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Re: National Youth Meet.

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  • arkitect95
    Dear Bholenath, Meher and Shabnam, Thank you very much for your direction to improve our programme. There will be only three persons from older generations
    Message 1 of 12 , Nov 10, 2005
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      Dear Bholenath, Meher and Shabnam,

      Thank you very much for your direction to improve our programme.
      There will be only three persons from older generations who will be
      speaking. Rest of the programme will be by youths. Most of the
      volunteers, members and office bearers of Ark Foundation are youth.
      The most active members like Sneha, Negi, Pallavi, Babita, Shikha,
      to name a few, are students of JNU. Right from the Chairperson to
      active members of Ark Foundation are youth. Ark is organization of
      youths. I think it will be injustice with the organizers to say that
      they are not giving space to youth. It will be youth everywhere
      except few exception. We believe there must be some link between old
      and new generations.

      We shall be grateful if your criticism is supported by some
      suggestions so that we can work on it. The very purpose of the e-
      forum is to excahnge ideas and experiences to learn from each other.
      We all are students and new in this field. Till yesterdays we were
      reading and learning in classrooms and now we are experimenting and
      learning in fields. The most important thing is that we are always
      open to learn new ideas to make our effort more result oriented.
      Please keep guiding us.

      We are always open for more comment, criticism and suggestion.
      Thanks
      Shaheen Ansari
      Programme Coordinator
      Ark Foundation

      --- In arkitectindia@yahoogroups.com, meher engineer
      <mengineer2003@y...> wrote:
      >
      > In plain speech, it is ridiculous. It also plays into the hands of
      the Orientalists of today by gifting them with the opportunity for a
      rant on the "changeless Orient".
      >
      > Do you remember another recent instance of the same kind of
      rubbish within Arkitectindia, contained in a response to an email
      from Sneha Singh (if I remember right), or someone similar, about
      the pitifully poor opportunities available to young, poor muslims
      living in New Delhi. That great elder of today, Md. Shabuddin did
      what India's elders have done for ages i.e., "opined" that only
      educated young Muslims should lead the poor Muslim masses. When will
      we learn?
      >
      > meher engineer
      >
      > Anhad Delhi <anhad_delhi@y...> wrote:
      > Its amazing that a 5 hour evening programme where 2000 young
      minds would only listen to 5 elders ( according to the programme
      below) can be called a National Youth Meet. It is high time that we
      stop preching the young generation and organsing prathana sabha's
      for them.
      >
      > It would do a lot of good to all elders and intellectuals/
      activists of the 50+ generation to listen to young voices.
      >
      > shabnam hashmi .
      >
      > Sneha Singh <sneharkitect@y...> wrote:
      >
      > Invitation to
      Participate in National Youth Meet
      >
      >
      In J.N.U., New Delhi
      >
      > Dear Friends,
      >
      >
      >
      > 2000 young men and women from more than 20 states of India will
      participate in the National Integration Youth Camp at Jawaharlal
      Nehru University (JNU), New Delhi on November 11, 2005. Prof. B.B.
      Bhattacharya, Vice-Chancellor of JNU, has agreed to grace the
      occasion as Chief Guest. Shri S. N. Subba Rao, Chairman, Indian
      Committee of Youth Organizations (ICYO) will commence the programme
      with Prarthana Sabha (Prayer Meeting).
      >
      >
      >
      > Programme Schedule:
      >
      >
      >
      > 5:00 PM
      >
      > Peace March from Administrative Block to Open Air Theatre, behind
      Kamal Complex, JNU.
      >
      >
      >
      > 6:00 PM
      >
      > Prarthana Sabha (Prayer Meeting)
      >
      >
      >
      > 6:10 PM
      >
      > Inaugural Address by Prof. B.B. Bhattacharya, Vice-Chancellor,
      JNU, New Delhi
      >
      >
      >
      > 6:20 PM
      >
      > Prof. V.K. Tripathi, President, Sadbhav Mission, IIT, New Delhi,
      will speak on role of youth on nation building.
      >
      >
      >
      > 6:30 PM
      >
      > Cultural Programme by youth from different states.
      >
      >
      >
      > 8:00 PM
      >
      > Vote of Thanks
      >
      >
      >
      > All are cordially invited to attend the National Youth Meet
      >
      >
      >
      > Date: November 11, 2005
      >
      >
      >
      > Time: 05-11-2005
      >
      >
      >
      > Venue: Open Air Theatre, Behind Kamal Complex, JNU, New Delhi.
      >
      >
      >
      > Regards,
      >
      > Sneha
      >
      >
      >
      > Sneha Singh
      > Secretary
      > Ark Foundation
      > www.arkindia.org.in
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arkitectindia/
      > Phone: +919868740449,9873078161, 9873078162
      >
      > ---------------------------------
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      > ---------------------------------
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      >
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    • Rahul Asthana
      Hi, First of all, let me share that reading about the program the name of Mr. S N SubbaRao caught my eye. He is known for conducting youth programmes since a
      Message 2 of 12 , Nov 10, 2005
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        Hi,
        First of all, let me share that reading about the
        program the name of Mr. S N SubbaRao caught my eye. He
        is known for conducting youth programmes since a long
        time.I attended one such program long time back in the
        eighties when I was 10 or 11 in Kanyakumari. It was a
        lovely experience to rub shoulders with youth from
        every part of the country and learning to greet them
        in their languages. Moreover, we were blessed with the
        presence of the great Baba Amte.He did not need to
        preach anything.Just the image of a man who cannot
        sit, but can only stand or lie down, yet walks around
        energetically for some task or other for the common
        good was inspiring beyond words. We had the good
        fortune to see him off on the start of the knit india
        movement. We too had the same irreverence of old age
        and resistance towards being preached;( I remember
        once we clapped before a speech was finished) but
        inspite of ourselves we had many positives to take
        home from that experience.
        I know, nostalgia and respect are too trite to have
        any practical value, but I sense a paranoia towards
        old age and experience which I cant see the reason
        for. If opinions of elders should not be accepted
        because of their age, they should not be rejected too
        because of their age.Mr Subbarao can probably teach
        us a thing or two about organizing youth camps.Why
        cant the youth be discerning enough to take the
        opinions at face value without worrying about the age?

        regards
        Rahul
        --- arkitect95 <arkitect95@...> wrote:

        > Dear Bholenath, Meher and Shabnam,
        >
        > Thank you very much for your direction to improve
        > our programme.
        > There will be only three persons from older
        > generations who will be
        > speaking. Rest of the programme will be by youths.
        > Most of the
        > volunteers, members and office bearers of Ark
        > Foundation are youth.
        > The most active members like Sneha, Negi, Pallavi,
        > Babita, Shikha,
        > to name a few, are students of JNU. Right from the
        > Chairperson to
        > active members of Ark Foundation are youth. Ark is
        > organization of
        > youths. I think it will be injustice with the
        > organizers to say that
        > they are not giving space to youth. It will be youth
        > everywhere
        > except few exception. We believe there must be some
        > link between old
        > and new generations.
        >
        > We shall be grateful if your criticism is supported
        > by some
        > suggestions so that we can work on it. The very
        > purpose of the e-
        > forum is to excahnge ideas and experiences to learn
        > from each other.
        > We all are students and new in this field. Till
        > yesterdays we were
        > reading and learning in classrooms and now we are
        > experimenting and
        > learning in fields. The most important thing is that
        > we are always
        > open to learn new ideas to make our effort more
        > result oriented.
        > Please keep guiding us.
        >
        > We are always open for more comment, criticism and
        > suggestion.
        > Thanks
        > Shaheen Ansari
        > Programme Coordinator
        > Ark Foundation
        >
        > --- In arkitectindia@yahoogroups.com, meher engineer
        >
        > <mengineer2003@y...> wrote:
        > >
        > > In plain speech, it is ridiculous. It also plays
        > into the hands of
        > the Orientalists of today by gifting them with the
        > opportunity for a
        > rant on the "changeless Orient".
        > >
        > > Do you remember another recent instance of the
        > same kind of
        > rubbish within Arkitectindia, contained in a
        > response to an email
        > from Sneha Singh (if I remember right), or someone
        > similar, about
        > the pitifully poor opportunities available to young,
        > poor muslims
        > living in New Delhi. That great elder of today, Md.
        > Shabuddin did
        > what India's elders have done for ages i.e.,
        > "opined" that only
        > educated young Muslims should lead the poor Muslim
        > masses. When will
        > we learn?
        > >
        > > meher engineer
        > >
        > > Anhad Delhi <anhad_delhi@y...> wrote:
        > > Its amazing that a 5 hour evening programme where
        > 2000 young
        > minds would only listen to 5 elders ( according to
        > the programme
        > below) can be called a National Youth Meet. It is
        > high time that we
        > stop preching the young generation and organsing
        > prathana sabha's
        > for them.
        > >
        > > It would do a lot of good to all elders and
        > intellectuals/
        > activists of the 50+ generation to listen to young
        > voices.
        > >
        > > shabnam hashmi .
        > >
        > > Sneha Singh <sneharkitect@y...> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > Invitation to
        > Participate in National Youth Meet
        > >
        > >
        >
        > In J.N.U., New Delhi
        > >
        > > Dear Friends,
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > 2000 young men and women from more than 20 states
        > of India will
        > participate in the National Integration Youth Camp
        > at Jawaharlal
        > Nehru University (JNU), New Delhi on November 11,
        > 2005. Prof. B.B.
        > Bhattacharya, Vice-Chancellor of JNU, has agreed to
        > grace the
        > occasion as Chief Guest. Shri S. N. Subba Rao,
        > Chairman, Indian
        > Committee of Youth Organizations (ICYO) will
        > commence the programme
        > with Prarthana Sabha (Prayer Meeting).
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Programme Schedule:
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > 5:00 PM
        > >
        > > Peace March from Administrative Block to Open Air
        > Theatre, behind
        > Kamal Complex, JNU.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > 6:00 PM
        > >
        > > Prarthana Sabha (Prayer Meeting)
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > 6:10 PM
        > >
        > > Inaugural Address by Prof. B.B. Bhattacharya,
        > Vice-Chancellor,
        > JNU, New Delhi
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > 6:20 PM
        > >
        > > Prof. V.K. Tripathi, President, Sadbhav Mission,
        > IIT, New Delhi,
        > will speak on role of youth on nation building.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > 6:30 PM
        > >
        > > Cultural Programme by youth from different states.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > 8:00 PM
        > >
        > > Vote of Thanks
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > All are cordially invited to attend the National
        > Youth Meet
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Date: November 11, 2005
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Time: 05-11-2005
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Venue: Open Air Theatre, Behind Kamal Complex,
        > JNU, New Delhi.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Regards,
        > >
        > > Sneha
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Sneha Singh
        > > Secretary
        > > Ark Foundation
        > > www.arkindia.org.in
        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arkitectindia/
        > > Phone: +919868740449,9873078161, 9873078162
        > >
        > > ---------------------------------
        >
        === message truncated ===





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      • meher engineer
        Dear Shaheen and other Arkitects, Thank you very much for taking the tiem to explain how your group works in more detail. I accept what you say. But I did not
        Message 3 of 12 , Nov 11, 2005
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          Dear Shaheen and other Arkitects,
           
          Thank you very much for taking the tiem to explain how your group works in more detail. I accept what you say. But I did not give any "directions" earlier and am not going to do so now, inspite of your request. I would direct a young child to stop crossing a busy city street on his own. It would be interefering with his freedom - which is what authority is all about, isn't it ? - but the interference could be justified, I think. 
           
          Children accept clear bounds set by their elders on their own. I don't know why they do but they do. But you guys are doing many things every day, either on your own or together. The forthcoming event is just one more such thing. Its your act. That's as it should be. Who ever learns anything about the world except by acting on it? 

           

          No authority, in the patriarchal family, between siblings, in a gang, in gender relations, at work, within the political party, the religion, the state etc. is self-justifying, so all can be questioned. Which is good, no?, for the accepting child trying to grow into an autonomous individual redy to accept responsibility for his own acts? 

           

          With best wishes,

           

          meher engineer 

           

          arkitect95 <arkitect95@...> wrote:
          Dear Bholenath, Meher  and Shabnam,

          Thank you very much for your direction to improve our programme.
          There will be only three persons from older generations who will be
          speaking. Rest of the programme will be by youths. Most of the 
          volunteers, members and office bearers of Ark Foundation are youth.
          The most active members like Sneha, Negi, Pallavi, Babita, Shikha,
          to name a few, are students of JNU. Right from the Chairperson to
          active members  of Ark Foundation are youth. Ark is organization of
          youths. I think it will be injustice with the organizers to say that
          they are not giving space to youth. It will be youth everywhere
          except few exception. We believe there must be some link between old
          and new generations.

          We shall be grateful if your criticism is supported by some
          suggestions so that we can work on it. The very purpose of the e-
          forum is to excahnge ideas and experiences to learn from each other.
          We all are students and new in this field. Till yesterdays we were
          reading and learning in classrooms and now we are experimenting and
          learning in fields. The most important thing is that we are always
          open to learn new ideas to make our effort more result oriented. 
          Please keep guiding us.

          We are always open for more comment, criticism and suggestion.
          Thanks
          Shaheen Ansari
          Programme Coordinator
          Ark Foundation

          --- In arkitectindia@yahoogroups.com, meher engineer
          <mengineer2003@y...> wrote:
          >
          > In plain speech, it is ridiculous. It also plays into the hands of
          the Orientalists of today by gifting them with the opportunity for a
          rant on the "changeless Orient".

          > Do you remember another recent instance of the same kind of
          rubbish within Arkitectindia,  contained in a response to an email
          from Sneha Singh (if I remember right), or someone similar, about
          the pitifully poor opportunities available to young, poor muslims
          living in New Delhi. That great elder of today, Md. Shabuddin did
          what India's elders have done for ages i.e., "opined" that only
          educated young Muslims should lead the poor Muslim masses. When will
          we learn?

          > meher engineer   
          >
          > Anhad Delhi <anhad_delhi@y...> wrote:
          > Its amazing that a 5 hour  evening programme where  2000 young
          minds would only listen to 5 elders ( according to the programme
          below) can be called a National Youth Meet. It is high time that we
          stop preching the young generation and organsing prathana sabha's
          for them.

          > It would do a lot of good to all elders and intellectuals/
          activists of the 50+ generation to  listen to young voices.

          > shabnam hashmi .
          >
          > Sneha Singh <sneharkitect@y...> wrote:
          >
          >                                             Invitation to
          Participate in National Youth Meet
          >
          >                                                                   
                In J.N.U., New Delhi
          >
          > Dear Friends,
          >

          >
          > 2000 young men and women from more than 20 states of India will
          participate in the National Integration Youth Camp at Jawaharlal
          Nehru University (JNU), New Delhi on November 11, 2005. Prof. B.B.
          Bhattacharya, Vice-Chancellor of JNU, has agreed to grace the
          occasion as Chief Guest. Shri S. N. Subba Rao, Chairman, Indian
          Committee of Youth Organizations (ICYO) will commence the programme
          with Prarthana Sabha (Prayer Meeting).
          >

          >
          > Programme Schedule:
          >

          >
          > 5:00 PM
          >
          > Peace March from Administrative Block to Open Air Theatre, behind
          Kamal Complex, JNU.
          >

          >
          > 6:00 PM
          >
          > Prarthana Sabha (Prayer Meeting)
          >

          >
          > 6:10 PM
          >
          > Inaugural Address by Prof. B.B. Bhattacharya, Vice-Chancellor,
          JNU, New Delhi
          >

          >
          > 6:20 PM
          >
          > Prof. V.K. Tripathi, President, Sadbhav Mission, IIT, New Delhi,
          will speak on role of youth on nation building.
          >

          >
          > 6:30 PM
          >
          > Cultural Programme by youth from different states.
          >

          >
          > 8:00 PM
          >
          > Vote of Thanks
          >

          >
          > All are cordially invited to attend the National Youth Meet
          >

          >
          > Date:    November 11, 2005
          >

          >
          > Time:    05-11-2005
          >

          >
          > Venue:  Open Air Theatre, Behind Kamal Complex, JNU, New Delhi.
          >

          >
          > Regards,
          >
          > Sneha
          >
          >
          >
          > Sneha Singh
          > Secretary
          > Ark Foundation
          > www.arkindia.org.in
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arkitectindia/
          > Phone: +919868740449,9873078161, 9873078162
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all
          new Yahoo! Security Centre.
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > Enjoy this Diwali with Y! India Click here
          >
          > ---------------------------------
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          >
          >     Visit your group "arkitectindia" on the web.
          >  
          >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          >  arkitectindia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >  
          >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          Service.
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >            
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        • bholenath_vishwakarma@ril.com
          dear all who live in delhi please read this. and if you want to know the charade under which world bank has taken over water issue of the poor countries like
          Message 4 of 12 , Nov 11, 2005
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            dear all who live in delhi please read this.
            and if you want to know the charade under which world bank has taken over water issue of the poor countries like africa and stupid country like india........u better read Aundhati Roy's "Algebra of Infinite Justice"
            regards
            bholenath
            -------------------------------------------------

            Editorial: I really have no problem with the World Bank

            -------------------------------------------------

            I write this because of the continued ineptness of its policies. It
            makes us lose time and direction again and again. Just look at the
            latest so-called water privatisation programme of the Bank and the
            Delhi government.

            It is a 24x7 water distribution scheme. Parts of the city will be
            hived off to private contractors, who will ensure water supplied by
            public utility Delhi Jal Board (DJB) is distributed to homes 24x7. The
            contractor will be paid for these services, will collect water bills
            and bring "efficiency" to the system. That is, the contractor will
            reduce distribution losses -- currently between 40 - 50 per cent of
            all water supplied. The plan was developed by the World Bank and its
            consultants for the Delhi government, which has been struggling to
            reform DJB. The reasoning is impeccable: supply constant water so that
            pressure in the pipes will reduce leakage from sewage pipes and, in
            turn, contamination of household water supply.

            All was well until an intrepid non-government group, Parivartan, got
            its hands on the contracts of the deal. It cried foul, finding huge
            monies were paid to Bank consultants and even fatter contracts were on
            the cards with multinational water distribution companies. If signed,
            Parivartan alleged, the contracts would deny water to slums, for there
            would be no more free water. The bottomline it said: water tariffs
            were set to increase 6 times as a result of these contracts.

            The campaign has hit home: resident welfare organisations, political
            parities of all hues, have joined the resistance against the World
            Bank-private takeover of the city's water supply. The city government
            is diving for cover; it is said the plan is 'temporarily' shelved. The
            Bank, it is said, is committed to an idea it has tried out in other
            poor cities of the world. Unsuccessfully. But persistence, clearly, is
            the name of the game.

            The fact is the plan is not worth the time being spent on it -- on
            proposing it or on opposing it. It is not designed to even work.

            Let us understand it better. First: how much water is needed? The
            consultant's report makes this mess evident. In one water distribution
            zone, the DJB estimated the consumption was 139 million litres daily
            (mld). Then supply was measured, and found to be 223 mld, a huge
            difference of over 100 million litres of water a day. Unable to
            explain this, the consultant simply advises the Bank/government
            combine to neglect the difference and go by DJB figures. In other
            words, as expected, little is known of the water situation in this
            zone.

            The outcome is that little is also known of the current demand (based
            on water received once a day or even lesser) as compared to what it
            will be when water is supplied 24x7. The consultant's monitoring
            estimates say it should be 189 litres per capita daily (lpcd). But in
            the project's calculations, water demand is estimated by taking into
            account a much lesser quantum of daily consumption - 130 lpcd for just
            13 per cent of the rich and 30 lpcd for 32 per cent of the poor. The
            result is that total demand for this zone is predicted to be just 66
            lpcd, or 48 mld. This is jugglery. The purpose: project proponents can
            say there is a water surplus in the area and so their scheme is
            viable.

            The fact is water is scarce and little has been done to change that.
            There is absolutely no estimation of how much additional water will be
            needed if the scheme does indeed supply water for 24 hours. The
            workplan simply is that the private company will reduce the 50 per
            cent distribution losses, and that this recovered water will make good
            the difference.

            But again, there is no understanding of what these "losses" are.
            Surely 50 per cent of Delhi's water supply is not being siphoned off
            by thieves? From what little is known, it seems water losses are about
            leakages from underground connections -- water supply points. Which
            company, however efficient, will be able to retrofit all the
            underground connections?

            Then there is the tariff question. It is estimated it costs the
            government Rs 8-9 to supply 1,000 litres of water; for this, it
            charges roughly Rs 2. Nobody knows what collection and disposal of
            sewage costs, but it is estimated it is normally five times higher
            than water distribution costs. The new scheme reproduces these two
            travesties. The government will be in charge of water tariffs, which
            it promises not to raise even if households use much more water. Also,
            the scheme does not include the collection of sewage. In other words,
            more water will be supplied, which will not be paid for. More sewage
            will be generated, which will not be paid for. A public water utility
            that is inefficient also because it does not get paid will become even
            more burdened, poorer.

            In sum, this is nothing but selective subsidisation, for the richer
            people of the city, in which the distributor will collect a little
            from those who can pay. This is not privatisation. This is certainly
            not reform.

            Currently, people whom water reaches use it 24x7, because they store
            it in tanks and can afford household devices to clean it. The real
            issue is to ensure supply to all, on an equitable basis. Meter the
            richer people, recover fuller costs from them and reform the sewage
            system.

            This is the reform agenda this poorly conceived programme will
            jeopardise. As opinions sharply polarise -- between those who support
            water 'reform' (read privatisation and the World Bank) and those who
            want state control to continue -- crucial time will be lost. An
            opportunity for serious change will be missed.

            Maybe the World Bank should be transformed into a debating society.
            That would be less wasteful: of their ideas and our time.

            -- Sunita Narain
            < editor@... >

          • Anhad
            thanks Shaheen, i hp the event went off well. I agree with you. Shd have found out more from you before shooting off the e-mail. sorry for that. I think it is
            Message 5 of 12 , Nov 11, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              thanks Shaheen,
               
              i hp the event went off well. I agree with you. Shd have found out more from you before shooting off the e-mail. sorry for that. I think it is sometimes the desparation that some of us feel of not being able to do enough. In the last 15 years I have seen the deterioration in the general discourse. We dreamt of making a society where everyone will be equal, now it seems that even the goal of saving democracy in the country is difficult. The onslaught of most retrogressive ideas, prejudices, superstitions and ofcouse the fascist ideology seem to be overtaking everything logical and rational. I feel we have failed miserably somewhere and perhaps only the youth can turn the tide.
               
              in solidarity
              shabnam
               

              arkitect95 <arkitect95@...> wrote:
              Dear Bholenath, Meher and Shabnam,

              Thank you very much for your direction to improve our programme.
              There will be only three persons from older generations who will be
              speaking. Rest of the programme will be by youths. Most of the
              volunteers, members and office bearers of Ark Foundation are youth.
              The most active members like Sneha, Negi, Pallavi, Babita, Shikha,
              to name a few, are students of JNU. Right from the Chairperson to
              active members of Ark Foundation are youth. Ark is organization of
              youths. I think it will be injustice with the organizers to say that
              they are not giving space to youth. It will be youth everywhere
              except few exception. We believe there must be some link between old
              and new generations.

              We shall be grateful if your criticism is supported by some
              suggestions so that we can work on it. The very purpose of the e-
              forum is to excahnge ideas and experiences to learn from each other.
              We all are students and new in this field. Till yesterdays we were
              reading and learning in classrooms and now we are experimenting and
              learning in fields. The most important thing is that we are always
              open to learn new ideas to make our effort more result oriented.
              Please keep guiding us.

              We are always open for more comment, criticism and suggestion.
              Thanks
              Shaheen Ansari
              Programme Coordinator
              Ark Foundation

              --- In arkitectindia@yahoogroups.com, meher engineer
              wrote:
              >
              > In plain speech, it is ridiculous. It also plays into the hands of
              the Orientalists of today by gifting them with the opportunity for a
              rant on the "changeless Orient".
              >
              > Do you remember another recent instance of the same kind of
              rubbish within Arkitectindia, contained in a response to an email
              from Sneha Singh (if I remember right), or someone similar, about
              the pitifully poor opportunities available to young, poor muslims
              living in New Delhi. That great elder of today, Md. Shabuddin did
              what India's elders have done for ages i.e., "opined" that only
              educated young Muslims should lead the poor Muslim masses. When will
              we learn?
              >
              > meher engineer
              >
              > Anhad Delhi wrote:
              > Its amazing that a 5 hour evening programme where 2000 young
              minds would only listen to 5 elders ( according to the programme
              below) can be called a National Youth Meet. It is high time that we
              stop preching the young generation and organsing prathana sabha's
              for them.
              >
              > It would do a lot of good to all elders and intellectuals/
              activists of the 50+ generation to listen to young voices.
              >
              > shabnam hashmi .
              >
              > Sneha Singh wrote:
              >
              > Invitation to
              Participate in National Youth Meet
              >
              >
              In J.N.U., New Delhi
              >
              > Dear Friends,
              >
              >
              >
              > 2000 young men and women from more than 20 states of India will
              participate in the National Integration Youth Camp at Jawaharlal
              Nehru University (JNU), New Delhi on November 11, 2005. Prof. B.B.
              Bhattacharya, Vice-Chancellor of JNU, has agreed to grace the
              occasion as Chief Guest. Shri S. N. Subba Rao, Chairman, Indian
              Committee of Youth Organizations (ICYO) will commence the programme
              with Prarthana Sabha (Prayer Meeting).
              >
              >
              >
              > Programme Schedule:
              >
              >
              >
              > 5:00 PM
              >
              > Peace March from Administrative Block to Open Air Theatre, behind
              Kamal Complex, JNU.
              >
              >
              >
              > 6:00 PM
              >
              > Prarthana Sabha (Prayer Meeting)
              >
              >
              >
              > 6:10 PM
              >
              > Inaugural Address by Prof. B.B. Bhattacharya, Vice-Chancellor,
              JNU, New Delhi
              >
              >
              >
              > 6:20 PM
              >
              > Prof. V.K. Tripathi, President, Sadbhav Mission, IIT, New Delhi,
              will speak on role of youth on nation building.
              >
              >
              >
              > 6:30 PM
              >
              > Cultural Programme by youth from different states.
              >
              >
              >
              > 8:00 PM
              >
              > Vote of Thanks
              >
              >
              >
              > All are cordially invited to attend the National Youth Meet
              >
              >
              >
              > Date: November 11, 2005
              >
              >
              >
              > Time: 05-11-2005
              >
              >
              >
              > Venue: Open Air Theatre, Behind Kamal Complex, JNU, New Delhi.
              >
              >
              >
              > Regards,
              >
              > Sneha
              >
              >
              >
              > Sneha Singh
              > Secretary
              > Ark Foundation
              > www.arkindia.org.in
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arkitectindia/
              > Phone: +919868740449,9873078161, 9873078162
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all
              new Yahoo! Security Centre.
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > Enjoy this Diwali with Y! India Click here
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
              >
              >
              > Visit your group "arkitectindia" on the web.
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > arkitectindia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              Service.
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
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              "Man's dearest possession is life. It is given to him but once, and he must live it so as to feel no torturing regrets for wasted years, never know the burning shame of a mean and petty past; so live that, dying he might say: all my life, all my strength were given to the finest cause in all the world- the fight for the Liberation of Mankind."

              Nikolai Ostrovsky


              Enjoy this Diwali with Y! India Click here

            • Aamir Riaz
              shabnam ji, i agree with u. last month i was in District ketch(turbat) baluchistan where one of son of great baloch nationalist leader and general secratery of
              Message 6 of 12 , Nov 14, 2005
              • 0 Attachment

                shabnam ji, i agree with u. last month i was in District ketch(turbat) baluchistan where one of son of great baloch nationalist leader and general secratery of mass political party of balochs National Party Mir hasal bazenjo told me that i think people like us r redundent now.

                am editor of an left libral urdu magaziene awami jamhori forum in lahore. i interviewed numerous people including urself , burdan, surjeet and pakistani leftists. i must say that left in perticular or u can include right as well in it, failed to deliver. bottomless political workers and oppertunists have sucess stories in both sides. in pakistan, as state was islami, so religious parties(even those who were against partion of india and M.A.jinnah) have ample state to play with it while left have not any real uptodte thesis about their own society. in india, as state was secular , communists or progressives have ample state to play with while right in india failed to give alternative. so now youth is on crossroads. neither green nor red. for me, every one wants to play with youth and poverty but not ready to address the issue.

                aamir riaz

                lahore




                aamir riaz

                E 3/8 ST#6 CAVALERY GROUNDS LAHORE

                CANTT TEL 042-6662196 CELL 0333-4226323


                From: Anhad <ANHADINFO@...>
                Reply-To: arkitectindia@yahoogroups.com
                To: arkitectindia@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [arkitectindia] Re: National Youth Meet.
                Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 04:50:01 +0000 (GMT)

                thanks Shaheen,
                 
                i hp the event went off well. I agree with you. Shd have found out more from you before shooting off the e-mail. sorry for that. I think it is sometimes the desparation that some of us feel of not being able to do enough. In the last 15 years I have seen the deterioration in the general discourse. We dreamt of making a society where everyone will be equal, now it seems that even the goal of saving democracy in the country is difficult. The onslaught of most retrogressive ideas, prejudices, superstitions and ofcouse the fascist ideology seem to be overtaking everything logical and rational. I feel we have failed miserably somewhere and perhaps only the youth can turn the tide.
                 
                in solidarity
                shabnam
                 

                arkitect95 <arkitect95@...> wrote:
                Dear Bholenath, Meher and Shabnam,

                Thank you very much for your direction to improve our programme.
                There will be only three persons from older generations who will be
                speaking. Rest of the programme will be by youths. Most of the
                volunteers, members and office bearers of Ark Foundation are youth.
                The most active members like Sneha, Negi, Pallavi, Babita, Shikha,
                to name a few, are students of JNU. Right from the Chairperson to
                active members of Ark Foundation are youth. Ark is organization of
                youths. I think it will be injustice with the organizers to say that
                they are not giving space to youth. It will be youth everywhere
                except few exception. We believe there must be some link between old
                and new generations.

                We shall be grateful if your criticism is supported by some
                suggestions so that we can work on it. The very purpose of the e-
                forum is to excahnge ideas and experiences to learn from each other.
                We all are students and new in this field. Till yesterdays we were
                reading and learning in classrooms and now we are experimenting and
                learning in fields. The most important thing is that we are always
                open to learn new ideas to make our effort more result oriented.
                Please keep guiding us.

                We are always open for more comment, criticism and suggestion.
                Thanks
                Shaheen Ansari
                Programme Coordinator
                Ark Foundation

                --- In arkitectindia@yahoogroups.com, meher engineer
                wrote:
                >
                > In plain speech, it is ridiculous. It also plays into the hands of
                the Orientalists of today by gifting them with the opportunity for a
                rant on the "changeless Orient".
                >
                > Do you remember another recent instance of the same kind of
                rubbish within Arkitectindia, contained in a response to an email
                from Sneha Singh (if I remember right), or someone similar, about
                the pitifully poor opportunities available to young, poor muslims
                living in New Delhi. That great elder of today, Md. Shabuddin did
                what India's elders have done for ages i.e., "opined" that only
                educated young Muslims should lead the poor Muslim masses. When will
                we learn?
                >
                > meher engineer
                >
                > Anhad Delhi wrote:
                > Its amazing that a 5 hour evening programme where 2000 young
                minds would only listen to 5 elders ( according to the programme
                below) can be called a National Youth Meet. It is high time that we
                stop preching the young generation and organsing prathana sabha's
                for them.
                >
                > It would do a lot of good to all elders and intellectuals/
                activists of the 50+ generation to listen to young voices.
                >
                > shabnam hashmi .
                >
                > Sneha Singh wrote:
                >
                > Invitation to
                Participate in National Youth Meet
                >
                >
                In J.N.U., New Delhi
                >
                > Dear Friends,
                >
                >
                >
                > 2000 young men and women from more than 20 states of India will
                participate in the National Integration Youth Camp at Jawaharlal
                Nehru University (JNU), New Delhi on November 11, 2005. Prof. B.B.
                Bhattacharya, Vice-Chancellor of JNU, has agreed to grace the
                occasion as Chief Guest. Shri S. N. Subba Rao, Chairman, Indian
                Committee of Youth Organizations (ICYO) will commence the programme
                with Prarthana Sabha (Prayer Meeting).
                >
                >
                >
                > Programme Schedule:
                >
                >
                >
                > 5:00 PM
                >
                > Peace March from Administrative Block to Open Air Theatre, behind
                Kamal Complex, JNU.
                >
                >
                >
                > 6:00 PM
                >
                > Prarthana Sabha (Prayer Meeting)
                >
                >
                >
                > 6:10 PM
                >
                > Inaugural Address by Prof. B.B. Bhattacharya, Vice-Chancellor,
                JNU, New Delhi
                >
                >
                >
                > 6:20 PM
                >
                > Prof. V.K. Tripathi, President, Sadbhav Mission, IIT, New Delhi,
                will speak on role of youth on nation building.
                >
                >
                >
                > 6:30 PM
                >
                > Cultural Programme by youth from different states.
                >
                >
                >
                > 8:00 PM
                >
                > Vote of Thanks
                >
                >
                >
                > All are cordially invited to attend the National Youth Meet
                >
                >
                >
                > Date: November 11, 2005
                >
                >
                >
                > Time: 05-11-2005
                >
                >
                >
                > Venue: Open Air Theatre, Behind Kamal Complex, JNU, New Delhi.
                >
                >
                >
                > Regards,
                >
                > Sneha
                >
                >
                >
                > Sneha Singh
                > Secretary
                > Ark Foundation
                > www.arkindia.org.in
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arkitectindia/
                > Phone: +919868740449,9873078161, 9873078162
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all
                new Yahoo! Security Centre.
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > Enjoy this Diwali with Y! India Click here
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                >
                >
                > Visit your group "arkitectindia" on the web.
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > arkitectindia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                Service.
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
                >









                ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
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                --------------------------------------------------------------------~->


                Yahoo! Groups Links

                <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                arkitectindia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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                http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/






                "Man's dearest possession is life. It is given to him but once, and he must live it so as to feel no torturing regrets for wasted years, never know the burning shame of a mean and petty past; so live that, dying he might say: all my life, all my strength were given to the finest cause in all the world- the fight for the Liberation of Mankind."

                Nikolai Ostrovsky


                Enjoy this Diwali with Y! India Click here

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              • Sankrant Sanu
                Dear Shabnam, Please consider whether the answer lies in youth or in young ideas. If the new generation remains stuck with the same ideas that the previous one
                Message 7 of 12 , Nov 15, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  Dear Shabnam,
                   
                  Please consider whether the answer lies in youth or in young ideas. If the new generation remains stuck with the same ideas that the previous one was obsessed with then perhaps the results will also be the same, irrespective of age. Instead we need fresh thinking.
                   
                  You say you dream of making a society where everyone is equal and you long for logic and rationality. From where did we get these particular ideas and why do we think they will solve anything? Hitler was perfectly logical and rational in thinking his "final solution", so were Stalin and Mao when they sent millions to their death. No doubt American extermination of the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was eminently rational as were the World Wars of post-"enlightenment" Europe. Perhaps there is something else besides logic and reason that need to come into play -- we may even need to turn to a touch of retrogressive Indian enlightenment from the Buddha.
                   
                  Finally, that great principle of equality -- "all men are created equal" (even setting aside the fact that when it was enunciated in America "all men" really only meant All White Protestant males) -- is itself profoundly irrational. It can only be justified as a religious idea not as a scientific observation of reality. If reality is not so, then the idea that it must be made so is also a religious idea -- and a pursuit of that religious normative ideal has consistently led to violence.
                   
                  It is worth asking whether the "dreams" have come to nought because they are inherently contradictary -- just like liberty, equality and fraternity are -- at least as they have been imagined.
                   
                  To be very clear, when I question these ideas, I am not advocating their opposite either -- that lack of equality or liberty (or some imagined "caste system") etc is the answer. What I am saying is that we need to question the deeply held assumptions behind the principles we espouse and clarify our own prejudices, contradictions and pre-conceived, often pre-packaged, ideas. And then meditate on fresh possibilities, stepping away from the received wisdom that we repeat ad nauseum. Some superstitious yoga-asana or pranayama may even help. The young are doing it.
                   
                  Warm Regards, Sankrant.
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Anhad
                  Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 8:50 PM
                  Subject: Re: [arkitectindia] Re: National Youth Meet.

                  thanks Shaheen,
                   
                  i hp the event went off well. I agree with you. Shd have found out more from you before shooting off the e-mail. sorry for that. I think it is sometimes the desparation that some of us feel of not being able to do enough. In the last 15 years I have seen the deterioration in the general discourse. We dreamt of making a society where everyone will be equal, now it seems that even the goal of saving democracy in the country is difficult. The onslaught of most retrogressive ideas, prejudices, superstitions and ofcouse the fascist ideology seem to be overtaking everything logical and rational. I feel we have failed miserably somewhere and perhaps only the youth can turn the tide.
                   
                  in solidarity
                  shabnam
                   
                • david soori
                  Dear Friends, As long as money is created out of NOTHING as an exponential interest bearing debt, we all remain slaves, perhaps minus the neckless and angle
                  Message 8 of 12 , Nov 15, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Dear Friends,
                    As long as money is created out of NOTHING as an exponential interest bearing debt, we all remain slaves, perhaps minus the neckless and angle iron but an albotross around our neck from inseption until death.
                    ''If you want to remain slaves and pay the cost of your own slavery, let the banks create the money''
                    Until this creation is restored to an elected government we all remain slaves.
                    david soori

                    Sankrant Sanu <Sankrant@...> wrote:
                    Dear Shabnam,
                     
                    Please consider whether the answer lies in youth or in young ideas. If the new generation remains stuck with the same ideas that the previous one was obsessed with then perhaps the results will also be the same, irrespective of age. Instead we need fresh thinking.
                     
                    You say you dream of making a society where everyone is equal and you long for logic and rationality. From where did we get these particular ideas and why do we think they will solve anything? Hitler was perfectly logical and rational in thinking his "final solution", so were Stalin and Mao when they sent millions to their death. No doubt American extermination of the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was eminently rational as were the World Wars of post-"enlightenment" Europe. Perhaps there is something else besides logic and reason that need to come into play -- we may even need to turn to a touch of retrogressive Indian enlightenment from the Buddha.
                     
                    Finally, that great principle of equality -- "all men are created equal" (even setting aside the fact that when it was enunciated in America "all men" really only meant All White Protestant males) -- is itself profoundly irrational. It can only be justified as a religious idea not as a scientific observation of reality. If reality is not so, then the idea that it must be made so is also a religious idea -- and a pursuit of that religious normative ideal has consistently led to violence.
                     
                    It is worth asking whether the "dreams" have come to nought because they are inherently contradictary -- just like liberty, equality and fraternity are -- at least as they have been imagined.
                     
                    To be very clear, when I question these ideas, I am not advocating their opposite either -- that lack of equality or liberty (or some imagined "caste system") etc is the answer. What I am saying is that we need to question the deeply held assumptions behind the principles we espouse and clarify our own prejudices, contradictions and pre-conceived, often pre-packaged, ideas. And then meditate on fresh possibilities, stepping away from the received wisdom that we repeat ad nauseum. Some superstitious yoga-asana or pranayama may even help. The young are doing it.
                     
                    Warm Regards, Sankrant.
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Anhad
                    Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 8:50 PM
                    Subject: Re: [arkitectindia] Re: National Youth Meet.

                    thanks Shaheen,
                     
                    i hp the event went off well. I agree with you. Shd have found out more from you before shooting off the e-mail. sorry for that. I think it is sometimes the desparation that some of us feel of not being able to do enough. In the last 15 years I have seen the deterioration in the general discourse. We dreamt of making a society where everyone will be equal, now it seems that even the goal of saving democracy in the country is difficult. The onslaught of most retrogressive ideas, prejudices, superstitions and ofcouse the fascist ideology seem to be overtaking everything logical and rational. I feel we have failed miserably somewhere and perhaps only the youth can turn the tide.
                     
                    in solidarity
                    shabnam
                     


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