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Re: [arkitectindia] Fwd: Comments on Prime Minister's advise to youngster to talk about sex.

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  • Elizabeth Negi
    Mr. Maruf has given very simplistic answers to complex facts. Make no doubt that men and women are victims of a patriarchal society. Religion as we practice it
    Message 1 of 3 , Dec 6, 2005
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      Mr. Maruf has given very simplistic answers to complex facts. Make no doubt that men and women are victims of a patriarchal society. Religion as we practice it is also steeped in patriarchal practices.
       
      Isn't it strange that when Indian parents advise their youngsters to refrain from using gutka or tobacco then parents don't have the sophistication that is needed for today's world. But strangely enough when any parent asks their young sons to burn their wives or abort their unborn female child then of course the parents know what they are talking about!! Don't forget irrespective of our teachings, upbringing or religion we tend to do what suits us best.
       
      the choices youngsters make are not going to be influenced by a Khusboo or Shobha de. In many south Indian films portray uncle niece marriages - that becomes acceptable because there is a traditional sanction to it. This practice would not find acceptance in North India. We didn't find the young women of India streaking because Protima Bedi did.
       
      Dr. Elizabeth Negi
       
      On 12/5/05, Ghulam Muhammed <ghulam_muhammed2@...> wrote:


      Amjad Maruf <amjad_smartboy@...> wrote:
      Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 21:34:37 -0800 (PST)
      From: Amjad Maruf < amjad_smartboy@...>
      Subject: Comments on Prime Minister's advise to youngster to talk about sex.
      To: amjad_maruf@...

      04.12.2005

      Sir,

      It amazes me to see so many people including
      celebrities like Shobha De rejoicing over Prime
      Minister Manmohan Singh's views on safe sex. PM's
      advise of practicing safe sex and talking openly about
      sex should not be construed as legitimacy of illegal
      sex or permission to have pre-marital sex. Indians
      have the penchant to interpret things according to
      their whims and fancies. So when PM asks people to
      shed their inhibitions then don't be surprised if
      youngsters start shedding their clothes instead of
      their inhibitions? "Promiscuity is my birthright and I
      shall have it" will be their mantra now. Celebrities
      like Shobha De rejoice and their faces glow when PM
      talks about sex and when I & B Minister permit
      onscreen kissing. She welcomes them to the 21st
      century. For people like her a women's plunging
      neckline and rising hemline is a sign of their
      boldness and assertiveness, a person's sexual prowess
      is construed as modernity, uninhibited sexual talk is
      sexual emancipation for them no matter if the open sex
      talks leads them to the bed, eventually. One things
      lead to another. Film stars, sportspersons, media and
      the Prime Minister have provided a leeway now. Let's
      see the consequences in future. Now, let's install
      condom machines outside colleges and schools, have
      movies with sexual scenes screened at theatres and
      advise youngsters to talk about sex and practice safe
      sex. Then, it would be interesting to see whether AIDS
      epidemic is kept under check our spirals out of
      control. One DNA reader says that with Khushboo
      controversy Indian was back to the era of dinosaurs
      implying that we are going backwards. But he should
      know that these backward people did not contact AIDS.
      The disease, though existing for ages, has become
      rampant today due blatant exhibition of sex by the
      modern youth. So who is to blame for AIDS, the old
      regressive generation who believed in sex after
      marriage, or today's promiscuous modern generation?

      One fails to understand as to how talking openly about
      sex would solve the problem of AIDS. In India we
      openly talk about tobacco being dangerous for health.
      Parents openly ask their children to desist from
      smoking and eating gutkha. But people still continue
      with their smoking and gutkha consumption. We have
      been talking about deadly Malaria and TB but how many
      people take precautions and has the talking solved the
      problem. If smoking is to be banned production is to
      be banned, if TB and Malaria is to be checked the
      living conditions has to be improved. Talking has not
      solved any problems in India be that of diseases or
      vices plaguing the Indians. Likewise, if AIDS has to
      be eradicated then some stern measures should be
      taken. Being open about sex is only a decorative
      measure to combat AIDS. It is imperative that AIDS
      test is made compulsory before marriage. This could
      serve as a deterrent for many youngsters indulging in
      pre-marital sex. If anyone is found getting married in
      spite of having AIDS he should be punished severely.
      If anyone tries to get fake medical certificates then
      the person making and the person asking for these
      certificates should both be given death penalty as
      their act could have endangered a human life. And what
      better way to prevent AIDS then abstinence from
      pre-marital sex. Once passion arouses safety goes out
      of the wind. Safety is the last thing in the mind of
      the couples in their wild moments of passion. A
      completely sloshed person/couple can't be expected to
      have safe sex either. Besides, in India privacy comes
      at a premium (thanks to moral police) for the lovers.
      Therefore whenever they get a chance to make out at
      any secluded place they do it impromptu. Where's the
      time (and place) for them to think about safety? And
      the talk of playing it safe while having pre-marital
      sex does not hold any water, as condoms are not 100
      percent safe and oral sex can cause AIDS too.
      Moreover, if talking about sex is the solution then
      make sex education compulsory in schools and colleges.
      Though one doubts it's utility. Off the cuff
      statements on sex and casual remarks on premarital sex
      is dangerous as either the youngsters interpret it in
      a wrong way or the statements does not have any effect
      at all. And if one should talk about sex then why not
      talk about abstinence from pre-marital sex. But then
      how will men show their machismo and women their
      sensuality. Why not talk about religion as every
      religion advocates abstinence from illegal sex. But
      talking about religion is so uncool and a sign of
      regressiveness for today's young generation and
      so-called modern people. Why not talk about being
      faithful towards one's partner? But then the
      youngsters are not interested in such talks. They want
      a "no-strings-attached- relationship" and are always
      on a lookout for greener pasteaurs. If we want to talk
      then why not talk about marriage. But then youngsters
      don't want to take up responsibilities. If one has to
      talk then youngsters should also talk about other
      modes of transmission of the virus also? But anything
      other then sex talk is so boring for them. Therefore
      talks are useless, mostly. Only a person's conscience,
      his character and his upbringing will determine his
      sexual life and would be a precursor to acquiring AIDS
      or not.

      Getting acquainted with AIDS cause has become a sort
      of status symbol. How many of the NGOs have been
      devoting their time to Malaria and TB the largest
      cause of death in India. But then there is a kind of
      glamour attached to the AIDS cause. Hollywood
      celebrities like Richard Gere come to India and the
      various NGOs bask in the glory. The heavy fund that is
      doled out does not reach the victims at all. Bollywood
      celebrities dance and sing in the live shows and
      concerts held for AIDS. We don't remember film stars
      doing the same for Malaria or TB.

      Moreover, shouldn't we view the problem of premarital
      sex, safe or unsafe outside the prism of AIDs and
      unwanted pregnancies? There are various other
      drawbacks of pre-marital sex, safe or unsafe, which in
      their obsession to vindicate Khushboo etc people have
      been overlooking. It concerns women who not only are
      the victim of AIDS but due to other social and mental
      problems. Everyone talks about physical safety but
      what about mental safety. Can the partners handle the
      mental trauma if their sexual partner ditches them
      after having sex? Women look for emotional attachment
      in relationships. Sharing and feeling is more
      important than sexual intercourse. If a woman gets
      cheated after pre-marital sex then the sense of
      disillusionment and betrayal can play havoc with her
      mental condition. Ditto for males. Another drawback of
      pre-marital sex is that there is a danger of partners
      secretly filming the sexual act and blackmailing the
      partner for exchange of money. This could affect
      someone's married life. And who can ignore the cases
      wherein women have filed false rape cases after being
      spurned by the lover. A sexual encounter with mutual
      consent suddenly becomes rape in such cases. After all
      this if we still want to believe that only practicing
      safe sex using a condom makes pre-marital sex safe
      then the young generation, particularly women are in
      real danger.

      AIDS will not vanish in the air by talking but by
      taking stern measures to prevent, check, treat and
      eradicate the disease. Can the government make AIDS
      test compulsory, can the government ensure that there
      are enough hospitals for AIDS victims, will AIDS drugs
      be made cheap, what kind of efforts will be undertaken
      to ensure that the AIDS victims are socially accepted
      and are properly treated at hospitals? Unless the
      government takes all these stern measures to prevent
      and eradicate AIDS epidemic then all this talk of
      openly talking about sex is only a loose talk that is
      not worth talking about at all.


      AMJAD K. MARUF
      601, Shringeri – A
      Holy Cross Road, I.C. Colony
      Borivali (W), Mumbai – 400103






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    • bholenath_vishwakarma@ril.com
      Well i do agree with you Elizabeth, Maruf sound quite parochial and pompous. promiscuity has been everywhere, the only thing is that we never used to talk
      Message 2 of 3 , Dec 7, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        Well i do agree with you Elizabeth,

        Maruf sound quite parochial and pompous.

        promiscuity has been everywhere, the only thing is that we never used to
        talk about it.

        You can't force things on people forget about youngsters. Do you see the
        invasion of jeans? No girl would like to be seen without wearing one.
        (forgive the pun) And all this talk of male grooming and Metrosexual...its
        all part and parcel of getting advanced and modern. Denying sexual aspect
        of modern living is like asking a kid not to play.

        when youngster will get on Maruf' age they will also think and become like
        him. but till they are young they are going to choose what they see around
        and what THEY think is good for them.

        so don't fret on what PM says and which socialist peddler of smut ( am is
        taking about shobhaa de?) says anything about it. In fact i feel that
        shobhaaa De is so ugly and old that youngster will abstain form whatever
        she says is good:-)

        regards




        Elizabeth Negi
        <efnegi@...
        > To
        Sent by: arkitectindia@yahoogroups.com
        arkitectindia@yah cc
        oogroups.com
        Subject
        Re: [arkitectindia] Fwd: Comments
        07/12/2005 00:39 on Prime Minister's advise to
        youngster to talk about sex.

        Please respond to
        arkitectindia@yah
        oogroups.com






        Mr. Maruf has given very simplistic answers to complex facts. Make no doubt
        that men and women are victims of a patriarchal society. Religion as we
        practice it is also steeped in patriarchal practices.

        Isn't it strange that when Indian parents advise their youngsters to
        refrain from using gutka or tobacco then parents don't have the
        sophistication that is needed for today's world. But strangely enough when
        any parent asks their young sons to burn their wives or abort their unborn
        female child then of course the parents know what they are talking about!!
        Don't forget irrespective of our teachings, upbringing or religion we tend
        to do what suits us best.

        the choices youngsters make are not going to be influenced by a Khusboo or
        Shobha de. In many south Indian films portray uncle niece marriages - that
        becomes acceptable because there is a traditional sanction to it. This
        practice would not find acceptance in North India. We didn't find the young
        women of India streaking because Protima Bedi did.

        Dr. Elizabeth Negi

        On 12/5/05, Ghulam Muhammed <ghulam_muhammed2@...> wrote:


        Amjad Maruf <amjad_smartboy@...> wrote:
        Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 21:34:37 -0800 (PST)
        From: Amjad Maruf < amjad_smartboy@...>
        Subject: Comments on Prime Minister's advise to youngster to talk about
        sex.
        To: amjad_maruf@...

        04.12.2005

        Sir,

        It amazes me to see so many people including
        celebrities like Shobha De rejoicing over Prime
        Minister Manmohan Singh's views on safe sex. PM's
        advise of practicing safe sex and talking openly about
        sex should not be construed as legitimacy of illegal
        sex or permission to have pre-marital sex. Indians
        have the penchant to interpret things according to
        their whims and fancies. So when PM asks people to
        shed their inhibitions then don't be surprised if
        youngsters start shedding their clothes instead of
        their inhibitions? "Promiscuity is my birthright and I
        shall have it" will be their mantra now. Celebrities
        like Shobha De rejoice and their faces glow when PM
        talks about sex and when I & B Minister permit
        onscreen kissing. She welcomes them to the 21st
        century. For people like her a women's plunging
        neckline and rising hemline is a sign of their
        boldness and assertiveness, a person's sexual prowess
        is construed as modernity, uninhibited sexual talk is
        sexual emancipation for them no matter if the open sex
        talks leads them to the bed, eventually. One things
        lead to another. Film stars, sportspersons, media and
        the Prime Minister have provided a leeway now. Let's
        see the consequences in future. Now, let's install
        condom machines outside colleges and schools, have
        movies with sexual scenes screened at theatres and
        advise youngsters to talk about sex and practice safe
        sex. Then, it would be interesting to see whether AIDS
        epidemic is kept under check our spirals out of
        control. One DNA reader says that with Khushboo
        controversy Indian was back to the era of dinosaurs
        implying that we are going backwards. But he should
        know that these backward people did not contact AIDS.
        The disease, though existing for ages, has become
        rampant today due blatant exhibition of sex by the
        modern youth. So who is to blame for AIDS, the old
        regressive generation who believed in sex after
        marriage, or today's promiscuous modern generation?

        One fails to understand as to how talking openly about
        sex would solve the problem of AIDS. In India we
        openly talk about tobacco being dangerous for health.
        Parents openly ask their children to desist from
        smoking and eating gutkha. But people still continue
        with their smoking and gutkha consumption. We have
        been talking about deadly Malaria and TB but how many
        people take precautions and has the talking solved the
        problem. If smoking is to be banned production is to
        be banned, if TB and Malaria is to be checked the
        living conditions has to be improved. Talking has not
        solved any problems in India be that of diseases or
        vices plaguing the Indians. Likewise, if AIDS has to
        be eradicated then some stern measures should be
        taken. Being open about sex is only a decorative
        measure to combat AIDS. It is imperative that AIDS
        test is made compulsory before marriage. This could
        serve as a deterrent for many youngsters indulging in
        pre-marital sex. If anyone is found getting married in
        spite of having AIDS he should be punished severely.
        If anyone tries to get fake medical certificates then
        the person making and the person asking for these
        certificates should both be given death penalty as
        their act could have endangered a human life. And what
        better way to prevent AIDS then abstinence from
        pre-marital sex. Once passion arouses safety goes out
        of the wind. Safety is the last thing in the mind of
        the couples in their wild moments of passion. A
        completely sloshed person/couple can't be expected to
        have safe sex either. Besides, in India privacy comes
        at a premium (thanks to moral police) for the lovers.
        Therefore whenever they get a chance to make out at
        any secluded place they do it impromptu. Where's the
        time (and place) for them to think about safety? And
        the talk of playing it safe while having pre-marital
        sex does not hold any water, as condoms are not 100
        percent safe and oral sex can cause AIDS too.
        Moreover, if talking about sex is the solution then
        make sex education compulsory in schools and colleges.
        Though one doubts it's utility. Off the cuff
        statements on sex and casual remarks on premarital sex
        is dangerous as either the youngsters interpret it in
        a wrong way or the statements does not have any effect
        at all. And if one should talk about sex then why not
        talk about abstinence from pre-marital sex. But then
        how will men show their machismo and women their
        sensuality. Why not talk about religion as every
        religion advocates abstinence from illegal sex. But
        talking about religion is so uncool and a sign of
        regressiveness for today's young generation and
        so-called modern people. Why not talk about being
        faithful towards one's partner? But then the
        youngsters are not interested in such talks. They want
        a "no-strings-attached- relationship" and are always
        on a lookout for greener pasteaurs. If we want to talk
        then why not talk about marriage. But then youngsters
        don't want to take up responsibilities. If one has to
        talk then youngsters should also talk about other
        modes of transmission of the virus also? But anything
        other then sex talk is so boring for them. Therefore
        talks are useless, mostly. Only a person's conscience,
        his character and his upbringing will determine his
        sexual life and would be a precursor to acquiring AIDS
        or not.

        Getting acquainted with AIDS cause has become a sort
        of status symbol. How many of the NGOs have been
        devoting their time to Malaria and TB the largest
        cause of death in India. But then there is a kind of
        glamour attached to the AIDS cause. Hollywood
        celebrities like Richard Gere come to India and the
        various NGOs bask in the glory. The heavy fund that is
        doled out does not reach the victims at all. Bollywood
        celebrities dance and sing in the live shows and
        concerts held for AIDS. We don't remember film stars
        doing the same for Malaria or TB.

        Moreover, shouldn't we view the problem of premarital
        sex, safe or unsafe outside the prism of AIDs and
        unwanted pregnancies? There are various other
        drawbacks of pre-marital sex, safe or unsafe, which in
        their obsession to vindicate Khushboo etc people have
        been overlooking. It concerns women who not only are
        the victim of AIDS but due to other social and mental
        problems. Everyone talks about physical safety but
        what about mental safety. Can the partners handle the
        mental trauma if their sexual partner ditches them
        after having sex? Women look for emotional attachment
        in relationships. Sharing and feeling is more
        important than sexual intercourse. If a woman gets
        cheated after pre-marital sex then the sense of
        disillusionment and betrayal can play havoc with her
        mental condition. Ditto for males. Another drawback of
        pre-marital sex is that there is a danger of partners
        secretly filming the sexual act and blackmailing the
        partner for exchange of money. This could affect
        someone's married life. And who can ignore the cases
        wherein women have filed false rape cases after being
        spurned by the lover. A sexual encounter with mutual
        consent suddenly becomes rape in such cases. After all
        this if we still want to believe that only practicing
        safe sex using a condom makes pre-marital sex safe
        then the young generation, particularly women are in
        real danger.

        AIDS will not vanish in the air by talking but by
        taking stern measures to prevent, check, treat and
        eradicate the disease. Can the government make AIDS
        test compulsory, can the government ensure that there
        are enough hospitals for AIDS victims, will AIDS drugs
        be made cheap, what kind of efforts will be undertaken
        to ensure that the AIDS victims are socially accepted
        and are properly treated at hospitals? Unless the
        government takes all these stern measures to prevent
        and eradicate AIDS epidemic then all this talk of
        openly talking about sex is only a loose talk that is
        not worth talking about at all.


        AMJAD K. MARUF
        601, Shringeri – A
        Holy Cross Road, I.C. Colony
        Borivali (W), Mumbai – 400103






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