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consensus

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  • ftully
    I keep hearing about the need for a consensus. While I am passionate about a certain state, I agree that we need to figure out which states offer us the best
    Message 1 of 4 , Jun 17, 2003
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      I keep hearing about the need for a consensus. While I am passionate about a
      certain state, I agree that we need to figure out which states offer us the
      best odds for long term survival of the project. I read something in the
      Wyoming reports that I have not yet heard discussed in these forums:
      In report #2, the author discusses "groups that could work against freedom"
      The bottom line is that while the two most hotly debated states in the forum
      are MT and NH, one of those states (NH) has 22,000 Green Party members,
      60,000 labor union members, and 41% of their teachers in the NEA. The other
      state, (MT) has 24,000 Green Party members, 48,000 in labor unions, and 66%
      of it's teachers in the teacher's union. Both states have forced dues. Those
      numbers could greatly offset any efforts of the FSP.

      In addition, both of these states are already very close to the maximum
      number of residents threshold. If the FSP does not get 20,000 into these
      states in the next 5 years, will these states still fit the required
      profile? What will the numbers be in these states based on current growth?

      By contrast, of the 5 major indicators of "groups against", Wyoming rates -
      0 green party votes, 20,000 labor union, 38% NEA - with no forced dues, and
      the lowest percentage of the population in the top 3 religious groups for
      that state.

      I believe that this data is significant in making a decision. In addition,
      the state deficits of NH and MT have grown considerably while Wyoming's has
      remained the ONLY state in contention with a ZERO deficit.

      For these reasons and many others, Wyoming is looking like a strong leader
      on paper.


      http://www.freestateproject.org/wyoming2.htm
      http://w3.trib.com/~ccurley/fsp.html

      Fran Tully
      State Chair
      Libertarian Party of Utah
      801-949-3570
      ______
      "Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within
      limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within
      the law,' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it
      violates the rights of the individual."
      --Thomas Jefferson



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Craig Wright
      I totally agree with you. Green party members and labor union members could be a big hassle in accomplishing what we want to do. The main problem I see with
      Message 2 of 4 , Jun 17, 2003
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        I totally agree with you. Green party members and labor union members
        could be a big hassle in accomplishing what we want to do.

        The main problem I see with Wyoming though is that it has no
        international border, and for long-term viability it seems to me that
        this would be important. Maybe you can convince me otherwise though.
        Also Wyoming does have the largest number of government employees and
        less urbanization. It's economy is also questionable. These areas, of
        course, are where New Hampshire and Montana are stronger.

        It's a tough decision. :)

        -Craig.


        On Tuesday, June 17, 2003, at 01:49 AM, ftully wrote:

        > I keep hearing about the need for a consensus. While I am passionate
        > about a
        > certain state, I agree that we need to figure out which states offer
        > us the
        > best odds for long term survival of the project. I read something in
        > the
        > Wyoming reports that I have not yet heard discussed in these forums:
        > In report #2, the author discusses "groups that could work against
        > freedom"
        > The bottom line is that while the two most hotly debated states in the
        > forum
        > are MT and NH, one of those states (NH) has 22,000 Green Party members,
        > 60,000 labor union members, and 41% of their teachers in the NEA. The
        > other
        > state, (MT) has 24,000 Green Party members, 48,000 in labor unions,
        > and 66%
        > of it's teachers in the teacher's union. Both states have forced dues.
        > Those
        > numbers could greatly offset any efforts of the FSP.
        >
        > In addition, both of these states are already very close to the maximum
        > number of residents threshold. If the FSP does not get 20,000 into
        > these
        > states in the next 5 years, will these states still fit the required
        > profile? What will the numbers be in these states based on current
        > growth?
        >
        > By contrast, of the 5 major indicators of "groups against", Wyoming
        > rates -
        > 0 green party votes, 20,000 labor union, 38% NEA - with no forced
        > dues, and
        > the lowest percentage of the population in the top 3 religious groups
        > for
        > that state.
        >
        > I believe that this data is significant in making a decision. In
        > addition,
        > the state deficits of NH and MT have grown considerably while
        > Wyoming's has
        > remained the ONLY state in contention with a ZERO deficit.
        >
        > For these reasons and many others, Wyoming is looking like a strong
        > leader
        > on paper.
        >
        >
        > http://www.freestateproject.org/wyoming2.htm
        > http://w3.trib.com/~ccurley/fsp.html
        >
        > Fran Tully
        > State Chair
        > Libertarian Party of Utah
        > 801-949-3570
        > ______
        > "Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within
        > limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add
        > 'within
        > the law,' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so
        > when it
        > violates the rights of the individual."
        > --Thomas Jefferson
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        <image.tiff>
        >
        >
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        >
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      • maywood2008
        ... Yes, but a free state is not going to happen in a state where the federal government owns so much of the land. This is the real reason why Nevada is not on
        Message 3 of 4 , Jun 17, 2003
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          --- In fourcornersporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "ftully" <ftully@e...>
          wrote:
          >
          > For these reasons and many others, Wyoming is looking like a strong
          > leader on paper.

          Yes, but a free state is not going to happen in a state where the
          federal government owns so much of the land. This is the real reason
          why Nevada is not on the list at all.

          Fran - nice to see other LP officers around here. Hopefully we'll
          meet soon.

          David Euchner
          Chairman, Pima County Libertarian Party
          Assistant Treasurer, Arizona Libertarian Party
        • ftully
          ... international border, and for long-term viability it seems to me that this would be important. I am not convinced of this. There is a seaport in Idaho less
          Message 4 of 4 , Jun 18, 2003
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            >The main problem I see with Wyoming though is that it has no
            international border, and for long-term viability it seems to me that
            this would be important.

            I am not convinced of this. There is a seaport in Idaho less than a 200 mile
            drive. There are several airports. There are also ample natural resources. I
            am not convinced that an International border is that important.

            >Also Wyoming does have the largest number of government employees and
            less urbanization. It's economy is also questionable. These areas, of
            course, are where New Hampshire and Montana are stronger.

            Check out http://www.freestateproject.org/wyoming_20feb03.htm and
            http://www.geocities.com/freewyoming/WhyWyoming

            Fran Tully
            State Chair
            Libertarian Party of Utah
            801-949-3570
            ______
            "Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within
            limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within
            the law,' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it
            violates the rights of the individual."
            --Thomas Jefferson
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