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Re: [fourcornersporcupines] Re: Attn: AZ Porcs

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  • Craig Wright
    ... It s likely if I move (I haven t joined yet) that it ll be before the 20,000 mark, but not immediately after the vote. My girlfriend has two years of
    Message 1 of 10 , May 4, 2003
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      On Saturday, May 3, 2003, at 09:39 PM, Matt Cheselka wrote:

      > Thanks, Rick, for posting this.  The past coupla days got away from me
      > but rest assured your note will go out tomorrow or Monday to all those
      > AZers who said we could contact them.
      >
      > One subject I don't hear a lot about is the subject of moving.  Since
      > we're in AZ, we will obviously have to move.  I personally don't care
      > where we end up (of course I have my preferences, but as a board
      > member I keep them private), as long as we can make it Free.  But I'd
      > like to hear from you all about your plans on making the actual move.
      > How are you going to go about doing it?  When will you do it -- right
      > after the vote (probably going to occur in the fall), once we've
      > reached 20,000, or within the 5 year time limit?  I'd also like to
      > hear about the mechanisms by which you'll make the move.  Will you
      > find a job first and then move?  If you're married, will one of you
      > move first to make all the necessary preparations?  Will you buy
      > acreage, or a house, or rent?


      It's likely if I move (I haven't joined yet) that it'll be before the
      20,000 mark, but not immediately after the vote. My girlfriend has two
      years of school left to get her nursing degree. Before moving I would
      probably like to see one of us with a job. I'm a Computer Scientist so
      it is likely that I'll have to be employed in an urban area.

      I would like to see her employed and try to start a business of my own
      when we get there, possibly as a consultant or a martial arts
      instructor. It would be likely that we would rent at first to make sure
      we like the place and to get used to the surroundings and understand
      the real estate market. After that we'd probably look into buying a
      house in an small urban or semi-urban area and maybe some rural
      property as well.

      I'm really hoping for New Hampshire for a variety of reasons. I think
      that if the project is successful it'll be very important to have
      access to the sea. That said, between Delaware, Alaska, and New
      Hampshire our chances are probably best in New Hampshire given its
      large state legislature and culture of Liberty. It is possible Wyoming
      or some of the western states would work too, but the economies are
      small and the land is vast, which makes it harder to communicate with
      people directly. Land-locked states in my opinion don't bode well if
      the project is successful because of the limitations they impose on
      trade and the difficultly in creating a vibrant economy in them.

      That's my two cents. :)

      -Craig.



      >
      > Just a reminder also to keep up with the latest news on our website:
      >
      > http://www.freestateproject.org
      >
      > Also, feel free to participate in our Forum:
      >
      > http://forum.freestateproject.org
      >
      > and our Yahoo discussion group:
      >
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject
      >
      > Talk to you all later,
      >
      > Matt
      >
      >
      >
      <image.tiff>
      >
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    • Jessica Stealey
      ... me ... those ... Since ... Personally, I think about this aspect of the project the most. I love living in AZ, and am not particularly fond of the idea of
      Message 2 of 10 , May 4, 2003
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        --- In fourcornersporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "Matt Cheselka"
        <cheselka@m...> wrote:
        > Thanks, Rick, for posting this. The past coupla days got away from
        me
        > but rest assured your note will go out tomorrow or Monday to all
        those
        > AZers who said we could contact them.
        >
        > One subject I don't hear a lot about is the subject of moving.
        Since
        > we're in AZ, we will obviously have to move.

        Personally, I think about this aspect of the project the most. I
        love living in AZ, and am not particularly fond of the idea of moving
        right now. I think we will wait and move sometime after the vote,
        and probably closer to the 5 year deadline. My husband is self-
        employed, and I am a hospital worker, so we both could pretty much
        live anywhere we choose within whatever state is chosen, so that
        would definitely ease the burden of moving on us.

        We would almost certainly buy property, and are even entertaining the
        idea of dual residences so that we could keep property here as well.
        I have even entertained the idea of being a part-time agency worker
        in both states.

        I'm pretty neutral as to which state will be chosen, although I have
        opted-out of Alaska and N. Dakota, although if either were chosen, I
        would probably reconsider.

        I'd be interested in a local convention to meet other members. I
        think it would be a great support mechanism for when the time to move
        does come.
      • Matt Cheselka
        ... Here s another issue that I ve struggled with since the beginning. If we assume that we re all very strong individualists (I certainly consider myself
        Message 3 of 10 , May 4, 2003
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          > I'm pretty neutral as to which state will be chosen, although I have
          > opted-out of Alaska and N. Dakota, although if either were chosen, I
          > would probably reconsider.
          >

          Here's another issue that I've struggled with since the beginning. If
          we assume that we're all very strong individualists (I certainly
          consider myself one), how can we accept the decision of a collective
          majority to choose where were live? I do this in the following way:

          I think about what I want. Well, I want to be free and I want to be
          left alone. Can I do this myself? Well, not really. In the current
          system, there's always some kind of bother (both government in terms
          of silly laws and regulations, and neighbors in terms of telling me
          what color my house is suppose to be, what animals I keep, what I do
          with my propery, etc.). However, if I could surround myself with
          like-minded people (we all want to be left alone), then I'd be in a
          great situation. So if I can figure out a way to accomplish this, I'm
          gonna do it. So I actually don't see it as giving in the collective
          majority, but rather finding a location on this planet where I can do
          what I want and know I won't be bothered unless I'm being in some way
          violent to my neighbors.

          > I'd be interested in a local convention to meet other members. I
          > think it would be a great support mechanism for when the time the
          > move does come.

          Well, this is what Rick is working on. I'm leaving it up to him and
          any of you to organize this, but I'll offer any kind of support I can
          in terms of logistics, phone calls, setting up a web page on the FSP
          server, etc. I suggested to Rick that we might have two meetings.
          One for "northerners" (Phoenix and above) and one for "southerners"
          (below Phoenix). The two groups would of course be invited to each
          other's, of course. I'm suggesting this mainly for selfish reasons
          becuase I'd have a hard time getting up to Phoenix in terms of time
          (it's a 3 hour drive from where I am one-way -- that's 6 hours of
          driving for a 1-2 event!!). I'm trying to grow a start-up company and
          with all new babies this one needs 15000% of my attention for the
          forseeable future. Anyhow, just an idea to consider.

          G'night,

          Matt
        • Rick LaPoint
          Mr. Marshall, Thank you for your response. No-one ever proposed a special list of attendees for the AZ event, and none is being kept except on my own
          Message 4 of 10 , May 4, 2003
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            Mr. Marshall,

            Thank you for your response.

            No-one ever proposed a special "list" of attendees for the AZ event, and
            none is being kept except on my own Microsoft Outlook contact list. I
            comply with the FSP's policy of complete privacy when it comes to
            contacting and sharing information about the membership.

            As I would like this to be planned and operated as a somewhat
            professional event, I simply cannot make a post to a few dozen lists and
            hope that people show up. Also, I'd rather not flood the current lists
            with posts concerning this event which people (as in the case of this
            list) from NM, UT, and CO could really give a hoot about. On the other
            hand, those who are inclined to just "show up" will be more than welcome
            should they choose to do so.

            In the interest of planning, those who wish to attend in an official
            capacity can contact me directly at either rick@... or at
            (520)903-0500. You confidentiality is assured.

            Mr. Cheselka has already suggested two meetings, one for Northern AZ,
            and one for Southern AZ.

            This may well be the best solution, but like Matt I have other
            responsibilities which will make organizing two such separate events an
            impossibility. I'm committed to organizing one, and since I'm in Tucson
            I'll take the Southern one. If someone from the Phoenix area would like
            to aid in this effort by volunteering to work with me on making this a
            joint North/South statewide event at separate locations, please step up.

            If not, I offer Matt and two others from southern AZ a ride. ;)

            Regards,

            rick







            -----Original Message-----
            From: Willy Star Marshall [mailto:willystarman@...]
            Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 8:31 PM
            To: rick@...
            Subject: Fwd: [fourcornersporcupines] Attn: AZ Porcs

            Sure, keep me posted.  But I don't see any need to have a special list
            of people who want to gather.  Just decide when and where you want to do
            it and invite everyone on the list to come.
          • John Stephens
            I d like to get together with my fellow Porcupines. Any time before the 21st of June is fine, I ll be travelling after that. John
            Message 5 of 10 , May 5, 2003
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              I'd like to get together with my fellow Porcupines.
              Any time before the 21st of June is fine, I'll be
              travelling after that.

              John


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            • maywood2008
              ... If there is anything I ve learned since moving to Arizona, it is that people in northern Arizona do not want to be blended in with Phoenix :-) I am spread
              Message 6 of 10 , May 5, 2003
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                --- In fourcornersporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "Rick LaPoint"
                <rick@o...> wrote:
                >
                > This may well be the best solution, but like Matt I have other
                > responsibilities which will make organizing two such separate
                > events an impossibility. I'm committed to organizing one, and since
                > I'm in Tucson I'll take the Southern one. If someone from the
                > Phoenix area would like to aid in this effort by volunteering to
                > work with me on making this a joint North/South statewide event at
                > separate locations, please step up.

                If there is anything I've learned since moving to Arizona, it is that
                people in northern Arizona do not want to be blended in with
                Phoenix :-)

                I am spread out pretty thin with LP stuff to volunteer. However, the
                Pima County LP meetings are open to any FSP members who want to make
                a short presentation and pitch. I made the offer to Matt a few months
                ago, but anyone else is welcome to accept it as well.

                I also recommend going to the local objectivist groups. I gave
                Elizabeth the contact info she needed to go to the Boston Objectivist
                meeting a few months back and she was a big hit with them. I know a
                lot of O'ists in Tucson & Phoenix are interested in FSP and
                presentations should be made to these groups as well.

                I'm self-employed and my wife is a hospital worker so we're pretty
                flexible as to where we move. But I have always had a soft place in
                my heart for New Hampshire, and I will probably refuse to move
                anyplace but northern New England. North Dakota is OUT. Delaware is
                OUT.

                David Euchner
                Chairman, Pima County Libertarian Party
                Assistant Treasurer, Arizona Libertarian Party
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