain2002@...> wrote:
         

        Dear Shamsul bhai,

        I am not a member of RSS, so I do not know what goes inside it. As an ordinary citizen, what concerns me are the 'public actions', different from words', of people and institutions. In the public actions of RSS, there is no element of fascism, be it running of tribal schools or disaster relief camps, or running morning Shakhas. Demanding re-construction of thousands of yr. old Ram temple or opposing special treatment to minorities are normal political demands, and are no more fascist than penalizing a Civil service officer for the demolition of the outer wall of an unauthorized mosque by SP Govt., or the demand of reconstruction of Babri mosque which has been made by most pseudoscularists, at some or other time.  RSS's partisan/fascist record of supporting its cadre is certainly no worse than of India's pseudo-secularist brigade in favoring its supporters/ cadres.

        Anyway, RSS is not a political party, and there is no evidence that BJP, as a ruling party, has been more partisan-fascist in favour of its supporter than most other political parties. In fact, the record of pseudo -secularists, including the Left, RJD, SP, JD, Muslim Leagues, in favouring their own cadre/ supporters is far more partisan/ fascist than of BJP.

        I am afraid, facts do not support your views.

        Anyway, where is similarity between Mein Kempf and factual sectarian record of Hindu and Muslim dominated societies that I had received from some source and forwarded?  Are you contesting that evidence?

        Pankaj


        From: Shamsul Islam <notoinjustice@...>
        To: arkitectindia@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2013 5:31 PM

        Subject: Re: [Arkitect India] Fw: Pseudosecularism

         
        pankaj ji,
        plz read Hitler's Mein Kempf. If you you are unable to access it, just
        read your Guriji's two works, WE OR OUR NATIONENHOOD DEFINED & BUNCH

        OF THOUGHTS. The author, Golwalkar as a faithful fan of fascism/Nazism
        writes the same criminal propaganda against all minorities. He wrote
        shameful things against Women of Kerala. His Hindutva gang got
        Gandhiji killed. Fascism runs through the veins of RSS cadres like
        Talibaans.

        On 10/1/13, Pankaj Jain <pjain2002@...> wrote:
        > Specific reference of Nazi source from which it is copied should be given

        > to substantiate your charge.
        >
        >
        > Pankaj
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: Snehi <snehi.india@...>
        > To: arkitectindia@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 1:47 PM
        > Subject: Re: [Arkitect India] Fw: Pseudosecularism
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > This presentation is copied from NAZI propaganda materials against Jews. The
        > presenter must be having crude Nazi criminal bent of mind and product of RSS
        > and associates. They keep copying NAZI propaganda literature shamelessly.
        >
        >
        > Pradeep
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > On 24 September 2013 10:48, Pankaj Jain <pjain2002@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        >>
        >>[Attachment(s) from Pankaj Jain included below]
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>Some of you may actually LIKE this, while others may not. It is a forwarded
        >> message.
        >>
        >>

        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --
        >
        >
        > Snehi - An Organization for Psychosocial Support and Mental Health Care
        >
        >
        > B-347, Vasant Kunj Enclave, B-Block, New Delhi-110070  India
        > P: +91-11-65418181, 65978181 M: +91-9582208181
        > Email: info@..., snehi.india@..., snehi.india@...
        > Website: www.snehi.org
        > ----------------------------------------------------------
        > Mental Health: The fundamental right of every human being.
        > Child Mental Health is an essential Child Right.
        > Prevention is root of cure.
        > Mental health is not only a health issue.
        > It is also a social and development issue.
        >





        --
        Peace Is Doable
      • Pankaj Jain
        Dear Mr. Sen, The source of our difference lies precisely in the sources/ authorities that we consider credible. There exists anacedotal evidence of
        Message 3 of 13 , Oct 4, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          Dear Mr. Sen,

          The source of our difference lies precisely in the sources/ authorities that we consider credible. There exists anacedotal evidence of correlation between incidence and cure of diseases and visits to shrines/ places, but such evidence and such ewvidence based conclusion are clearly faulty. It seems that you are happy to accept such partial evidence and partisan reasoning as a basis of your preferred political beliefs.  You are welcome to your beliefs, but please recognize that these are partisan nd political, not analytical-logical.

          On emotive and highly political issues, we should be cautious in considering any source credible other than court proceeding, or strictly scientific evidence based analysis, which have undergone contested argumentation by the opposing side and repeated review by higher juidiciary.. For this reason, most Commissions of Inquiries do not carry the same weight as a judicial  process, eve of lower court.

            Pankaj 



          From: Sukla Sen <sukla.sen@...>
          To: arkitectindia@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, October 3, 2013 4:58 PM
          Subject: Re: [Arkitect India] Fw: Pseudosecularism

           
          Inquiry commissions after commissions blamed the RSS for fomenting communal violence and bloodshed.

          "Demanding re-construction of thousands of yr. old Ram temple" - that's a typical example of the mischievous propaganda by the RSS. Forgotten is the fact that there is no concrete proof of the existence of any Ram temple at the Babri Masjid site. Scores of historians have negated such claims (though some archaeologists gave contrary opinions). Ram Charit Manas of Tulsidas makes no mention of any such temple. But far more importantly, the "demand" - so very benign sounding - actually culminated in the forcible destruction of the mosque in flagrant violation of the solemn commitment made to the Supreme Court of India and in the process triggered extensive bloodshed all across India before and after the destruction. 

          On communal violence, here is an excerpt from a research paper:
          Quote
          Communal violence since 1990s needs to be seen in the light of the changing political equations
          in the country. The decline of the Congress and the emergence of the BJP as a strong political
          force resulted in shifting patterns of communal riots. Communal violence in the last two decades
          is a result of the manipulation of the religious sentiments of people by the Hindu right-wing
          organizations for political gains. The politicization of the Mandir-Masjid issue and the
          subsequent demolition of the Mosque gave the BJP the opportunity to consolidate its vote bank.
          But in the process the controversy created a communal divide, and frequency of riots also
          increased during this time. Since partition, never before has one particular incident resulted in the
          emergence of violence in almost all the states. From the 1960s till 1980 local factors played a
          very important role in the emergence of riots, but since the late 1980s this trend seems to be
          changing. Communal violence has always occurred when the BJP has wanted to expand its base.
          In the recent years the South Indian states, particularly Kerala and Tamilnadu, have also
          witnessed communal violence and are slowly growing into communally sensitive areas. This is
          primarily because of the recent entrance of BJP in the political arena of these states.
          Apart from Godhra, the other incidences of communal violence in the 90s have been minor, yet
          they cannot be dismissed. These eruptions of communal violence have not been spontaneous, but
          are organized, and often have the support of the local administrations. The state support to riots
          is a long established feature in India, yet the state has never been such an active participant in the
          violence before the Gujarat riots.
          Communal violence has entered a new phase with the Christians and members of other minority
          religions being made the victims of planned attacks. Communal riots in this decade have been
          both urban and rural features, but the extent of damage is always greater in the thriving centers of
          trade and commerce. Tribal population in the rural areas is being forced to get involved in the
          attacks on Christians and Muslims by bringing them within the Hindutva framework. Apart from
          economic reasons, the call for Hindu unity which is primarily a means to achieve political
          advantage is the main source for communal violence in this decade.
          Unquote

          Here is another excerpt from another article:
          Quote
          In Bhivandi Jalgaon riots of 1970 Justice D.P. Madon states that ‘section of Hindu elements particularly RSS and some PSP men were bent upon crating mischief, and they could succeed because of the passive police’. Justice Joseph Vithayathil on Tellicherry riots of 1971 points out that the anti Muslim propaganda was begun by RSS-Jan Sangh which changed the situation leading to communal polarization. In 1979 Jamshedpur riots, the report of commission of inquiry says that Samyukta Bajarangbalis Akhada Samiti, related to RSS was the one which deliberately created the dispute on the issue of route of procession and the members of Samiti raised anti Muslim slogans leading to violence. Justice Venugopal on Kanykumari 1982 riots makes the observation about the role of RSS in spreading rumors etc., the rumors acted as instigation to violence. Justice Srikrishna Commission also makes it clear that the BJP ally Shiv Sena’s role in Mumbai violence was very stark.
          Unquote

          And the basic philosophy of the RSS was laid down in clear and unambiguous terms by MS Golwalkar in his books 'We or Our Nationhood Defined' and 'Bunch of Thoughts', which have been quoted in another earlier posts on this thread.
          The RSS goes by these principles (!) and has never disavowed these.

          Sukla


          On 2 October 2013 17:21, Pankaj Jain <pjain2002@...> wrote:
           
          Dear Shamsul bhai,

          I am not a member of RSS, so I do not know what goes inside it. As an ordinary citizen, what concerns me are the 'public actions', different from words', of people and institutions. In the public actions of RSS, there is no element of fascism, be it running of tribal schools or disaster relief camps, or running morning Shakhas. Demanding re-construction of thousands of yr. old Ram temple or opposing special treatment to minorities are normal political demands, and are no more fascist than penalizing a Civil service officer for the demolition of the outer wall of an unauthorized mosque by SP Govt., or the demand of reconstruction of Babri mosque which has been made by most pseudoscularists, at some or other time.  RSS's partisan/fascist record of supporting its cadre is certainly no worse than of India's pseudo-secularist brigade in favoring its supporters/ cadres.

          Anyway, RSS is not a political party, and there is no evidence that BJP, as a ruling party, has been more partisan-fascist in favour of its supporter than most other political parties. In fact, the record of pseudo -secularists, including the Left, RJD, SP, JD, Muslim Leagues, in favouring their own cadre/ supporters is far more partisan/ fascist than of BJP.

          I am afraid, facts do not support your views.

          Anyway, where is similarity between Mein Kempf and factual sectarian record of Hindu and Muslim dominated societies that I had received from some source and forwarded?  Are you contesting that evidence?

          Pankaj


          From: Shamsul Islam <notoinjustice@...>
          To: arkitectindia@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2013 5:31 PM

          Subject: Re: [Arkitect India] Fw: Pseudosecularism

           
          pankaj ji,
          plz read Hitler's Mein Kempf. If you you are unable to access it, just
          read your Guriji's two works, WE OR OUR NATIONENHOOD DEFINED & BUNCH

          OF THOUGHTS. The author, Golwalkar as a faithful fan of fascism/Nazism
          writes the same criminal propaganda against all minorities. He wrote
          shameful things against Women of Kerala. His Hindutva gang got
          Gandhiji killed. Fascism runs through the veins of RSS cadres like
          Talibaans.

          On 10/1/13, Pankaj Jain <pjain2002@...> wrote:
          > Specific reference of Nazi source from which it is copied should be given

          > to substantiate your charge.
          >
          >
          > Pankaj
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: Snehi <snehi.india@...>
          > To: arkitectindia@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 1:47 PM
          > Subject: Re: [Arkitect India] Fw: Pseudosecularism
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > This presentation is copied from NAZI propaganda materials against Jews. The
          > presenter must be having crude Nazi criminal bent of mind and product of RSS
          > and associates. They keep copying NAZI propaganda literature shamelessly.
          >
          >
          > Pradeep
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > On 24 September 2013 10:48, Pankaj Jain <pjain2002@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          >>
          >>[Attachment(s) from Pankaj Jain included below]
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>Some of you may actually LIKE this, while others may not. It is a forwarded
          >> message.
          >>
          >>

          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --
          >
          >
          > Snehi - An Organization for Psychosocial Support and Mental Health Care
          >
          >
          > B-347, Vasant Kunj Enclave, B-Block, New Delhi-110070  India
          > P: +91-11-65418181, 65978181 M: +91-9582208181
          > Email: info@..., snehi.india@..., snehi.india@...
          > Website: www.snehi.org
          > ----------------------------------------------------------
          > Mental Health: The fundamental right of every human being.
          > Child Mental Health is an essential Child Right.
          > Prevention is root of cure.
          > Mental health is not only a health issue.
          > It is also a social and development issue.
          >





          --
          Peace Is Doable


        • makdmc@...
          Ram Charit Manas of Tulsidas makes no mention of any such temple..... Sen Dear Mr Pankaj Is the above statement right? If yes, how much justify is the Ram
          Message 4 of 13 , Oct 4, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Ram Charit Manas of Tulsidas makes no mention of any such temple..... Sen

            Dear Mr Pankaj

            Is the above statement right?
            If yes, how much justify is the Ram temple demand?

            Regards
            Mujtuba
            [Send from BlackBerry]


            From: Pankaj Jain <pjain2002@...>
            Sender: arkitectindia@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 03:02:07 -0700 (PDT)
            To: <arkitectindia@yahoogroups.com>
            ReplyTo: arkitectindia@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [Arkitect India] Fw: Pseudosecularism

             

            Dear Mr. Sen,

            The source of our difference lies precisely in the sources/ authorities that we consider credible. There exists anacedotal evidence of correlation between incidence and cure of diseases and visits to shrines/ places, but such evidence and such ewvidence based conclusion are clearly faulty. It seems that you are happy to accept such partial evidence and partisan reasoning as a basis of your preferred political beliefs.  You are welcome to your beliefs, but please recognize that these are partisan nd political, not analytical-logical.

            On emotive and highly political issues, we should be cautious in considering any source credible other than court proceeding, or strictly scientific evidence based analysis, which have undergone contested argumentation by the opposing side and repeated review by higher juidiciary.. For this reason, most Commissions of Inquiries do not carry the same weight as a judicial  process, eve of lower court.

              Pankaj 



            From: Sukla Sen <sukla.sen@...>
            To: arkitectindia@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, October 3, 2013 4:58 PM
            Subject: Re: [Arkitect India] Fw: Pseudosecularism

             
            Inquiry commissions after commissions blamed the RSS for fomenting communal violence and bloodshed.

            "Demanding re-construction of thousands of yr. old Ram temple" - that's a typical example of the mischievous propaganda by the RSS. Forgotten is the fact that there is no concrete proof of the existence of any Ram temple at the Babri Masjid site. Scores of historians have negated such claims (though some archaeologists gave contrary opinions). Ram Charit Manas of Tulsidas makes no mention of any such temple. But far more importantly, the "demand" - so very benign sounding - actually culminated in the forcible destruction of the mosque in flagrant violation of the solemn commitment made to the Supreme Court of India and in the process triggered extensive bloodshed all across India before and after the destruction. 

            On communal violence, here is an excerpt from a research paper:
            Quote
            Communal violence since 1990s needs to be seen in the light of the changing political equations
            in the country. The decline of the Congress and the emergence of the BJP as a strong political
            force resulted in shifting patterns of communal riots. Communal violence in the last two decades
            is a result of the manipulation of the religious sentiments of people by the Hindu right-wing
            organizations for political gains. The politicization of the Mandir-Masjid issue and the
            subsequent demolition of the Mosque gave the BJP the opportunity to consolidate its vote bank.
            But in the process the controversy created a communal divide, and frequency of riots also
            increased during this time. Since partition, never before has one particular incident resulted in the
            emergence of violence in almost all the states. From the 1960s till 1980 local factors played a
            very important role in the emergence of riots, but since the late 1980s this trend seems to be
            changing. Communal violence has always occurred when the BJP has wanted to expand its base.
            In the recent years the South Indian states, particularly Kerala and Tamilnadu, have also
            witnessed communal violence and are slowly growing into communally sensitive areas. This is
            primarily because of the recent entrance of BJP in the political arena of these states.
            Apart from Godhra, the other incidences of communal violence in the 90s have been minor, yet
            they cannot be dismissed. These eruptions of communal violence have not been spontaneous, but
            are organized, and often have the support of the local administrations. The state support to riots
            is a long established feature in India, yet the state has never been such an active participant in the
            violence before the Gujarat riots.
            Communal violence has entered a new phase with the Christians and members of other minority
            religions being made the victims of planned attacks. Communal riots in this decade have been
            both urban and rural features, but the extent of damage is always greater in the thriving centers of
            trade and commerce. Tribal population in the rural areas is being forced to get involved in the
            attacks on Christians and Muslims by bringing them within the Hindutva framework. Apart from
            economic reasons, the call for Hindu unity which is primarily a means to achieve political
            advantage is the main source for communal violence in this decade.
            Unquote

            Here is another excerpt from another article:
            Quote
            In Bhivandi Jalgaon riots of 1970 Justice D.P. Madon states that ‘section of Hindu elements particularly RSS and some PSP men were bent upon crating mischief, and they could succeed because of the passive police’. Justice Joseph Vithayathil on Tellicherry riots of 1971 points out that the anti Muslim propaganda was begun by RSS-Jan Sangh which changed the situation leading to communal polarization. In 1979 Jamshedpur riots, the report of commission of inquiry says that Samyukta Bajarangbalis Akhada Samiti, related to RSS was the one which deliberately created the dispute on the issue of route of procession and the members of Samiti raised anti Muslim slogans leading to violence. Justice Venugopal on Kanykumari 1982 riots makes the observation about the role of RSS in spreading rumors etc., the rumors acted as instigation to violence. Justice Srikrishna Commission also makes it clear that the BJP ally Shiv Sena’s role in Mumbai violence was very stark.
            Unquote

            And the basic philosophy of the RSS was laid down in clear and unambiguous terms by MS Golwalkar in his books 'We or Our Nationhood Defined' and 'Bunch of Thoughts', which have been quoted in another earlier posts on this thread.
            The RSS goes by these principles (!) and has never disavowed these.

            Sukla


            On 2 October 2013 17:21, Pankaj Jain <pjain2002@...> wrote:
             
            Dear Shamsul bhai,

            I am not a member of RSS, so I do not know what goes inside it. As an ordinary citizen, what concerns me are the 'public actions', different from words', of people and institutions. In the public actions of RSS, there is no element of fascism, be it running of tribal schools or disaster relief camps, or running morning Shakhas. Demanding re-construction of thousands of yr. old Ram temple or opposing special treatment to minorities are normal political demands, and are no more fascist than penalizing a Civil service officer for the demolition of the outer wall of an unauthorized mosque by SP Govt., or the demand of reconstruction of Babri mosque which has been made by most pseudoscularists, at some or other time.  RSS's partisan/fascist record of supporting its cadre is certainly no worse than of India's pseudo-secularist brigade in favoring its supporters/ cadres.

            Anyway, RSS is not a political party, and there is no evidence that BJP, as a ruling party, has been more partisan-fascist in favour of its supporter than most other political parties. In fact, the record of pseudo -secularists, including the Left, RJD, SP, JD, Muslim Leagues, in favouring their own cadre/ supporters is far more partisan/ fascist than of BJP.

            I am afraid, facts do not support your views.

            Anyway, where is similarity between Mein Kempf and factual sectarian record of Hindu and Muslim dominated societies that I had received from some source and forwarded?  Are you contesting that evidence?

            Pankaj


            From: Shamsul Islam <notoinjustice@...>
            To: arkitectindia@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2013 5:31 PM

            Subject: Re: [Arkitect India] Fw: Pseudosecularism

             
            pankaj ji,
            plz read Hitler's Mein Kempf. If you you are unable to access it, just
            read your Guriji's two works, WE OR OUR NATIONENHOOD DEFINED & BUNCH

            OF THOUGHTS. The author, Golwalkar as a faithful fan of fascism/Nazism
            writes the same criminal propaganda against all minorities. He wrote
            shameful things against Women of Kerala. His Hindutva gang got
            Gandhiji killed. Fascism runs through the veins of RSS cadres like
            Talibaans.

            On 10/1/13, Pankaj Jain <pjain2002@...> wrote:
            > Specific reference of Nazi source from which it is copied should be given

            > to substantiate your charge.
            >
            >
            > Pankaj
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: Snehi <snehi.india@...>
            > To: arkitectindia@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 1:47 PM
            > Subject: Re: [Arkitect India] Fw: Pseudosecularism
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > This presentation is copied from NAZI propaganda materials against Jews. The
            > presenter must be having crude Nazi criminal bent of mind and product of RSS
            > and associates. They keep copying NAZI propaganda literature shamelessly.
            >
            >
            > Pradeep
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > On 24 September 2013 10:48, Pankaj Jain <pjain2002@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            >>
            >>[Attachment(s) from Pankaj Jain included below]
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>Some of you may actually LIKE this, while others may not. It is a forwarded
            >> message.
            >>
            >>

            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --
            >
            >
            > Snehi - An Organization for Psychosocial Support and Mental Health Care
            >
            >
            > B-347, Vasant Kunj Enclave, B-Block, New Delhi-110070  India
            > P: +91-11-65418181, 65978181 M: +91-9582208181
            > Email: info@..., snehi.india@..., snehi.india@...
            > Website: www.snehi.org
            > ----------------------------------------------------------
            > Mental Health: The fundamental right of every human being.
            > Child Mental Health is an essential Child Right.
            > Prevention is root of cure.
            > Mental health is not only a health issue.
            > It is also a social and development issue.
            >





            --
            Peace Is Doable


          • koramati subbarao
             DearIslam, What you said is correct and truth. On Wednesday, 2 October 2013 4:18 PM, Shamsul Islam wrote:   pankaj ji, plz read
            Message 5 of 13 , Oct 13, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
               DearIslam, What you said is correct and truth.


              On Wednesday, 2 October 2013 4:18 PM, Shamsul Islam <notoinjustice@...> wrote:
               
              pankaj ji,
              plz read Hitler's Mein Kempf. If you you are unable to access it, just
              read your Guriji's two works, WE OR OUR NATIONENHOOD DEFINED & BUNCH

              OF THOUGHTS. The author, Golwalkar as a faithful fan of fascism/Nazism
              writes the same criminal propaganda against all minorities. He wrote
              shameful things against Women of Kerala. His Hindutva gang got
              Gandhiji killed. Fascism runs through the veins of RSS cadres like
              Talibaans.

              On 10/1/13, Pankaj Jain <pjain2002@...> wrote:
              > Specific reference of Naxzi source from which it is copied should be given
              > to substantiate your charge.
              >
              >
              > Pankaj
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: Snehi <snehi.india@...>
              > To: arkitectindia@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 1:47 PM
              > Subject: Re: [Arkitect India] Fw: Pseudosecularism
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > This presentation is copied from NAZI propaganda materials against Jews. The
              > presenter must be having crude Nazi criminal bent of mind and product of RSS
              > and associates. They keep copying NAZI propaganda literature shamelessly.
              >
              >
              > Pradeep
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > On 24 September 2013 10:48, Pankaj Jain <pjain2002@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              >>
              >>[Attachment(s) from Pankaj Jain included below]
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>Some of you may actually LIKE this, while others may not. It is a forwarded
              >> message.
              >>
              >>

              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --
              >
              >
              > Snehi - An Organization for Psychosocial Support and Mental Health Care
              >
              >
              > B-347, Vasant Kunj Enclave, B-Block, New Delhi-110070  India
              > P: +91-11-65418181, 65978181 M: +91-9582208181
              > Email: info@..., snehi.india@..., snehi.india@...
              > Website: www.snehi.org
              > ----------------------------------------------------------
              > Mental Health: The fundamental right of every human being.
              > Child Mental Health is an essential Child Right.
              > Prevention is root of cure.
              > Mental health is not only a health issue.
              > It is also a social and development issue.
              >


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