Re: [fourcornersporcupines] Re: Attn: AZ Porcs
- On Saturday, May 3, 2003, at 09:39 PM, Matt Cheselka wrote:
> Thanks, Rick, for posting this. The past coupla days got away from meIt's likely if I move (I haven't joined yet) that it'll be before the
> but rest assured your note will go out tomorrow or Monday to all those
> AZers who said we could contact them.
> One subject I don't hear a lot about is the subject of moving. Since
> we're in AZ, we will obviously have to move. I personally don't care
> where we end up (of course I have my preferences, but as a board
> member I keep them private), as long as we can make it Free. But I'd
> like to hear from you all about your plans on making the actual move.
> How are you going to go about doing it? When will you do it -- right
> after the vote (probably going to occur in the fall), once we've
> reached 20,000, or within the 5 year time limit? I'd also like to
> hear about the mechanisms by which you'll make the move. Will you
> find a job first and then move? If you're married, will one of you
> move first to make all the necessary preparations? Will you buy
> acreage, or a house, or rent?
20,000 mark, but not immediately after the vote. My girlfriend has two
years of school left to get her nursing degree. Before moving I would
probably like to see one of us with a job. I'm a Computer Scientist so
it is likely that I'll have to be employed in an urban area.
I would like to see her employed and try to start a business of my own
when we get there, possibly as a consultant or a martial arts
instructor. It would be likely that we would rent at first to make sure
we like the place and to get used to the surroundings and understand
the real estate market. After that we'd probably look into buying a
house in an small urban or semi-urban area and maybe some rural
property as well.
I'm really hoping for New Hampshire for a variety of reasons. I think
that if the project is successful it'll be very important to have
access to the sea. That said, between Delaware, Alaska, and New
Hampshire our chances are probably best in New Hampshire given its
large state legislature and culture of Liberty. It is possible Wyoming
or some of the western states would work too, but the economies are
small and the land is vast, which makes it harder to communicate with
people directly. Land-locked states in my opinion don't bode well if
the project is successful because of the limitations they impose on
trade and the difficultly in creating a vibrant economy in them.
That's my two cents. :)
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- --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "Matt Cheselka"
> Thanks, Rick, for posting this. The past coupla days got away fromme
> but rest assured your note will go out tomorrow or Monday to allthose
> AZers who said we could contact them.Since
> One subject I don't hear a lot about is the subject of moving.
> we're in AZ, we will obviously have to move.Personally, I think about this aspect of the project the most. I
love living in AZ, and am not particularly fond of the idea of moving
right now. I think we will wait and move sometime after the vote,
and probably closer to the 5 year deadline. My husband is self-
employed, and I am a hospital worker, so we both could pretty much
live anywhere we choose within whatever state is chosen, so that
would definitely ease the burden of moving on us.
We would almost certainly buy property, and are even entertaining the
idea of dual residences so that we could keep property here as well.
I have even entertained the idea of being a part-time agency worker
in both states.
I'm pretty neutral as to which state will be chosen, although I have
opted-out of Alaska and N. Dakota, although if either were chosen, I
would probably reconsider.
I'd be interested in a local convention to meet other members. I
think it would be a great support mechanism for when the time to move
> I'm pretty neutral as to which state will be chosen, although I haveHere's another issue that I've struggled with since the beginning. If
> opted-out of Alaska and N. Dakota, although if either were chosen, I
> would probably reconsider.
we assume that we're all very strong individualists (I certainly
consider myself one), how can we accept the decision of a collective
majority to choose where were live? I do this in the following way:
I think about what I want. Well, I want to be free and I want to be
left alone. Can I do this myself? Well, not really. In the current
system, there's always some kind of bother (both government in terms
of silly laws and regulations, and neighbors in terms of telling me
what color my house is suppose to be, what animals I keep, what I do
with my propery, etc.). However, if I could surround myself with
like-minded people (we all want to be left alone), then I'd be in a
great situation. So if I can figure out a way to accomplish this, I'm
gonna do it. So I actually don't see it as giving in the collective
majority, but rather finding a location on this planet where I can do
what I want and know I won't be bothered unless I'm being in some way
violent to my neighbors.
> I'd be interested in a local convention to meet other members. IWell, this is what Rick is working on. I'm leaving it up to him and
> think it would be a great support mechanism for when the time the
> move does come.
any of you to organize this, but I'll offer any kind of support I can
in terms of logistics, phone calls, setting up a web page on the FSP
server, etc. I suggested to Rick that we might have two meetings.
One for "northerners" (Phoenix and above) and one for "southerners"
(below Phoenix). The two groups would of course be invited to each
other's, of course. I'm suggesting this mainly for selfish reasons
becuase I'd have a hard time getting up to Phoenix in terms of time
(it's a 3 hour drive from where I am one-way -- that's 6 hours of
driving for a 1-2 event!!). I'm trying to grow a start-up company and
with all new babies this one needs 15000% of my attention for the
forseeable future. Anyhow, just an idea to consider.
- Mr. Marshall,
Thank you for your response.
No-one ever proposed a special "list" of attendees for the AZ event, and
none is being kept except on my own Microsoft Outlook contact list. I
comply with the FSP's policy of complete privacy when it comes to
contacting and sharing information about the membership.
As I would like this to be planned and operated as a somewhat
professional event, I simply cannot make a post to a few dozen lists and
hope that people show up. Also, I'd rather not flood the current lists
with posts concerning this event which people (as in the case of this
list) from NM, UT, and CO could really give a hoot about. On the other
hand, those who are inclined to just "show up" will be more than welcome
should they choose to do so.
In the interest of planning, those who wish to attend in an official
capacity can contact me directly at either rick@... or at
(520)903-0500. You confidentiality is assured.
Mr. Cheselka has already suggested two meetings, one for Northern AZ,
and one for Southern AZ.
This may well be the best solution, but like Matt I have other
responsibilities which will make organizing two such separate events an
impossibility. I'm committed to organizing one, and since I'm in Tucson
I'll take the Southern one. If someone from the Phoenix area would like
to aid in this effort by volunteering to work with me on making this a
joint North/South statewide event at separate locations, please step up.
If not, I offer Matt and two others from southern AZ a ride. ;)
From: Willy Star Marshall [mailto:willystarman@...]
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 8:31 PM
Subject: Fwd: [fourcornersporcupines] Attn: AZ Porcs
Sure, keep me posted. But I don't see any need to have a special list
of people who want to gather. Just decide when and where you want to do
it and invite everyone on the list to come.
- I'd like to get together with my fellow Porcupines.
Any time before the 21st of June is fine, I'll be
travelling after that.
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
- --- In email@example.com, "Rick LaPoint"
>If there is anything I've learned since moving to Arizona, it is that
> This may well be the best solution, but like Matt I have other
> responsibilities which will make organizing two such separate
> events an impossibility. I'm committed to organizing one, and since
> I'm in Tucson I'll take the Southern one. If someone from the
> Phoenix area would like to aid in this effort by volunteering to
> work with me on making this a joint North/South statewide event at
> separate locations, please step up.
people in northern Arizona do not want to be blended in with
I am spread out pretty thin with LP stuff to volunteer. However, the
Pima County LP meetings are open to any FSP members who want to make
a short presentation and pitch. I made the offer to Matt a few months
ago, but anyone else is welcome to accept it as well.
I also recommend going to the local objectivist groups. I gave
Elizabeth the contact info she needed to go to the Boston Objectivist
meeting a few months back and she was a big hit with them. I know a
lot of O'ists in Tucson & Phoenix are interested in FSP and
presentations should be made to these groups as well.
I'm self-employed and my wife is a hospital worker so we're pretty
flexible as to where we move. But I have always had a soft place in
my heart for New Hampshire, and I will probably refuse to move
anyplace but northern New England. North Dakota is OUT. Delaware is
Chairman, Pima County Libertarian Party
Assistant Treasurer, Arizona Libertarian Party