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Re: [arkitectindia] National Youth Meet.

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  • meher engineer
    In plain speech, it is ridiculous. It also plays into the hands of the Orientalists of today by gifting them with the opportunity for a rant on the changeless
    Message 1 of 12 , Nov 9, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      In plain speech, it is ridiculous. It also plays into the hands of the Orientalists of today by gifting them with the opportunity for a rant on the "changeless Orient". 
       
      Do you remember another recent instance of the same kind of rubbish within Arkitectindia,  contained in a response to an email from Sneha Singh (if I remember right), or someone similar, about the pitifully poor opportunities available to young, poor muslims living in New Delhi. That great elder of today, Md. Shabuddin did what India's elders have done for ages i.e., "opined" that only educated young Muslims should lead the poor Muslim masses. When will we learn?
       
      meher engineer    

      Anhad Delhi <anhad_delhi@...> wrote:
      Its amazing that a 5 hour  evening programme where  2000 young minds would only listen to 5 elders ( according to the programme below) can be called a National Youth Meet. It is high time that we stop preching the young generation and organsing prathana sabha's for them.
       
      It would do a lot of good to all elders and intellectuals/ activists of the 50+ generation to  listen to young voices.
       
      shabnam hashmi .

      Sneha Singh <sneharkitect@...> wrote:

                                                  Invitation to Participate in National Youth Meet

                                                                               In J.N.U., New Delhi

      Dear Friends,

       

      2000 young men and women from more than 20 states of India will participate in the National Integration Youth Camp at Jawaharlal Nehru University (JNU), New Delhi on November 11, 2005. Prof. B.B. Bhattacharya, Vice-Chancellor of JNU, has agreed to grace the occasion as Chief Guest. Shri S. N. Subba Rao, Chairman, Indian Committee of Youth Organizations (ICYO) will commence the programme with Prarthana Sabha (Prayer Meeting).

       

      Programme Schedule:

       

      5:00 PM

      Peace March from Administrative Block to Open Air Theatre, behind Kamal Complex, JNU.

       

      6:00 PM

      Prarthana Sabha (Prayer Meeting)

       

      6:10 PM

      Inaugural Address by Prof. B.B. Bhattacharya, Vice-Chancellor, JNU, New Delhi

       

      6:20 PM

      Prof. V.K. Tripathi, President, Sadbhav Mission, IIT, New Delhi, will speak on role of youth on nation building.

       

      6:30 PM

      Cultural Programme by youth from different states.

       

      8:00 PM

      Vote of Thanks

       

      All are cordially invited to attend the National Youth Meet

       

      Date:    November 11, 2005

       

      Time:    05-11-2005

       

      Venue:  Open Air Theatre, Behind Kamal Complex, JNU, New Delhi.

       

      Regards,

      Sneha



      Sneha Singh
      Secretary
      Ark Foundation
      www.arkindia.org.in
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arkitectindia/
      Phone: +919868740449,9873078161, 9873078162


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    • arkitect95
      Dear Bholenath, Meher and Shabnam, Thank you very much for your direction to improve our programme. There will be only three persons from older generations
      Message 2 of 12 , Nov 10, 2005
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        Dear Bholenath, Meher and Shabnam,

        Thank you very much for your direction to improve our programme.
        There will be only three persons from older generations who will be
        speaking. Rest of the programme will be by youths. Most of the
        volunteers, members and office bearers of Ark Foundation are youth.
        The most active members like Sneha, Negi, Pallavi, Babita, Shikha,
        to name a few, are students of JNU. Right from the Chairperson to
        active members of Ark Foundation are youth. Ark is organization of
        youths. I think it will be injustice with the organizers to say that
        they are not giving space to youth. It will be youth everywhere
        except few exception. We believe there must be some link between old
        and new generations.

        We shall be grateful if your criticism is supported by some
        suggestions so that we can work on it. The very purpose of the e-
        forum is to excahnge ideas and experiences to learn from each other.
        We all are students and new in this field. Till yesterdays we were
        reading and learning in classrooms and now we are experimenting and
        learning in fields. The most important thing is that we are always
        open to learn new ideas to make our effort more result oriented.
        Please keep guiding us.

        We are always open for more comment, criticism and suggestion.
        Thanks
        Shaheen Ansari
        Programme Coordinator
        Ark Foundation

        --- In arkitectindia@yahoogroups.com, meher engineer
        <mengineer2003@y...> wrote:
        >
        > In plain speech, it is ridiculous. It also plays into the hands of
        the Orientalists of today by gifting them with the opportunity for a
        rant on the "changeless Orient".
        >
        > Do you remember another recent instance of the same kind of
        rubbish within Arkitectindia, contained in a response to an email
        from Sneha Singh (if I remember right), or someone similar, about
        the pitifully poor opportunities available to young, poor muslims
        living in New Delhi. That great elder of today, Md. Shabuddin did
        what India's elders have done for ages i.e., "opined" that only
        educated young Muslims should lead the poor Muslim masses. When will
        we learn?
        >
        > meher engineer
        >
        > Anhad Delhi <anhad_delhi@y...> wrote:
        > Its amazing that a 5 hour evening programme where 2000 young
        minds would only listen to 5 elders ( according to the programme
        below) can be called a National Youth Meet. It is high time that we
        stop preching the young generation and organsing prathana sabha's
        for them.
        >
        > It would do a lot of good to all elders and intellectuals/
        activists of the 50+ generation to listen to young voices.
        >
        > shabnam hashmi .
        >
        > Sneha Singh <sneharkitect@y...> wrote:
        >
        > Invitation to
        Participate in National Youth Meet
        >
        >
        In J.N.U., New Delhi
        >
        > Dear Friends,
        >
        >
        >
        > 2000 young men and women from more than 20 states of India will
        participate in the National Integration Youth Camp at Jawaharlal
        Nehru University (JNU), New Delhi on November 11, 2005. Prof. B.B.
        Bhattacharya, Vice-Chancellor of JNU, has agreed to grace the
        occasion as Chief Guest. Shri S. N. Subba Rao, Chairman, Indian
        Committee of Youth Organizations (ICYO) will commence the programme
        with Prarthana Sabha (Prayer Meeting).
        >
        >
        >
        > Programme Schedule:
        >
        >
        >
        > 5:00 PM
        >
        > Peace March from Administrative Block to Open Air Theatre, behind
        Kamal Complex, JNU.
        >
        >
        >
        > 6:00 PM
        >
        > Prarthana Sabha (Prayer Meeting)
        >
        >
        >
        > 6:10 PM
        >
        > Inaugural Address by Prof. B.B. Bhattacharya, Vice-Chancellor,
        JNU, New Delhi
        >
        >
        >
        > 6:20 PM
        >
        > Prof. V.K. Tripathi, President, Sadbhav Mission, IIT, New Delhi,
        will speak on role of youth on nation building.
        >
        >
        >
        > 6:30 PM
        >
        > Cultural Programme by youth from different states.
        >
        >
        >
        > 8:00 PM
        >
        > Vote of Thanks
        >
        >
        >
        > All are cordially invited to attend the National Youth Meet
        >
        >
        >
        > Date: November 11, 2005
        >
        >
        >
        > Time: 05-11-2005
        >
        >
        >
        > Venue: Open Air Theatre, Behind Kamal Complex, JNU, New Delhi.
        >
        >
        >
        > Regards,
        >
        > Sneha
        >
        >
        >
        > Sneha Singh
        > Secretary
        > Ark Foundation
        > www.arkindia.org.in
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arkitectindia/
        > Phone: +919868740449,9873078161, 9873078162
        >
        > ---------------------------------
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        >
        > ---------------------------------
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        >
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        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        Service.
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      • Rahul Asthana
        Hi, First of all, let me share that reading about the program the name of Mr. S N SubbaRao caught my eye. He is known for conducting youth programmes since a
        Message 3 of 12 , Nov 10, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi,
          First of all, let me share that reading about the
          program the name of Mr. S N SubbaRao caught my eye. He
          is known for conducting youth programmes since a long
          time.I attended one such program long time back in the
          eighties when I was 10 or 11 in Kanyakumari. It was a
          lovely experience to rub shoulders with youth from
          every part of the country and learning to greet them
          in their languages. Moreover, we were blessed with the
          presence of the great Baba Amte.He did not need to
          preach anything.Just the image of a man who cannot
          sit, but can only stand or lie down, yet walks around
          energetically for some task or other for the common
          good was inspiring beyond words. We had the good
          fortune to see him off on the start of the knit india
          movement. We too had the same irreverence of old age
          and resistance towards being preached;( I remember
          once we clapped before a speech was finished) but
          inspite of ourselves we had many positives to take
          home from that experience.
          I know, nostalgia and respect are too trite to have
          any practical value, but I sense a paranoia towards
          old age and experience which I cant see the reason
          for. If opinions of elders should not be accepted
          because of their age, they should not be rejected too
          because of their age.Mr Subbarao can probably teach
          us a thing or two about organizing youth camps.Why
          cant the youth be discerning enough to take the
          opinions at face value without worrying about the age?

          regards
          Rahul
          --- arkitect95 <arkitect95@...> wrote:

          > Dear Bholenath, Meher and Shabnam,
          >
          > Thank you very much for your direction to improve
          > our programme.
          > There will be only three persons from older
          > generations who will be
          > speaking. Rest of the programme will be by youths.
          > Most of the
          > volunteers, members and office bearers of Ark
          > Foundation are youth.
          > The most active members like Sneha, Negi, Pallavi,
          > Babita, Shikha,
          > to name a few, are students of JNU. Right from the
          > Chairperson to
          > active members of Ark Foundation are youth. Ark is
          > organization of
          > youths. I think it will be injustice with the
          > organizers to say that
          > they are not giving space to youth. It will be youth
          > everywhere
          > except few exception. We believe there must be some
          > link between old
          > and new generations.
          >
          > We shall be grateful if your criticism is supported
          > by some
          > suggestions so that we can work on it. The very
          > purpose of the e-
          > forum is to excahnge ideas and experiences to learn
          > from each other.
          > We all are students and new in this field. Till
          > yesterdays we were
          > reading and learning in classrooms and now we are
          > experimenting and
          > learning in fields. The most important thing is that
          > we are always
          > open to learn new ideas to make our effort more
          > result oriented.
          > Please keep guiding us.
          >
          > We are always open for more comment, criticism and
          > suggestion.
          > Thanks
          > Shaheen Ansari
          > Programme Coordinator
          > Ark Foundation
          >
          > --- In arkitectindia@yahoogroups.com, meher engineer
          >
          > <mengineer2003@y...> wrote:
          > >
          > > In plain speech, it is ridiculous. It also plays
          > into the hands of
          > the Orientalists of today by gifting them with the
          > opportunity for a
          > rant on the "changeless Orient".
          > >
          > > Do you remember another recent instance of the
          > same kind of
          > rubbish within Arkitectindia, contained in a
          > response to an email
          > from Sneha Singh (if I remember right), or someone
          > similar, about
          > the pitifully poor opportunities available to young,
          > poor muslims
          > living in New Delhi. That great elder of today, Md.
          > Shabuddin did
          > what India's elders have done for ages i.e.,
          > "opined" that only
          > educated young Muslims should lead the poor Muslim
          > masses. When will
          > we learn?
          > >
          > > meher engineer
          > >
          > > Anhad Delhi <anhad_delhi@y...> wrote:
          > > Its amazing that a 5 hour evening programme where
          > 2000 young
          > minds would only listen to 5 elders ( according to
          > the programme
          > below) can be called a National Youth Meet. It is
          > high time that we
          > stop preching the young generation and organsing
          > prathana sabha's
          > for them.
          > >
          > > It would do a lot of good to all elders and
          > intellectuals/
          > activists of the 50+ generation to listen to young
          > voices.
          > >
          > > shabnam hashmi .
          > >
          > > Sneha Singh <sneharkitect@y...> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > Invitation to
          > Participate in National Youth Meet
          > >
          > >
          >
          > In J.N.U., New Delhi
          > >
          > > Dear Friends,
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > 2000 young men and women from more than 20 states
          > of India will
          > participate in the National Integration Youth Camp
          > at Jawaharlal
          > Nehru University (JNU), New Delhi on November 11,
          > 2005. Prof. B.B.
          > Bhattacharya, Vice-Chancellor of JNU, has agreed to
          > grace the
          > occasion as Chief Guest. Shri S. N. Subba Rao,
          > Chairman, Indian
          > Committee of Youth Organizations (ICYO) will
          > commence the programme
          > with Prarthana Sabha (Prayer Meeting).
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Programme Schedule:
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > 5:00 PM
          > >
          > > Peace March from Administrative Block to Open Air
          > Theatre, behind
          > Kamal Complex, JNU.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > 6:00 PM
          > >
          > > Prarthana Sabha (Prayer Meeting)
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > 6:10 PM
          > >
          > > Inaugural Address by Prof. B.B. Bhattacharya,
          > Vice-Chancellor,
          > JNU, New Delhi
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > 6:20 PM
          > >
          > > Prof. V.K. Tripathi, President, Sadbhav Mission,
          > IIT, New Delhi,
          > will speak on role of youth on nation building.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > 6:30 PM
          > >
          > > Cultural Programme by youth from different states.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > 8:00 PM
          > >
          > > Vote of Thanks
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > All are cordially invited to attend the National
          > Youth Meet
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Date: November 11, 2005
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Time: 05-11-2005
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Venue: Open Air Theatre, Behind Kamal Complex,
          > JNU, New Delhi.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Regards,
          > >
          > > Sneha
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Sneha Singh
          > > Secretary
          > > Ark Foundation
          > > www.arkindia.org.in
          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arkitectindia/
          > > Phone: +919868740449,9873078161, 9873078162
          > >
          > > ---------------------------------
          >
          === message truncated ===





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        • meher engineer
          Dear Shaheen and other Arkitects, Thank you very much for taking the tiem to explain how your group works in more detail. I accept what you say. But I did not
          Message 4 of 12 , Nov 11, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            Dear Shaheen and other Arkitects,
             
            Thank you very much for taking the tiem to explain how your group works in more detail. I accept what you say. But I did not give any "directions" earlier and am not going to do so now, inspite of your request. I would direct a young child to stop crossing a busy city street on his own. It would be interefering with his freedom - which is what authority is all about, isn't it ? - but the interference could be justified, I think. 
             
            Children accept clear bounds set by their elders on their own. I don't know why they do but they do. But you guys are doing many things every day, either on your own or together. The forthcoming event is just one more such thing. Its your act. That's as it should be. Who ever learns anything about the world except by acting on it? 

             

            No authority, in the patriarchal family, between siblings, in a gang, in gender relations, at work, within the political party, the religion, the state etc. is self-justifying, so all can be questioned. Which is good, no?, for the accepting child trying to grow into an autonomous individual redy to accept responsibility for his own acts? 

             

            With best wishes,

             

            meher engineer 

             

            arkitect95 <arkitect95@...> wrote:
            Dear Bholenath, Meher  and Shabnam,

            Thank you very much for your direction to improve our programme.
            There will be only three persons from older generations who will be
            speaking. Rest of the programme will be by youths. Most of the 
            volunteers, members and office bearers of Ark Foundation are youth.
            The most active members like Sneha, Negi, Pallavi, Babita, Shikha,
            to name a few, are students of JNU. Right from the Chairperson to
            active members  of Ark Foundation are youth. Ark is organization of
            youths. I think it will be injustice with the organizers to say that
            they are not giving space to youth. It will be youth everywhere
            except few exception. We believe there must be some link between old
            and new generations.

            We shall be grateful if your criticism is supported by some
            suggestions so that we can work on it. The very purpose of the e-
            forum is to excahnge ideas and experiences to learn from each other.
            We all are students and new in this field. Till yesterdays we were
            reading and learning in classrooms and now we are experimenting and
            learning in fields. The most important thing is that we are always
            open to learn new ideas to make our effort more result oriented. 
            Please keep guiding us.

            We are always open for more comment, criticism and suggestion.
            Thanks
            Shaheen Ansari
            Programme Coordinator
            Ark Foundation

            --- In arkitectindia@yahoogroups.com, meher engineer
            <mengineer2003@y...> wrote:
            >
            > In plain speech, it is ridiculous. It also plays into the hands of
            the Orientalists of today by gifting them with the opportunity for a
            rant on the "changeless Orient".

            > Do you remember another recent instance of the same kind of
            rubbish within Arkitectindia,  contained in a response to an email
            from Sneha Singh (if I remember right), or someone similar, about
            the pitifully poor opportunities available to young, poor muslims
            living in New Delhi. That great elder of today, Md. Shabuddin did
            what India's elders have done for ages i.e., "opined" that only
            educated young Muslims should lead the poor Muslim masses. When will
            we learn?

            > meher engineer   
            >
            > Anhad Delhi <anhad_delhi@y...> wrote:
            > Its amazing that a 5 hour  evening programme where  2000 young
            minds would only listen to 5 elders ( according to the programme
            below) can be called a National Youth Meet. It is high time that we
            stop preching the young generation and organsing prathana sabha's
            for them.

            > It would do a lot of good to all elders and intellectuals/
            activists of the 50+ generation to  listen to young voices.

            > shabnam hashmi .
            >
            > Sneha Singh <sneharkitect@y...> wrote:
            >
            >                                             Invitation to
            Participate in National Youth Meet
            >
            >                                                                   
                  In J.N.U., New Delhi
            >
            > Dear Friends,
            >

            >
            > 2000 young men and women from more than 20 states of India will
            participate in the National Integration Youth Camp at Jawaharlal
            Nehru University (JNU), New Delhi on November 11, 2005. Prof. B.B.
            Bhattacharya, Vice-Chancellor of JNU, has agreed to grace the
            occasion as Chief Guest. Shri S. N. Subba Rao, Chairman, Indian
            Committee of Youth Organizations (ICYO) will commence the programme
            with Prarthana Sabha (Prayer Meeting).
            >

            >
            > Programme Schedule:
            >

            >
            > 5:00 PM
            >
            > Peace March from Administrative Block to Open Air Theatre, behind
            Kamal Complex, JNU.
            >

            >
            > 6:00 PM
            >
            > Prarthana Sabha (Prayer Meeting)
            >

            >
            > 6:10 PM
            >
            > Inaugural Address by Prof. B.B. Bhattacharya, Vice-Chancellor,
            JNU, New Delhi
            >

            >
            > 6:20 PM
            >
            > Prof. V.K. Tripathi, President, Sadbhav Mission, IIT, New Delhi,
            will speak on role of youth on nation building.
            >

            >
            > 6:30 PM
            >
            > Cultural Programme by youth from different states.
            >

            >
            > 8:00 PM
            >
            > Vote of Thanks
            >

            >
            > All are cordially invited to attend the National Youth Meet
            >

            >
            > Date:    November 11, 2005
            >

            >
            > Time:    05-11-2005
            >

            >
            > Venue:  Open Air Theatre, Behind Kamal Complex, JNU, New Delhi.
            >

            >
            > Regards,
            >
            > Sneha
            >
            >
            >
            > Sneha Singh
            > Secretary
            > Ark Foundation
            > www.arkindia.org.in
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arkitectindia/
            > Phone: +919868740449,9873078161, 9873078162
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all
            new Yahoo! Security Centre.
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Enjoy this Diwali with Y! India Click here
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
            >
            >
            >     Visit your group "arkitectindia" on the web.
            >  
            >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            >  arkitectindia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >  
            >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            Service.
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >            
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          • bholenath_vishwakarma@ril.com
            dear all who live in delhi please read this. and if you want to know the charade under which world bank has taken over water issue of the poor countries like
            Message 5 of 12 , Nov 11, 2005
            • 0 Attachment

              dear all who live in delhi please read this.
              and if you want to know the charade under which world bank has taken over water issue of the poor countries like africa and stupid country like india........u better read Aundhati Roy's "Algebra of Infinite Justice"
              regards
              bholenath
              -------------------------------------------------

              Editorial: I really have no problem with the World Bank

              -------------------------------------------------

              I write this because of the continued ineptness of its policies. It
              makes us lose time and direction again and again. Just look at the
              latest so-called water privatisation programme of the Bank and the
              Delhi government.

              It is a 24x7 water distribution scheme. Parts of the city will be
              hived off to private contractors, who will ensure water supplied by
              public utility Delhi Jal Board (DJB) is distributed to homes 24x7. The
              contractor will be paid for these services, will collect water bills
              and bring "efficiency" to the system. That is, the contractor will
              reduce distribution losses -- currently between 40 - 50 per cent of
              all water supplied. The plan was developed by the World Bank and its
              consultants for the Delhi government, which has been struggling to
              reform DJB. The reasoning is impeccable: supply constant water so that
              pressure in the pipes will reduce leakage from sewage pipes and, in
              turn, contamination of household water supply.

              All was well until an intrepid non-government group, Parivartan, got
              its hands on the contracts of the deal. It cried foul, finding huge
              monies were paid to Bank consultants and even fatter contracts were on
              the cards with multinational water distribution companies. If signed,
              Parivartan alleged, the contracts would deny water to slums, for there
              would be no more free water. The bottomline it said: water tariffs
              were set to increase 6 times as a result of these contracts.

              The campaign has hit home: resident welfare organisations, political
              parities of all hues, have joined the resistance against the World
              Bank-private takeover of the city's water supply. The city government
              is diving for cover; it is said the plan is 'temporarily' shelved. The
              Bank, it is said, is committed to an idea it has tried out in other
              poor cities of the world. Unsuccessfully. But persistence, clearly, is
              the name of the game.

              The fact is the plan is not worth the time being spent on it -- on
              proposing it or on opposing it. It is not designed to even work.

              Let us understand it better. First: how much water is needed? The
              consultant's report makes this mess evident. In one water distribution
              zone, the DJB estimated the consumption was 139 million litres daily
              (mld). Then supply was measured, and found to be 223 mld, a huge
              difference of over 100 million litres of water a day. Unable to
              explain this, the consultant simply advises the Bank/government
              combine to neglect the difference and go by DJB figures. In other
              words, as expected, little is known of the water situation in this
              zone.

              The outcome is that little is also known of the current demand (based
              on water received once a day or even lesser) as compared to what it
              will be when water is supplied 24x7. The consultant's monitoring
              estimates say it should be 189 litres per capita daily (lpcd). But in
              the project's calculations, water demand is estimated by taking into
              account a much lesser quantum of daily consumption - 130 lpcd for just
              13 per cent of the rich and 30 lpcd for 32 per cent of the poor. The
              result is that total demand for this zone is predicted to be just 66
              lpcd, or 48 mld. This is jugglery. The purpose: project proponents can
              say there is a water surplus in the area and so their scheme is
              viable.

              The fact is water is scarce and little has been done to change that.
              There is absolutely no estimation of how much additional water will be
              needed if the scheme does indeed supply water for 24 hours. The
              workplan simply is that the private company will reduce the 50 per
              cent distribution losses, and that this recovered water will make good
              the difference.

              But again, there is no understanding of what these "losses" are.
              Surely 50 per cent of Delhi's water supply is not being siphoned off
              by thieves? From what little is known, it seems water losses are about
              leakages from underground connections -- water supply points. Which
              company, however efficient, will be able to retrofit all the
              underground connections?

              Then there is the tariff question. It is estimated it costs the
              government Rs 8-9 to supply 1,000 litres of water; for this, it
              charges roughly Rs 2. Nobody knows what collection and disposal of
              sewage costs, but it is estimated it is normally five times higher
              than water distribution costs. The new scheme reproduces these two
              travesties. The government will be in charge of water tariffs, which
              it promises not to raise even if households use much more water. Also,
              the scheme does not include the collection of sewage. In other words,
              more water will be supplied, which will not be paid for. More sewage
              will be generated, which will not be paid for. A public water utility
              that is inefficient also because it does not get paid will become even
              more burdened, poorer.

              In sum, this is nothing but selective subsidisation, for the richer
              people of the city, in which the distributor will collect a little
              from those who can pay. This is not privatisation. This is certainly
              not reform.

              Currently, people whom water reaches use it 24x7, because they store
              it in tanks and can afford household devices to clean it. The real
              issue is to ensure supply to all, on an equitable basis. Meter the
              richer people, recover fuller costs from them and reform the sewage
              system.

              This is the reform agenda this poorly conceived programme will
              jeopardise. As opinions sharply polarise -- between those who support
              water 'reform' (read privatisation and the World Bank) and those who
              want state control to continue -- crucial time will be lost. An
              opportunity for serious change will be missed.

              Maybe the World Bank should be transformed into a debating society.
              That would be less wasteful: of their ideas and our time.

              -- Sunita Narain
              < editor@... >

            • Anhad
              thanks Shaheen, i hp the event went off well. I agree with you. Shd have found out more from you before shooting off the e-mail. sorry for that. I think it is
              Message 6 of 12 , Nov 11, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                thanks Shaheen,
                 
                i hp the event went off well. I agree with you. Shd have found out more from you before shooting off the e-mail. sorry for that. I think it is sometimes the desparation that some of us feel of not being able to do enough. In the last 15 years I have seen the deterioration in the general discourse. We dreamt of making a society where everyone will be equal, now it seems that even the goal of saving democracy in the country is difficult. The onslaught of most retrogressive ideas, prejudices, superstitions and ofcouse the fascist ideology seem to be overtaking everything logical and rational. I feel we have failed miserably somewhere and perhaps only the youth can turn the tide.
                 
                in solidarity
                shabnam
                 

                arkitect95 <arkitect95@...> wrote:
                Dear Bholenath, Meher and Shabnam,

                Thank you very much for your direction to improve our programme.
                There will be only three persons from older generations who will be
                speaking. Rest of the programme will be by youths. Most of the
                volunteers, members and office bearers of Ark Foundation are youth.
                The most active members like Sneha, Negi, Pallavi, Babita, Shikha,
                to name a few, are students of JNU. Right from the Chairperson to
                active members of Ark Foundation are youth. Ark is organization of
                youths. I think it will be injustice with the organizers to say that
                they are not giving space to youth. It will be youth everywhere
                except few exception. We believe there must be some link between old
                and new generations.

                We shall be grateful if your criticism is supported by some
                suggestions so that we can work on it. The very purpose of the e-
                forum is to excahnge ideas and experiences to learn from each other.
                We all are students and new in this field. Till yesterdays we were
                reading and learning in classrooms and now we are experimenting and
                learning in fields. The most important thing is that we are always
                open to learn new ideas to make our effort more result oriented.
                Please keep guiding us.

                We are always open for more comment, criticism and suggestion.
                Thanks
                Shaheen Ansari
                Programme Coordinator
                Ark Foundation

                --- In arkitectindia@yahoogroups.com, meher engineer
                wrote:
                >
                > In plain speech, it is ridiculous. It also plays into the hands of
                the Orientalists of today by gifting them with the opportunity for a
                rant on the "changeless Orient".
                >
                > Do you remember another recent instance of the same kind of
                rubbish within Arkitectindia, contained in a response to an email
                from Sneha Singh (if I remember right), or someone similar, about
                the pitifully poor opportunities available to young, poor muslims
                living in New Delhi. That great elder of today, Md. Shabuddin did
                what India's elders have done for ages i.e., "opined" that only
                educated young Muslims should lead the poor Muslim masses. When will
                we learn?
                >
                > meher engineer
                >
                > Anhad Delhi wrote:
                > Its amazing that a 5 hour evening programme where 2000 young
                minds would only listen to 5 elders ( according to the programme
                below) can be called a National Youth Meet. It is high time that we
                stop preching the young generation and organsing prathana sabha's
                for them.
                >
                > It would do a lot of good to all elders and intellectuals/
                activists of the 50+ generation to listen to young voices.
                >
                > shabnam hashmi .
                >
                > Sneha Singh wrote:
                >
                > Invitation to
                Participate in National Youth Meet
                >
                >
                In J.N.U., New Delhi
                >
                > Dear Friends,
                >
                >
                >
                > 2000 young men and women from more than 20 states of India will
                participate in the National Integration Youth Camp at Jawaharlal
                Nehru University (JNU), New Delhi on November 11, 2005. Prof. B.B.
                Bhattacharya, Vice-Chancellor of JNU, has agreed to grace the
                occasion as Chief Guest. Shri S. N. Subba Rao, Chairman, Indian
                Committee of Youth Organizations (ICYO) will commence the programme
                with Prarthana Sabha (Prayer Meeting).
                >
                >
                >
                > Programme Schedule:
                >
                >
                >
                > 5:00 PM
                >
                > Peace March from Administrative Block to Open Air Theatre, behind
                Kamal Complex, JNU.
                >
                >
                >
                > 6:00 PM
                >
                > Prarthana Sabha (Prayer Meeting)
                >
                >
                >
                > 6:10 PM
                >
                > Inaugural Address by Prof. B.B. Bhattacharya, Vice-Chancellor,
                JNU, New Delhi
                >
                >
                >
                > 6:20 PM
                >
                > Prof. V.K. Tripathi, President, Sadbhav Mission, IIT, New Delhi,
                will speak on role of youth on nation building.
                >
                >
                >
                > 6:30 PM
                >
                > Cultural Programme by youth from different states.
                >
                >
                >
                > 8:00 PM
                >
                > Vote of Thanks
                >
                >
                >
                > All are cordially invited to attend the National Youth Meet
                >
                >
                >
                > Date: November 11, 2005
                >
                >
                >
                > Time: 05-11-2005
                >
                >
                >
                > Venue: Open Air Theatre, Behind Kamal Complex, JNU, New Delhi.
                >
                >
                >
                > Regards,
                >
                > Sneha
                >
                >
                >
                > Sneha Singh
                > Secretary
                > Ark Foundation
                > www.arkindia.org.in
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arkitectindia/
                > Phone: +919868740449,9873078161, 9873078162
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all
                new Yahoo! Security Centre.
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > Enjoy this Diwali with Y! India Click here
                >
                > ---------------------------------
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                >
                >
                > Visit your group "arkitectindia" on the web.
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > arkitectindia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                Service.
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------
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                "Man's dearest possession is life. It is given to him but once, and he must live it so as to feel no torturing regrets for wasted years, never know the burning shame of a mean and petty past; so live that, dying he might say: all my life, all my strength were given to the finest cause in all the world- the fight for the Liberation of Mankind."

                Nikolai Ostrovsky


                Enjoy this Diwali with Y! India Click here

              • Aamir Riaz
                shabnam ji, i agree with u. last month i was in District ketch(turbat) baluchistan where one of son of great baloch nationalist leader and general secratery of
                Message 7 of 12 , Nov 14, 2005
                • 0 Attachment

                  shabnam ji, i agree with u. last month i was in District ketch(turbat) baluchistan where one of son of great baloch nationalist leader and general secratery of mass political party of balochs National Party Mir hasal bazenjo told me that i think people like us r redundent now.

                  am editor of an left libral urdu magaziene awami jamhori forum in lahore. i interviewed numerous people including urself , burdan, surjeet and pakistani leftists. i must say that left in perticular or u can include right as well in it, failed to deliver. bottomless political workers and oppertunists have sucess stories in both sides. in pakistan, as state was islami, so religious parties(even those who were against partion of india and M.A.jinnah) have ample state to play with it while left have not any real uptodte thesis about their own society. in india, as state was secular , communists or progressives have ample state to play with while right in india failed to give alternative. so now youth is on crossroads. neither green nor red. for me, every one wants to play with youth and poverty but not ready to address the issue.

                  aamir riaz

                  lahore




                  aamir riaz

                  E 3/8 ST#6 CAVALERY GROUNDS LAHORE

                  CANTT TEL 042-6662196 CELL 0333-4226323


                  From: Anhad <ANHADINFO@...>
                  Reply-To: arkitectindia@yahoogroups.com
                  To: arkitectindia@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [arkitectindia] Re: National Youth Meet.
                  Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 04:50:01 +0000 (GMT)

                  thanks Shaheen,
                   
                  i hp the event went off well. I agree with you. Shd have found out more from you before shooting off the e-mail. sorry for that. I think it is sometimes the desparation that some of us feel of not being able to do enough. In the last 15 years I have seen the deterioration in the general discourse. We dreamt of making a society where everyone will be equal, now it seems that even the goal of saving democracy in the country is difficult. The onslaught of most retrogressive ideas, prejudices, superstitions and ofcouse the fascist ideology seem to be overtaking everything logical and rational. I feel we have failed miserably somewhere and perhaps only the youth can turn the tide.
                   
                  in solidarity
                  shabnam
                   

                  arkitect95 <arkitect95@...> wrote:
                  Dear Bholenath, Meher and Shabnam,

                  Thank you very much for your direction to improve our programme.
                  There will be only three persons from older generations who will be
                  speaking. Rest of the programme will be by youths. Most of the
                  volunteers, members and office bearers of Ark Foundation are youth.
                  The most active members like Sneha, Negi, Pallavi, Babita, Shikha,
                  to name a few, are students of JNU. Right from the Chairperson to
                  active members of Ark Foundation are youth. Ark is organization of
                  youths. I think it will be injustice with the organizers to say that
                  they are not giving space to youth. It will be youth everywhere
                  except few exception. We believe there must be some link between old
                  and new generations.

                  We shall be grateful if your criticism is supported by some
                  suggestions so that we can work on it. The very purpose of the e-
                  forum is to excahnge ideas and experiences to learn from each other.
                  We all are students and new in this field. Till yesterdays we were
                  reading and learning in classrooms and now we are experimenting and
                  learning in fields. The most important thing is that we are always
                  open to learn new ideas to make our effort more result oriented.
                  Please keep guiding us.

                  We are always open for more comment, criticism and suggestion.
                  Thanks
                  Shaheen Ansari
                  Programme Coordinator
                  Ark Foundation

                  --- In arkitectindia@yahoogroups.com, meher engineer
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > In plain speech, it is ridiculous. It also plays into the hands of
                  the Orientalists of today by gifting them with the opportunity for a
                  rant on the "changeless Orient".
                  >
                  > Do you remember another recent instance of the same kind of
                  rubbish within Arkitectindia, contained in a response to an email
                  from Sneha Singh (if I remember right), or someone similar, about
                  the pitifully poor opportunities available to young, poor muslims
                  living in New Delhi. That great elder of today, Md. Shabuddin did
                  what India's elders have done for ages i.e., "opined" that only
                  educated young Muslims should lead the poor Muslim masses. When will
                  we learn?
                  >
                  > meher engineer
                  >
                  > Anhad Delhi wrote:
                  > Its amazing that a 5 hour evening programme where 2000 young
                  minds would only listen to 5 elders ( according to the programme
                  below) can be called a National Youth Meet. It is high time that we
                  stop preching the young generation and organsing prathana sabha's
                  for them.
                  >
                  > It would do a lot of good to all elders and intellectuals/
                  activists of the 50+ generation to listen to young voices.
                  >
                  > shabnam hashmi .
                  >
                  > Sneha Singh wrote:
                  >
                  > Invitation to
                  Participate in National Youth Meet
                  >
                  >
                  In J.N.U., New Delhi
                  >
                  > Dear Friends,
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 2000 young men and women from more than 20 states of India will
                  participate in the National Integration Youth Camp at Jawaharlal
                  Nehru University (JNU), New Delhi on November 11, 2005. Prof. B.B.
                  Bhattacharya, Vice-Chancellor of JNU, has agreed to grace the
                  occasion as Chief Guest. Shri S. N. Subba Rao, Chairman, Indian
                  Committee of Youth Organizations (ICYO) will commence the programme
                  with Prarthana Sabha (Prayer Meeting).
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Programme Schedule:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 5:00 PM
                  >
                  > Peace March from Administrative Block to Open Air Theatre, behind
                  Kamal Complex, JNU.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 6:00 PM
                  >
                  > Prarthana Sabha (Prayer Meeting)
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 6:10 PM
                  >
                  > Inaugural Address by Prof. B.B. Bhattacharya, Vice-Chancellor,
                  JNU, New Delhi
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 6:20 PM
                  >
                  > Prof. V.K. Tripathi, President, Sadbhav Mission, IIT, New Delhi,
                  will speak on role of youth on nation building.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 6:30 PM
                  >
                  > Cultural Programme by youth from different states.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > 8:00 PM
                  >
                  > Vote of Thanks
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > All are cordially invited to attend the National Youth Meet
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Date: November 11, 2005
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Time: 05-11-2005
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Venue: Open Air Theatre, Behind Kamal Complex, JNU, New Delhi.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  >
                  > Sneha
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Sneha Singh
                  > Secretary
                  > Ark Foundation
                  > www.arkindia.org.in
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arkitectindia/
                  > Phone: +919868740449,9873078161, 9873078162
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all
                  new Yahoo! Security Centre.
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > Enjoy this Diwali with Y! India Click here
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                  >
                  >
                  > Visit your group "arkitectindia" on the web.
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > arkitectindia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                  Service.
                  >
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
                  >









                  ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
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                  "Man's dearest possession is life. It is given to him but once, and he must live it so as to feel no torturing regrets for wasted years, never know the burning shame of a mean and petty past; so live that, dying he might say: all my life, all my strength were given to the finest cause in all the world- the fight for the Liberation of Mankind."

                  Nikolai Ostrovsky


                  Enjoy this Diwali with Y! India Click here

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                • Sankrant Sanu
                  Dear Shabnam, Please consider whether the answer lies in youth or in young ideas. If the new generation remains stuck with the same ideas that the previous one
                  Message 8 of 12 , Nov 15, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Dear Shabnam,
                     
                    Please consider whether the answer lies in youth or in young ideas. If the new generation remains stuck with the same ideas that the previous one was obsessed with then perhaps the results will also be the same, irrespective of age. Instead we need fresh thinking.
                     
                    You say you dream of making a society where everyone is equal and you long for logic and rationality. From where did we get these particular ideas and why do we think they will solve anything? Hitler was perfectly logical and rational in thinking his "final solution", so were Stalin and Mao when they sent millions to their death. No doubt American extermination of the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was eminently rational as were the World Wars of post-"enlightenment" Europe. Perhaps there is something else besides logic and reason that need to come into play -- we may even need to turn to a touch of retrogressive Indian enlightenment from the Buddha.
                     
                    Finally, that great principle of equality -- "all men are created equal" (even setting aside the fact that when it was enunciated in America "all men" really only meant All White Protestant males) -- is itself profoundly irrational. It can only be justified as a religious idea not as a scientific observation of reality. If reality is not so, then the idea that it must be made so is also a religious idea -- and a pursuit of that religious normative ideal has consistently led to violence.
                     
                    It is worth asking whether the "dreams" have come to nought because they are inherently contradictary -- just like liberty, equality and fraternity are -- at least as they have been imagined.
                     
                    To be very clear, when I question these ideas, I am not advocating their opposite either -- that lack of equality or liberty (or some imagined "caste system") etc is the answer. What I am saying is that we need to question the deeply held assumptions behind the principles we espouse and clarify our own prejudices, contradictions and pre-conceived, often pre-packaged, ideas. And then meditate on fresh possibilities, stepping away from the received wisdom that we repeat ad nauseum. Some superstitious yoga-asana or pranayama may even help. The young are doing it.
                     
                    Warm Regards, Sankrant.
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Anhad
                    Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 8:50 PM
                    Subject: Re: [arkitectindia] Re: National Youth Meet.

                    thanks Shaheen,
                     
                    i hp the event went off well. I agree with you. Shd have found out more from you before shooting off the e-mail. sorry for that. I think it is sometimes the desparation that some of us feel of not being able to do enough. In the last 15 years I have seen the deterioration in the general discourse. We dreamt of making a society where everyone will be equal, now it seems that even the goal of saving democracy in the country is difficult. The onslaught of most retrogressive ideas, prejudices, superstitions and ofcouse the fascist ideology seem to be overtaking everything logical and rational. I feel we have failed miserably somewhere and perhaps only the youth can turn the tide.
                     
                    in solidarity
                    shabnam
                     
                  • david soori
                    Dear Friends, As long as money is created out of NOTHING as an exponential interest bearing debt, we all remain slaves, perhaps minus the neckless and angle
                    Message 9 of 12 , Nov 15, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Dear Friends,
                      As long as money is created out of NOTHING as an exponential interest bearing debt, we all remain slaves, perhaps minus the neckless and angle iron but an albotross around our neck from inseption until death.
                      ''If you want to remain slaves and pay the cost of your own slavery, let the banks create the money''
                      Until this creation is restored to an elected government we all remain slaves.
                      david soori

                      Sankrant Sanu <Sankrant@...> wrote:
                      Dear Shabnam,
                       
                      Please consider whether the answer lies in youth or in young ideas. If the new generation remains stuck with the same ideas that the previous one was obsessed with then perhaps the results will also be the same, irrespective of age. Instead we need fresh thinking.
                       
                      You say you dream of making a society where everyone is equal and you long for logic and rationality. From where did we get these particular ideas and why do we think they will solve anything? Hitler was perfectly logical and rational in thinking his "final solution", so were Stalin and Mao when they sent millions to their death. No doubt American extermination of the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was eminently rational as were the World Wars of post-"enlightenment" Europe. Perhaps there is something else besides logic and reason that need to come into play -- we may even need to turn to a touch of retrogressive Indian enlightenment from the Buddha.
                       
                      Finally, that great principle of equality -- "all men are created equal" (even setting aside the fact that when it was enunciated in America "all men" really only meant All White Protestant males) -- is itself profoundly irrational. It can only be justified as a religious idea not as a scientific observation of reality. If reality is not so, then the idea that it must be made so is also a religious idea -- and a pursuit of that religious normative ideal has consistently led to violence.
                       
                      It is worth asking whether the "dreams" have come to nought because they are inherently contradictary -- just like liberty, equality and fraternity are -- at least as they have been imagined.
                       
                      To be very clear, when I question these ideas, I am not advocating their opposite either -- that lack of equality or liberty (or some imagined "caste system") etc is the answer. What I am saying is that we need to question the deeply held assumptions behind the principles we espouse and clarify our own prejudices, contradictions and pre-conceived, often pre-packaged, ideas. And then meditate on fresh possibilities, stepping away from the received wisdom that we repeat ad nauseum. Some superstitious yoga-asana or pranayama may even help. The young are doing it.
                       
                      Warm Regards, Sankrant.
                       
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Anhad
                      Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 8:50 PM
                      Subject: Re: [arkitectindia] Re: National Youth Meet.

                      thanks Shaheen,
                       
                      i hp the event went off well. I agree with you. Shd have found out more from you before shooting off the e-mail. sorry for that. I think it is sometimes the desparation that some of us feel of not being able to do enough. In the last 15 years I have seen the deterioration in the general discourse. We dreamt of making a society where everyone will be equal, now it seems that even the goal of saving democracy in the country is difficult. The onslaught of most retrogressive ideas, prejudices, superstitions and ofcouse the fascist ideology seem to be overtaking everything logical and rational. I feel we have failed miserably somewhere and perhaps only the youth can turn the tide.
                       
                      in solidarity
                      shabnam
                       


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