Re: Fwd: [INDIAN FIRST] Re: [Arkitect India] What's left unsaid
- Mr. Anil Sharma,Shamsul Islam
Your defence of murder of Gandhiji in the following words is terrible. "mulk-praston se zabt na hua aur unhon ne mulk ki khidmat mein Gandhi ko Pakistan-prasti ki saza di".
The Hindutva criminals who killed Gandhiji were not 'mulk-parast' (nationalists) but they were 'Hindu Nationalists' who wanted to establish a theocratic state in India. Only criminals and persons will unsound mind will label killers of Gandhiji as nationalist!
On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 1:51 PM, ANIL SHARMA <anilsharma83@...> wrote:Janab Shamsul Islam Sahib,Agar aap ko naagvaar na guzre to mein Urdu zaban me hi aap se mukhatib rahoonga.Mujhe Urdu zaban se ishq hai.Uske do kaaran hain.Ek to yeh ki Urdu zaban Sarzameen-e-Hind mein ijaad hui.Doosre mere valid marhoom,Janab Rishi Patialvi Sahib, Urdu ke mashhoor shayar the.Vaise bhi Urdu ki tarakki mein jitni mehnat Muslamaanon ne ki hai shayad us se bhi zayada Hinduon ne ki hogi kyonki Urdu zaban sirf Muslamaanon ki hi zaban nahin hai jaisa ki siyaasatdaanon ne zor diya hai.Baharhaal jahan zaroorat mehsoos hogi vahan English ya Hindi zabanon ka istemaal karne se bhi gurez nahin karoonga.Khair yeh to hua zabanon ka masla.Ab aap ke 'nek'khayalaat par tabsara karte hain.Shamshul Ji ! It is said that little knowledge is dangerous thing and wrong knowledge is totally disastrous,but deliberately spreading false facts and trying to distort the historical facts is simply criminal.Aap ke twaarikhi ilm ko durust karne ke liye arz karna chahoonga ki Mahatama Gandhi ki najaayaz Muslim-prasti ko to mulk-praston ne jaise taise zabt kar liya tha magar jab Gandhi ne Sardar Patel ke Jinnah ki Pakistan ko 55 crore dene ki najayaz baat ko thukrane par aamaran anshan ki dhamkee di to mulk-praston se zabt na hua aur unhon ne mulk ki khidmat mein Gandhi ko Pakistan-prasti ki saza di.Isd mein Hindu-Muslim ka sawaal nahin tha .Sawaal tha mulk ka.Aap ne Maihar me Ma Sharda ke mandir ki aarti me Baba Allauddin Sahib ke Sarod-vadan ki baat ki hai to aap ke ilm mein izafa karne ke liye bata doon ki Kashi Vishvanath mandir,jahan Khabees ki aulaad Aurangzeb ne masjid izaad kar di thi,vahan mashhoor Shehnai-vadak,Janab Bismillah Khan Sahib shehnai bajate the.Janab!Mein ne khas logon ka to zikar hi nahin kya tha.Mein to aam logon ki baat kar raha tha.Aap ne RSS aur doosri Hindu jamaton ki Muslim mukhalfat ki baat ki hai.Egypt,Syria,Pakistan,Iran.Iraq aur bahut saare doosre Islami mulkon mein na to RSS hai aur na hi doosri Hindu jamaaten.Aur in mulkon mein Modi Ji bhi nahin hain.To wahan Musalamaanon ka qatl-e-aam kaun kar raha hai?Aap ki aur aap jaise hi doosre hazraat ki ek aur galatfehmi door kar doon.RSS ya Doosri Hindu jamaaten Hindustani Musalmaanon ke katai khilaaf nahin hain kyonki twareekh ke mutaabik kareeban kareeban saare Hindustani Musalmaan un badnaseeb Hinduon ki aulaaden hain,jin ko kucch sadiyon pehle talwar ke zor par ya doosre tareekon se jabran Musalmaan banaya gaya tha.From: Shamsul Islam <notoinjustice@...>Subject: Fwd: [INDIAN FIRST] Re: [Arkitect India] What's left unsaid
To: a d <imemyself10020002000@...>; Sukla Sen <sukla.sen@...>; Janshakti <Janshakti@yahoogroups.com>; mahajanapada <Mahajanapada@yahoogroups.com>; cc: ANIL SHARMA <anilsharma83@...>; "email@example.com" <firstname.lastname@example.org>; bcc: bahujan <Bahujan@yahoogroups.com>; Teesta Setalvad <teestateesta@...>; anandswaroop verma <vermada@...>; Amalendu Upadhyaya <amalendu.upadhyay@...>
Sent: Sunday, 18 August 2013 12:13 PM---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Shamsul Islam <notoinjustice@...> Date: Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [INDIAN FIRST] Re: [Arkitect India] What's left unsaid To: a d <imemyself10020002000@...>, Sukla Sen <sukla.sen@...>, Janshakti <Janshakti@yahoogroups.com>, mahajanapada <Mahajanapada@yahoogroups.com> Cc: ANIL SHARMA <anilsharma83@...>, "email@example.com" <firstname.lastname@example.org>For those friends who do not know the background of my posting, I am pasting below the text to which I have responded above.No problem, anyone of you (m/s sharma/asim etc. etc.) can respond as you jointly run a private limited company of 'lie manufactureres'; a company working over-time to undo a democratic-secular India! We are not talking of Hindus (Gandhi was a devoted Hindu, do you know that?) but Hindutva criminals who in the name of religion did 'vadh' of Gandhi. Thanks for bringing to our knowledge that in de-humannization and de-basement you are competing with with Khiljis, Aurangzebs and other killers with Muslim names. I have been constantly saying that your inspiration is drawn from the theocratic rulers of Pakistan and West Asia. So they are your source of inspiration! We are discussing Hindutva and not Hindus. Let me give one example. Why was it that 2002 genocide of Muslims undertaken by Hindutva cadres did not spill over to Madhya Pradesh, Maharashtra and Rajasthan? Why was it that no carnage of Muslims took place in these states which are adjacent to Gujarat. Were there no Hindus to react to Godhra burning of coaches and innocent Hindus in these states? Godhra few miles away from MP. The fact is that in these areas there was no VHP/RSS/BD led by Modi.Shamsul Islam
"Should I reply,or Mr.sharma will do. Just one example of killing of Gandhi is not representative of Hindu society.See the muslim history.Son-in-Law killing Father-in-Law (the Khiljis),Brother imprisoning other brothers (Aurangjeb),treatment to Riziya,the murder of Mujibur,killing spree in Middle East /Pakistan etc. Let me wait for Mr. Sharma'sreply.I will revert with a detailed note.half-baked truths will not go un-challenged.s.asim"On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 7:56 PM, a d <imemyself10020002000@...> wrote:Should I reply,or Mr.sharma will do. Just one example of killing of Gandhi is not representative of Hindu society.See the muslim history.Son-in-Law killing Father-in-Law (the Khiljis),Brother imprisoning other brothers (Aurangjeb),treatment to Riziya,the murder of Mujibur,killing spree in Middle East /Pakistan etc. Let me wait for Mr. Sharma'sreply.I will revert with a detailed note.half-baked truths will not go un-challenged.s.asimFrom: Shamsul Islam <notoinjustice@...>
To: ANIL SHARMA <anilsharma83@...>Cc: "email@example.com" <firstname.lastname@example.org>; "imemyself10020002000@..." <imemyself10020002000@...>Sent: Saturday, 17 August 2013 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: [INDIAN FIRST] Re: [Arkitect India] What's left unsaidAK Sharma ji,Urdu a language of unity and love can be used for propagating sectarian and fascist ideas by cadres of Hindutva, I am not surprised. It is no fault of Urdu. For your kind information, I am a Punjabi, love Urdu, Hindi and familiar with English too. It will be convenient for me and others if you write in English, so that, all can understand the sense of your postings better.I would like to draw your attention to the following points with reference to your last posting.(1) The debate started over my disagreement to naked abuses showered on Karan Thapar by Hindutva followers to one of his columns. I suggested that instead of abuses present arguments against him and convince. I also became target of abuses. You tell us what your take is on this. In order to divert the whole issue you raised the issue of secularism and seem to develop love for real secularism (against pseudo-secularism of Thapar) and claim that India had secularism for centuries. Thanks, you did not claim that India (which according to you means Hindus) for millions of years! Since theocratic politics of Hindutva cannot dismiss the concept of secularism, it claims to be the fore-runner. Please, tell me how was it practised? Through Ashwmedh Yagya, by forcing Dalits to stay out of villages/cities and practicing Manu Code, by burning widows? What do you think, Gandhi was killed by Hindutva criminals because he did not believe in SARVDHARAM SAMBHAAV?(2) You claim that Hindus are a monolithic whole, if this is so then there would be Muslims, Sikhs, Christians, Buddhists and Jains with the same feature. Thus India would be a country inhabited by antagonistic nations as held by ‘Veer’ Savarkar & MA Jinnah. Moreover, if all Hindus are one then how do you explain disrobing of Draupadi by her own kins, kidnapping of Sita by a great worshipper of Shiva, killing of Gandhi by Hindutva cadres and many-many more such inhuman and terrible incidents. Muslim counter-parts of your kind of thinking suffer from the same kind of poverty of philosophy.(3) You also claim that Sanatan Hindu Dharam is India. I wish you were familiar with ‘Satyarth Prakash’ by Dayanand Sarswati ji and writings by many Hindu scholars who oppose the claim of who describe all Hindus following Sanatan Dharma. All Hindus are one; this kind of claim encouraged a Hindutva ideologue, MS Golwalkar to demand that India must be ruled by one ideology, one flag and one leader. It is nothing else but Fascism.(4) According to you Islam & Christianity are foreign religions (that was the reason that MS Golwalkar demanded that followers of these two religions must be thrown out of the country). It is old favourite diatribe of RSS which you have picked up freshly from RSS shakhas. Do you dislike everything which comes from lands which is not Indian? Who invented electricity, use of steam power, automobiles, airplanes, penicillin, anti-biotic, radio, television, khaki shorts of RSS and accompanying shirt? Please also tell us where is Mansarovar Lake, a great tirath for Hindus? It is not in India should we discard it? Read Vivekananda ji what he said about role of Islam & Christianity in making India egalitarian.(5) I am not an expert regarding visitors who visit Hindu, Muslim and Christian religious places. However as a researcher of Casteism and Untouchability know that many Hindu temples do not allow even Hindus to visit these. Dr. Ambedkar led many movements for free entry of Dalits in temples, public roads, water tanks etc. The situation has not changed much. Puri temple is one of the examples. However, Muslim, Sikh, Buddh, Jain & Christian religious places do not bar anybody. This is the most important reason that Hindu temples remain out of reach. Despite it I personally know that morning Aarti at Sharda Ma’s temple at Maihar used to begin with Baba Allauddin’s sarod-vadan.Lastly, please, do not confuse democratic-secular and peace-loving Hindus of our country with gang of Hindutva cadres who killed Gandhi, served the interests of Muslim League and the British masters during freedom struggle and now want to convert India into a degenerated Manu State. S. Islam
SSSOn Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 6:53 PM, ANIL SHARMA <anilsharma83@...> wrote:Janab-e-Aali,Aap se guzarish hai ki aap Karan Thapar jaise Naamnihaad Seculariston ki baat par tavvajjo ne diya karen kyonki yeh log asli Secularism ke bajaaye Nehruvian Secularism ke pairokaar hain.Asli Secularism SARVDHARAM SAMBHAAV hai,jiska chalan Bharat mein sadiyon se hota chala aaya hai.Is mein sab Dharmon ko barabari ka darja diya jata hai.Lekin Nehruvian Secularism voh shai hai jise Nehru ne West ki galiyon se uthaaya tha.Is ke mutaabik Secularist voh insaan hota hai jo tarakki-e-khayalaat ki duhaai de kar har us baat ki muzzammat kare jo SANATAN HINDU DHARAM se vaavasta ho aur har us baat ke kaseede padhe jo SARZAMEEN-E-HIND ki sarhadon se hazaaron meel door paida hue mazhabon yani Islam aur Isaaiyat se vaavasta ho.Aur Janab-e-Aali ! Ek haqeeqat aur apne dimagh-e-sharif mein daal leejiye.Hindustan Hindu mulk hone ki vajah se hi secularist hai kyon ki sirf Hindu hi sahi mainon mein secularist hota hai.Aap ne dekha hoga ki Hindu na to Peeron fakeeron ki mazaaron par sajda karne se gurez karta hai aur na hi Girja Gharon me sajda karne se gurez karta hai.Siyaasatdaanon ko chhod kar na to koi Muslamaan Mandir me sajda karne jata hai aur na hi koi Isaai hi aisa karta hai.Sirf Hindu hi sab mazhabon ko aqeedat ki nazar se dakhta hai.Yadi aap bhi khulke dil-o-dimaagh se sochne ki zahmat farmaayenge to Insha-Allah aap ko bhi haqeeqat nazar aa hi jaaye gi.Nek Khawahishaat ke saath,A.K.SHARMACc: IHRO <email@example.com>; issueonline <firstname.lastname@example.org>; bharat-chintan <bharat-chintan@...>; indiathinkersnet <email@example.com>; mahajanapada <Mahajanapada@yahoogroups.com>; bahujan <Bahujan@yahoogroups.com>; sacred-illusions <sacred-illusions@...>; firstname.lastname@example.org; Janshakti <Janshakti@yahoogroups.com>; Indian <email@example.com>
Sent: Sunday, 11 August 2013 3:10 PMSubject: [INDIAN FIRST] Re: [Arkitect India] What's left unsaidAbuses being hurled on Karan Thapar by fans of Hindutva icon & RSS cadre, Narendra Modi ji, make two things very clear. Firstly, they have no argument to counter facts described by Thapar. Secondly, this is what you learn in a RSS shakha. In your hatred for democratic-secular India these elements even glorify theocratic states like Saudi Arabia. One very unfortunate aspect is that any debate on Modi turns into a debate on wickedness of Muslims. Nobody asks Modi and his club, what is their agenda for Hindus of this country? Let me just quote one statement from the English organ of RSS, Organizer which appeared on the eve of Independence. It is about our National Flag. "The people who have come to power by the kick of fate may give in our hands the Tricolour but it never [sic] be respected and owned by Hindus. The word three is in itself an evil, and a flag having three colours will certainly produce a very bad psychological effect and is injurious to a country.[Organizer,August 14, 1947]. The Hindutva camp wants to replace democratic-secular constitution by Manu Code which denigrates Hindu women and dalits. So far as Congress is concerned, RSS/BJP survives because Congress helps this gang to flourish. Both of them are two different sides of the coin.[Posting from Shamsul Islam on http://www.hindustantimes.com/editorial-views-on/KaranThapar/What-s-left-unsaid/Article1-1099535.aspx hindust]On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:28 PM, Sukla Sen <sukla.sen@...> wrote:http://www.hindustantimes.com/editorial-views-on/KaranThapar/What-s-left-unsaid/Article1-1099535.aspx
What's left unsaidKaran Thapar July 27, 2013First Published: 23:06 IST(27/7/2013) | Last Updated: 03:34 IST(28/7/2013)The recent angry exchanges between the Congress and the BJP hide more than they reveal. Whilst it’s true politicians often don’t speak the truth and rarely the full truth, on this occasion what they glossed over is far more important than what they said. Here’s a peek into what they left deliberately unsaid.First, Narendra Modi. He told Reuters he has been given a “thoroughly clean-chit” by the Supreme Court’s Special Investigation Team (SIT). Alas, that’s only part of the story.What Modi didn’t add was that the Supreme Court appointed an amicus curiae, Raju Ramachandran, to independently assess the SIT’s clean-chit. Ramachandran concluded that the allegations against Modi need to be heard in court rather than disposed of by an investigation. Whilst the SIT chose to disregard Ramachandran’s conclusion, the magistrate’s court in Ahmedabad accepted a protest petition by Zakia Jafri. It’s being heard on a daily basis.Two conclusions follow which Modi didn’t mention. The “thoroughly clean-chit” is under serious question and the last word has yet to be said.Second, Modi didn’t reveal what the Supreme Court has said of him. The argument that this is only obiter dicta does not hold for the most damning comment comparing him to Nero. That was part of the Zahira Habibullah Sheikh and Citizens for Justice and Peace vs State of Gujarat and others judgment pronounced on April 12, 2004. Here are the Supreme Court’s exact words: “The modern day ‘Neros’ were looking elsewhere when Best Bakery and innocent children and women were burning, and were probably deliberating how the perpetrators of the crime can be saved or protected. Law and Justice become flies in the hands of these ‘wanton boys’. When fences start to swallow the crops, no scope will be left for survival of law and order or truth and justice.”Third, when the BJP repeatedly casts aspersions on the CBI it forgets that in the Ishrat Jahan case it was appointed by the Gujarat High Court at the specific request of the state’s advocate general. So when the BJP claims the CBI is motivated it’s actually criticising the Gujarat High Court’s supervision.Now, let’s come to the Congress. It claims to be India’s most truly secular party. Sadly, its track record reveals embarrassing inconsistencies.Let’s focus on some from Rajiv Gandhi’s five years as prime minister. Today, more than his mother or grandfather, he is the party’s icon. However, the Congress would find it hard to defend what he did.First, in 1986, within months of its pronouncement, he reversed the Shah Bano judgment. It was a deliberate attempt to appease conservative Muslims because he was scared, after adverse by-election results, that the Congress could lose their vote. Then, in 1989, when he feared this had turned Hindus against him, he facilitated the shilanyas and sent home minister Buta Singh to participate. Weeks later he began his general election campaign from Faizabad promising Ram Rajya.However, Rajiv Gandhi also made sectarian appeals to India’s Christian minority. The Congress manifesto in January 1989 for the Mizoram election promised to promote ‘Christian socialism’. This was a blatant attempt to get the church on its side. It succeeded but it was hardly a shining example of the Congress’ secularism.Of course, none of this was revealed by either the BJP or the Congress. But then you wouldn’t expect them to incriminate themselves. However, the next time the BJP claims a clean-chit for Modi or the Congress trumpets its secularism, you’ll know there’s more to either story than we’re being told.-- Peace Is Doable