Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [india-unity] FW: The Real Boundaries of the Bible Belt

Expand Messages
  • Xavier William
    My dear Walter, Could you pl explain how secularism can be reinvented in the Indian environment? They have been reinventing it for 2000 years not only in
    Message 1 of 2 , Nov 21, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      My dear Walter,
      Could you pl explain how secularism can be reinvented in the Indian environment?
      They have been reinventing it for 2000 years not only in Christian or Muslim countries but all over.
      In Europe there were many religions and faiths. Christianity came and  they reinvented things by forcing everyone into Christianity
      In Arabia islam came they reinvented things and destroyed all the other cultural religions in the area. What is more they also took on what Mohammad called "The People of the book"(Jews, Christians and Saeans) and decimated their numbers.
      In India there were many religions and violence between Vaishnavites, Shivaites, Buddists, Jains, Sikhs and charvakas was not unknown before Muslims and Christians came in and now you are talking of reinventing. Reinventing secularism for India is as ridiculous as reinventing the wheel and even more impractical.
      Another thing is tolerance. Toleration is a minimum program. Thus if there is leper or an HIV patient living next door to me, I have to tolerate him or her. Toleration is not a positive thing. Instead empathy is. Thus in theory it is possible for a Christian to put himself in a Hindu's shoes and empathise with the hindu religion and its practices. However religions like Judaism, Christinaity and islam and their sects  claim adamantly that theirs is the only true god-ordained religion or sect. how can such beliefs forge tolerance or empathy?


      On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 9:34 AM, Dr Walter Fernandes <walter.nesrc@...> wrote:
       

      

      Separation of religion and the State is possible where there is an organised religion as in Christianity. We do not need to transfer this definition blindly to India and say that Indian secularism is not secularism. We need to reinvent it to suit the needs of a country in which religion is a way of life and not the organisation alone. Respect for all religions including atheisting and agnostic philosophies is probably a direction in which we should search for an answer.
       
      Secondly, I am not sure that France practise the western type of secularism fully. I have lived in that country for three and a half years and have visited it many times after it. I am not sure that it is true. Even in Communist countries, the manner in which the Stalin regime got the cooperation of the Orthodox Church beginning from 1942 is not a sign of separation between the Church and the State. It is part of the competition between the two for several centuries and in the USSR the secular regime succeeded in bringing the Church under its control. Bye
       
      Walter
       
      Dr Walter Fernandes
      North Eastern Social Research Centre
      110 Kharghuli Road (1st floor)
      Guwahati 781-004
      Assam, India
      Tel. (+91-361) 2602819
      Fax: (+91-361) 2602713 (Attn. NESRC)
      Email: nesrcghy@...
      Website: www.nesrc.org
      Webpage: www.creighton.edu/CollaborativeMinistry/NESRC
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 10:16 PM
      Subject: Re: [india-unity] FW: The Real Boundaries of the Bible Belt

       

      Secular fanaticism  (State has nothing to do with religion)  is not the answer to India. Religions are fondly followed by the citizens of the State and the State has a duty to protect the legitimate interests of its citizens. Indian secularism is Secularism if the State do not discriminate between religions, if the state do not fear  religions or its followers, if the state shows the gut to check religions or its followers if it violate the rule of the land.  

      From: Sukla Sen <sukla.sen@...>
      To: india-unity@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 6:11 PM
      Subject: Re: [india-unity] FW: The Real Boundaries of the Bible Belt
       
      I guess the communist governments did away with religion in the
      affairs of the state.
      I also guess that some West European countries including France have
      done the same.

      "Indian secularism" is no "secularism". It means that the state will
      not discriminate between religions, whereas "secularism" demands that
      the sate has got nothing to do with religion.

      Sukla

      On 19/11/2012, syed saleem <mailto:syed_s2000%40yahoo.com> wrote:
      > By the way, sukla ji, which government in the world which boasted of
      > secularism totally alienated itself from the religion and got its citizenns
      > rid of the religion? The word secular as defined here just denotes things
      > that are not connected to religion in general terms. There is a mention of
      > secular music but there no such mention as secular administration, secular
      > governance, relations,etc. How do you define indian secularism?
      > Saleem
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: Sukla Sen <mailto:sukla.sen%40gmail.com>
      > To: mailto:india-unity%40yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 1:18 PM
      > Subject: Re: [india-unity] FW: The Real Boundaries of the Bible Belt
      >
      >
      >
      > sec·u·lar   [sek-yuh-ler] Show IPA
      > adjective
      > 1.
      > of or pertaining to worldly things or to things that are notregarded as religious, spiritual, or sacred; temporal: secularinterests.
      > 2.
      > not pertaining to or connected with religion ( opposed tosacred): secular music.
      > 3.
      > (of education, a school, etc.) concerned with nonreligioussubjects.
      > 4.
      > (of members of the clergy) not belonging to a religious order;not bound by monastic vows ( opposed to regular).
      > 5.
      > occurring or celebrated once in an age or century: the seculargames of Rome.
      >
      > [Source: <http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/secular?s=t>.]
      >
      > By the way, I'm Sukla, not Shukla.
      >
      > Sukla
      >
      > On 19 November 2012 11:22, syed saleem <mailto:syed_s2000%40yahoo.com> wrote:
      >
      >
      >>
      >>Let it be Shukla ji. The fact that people do not want to give up religion
      >> leaves no option but to make religion as much secular as possible and
      >> there we get the idea of a 'secular religion'. Secular religion is not
      >> impossible if the wise people of religion strive to achieve it
      >>
      >>
      >>Saleem
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>________________________________
      >> From: Sukla Sen <mailto:sukla.sen%40gmail.com>
      >>To: mailto:india-unity%40yahoogroups.com
      >>Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 8:31 AM
      >>Subject: Re: [india-unity] FW: The Real Boundaries of the Bible Belt
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>It's an oxymoron: "secular religion".
      >>"Secular" means not connected with religion. (Source:
      >><http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/secular?s=t>.)
      >>
      >>Sukla
      >>
      >>On 19/11/2012, syed saleem <mailto:syed_s2000%40yahoo.com> wrote:
      >>> That is why a secular religion is the need of the hour to avoid that
      >>> 'overtly communal' nature of the religious folk.
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> ________________________________
      >>> From: Farida Majid <mailto:farida_majid%40hotmail.com>
      >>> To:
      >>> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 1:18 AM
      >>> Subject: [india-unity] FW: The Real Boundaries of the Bible Belt
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> http://www.theatlanticcities.com/politics/2012/03/real-boundaries-bible-belt/1617/
      >>> The Real Boundaries of the Bible Belt
      >>> The Real Boundaries of the Bible Belt http://www.theatlanticcities.com/
      >>> Perhaps its time to start referring to a 'religiosity belt,' instead.
      >>> In the India-Pakistan-Bangladesh subcontinental societies, it is no
      >>> longer
      >>> safe to believe that shift from religious to secular values is a sure
      >>> indicative of economic advancement. The emergent middle class (both at
      >>> home and in the diaspora abroad) has become more visibly religious and
      >>> overtly communal. Do you agree?
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> ________________________________
      >>> Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 12:04:01 -0800
      >>> From: mailto:fmayraj%40yahoo.com
      >>> Subject: The Real Boundaries of the Bible Belt
      >>> To: mailto:farida_majid%40hotmail.com
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> http://www.theatlanticcities.com/politics/2012/03/real-boundaries-bible-belt/1617/
      >>> The Real Boundaries of the Bible Belt
      >>>
      >>
      >>--
      >>Peace Is Doable
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      > --
      > Peace Is Doable
      >
      >

      --
      Peace Is Doable




      --
      Regards

      Xavier William

      www.eitctours.com - tours to Kerala and Lakshadweep
      (God gave us reason; not religion - World Union of Deists)



    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.