Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [Arkitect India] Two topics of intense discussion

Expand Messages
  • Dr Hiren Gohain
    Thank you.Yes,the police force must be re-organised,and its administrative structure drastically reformed.[Delhi Police should be under the state
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 21, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      Thank you.Yes,the police force must be re-organised,and its administrative structure drastically reformed.[Delhi Police should be under the state government,which alone makes sense.For V V I P security a  detachment may be deputed to the Centre.].Political control and interference must be minimised.The recommendations of various Police Commissions have plenty of sound practical recommendations.
      An independent Police Commission must promptly investigate all complaints of dereliction of duty and gross negligence before such cases are referred for criminal prosecution.The nonsense about community policing spewed by devious politicians must be rejected.It is not workable in metropolitan environments with floating population.Police training,forensic examination,etc. must be professional.
       
      As for death penalty a period of six months to one year must be interposed before execution to eliminate all possibility of error.In USA
      innocent people have been punished in cases where the real solution was found years later by accident.Life Imprisonment in heinous cases must not be reduced to 14 years automatically.Judges must review the circumstances of the original  crime.If it showed pathological savagery, a vicious temperament or cold-blooded planning,leniency may be ruled out.
      Hiren Gohain.


      On Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 10:08 PM, Amitabh Thakur <amitabhth@...> wrote:
       


      Friends,

      Two of my write-ups on issues presently under hectic and intense discussion. Would request for your comments please.

      Amitabh Thakur
      # 094155-34526


      For a better policing

      In the wake of the spate of rapes and the alleged poor response of the police in these offences, if we really want a better policing in India, we need to stop our superficial approach and go for some of the fundamental reasons for the current state of affairs.
      Some of the things that are immediately needed include-
      1.       Strictest action against the delinquents in police- This can happen only when we have an Independent Police Complaint enquiry system as found in Britain and many other foreign countries and as emphasized by the Supreme Court in the Police Reforms case
      2.       Not limiting the action against policemen to mere administrative measures but to initiate criminal proceedings as well, as and when a policeman is found deliberately criminally liable in his conduct
      3.       Immediately improve all the basic infrastructural requirements of police and police personnel. We can never have good policing with meager resources, logistical support, small number of policemen etc
      4.       Stop the power distance between the so-called superior and subordinate officer in the police department and create a working environment where all the policemen feel they are equal, working together for a common cause
      5.       Massively increase the promotional avenues of the subordinate police officers, no less than that of IPS/PPS officers
      6.       Stop the inhumane treatment of subordinate police officers in the department, including their use in household and personal works
      7.       Very special emphasis and focus on behavioural contents and interaction with public and stern action in case of all improprieties found here
      Improving police and policing is not all that difficult. The only thing needed is the wish to do so.
       
      Hang Till Death

      There are many who oppose the concept of death penalty and completely loath the word- hang till death. With due regards to their sense and sensibility, I would venture to say that they possibly want to live in a fools’ paradise. I am sorry for using these strong words and they are not meant to hurt, humiliate or demean anyone. The only purpose is to give such people a jolt so that they get ready to listen to what one of their ideological opponents wants to say.
      Without going into the details of the philosophical expostulations of death penalty and its opposition, I would come straight to the point by saying that I very very strongly argue for death penalty for all truly heinous crimes like murder (in all its forms), brutal rape, serious cases of terrorism etc because-
      1.       Fear is one of the fundamental guiding principles of human psyche. If love and respect are to be given due importance in any society, a strong sense of fear is a sin-qua-non for any society to keep itself clean and healthy. It is like spraying strong insecticide in a place which we really want to keep safe from the unwanted insects.
      2.       There is nothing inhuman in treating a non-human with the sentence of death. The principle of adequate and appropriate awards and punishments is very important for any healthy system. The only precaution that is needed to develop a mechanism that is efficient and fair but this does not mean that we shall thrown away the baby (death penalty) with water (the fear of any alleged injustice)
      3.       If a system does not give a very stringent penalty (of death) to a person who went beyond all limits of inhumanity, it is apparent that this system is failing in its duty
      4.       There is nothing extraordinary in taking away a human being’s life, when it has been well-established through a fair trial process in the due process of law that the person being awarded death penalty has, all through his barbarous act, been behaving as an unbridled, deadly and venomous animal, having no respect for humanness in any manner
      5.       Governance and administration cannot be based solely on superficial and puppy emotionality but it needs hard though fair decisions, including death penalties in appropriate cases, when so warranted
      In sum, while death penalties shall be given in the “rarest of the rare cases” in the same vein as the legal principle established by the Supreme Court of India, yet the words “rarest of the rare” should not be artificially restricted in any manner but shall include within its fold all such cases where humanity has been a clear sufferer and where the perpetrator of crime has crossed all limits of humanity and has adopted gruesome, barbaric and ghastly means in the process of his criminal act.
      Yes, we do need to have a fair and foolproof system of justice, and we shall also have death sentences for all such crimes where the limits of humanity were visibly and clearly crossed.
       
      Amitabh
       
       


    • Pushkar Raj
      In a money driven legal process and society that has under currents of legion of prejudices pervading deep down, death sentence is a crime repeated against
      Message 2 of 7 , Apr 24, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        In a money driven legal process and society that has under currents of legion of prejudices pervading deep down,  death sentence is a crime repeated against life by society as a whole...
        pushkar raj

          


        On 24 April 2013 14:08, Shah Alam Khan <shahalamkhan70@...> wrote:
         

        Dear All,

        I am not the least surprised on what Mr.Thakur, who appears to be a policeman every inch, has written regarding hanging. In his inanity of towing the line of death sentence to rape accusers he forgot some important points. In fact using his own jargon, I would say he fell into puppy emotionality while arguing for death sentence in cases of rape and similar crimes. 

        He considers FEAR as the fundamental deterrent when he clamors for hanging in such cases. He forgets that this country does have hanging for the crime of murder but murders take place at frightening pace. So fear definitely does not work in a manner in which he argues. Mr. Thakur forgot that it’s not the fear of death, that is, the severity of punishment, which is the deterrent; rather the consistency of punishment, which works. Quick justice in all cases is what is required rather than hanging. 

        I am surprised why he doesn’t see hanging as an inhuman act? The irreversibility of hanging as a punishment makes it a dangerous weapon. How can we ignore the fact that a large number of countries (even those with a socio-economic milieu like ours) have long abolished capital punishment? He writes, and I quote, “there is nothing extraordinary in taking away a human being’s life, when it has been well-established through a fair trial process in the due process of law that the person being awarded death penalty has, all through his barbarous act, been behaving as an unbridled, deadly and venomous animal, having no respect for humanness in any manner”. Isn’t this an eye for an eye argument? Or will Mr. Thakur call this puppy emotionality?  There is always something extraordinary in taking away the life of a human being….at least for the common man if not for a Policewala! The fairness of a trial in a democracy cannot be questioned but its authenticity can be challenged. Why otherwise would we have such a ruckus in Afzal Guru’s case? Perception of justice is different than justice being actually done.

        It’s shocking that the literate, intellectual class of this country is arguing for capital punishment in this day and age. To me such demands are the harbinger of fascism in a setup. Clamor for capital punishment comes when there are poor chances of repairing a rotten system......when we are afraid to review our faults and our inaccuracies. System never demands capital punishment, some in the system do. In the words of Henry Ford, capital punishment is as fundamentally wrong as a cure for crime as charity is wrong for the cure of poverty.

        Dr. Shah Alam Khan

        AIIMS, New Delhi

        On Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 10:08 PM, Amitabh Thakur <amitabhth@...> wrote:
         


        Friends,

        Two of my write-ups on issues presently under hectic and intense discussion. Would request for your comments please.

        Amitabh Thakur
        # 094155-34526


        For a better policing

        In the wake of the spate of rapes and the alleged poor response of the police in these offences, if we really want a better policing in India, we need to stop our superficial approach and go for some of the fundamental reasons for the current state of affairs.
        Some of the things that are immediately needed include-
        1.       Strictest action against the delinquents in police- This can happen only when we have an Independent Police Complaint enquiry system as found in Britain and many other foreign countries and as emphasized by the Supreme Court in the Police Reforms case
        2.       Not limiting the action against policemen to mere administrative measures but to initiate criminal proceedings as well, as and when a policeman is found deliberately criminally liable in his conduct
        3.       Immediately improve all the basic infrastructural requirements of police and police personnel. We can never have good policing with meager resources, logistical support, small number of policemen etc
        4.       Stop the power distance between the so-called superior and subordinate officer in the police department and create a working environment where all the policemen feel they are equal, working together for a common cause
        5.       Massively increase the promotional avenues of the subordinate police officers, no less than that of IPS/PPS officers
        6.       Stop the inhumane treatment of subordinate police officers in the department, including their use in household and personal works
        7.       Very special emphasis and focus on behavioural contents and interaction with public and stern action in case of all improprieties found here
        Improving police and policing is not all that difficult. The only thing needed is the wish to do so.
         
        Hang Till Death

        There are many who oppose the concept of death penalty and completely loath the word- hang till death. With due regards to their sense and sensibility, I would venture to say that they possibly want to live in a fools’ paradise. I am sorry for using these strong words and they are not meant to hurt, humiliate or demean anyone. The only purpose is to give such people a jolt so that they get ready to listen to what one of their ideological opponents wants to say.
        Without going into the details of the philosophical expostulations of death penalty and its opposition, I would come straight to the point by saying that I very very strongly argue for death penalty for all truly heinous crimes like murder (in all its forms), brutal rape, serious cases of terrorism etc because-
        1.       Fear is one of the fundamental guiding principles of human psyche. If love and respect are to be given due importance in any society, a strong sense of fear is a sin-qua-non for any society to keep itself clean and healthy. It is like spraying strong insecticide in a place which we really want to keep safe from the unwanted insects.
        2.       There is nothing inhuman in treating a non-human with the sentence of death. The principle of adequate and appropriate awards and punishments is very important for any healthy system. The only precaution that is needed to develop a mechanism that is efficient and fair but this does not mean that we shall thrown away the baby (death penalty) with water (the fear of any alleged injustice)
        3.       If a system does not give a very stringent penalty (of death) to a person who went beyond all limits of inhumanity, it is apparent that this system is failing in its duty
        4.       There is nothing extraordinary in taking away a human being’s life, when it has been well-established through a fair trial process in the due process of law that the person being awarded death penalty has, all through his barbarous act, been behaving as an unbridled, deadly and venomous animal, having no respect for humanness in any manner
        5.       Governance and administration cannot be based solely on superficial and puppy emotionality but it needs hard though fair decisions, including death penalties in appropriate cases, when so warranted
        In sum, while death penalties shall be given in the “rarest of the rare cases” in the same vein as the legal principle established by the Supreme Court of India, yet the words “rarest of the rare” should not be artificially restricted in any manner but shall include within its fold all such cases where humanity has been a clear sufferer and where the perpetrator of crime has crossed all limits of humanity and has adopted gruesome, barbaric and ghastly means in the process of his criminal act.
        Yes, we do need to have a fair and foolproof system of justice, and we shall also have death sentences for all such crimes where the limits of humanity were visibly and clearly crossed.
         
        Amitabh
         
         




        --
        MS, DNB, MRCSEd, FRCS, M.Ch.Orth (Liverpool)
        Additional Professor
        Department of Orthopaedics
        All India Institute of Medical Sciences
        Ansari Nagar, New Delhi-110029
        INDIA
        Joint Secretary, Indian Orthopaedic Association
        Associate Editor, Indian Journal of Orthopaedics


      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.