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Re: Montana and western states

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  • timrobertson18
    Fran--I agree that Mormons would be likely to actively fight against many FSP ideas (legalize marijuana for example). But I think that you could express your
    Message 1 of 5 , Jun 23, 2003
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      Fran--I agree that Mormons would be likely to actively fight against
      many FSP ideas (legalize marijuana for example). But I think that
      you could express your feelings about Mormons with a little more
      tact. I would guess that statements like that from the Utah LP
      leader have cost the Utah LP scores of members. What does the
      statement about mormon crickets riding bicycles (on your profile)
      mean exactly? Seems like a derogatory statement about missionaries
      if I don't miss my guess...

      --- In fourcornersporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "ftully" <ftully@e...>
      wrote:
      > >I would love to hear your thoughts on the western states. - Jessica
      >
      > My thoughts... OK. I love Wyoming. I lived there for a year and a
      half and
      > think the numbers that have been crunched by FSP support my idea
      that it is
      > the best. That said, I believe the FSP stands the best chance of
      survival in
      > Montana. I say that because I believe folks from cities could make
      an easy
      > transition. Idaho is a good state with good people, but there are
      too many
      > Mormons and too many on welfare. Don't misunderstand, I love
      Mormons, but I
      > believe when such a large mass of people can be influenced so
      easily, it is
      > dangerous. I also think that most farmers there are on some form of
      farm aid
      > (welfare) and would be very reluctant to give it up. If there are
      only a few
      > states I have ruled out, but I don't believe that they have much
      chance of
      > winning anyway. I strongly believe that the libertarian philosophy,
      and
      > self-sufficient stock of people in the western states make it a
      better
      > choice than the eastern states. I think the further we can get from
      > Washington DC and the heavily populated metropolitan areas, the
      better the
      > long-term prospects for the FSP.
      >
      > Clair Wolf, Vin Suprinowitz, and JJ Johnson all did good articles
      on the FSP
      > conference in Montana last week. I hope you will read them. All of
      them also
      > favor a western state victory.
      >
      >
      >
      > Fran Tully
      > State Chair
      > Libertarian Party of Utah
      > 801-949-3570
      >
      >
      > "In the long run, the greatest weapon of mass destruction is
      stupidity."
      >
      > -- Thomas Sowell
      >
      > "...It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate,
      > tireless
      > minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds..."
      >
      > - Founding Father Samuel Adams
    • jeremy d
      What s wrong with poking fun at mormons? They re collectivist bigots. If freedom is what you re looking for, steering clear of mormons is a good idea.
      Message 2 of 5 , Jun 23, 2003
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        What's wrong with poking fun at mormons? They're collectivist bigots.
        If freedom is what you're looking for, steering clear of mormons is a
        good idea.
      • Elysium Studios
        I would argue that unless it s generally a good natured poking fun , it s damaging and creates ill feelings. If that s your intent, you re free to pursue
        Message 3 of 5 , Jun 24, 2003
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          I would argue that unless it's generally a "good natured poking fun", it's damaging and creates ill feelings. If that's your intent, you're free to pursue that direction, but I can't see how it helps the FSP cause, or anyone else if it is intended to alienate and criticize others beliefs.

          If you have a deep belief in something and your get ridiculed about it, does it make you feel good? Just because someone doesn't share your belief's doesn't mean you should take pot shots at them. I doubt I will ever be a Mormon, devote Christian, Buddhist or any other form of organized religious belief system, as I have studied them all and practiced a few over the course of my life. And, if I told you what I did believe in, I have no doubt you'd think I was crazy too! I wouldn't want to be seriously ridiculed over it, although I could take it.

          We could find holes in your belief system too my friend, but I also understand your concerns. I have the same ones about institutionalized religion of all faiths, in fact I'm writing a screenplay on that very subject. However, I'm not arrogant enough to undermine the beliefs of others beyond meaningful dialogue, certainly not ridicule (the human mind is capable of remarkable denial and rationalization and the last thing any of use want to be called on is the fact that we are full of shit). There are those of use who can laugh at ourselves and I hope you're one of them.

          That having been said, I do recognize the dangers of allowing those whose beliefs would take my personal freedoms from me, and keeping them out of a position to so, is of paramount concern.

          Just something to think about,

          Do with it what you will...

          Regards to all,

          Wayne
          wayne@...

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: jeremy d
          To: fourcornersporcupines@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 10:19 PM
          Subject: [fourcornersporcupines] Re: Montana and western states


          What's wrong with poking fun at mormons? They're collectivist bigots.
          If freedom is what you're looking for, steering clear of mormons is a
          good idea.



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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Fran Tully
          ... I have no way of knowing how many potential Mormans my comment have cost, but no Morman members have left or even shown any concern over my statements. In
          Message 4 of 5 , Jul 11, 2003
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            --- In fourcornersporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "timrobertson18"
            <timrobertson18@h...> wrote:
            > Fran--I agree that Mormons would be likely to actively fight against
            > many FSP ideas (legalize marijuana for example). But I think that
            > you could express your feelings about Mormons with a little more
            > tact. I would guess that statements like that from the Utah LP
            > leader have cost the Utah LP scores of members. What does the
            > statement about mormon crickets riding bicycles (on your profile)
            > mean exactly? Seems like a derogatory statement about missionaries
            > if I don't miss my guess...

            I have no way of knowing how many potential Mormans my comment have
            cost, but no Morman members have left or even shown any concern over
            my statements. In fact, I have brought several new members into the party.
            The Morman crickets on bicycles was a joke that was enjoyed by
            everyone that has heard it. No harm was intended or percieved by those
            who I have met.


            >
            > --- In fourcornersporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "ftully" <ftully@e...>
            > wrote:
            > > >I would love to hear your thoughts on the western states. - Jessica
            > >
            > > My thoughts... OK. I love Wyoming. I lived there for a year and a
            > half and
            > > think the numbers that have been crunched by FSP support my idea
            > that it is
            > > the best. That said, I believe the FSP stands the best chance of
            > survival in
            > > Montana. I say that because I believe folks from cities could make
            > an easy
            > > transition. Idaho is a good state with good people, but there are
            > too many
            > > Mormons and too many on welfare. Don't misunderstand, I love
            > Mormons, but I
            > > believe when such a large mass of people can be influenced so
            > easily, it is
            > > dangerous. I also think that most farmers there are on some form of
            > farm aid
            > > (welfare) and would be very reluctant to give it up. If there are
            > only a few
            > > states I have ruled out, but I don't believe that they have much
            > chance of
            > > winning anyway. I strongly believe that the libertarian philosophy,
            > and
            > > self-sufficient stock of people in the western states make it a
            > better
            > > choice than the eastern states. I think the further we can get from
            > > Washington DC and the heavily populated metropolitan areas, the
            > better the
            > > long-term prospects for the FSP.
            > >
            > > Clair Wolf, Vin Suprinowitz, and JJ Johnson all did good articles
            > on the FSP
            > > conference in Montana last week. I hope you will read them. All of
            > them also
            > > favor a western state victory.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Fran Tully
            > > State Chair
            > > Libertarian Party of Utah
            > > 801-949-3570
            > >
            > >
            > > "In the long run, the greatest weapon of mass destruction is
            > stupidity."
            > >
            > > -- Thomas Sowell
            > >
            > > "...It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate,
            > > tireless
            > > minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds..."
            > >
            > > - Founding Father Samuel Adams
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