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106Re: [arkitectindia] women issue

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  • Mohammad Siddiquie
    Oct 11, 2004
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      Dear Harjai
      Firstly I appreciate you to express your thoughts so
      frankly even if those are diameterically opposite to
      others. You have raised some valid issues. You are
      right that in democarcy every body has a right to
      express his views. Discussion is putting forward your
      views and listening to others views. You expect that
      others should be open minded to listen to your views
      but are you open enough for others views. I assume you
      are and rest of my writting is based on this
      assumption. Let me ask you some straight questions. I
      hope you will not mind
      1) I agree that whatever is happening with Kashimiri
      pandits is inhuman but does that conclude that
      whatever happened in Gujrat was correct. Can two
      wrongs make a right. Our problem is that we have
      categorised one problem into two. The problem is not
      that Pandits are killed in Kashmir and muslims in
      Gujrat. Problem is human beings are killed. As long as
      you consider this one problem into two you will try to
      justy later by former.
      2)You rightly said that India is secular while
      Pakistan and Bangladesh are not but question is do we
      want to make our India like Pakistan and Bagladesh?
      Why are we benchmarking ourselves with too low
      3) You said If population of muslims will continue to
      grow at the current rate muslims will soon out number
      hindus. Perhaphs your views are based on perceptions
      rather than facts. If you know a little mathmatics
      please calculate and tell us the exact year by which
      this is going to happen. Be logical.
      4) Yes I agree that Muslim growth rate is higher than
      what we as a nation can afford but than what is the
      solution Killing muslims or educating them
      5) You said that your views are not only yours but
      belong to millions of hindus. how can you say that so
      surely, have you meet million hindus and conducted a
      survey. I have meet thousands of hindus ( I can not
      claim millions) and I do not think that your views are
      representation of millions. My friend take
      reposnsibility of your own views and do not try to
      pose as self proclaimed leader of millions
      6) You rightly said that Kasmiri pandits also need
      help but what is your contribution in it.How many
      kashmiri pandits have you helped till date. preventing
      Dr Tripathi from helping people in godhra is not going
      to help kashmiri pandits. Come on my friend be
      constructive in your efforts rather than destructive
      7)Are you hurt by this mail. If yes than how can you
      expect that others are not hurt by your mail.

      I hope you will not quit discussion

      <soham_tatvamasi@...> wrote:

      > Dear Friends,
      > Sunita�s thoughts on medical check-up of female
      > candidates by male gynecologists are quite
      > revolutionary. I fail to understand what Sunita you
      > are trying to prove or say. The woman today is in no
      > need to prove that she is equal to man; in fact she
      > is more than a man. Time and again this truth has
      > been re-established. Our Ved/Puran and Upanishads
      > are full of praise of woman. The women who made her
      > name in the history never tried to prove that she is
      > equal to men, she did what she wanted to do and her
      > virtuous acts proved it abundantly. Then be it
      > Arundhati the wife of Saint Vashishth, Anusuya wife
      > of Saint Aattree, Savitri wife of King Ashvapati,
      > Sita the wife of Lord Ram, Sati wife of Lord Shiva,
      > Drupadi wife of the Pandavas, Gargi the daughter of
      > Saint Bachkan, Meera the wife of Rana Bhojraj,
      > Durgawati who fought Akbar, Laxmibai who fought with
      > the Britishers, Ahilyabai Holkar the Queen of Indore
      > who sentenced her own son for the crimes against the
      > public, Channamma the Queen of Keladi who gave
      > asylum to Shivaji Maharaja�s second son Raja Ram
      > without fearing the wrath of the cruel Aurangjeb,
      > Rudramba who was Queen of Kakteeya and ruled for 20
      > years in the thirteenth century or be it Bhagini
      > Nivedita the disciple of Swami Vivekananda. Even
      > today�s Newspaper flashed the news of Padmavathy the
      > first woman Air Marshal; the people have not
      > forgotten the contribution of Kalpana Chawla the
      > first Indian woman Astronaut at NASA. The list of
      > such Companies is in hundreds today who have women
      > CEO. These are just illustrating few. I can add
      > multiple of millions of such names of women who did
      > not have time to prove that she is better than man
      > but proved it by her virtues. These women never
      > demanded that they can be proved equal to man only
      > if they protest to use the toilets meant for males
      > or engage into homosexual activities or propagate
      > movies like Fire, Girlfriend, or is being used as a
      > sex model in the name of Fashion Shows/Beauty
      > Contest and is used as sexual attraction for selling
      > the cigarette/alcohol etc. Sunita, you need not be
      > told that you are free to exhibit your talents, it
      > is not the male who is stopping you to excel, if
      > there is a cause to this effect that is within you.
      > Come out of this perverted thought, the woman today
      > does not have time to criticize even this kind of
      > non-existing inequality. The women today is
      > extremely busy in proving her worth by actually
      > doing what she wants to do. Unfortunately, in our
      > country there are political unemployed persons and
      > ideologies that are trying to remove the apparel
      > from the women in the name of modernism. Please do
      > not fall prey to this kind of political trap. This
      > according to me is a total Non-Issue.
      > Regarding the report on Godhra, it is a piece of
      > rubbish. I do not know who is funding this kind of
      > visits of Vipin Tripathi. By the way, Vipin are you
      > a politician or a real social worker who wants to
      > serve the mankind? You have spent a lot of time and
      > money in meeting the few hundred Muslims who were
      > victimized at Gujarat. Please try to meet Lakhs of
      > Hindus who have been thrown out of Kashmir and are
      > living homeless. Please try to know from them how
      > the Muslims looted their properties, raped their
      > women folk and killed Lakhs of innocent Hindus. Why
      > Sambhav does not apply to them? Why no one from the
      > Friends spent some time to know their woos as well?
      > Why no one from you writes even a word on the
      > massacre of Hindus and rape of their women at
      > Kashmir? Why the communalism done by Muslim is
      > accepted without noise? Is it because in History
      > Muslim is an icon of terrorism and communalism and
      > Hindu is known for its love for peace? You are
      > talking about improving the lot of the Muslim folk;
      > do not forget that they have equal rights in India,
      > rather better than the majority community. What will
      > you do to improve their lot and in what way it will
      > be better than the improvement brought in by their
      > own rulers who ruthlessly suppressed Hindus for over
      > more than 1000 years? Please, my dear Tripathi,
      > think with an open mind and try to find out your
      > compulsions for spending your energies on such kind
      > of highly anti-National issues. If India has to
      > remain on the world Globe as a Nation, the need is
      > to recognize that India belongs only to Hindus.
      > There are no Muslims and Christians in India. All
      > those who worship India, as their Matribhoomi,
      > Pitreebhoomi and Punyabhoomi are Hindus. Yes, we do
      > have convert Hindus. Those who converted from
      > Hinduism to Islam or Christianity because of the
      > fear of sword of Mughals or because of allurement of
      > money spent by the Christian Missionaries will come
      > back to the main stream, once the Hindu regains its
      > lost glory. What we need is to strengthen the Hindus
      > or be ready for another 100 Pakistan in India.
      > Contd�2
      > (2)
      > I am not sure for continuation of exchange of
      > thoughts started by Friends through this forum.
      > Surely not if we do not want to hear and listen to
      > the other voices. The true democracy is that I must
      > respect the freedom of the voice of others even if I
      > do not agree with it. Please try to see there are
      > shades other than red and green. If you Friends are
      > really a group of open-minded right thinking people
      > then do not shortcut my views. Let all the Friends
      > also know that there are others and they have other
      > views, which are equally important for the plurality
      > of the country. These are not only my thoughts but
      > it is the voice of millions of Hindus who want to
      > know from groups like Friends to identify one place
      > in the Globe which is truly secular and is
      > predominately not Hindu. You will not find. India is
      > today secular because it is still Hindu majority
      > state. The parts of India, which did not remain
      > predominately Hindu, disintegrated, as Afghanistan,
      > Pakistan, and Bangladesh and are purely now Islamic
      > States and no body can talk of secularism there.
      > Friends cannot go there and preach this kind of
      > ideology. The way the Muslim population is growing
      > in India, that day is not very far when there will
      > be no place for people like Tripathi or Sunita to
      > preach secularism. Those who can bomb the statues of
      > Buddha will never tolerate the very idea of
      > secularism. I will have no regrets even if the
      > e-mail exchange is stopped henceforth. I do not
      > believe in hypocrisy and shall be happy even with
      > this short e-exchanges with the Friends.
      > Regards.
      > R M Harjai
      > On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 Sangeeta Kumari wrote :
      > >Hi
      > >
      > >I would like to add to Sunita's mail
      > >
      > >It was very sad to read news about medical check up
      > of newly selected women to serve in the Indian Army.
      > Don't army people know that we are in india where
      > women will never like to be checked so intimately as
      > have been done in Allahabad Army Headquarter? [ I
      > shall tell that even in so called advanced countries
      > such practices are not noticed]
      > >
      > >How can one justified that there is no "qualified
      > women doctors and gynecologists" to be appointed for
      > such posts. Every year so much girls medical
      > students pass out from medical colleges.
      > >
      > >Is it the result of insensitive India army or lack
      > of interest in upliftment of half of the inidan
      > population- women.
      > >
      > >Well we know that.
      > >
      > >Sngeeta
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 sunita ojha wrote :
      > > >Dear Friends,
      > > >
      > > >After reading the report on Godhra visit by Mr.
      > Tripathi ,i think that there is greater need to to
      > build bridges connecting people living in various
      > areas who are making efforts to organise themselves
      > in order to achieve certain basic things in lives.
      > > >
      > > >i also want to share my thoughts over the issue
      > of Medical checkup of female candidates (SSB) by
      > male gynocologists.
      > > >Majority of people around me feel that these
      > candidates are making unnecessary noise about the
      > issue. And that if women want to be treated equally
      > they must also not reck the issue of gender on each
      > occasion.
      > > >
      > > >i feel very perturbed by such averments. they
      > seem to be missing out the basic issue that as a
      > women we want to be treated equally and not be
      > denied things because of our gender but it does not
      > mean that we want to be completely obliterated as
      > women. Let the society and social institutions be
      > remoulded
      === message truncated ===

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