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Re: [fourcornersporcupines] Re: Attn: AZ Porcs

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  • Wayne Baimbridge
    Rick: At this writing, I can honestly say that I haven t given much thought to the actual move. Naturally it will depend on what state winds up being the FS
    Message 1 of 10 , May 3, 2003
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      Rick:

      At this writing, I can honestly say that I haven't given much thought to the actual move. Naturally it will depend on what state winds up being the FS target. Once a state has been selected, I intend to educate myself on the demographics of various cities to explore the place in that state best suited for my particular concerns. Hopefully by the time the move takes place, my presence at the office (I'm one of the owners) will not be required full time, and I will be in a position to move without the worry of needing to generate an income to sustain myself. My house will be paid off by then, I have all the equity in it and a reasonable nest egg and seed money put away for investment and or a startup of some kind. Assuming that property in the chosen state is relatively cheaper than here in California, I should be able to purchase property from proceeds of my house sale.

      I am developing a multi-media division of my business, and because global communications are what they are, it is quite possible that by the time the move takes place, I will be able to do that work anywhere in the country and only have to visit clients rarely, (and at their expense). Communicating via conference calls and streaming video media will most likely be the method of contact at that time. In any case, work isn't as big a concern to me as it might be for others.

      As far as planning the actual move goes. My kids are out of the house, and should be either out (or nearly out) of college by the time the move actually takes place. While my wife hasn't voiced an objection to a move, I've learned after 19 years that could change on the day I turn the key to the ignition to pull out of the driveway. So, assuming she doesn't panic in the final moments I presume she will take a leading role in organizing our move. At this point it's so new, she's not really giving it much thought, but I'm talking about it regularly so she knows it's not a passing fancy of mine. Of course, if she gets cold feet, I will not leave her behind, ;-)

      I'll be happy to post more thoughts on the subject and detail actual planning activities as time goes on.

      Best regards,

      Wayne Baimbridge
      wayne@...



      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Matt Cheselka
      To: fourcornersporcupines@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 8:39 PM
      Subject: [fourcornersporcupines] Re: Attn: AZ Porcs


      Thanks, Rick, for posting this. The past coupla days got away from me
      but rest assured your note will go out tomorrow or Monday to all those
      AZers who said we could contact them.

      One subject I don't hear a lot about is the subject of moving. Since
      we're in AZ, we will obviously have to move. I personally don't care
      where we end up (of course I have my preferences, but as a board
      member I keep them private), as long as we can make it Free. But I'd
      like to hear from you all about your plans on making the actual move.
      How are you going to go about doing it? When will you do it -- right
      after the vote (probably going to occur in the fall), once we've
      reached 20,000, or within the 5 year time limit? I'd also like to
      hear about the mechanisms by which you'll make the move. Will you
      find a job first and then move? If you're married, will one of you
      move first to make all the necessary preparations? Will you buy
      acreage, or a house, or rent?

      Just a reminder also to keep up with the latest news on our website:

      http://www.freestateproject.org

      Also, feel free to participate in our Forum:

      http://forum.freestateproject.org

      and our Yahoo discussion group:

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject

      Talk to you all later,

      Matt



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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Rick LaPoint
      Being from New Hampshire, I chose only the Eastern States when signing up for the FSP. I guess that leaves me at an advantage, as I have a pretty good grasp on
      Message 2 of 10 , May 3, 2003
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        Being from New Hampshire, I chose only the Eastern States when signing
        up for the FSP. I guess that leaves me at an advantage, as I have a
        pretty good grasp on the geography back there. I can only speak for my
        own situation, but I am in a position to leave any time I wish.

        I am also in a position to move my personal business any time I wish.
        I'll hold out until I secure a position with a stable income before
        moving though.

        rick

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Wayne Baimbridge [mailto:wayne@...]
        Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 9:08 PM
        To: fourcornersporcupines@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [fourcornersporcupines] Re: Attn: AZ Porcs

        Rick:

        At this writing, I can honestly say that I haven't given much thought to
        the actual move. Naturally it will depend on what state winds up being
        the FS target. Once a state has been selected, I intend to educate
        myself on the demographics of various cities to explore the place in
        that state best suited for my particular concerns. Hopefully by the
        time the move takes place, my presence at the office (I'm one of the
        owners) will not be required full time, and I will be in a position to
        move without the worry of needing to generate an income to sustain
        myself. My house will be paid off by then, I have all the equity in it
        and a reasonable nest egg and seed money put away for investment and or
        a startup of some kind. Assuming that property in the chosen state is
        relatively cheaper than here in California, I should be able to purchase
        property from proceeds of my house sale.

        I am developing a multi-media division of my business, and because
        global communications are what they are, it is quite possible that by
        the time the move takes place, I will be able to do that work anywhere
        in the country and only have to visit clients rarely, (and at their
        expense). Communicating via conference calls and streaming video media
        will most likely be the method of contact at that time. In any case,
        work isn't as big a concern to me as it might be for others.

        As far as planning the actual move goes. My kids are out of the house,
        and should be either out (or nearly out) of college by the time the move
        actually takes place. While my wife hasn't voiced an objection to a
        move, I've learned after 19 years that could change on the day I turn
        the key to the ignition to pull out of the driveway. So, assuming she
        doesn't panic in the final moments I presume she will take a leading
        role in organizing our move. At this point it's so new, she's not
        really giving it much thought, but I'm talking about it regularly so she
        knows it's not a passing fancy of mine. Of course, if she gets cold
        feet, I will not leave her behind, ;-)

        I'll be happy to post more thoughts on the subject and detail actual
        planning activities as time goes on.

        Best regards,

        Wayne Baimbridge
        wayne@...



        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Matt Cheselka
        To: fourcornersporcupines@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 8:39 PM
        Subject: [fourcornersporcupines] Re: Attn: AZ Porcs


        Thanks, Rick, for posting this. The past coupla days got away from me
        but rest assured your note will go out tomorrow or Monday to all those
        AZers who said we could contact them.

        One subject I don't hear a lot about is the subject of moving. Since
        we're in AZ, we will obviously have to move. I personally don't care
        where we end up (of course I have my preferences, but as a board
        member I keep them private), as long as we can make it Free. But I'd
        like to hear from you all about your plans on making the actual move.
        How are you going to go about doing it? When will you do it -- right
        after the vote (probably going to occur in the fall), once we've
        reached 20,000, or within the 5 year time limit? I'd also like to
        hear about the mechanisms by which you'll make the move. Will you
        find a job first and then move? If you're married, will one of you
        move first to make all the necessary preparations? Will you buy
        acreage, or a house, or rent?

        Just a reminder also to keep up with the latest news on our website:

        http://www.freestateproject.org

        Also, feel free to participate in our Forum:

        http://forum.freestateproject.org

        and our Yahoo discussion group:

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject

        Talk to you all later,

        Matt



        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        fourcornersporcupines-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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      • Craig Wright
        ... It s likely if I move (I haven t joined yet) that it ll be before the 20,000 mark, but not immediately after the vote. My girlfriend has two years of
        Message 3 of 10 , May 4, 2003
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          On Saturday, May 3, 2003, at 09:39 PM, Matt Cheselka wrote:

          > Thanks, Rick, for posting this.  The past coupla days got away from me
          > but rest assured your note will go out tomorrow or Monday to all those
          > AZers who said we could contact them.
          >
          > One subject I don't hear a lot about is the subject of moving.  Since
          > we're in AZ, we will obviously have to move.  I personally don't care
          > where we end up (of course I have my preferences, but as a board
          > member I keep them private), as long as we can make it Free.  But I'd
          > like to hear from you all about your plans on making the actual move.
          > How are you going to go about doing it?  When will you do it -- right
          > after the vote (probably going to occur in the fall), once we've
          > reached 20,000, or within the 5 year time limit?  I'd also like to
          > hear about the mechanisms by which you'll make the move.  Will you
          > find a job first and then move?  If you're married, will one of you
          > move first to make all the necessary preparations?  Will you buy
          > acreage, or a house, or rent?


          It's likely if I move (I haven't joined yet) that it'll be before the
          20,000 mark, but not immediately after the vote. My girlfriend has two
          years of school left to get her nursing degree. Before moving I would
          probably like to see one of us with a job. I'm a Computer Scientist so
          it is likely that I'll have to be employed in an urban area.

          I would like to see her employed and try to start a business of my own
          when we get there, possibly as a consultant or a martial arts
          instructor. It would be likely that we would rent at first to make sure
          we like the place and to get used to the surroundings and understand
          the real estate market. After that we'd probably look into buying a
          house in an small urban or semi-urban area and maybe some rural
          property as well.

          I'm really hoping for New Hampshire for a variety of reasons. I think
          that if the project is successful it'll be very important to have
          access to the sea. That said, between Delaware, Alaska, and New
          Hampshire our chances are probably best in New Hampshire given its
          large state legislature and culture of Liberty. It is possible Wyoming
          or some of the western states would work too, but the economies are
          small and the land is vast, which makes it harder to communicate with
          people directly. Land-locked states in my opinion don't bode well if
          the project is successful because of the limitations they impose on
          trade and the difficultly in creating a vibrant economy in them.

          That's my two cents. :)

          -Craig.



          >
          > Just a reminder also to keep up with the latest news on our website:
          >
          > http://www.freestateproject.org
          >
          > Also, feel free to participate in our Forum:
          >
          > http://forum.freestateproject.org
          >
          > and our Yahoo discussion group:
          >
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject
          >
          > Talk to you all later,
          >
          > Matt
          >
          >
          >
          <image.tiff>
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > fourcornersporcupines-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        • Jessica Stealey
          ... me ... those ... Since ... Personally, I think about this aspect of the project the most. I love living in AZ, and am not particularly fond of the idea of
          Message 4 of 10 , May 4, 2003
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            --- In fourcornersporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "Matt Cheselka"
            <cheselka@m...> wrote:
            > Thanks, Rick, for posting this. The past coupla days got away from
            me
            > but rest assured your note will go out tomorrow or Monday to all
            those
            > AZers who said we could contact them.
            >
            > One subject I don't hear a lot about is the subject of moving.
            Since
            > we're in AZ, we will obviously have to move.

            Personally, I think about this aspect of the project the most. I
            love living in AZ, and am not particularly fond of the idea of moving
            right now. I think we will wait and move sometime after the vote,
            and probably closer to the 5 year deadline. My husband is self-
            employed, and I am a hospital worker, so we both could pretty much
            live anywhere we choose within whatever state is chosen, so that
            would definitely ease the burden of moving on us.

            We would almost certainly buy property, and are even entertaining the
            idea of dual residences so that we could keep property here as well.
            I have even entertained the idea of being a part-time agency worker
            in both states.

            I'm pretty neutral as to which state will be chosen, although I have
            opted-out of Alaska and N. Dakota, although if either were chosen, I
            would probably reconsider.

            I'd be interested in a local convention to meet other members. I
            think it would be a great support mechanism for when the time to move
            does come.
          • Matt Cheselka
            ... Here s another issue that I ve struggled with since the beginning. If we assume that we re all very strong individualists (I certainly consider myself
            Message 5 of 10 , May 4, 2003
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              > I'm pretty neutral as to which state will be chosen, although I have
              > opted-out of Alaska and N. Dakota, although if either were chosen, I
              > would probably reconsider.
              >

              Here's another issue that I've struggled with since the beginning. If
              we assume that we're all very strong individualists (I certainly
              consider myself one), how can we accept the decision of a collective
              majority to choose where were live? I do this in the following way:

              I think about what I want. Well, I want to be free and I want to be
              left alone. Can I do this myself? Well, not really. In the current
              system, there's always some kind of bother (both government in terms
              of silly laws and regulations, and neighbors in terms of telling me
              what color my house is suppose to be, what animals I keep, what I do
              with my propery, etc.). However, if I could surround myself with
              like-minded people (we all want to be left alone), then I'd be in a
              great situation. So if I can figure out a way to accomplish this, I'm
              gonna do it. So I actually don't see it as giving in the collective
              majority, but rather finding a location on this planet where I can do
              what I want and know I won't be bothered unless I'm being in some way
              violent to my neighbors.

              > I'd be interested in a local convention to meet other members. I
              > think it would be a great support mechanism for when the time the
              > move does come.

              Well, this is what Rick is working on. I'm leaving it up to him and
              any of you to organize this, but I'll offer any kind of support I can
              in terms of logistics, phone calls, setting up a web page on the FSP
              server, etc. I suggested to Rick that we might have two meetings.
              One for "northerners" (Phoenix and above) and one for "southerners"
              (below Phoenix). The two groups would of course be invited to each
              other's, of course. I'm suggesting this mainly for selfish reasons
              becuase I'd have a hard time getting up to Phoenix in terms of time
              (it's a 3 hour drive from where I am one-way -- that's 6 hours of
              driving for a 1-2 event!!). I'm trying to grow a start-up company and
              with all new babies this one needs 15000% of my attention for the
              forseeable future. Anyhow, just an idea to consider.

              G'night,

              Matt
            • Rick LaPoint
              Mr. Marshall, Thank you for your response. No-one ever proposed a special list of attendees for the AZ event, and none is being kept except on my own
              Message 6 of 10 , May 4, 2003
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                Mr. Marshall,

                Thank you for your response.

                No-one ever proposed a special "list" of attendees for the AZ event, and
                none is being kept except on my own Microsoft Outlook contact list. I
                comply with the FSP's policy of complete privacy when it comes to
                contacting and sharing information about the membership.

                As I would like this to be planned and operated as a somewhat
                professional event, I simply cannot make a post to a few dozen lists and
                hope that people show up. Also, I'd rather not flood the current lists
                with posts concerning this event which people (as in the case of this
                list) from NM, UT, and CO could really give a hoot about. On the other
                hand, those who are inclined to just "show up" will be more than welcome
                should they choose to do so.

                In the interest of planning, those who wish to attend in an official
                capacity can contact me directly at either rick@... or at
                (520)903-0500. You confidentiality is assured.

                Mr. Cheselka has already suggested two meetings, one for Northern AZ,
                and one for Southern AZ.

                This may well be the best solution, but like Matt I have other
                responsibilities which will make organizing two such separate events an
                impossibility. I'm committed to organizing one, and since I'm in Tucson
                I'll take the Southern one. If someone from the Phoenix area would like
                to aid in this effort by volunteering to work with me on making this a
                joint North/South statewide event at separate locations, please step up.

                If not, I offer Matt and two others from southern AZ a ride. ;)

                Regards,

                rick







                -----Original Message-----
                From: Willy Star Marshall [mailto:willystarman@...]
                Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 8:31 PM
                To: rick@...
                Subject: Fwd: [fourcornersporcupines] Attn: AZ Porcs

                Sure, keep me posted.  But I don't see any need to have a special list
                of people who want to gather.  Just decide when and where you want to do
                it and invite everyone on the list to come.
              • John Stephens
                I d like to get together with my fellow Porcupines. Any time before the 21st of June is fine, I ll be travelling after that. John
                Message 7 of 10 , May 5, 2003
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                  I'd like to get together with my fellow Porcupines.
                  Any time before the 21st of June is fine, I'll be
                  travelling after that.

                  John


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                • maywood2008
                  ... If there is anything I ve learned since moving to Arizona, it is that people in northern Arizona do not want to be blended in with Phoenix :-) I am spread
                  Message 8 of 10 , May 5, 2003
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                    --- In fourcornersporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "Rick LaPoint"
                    <rick@o...> wrote:
                    >
                    > This may well be the best solution, but like Matt I have other
                    > responsibilities which will make organizing two such separate
                    > events an impossibility. I'm committed to organizing one, and since
                    > I'm in Tucson I'll take the Southern one. If someone from the
                    > Phoenix area would like to aid in this effort by volunteering to
                    > work with me on making this a joint North/South statewide event at
                    > separate locations, please step up.

                    If there is anything I've learned since moving to Arizona, it is that
                    people in northern Arizona do not want to be blended in with
                    Phoenix :-)

                    I am spread out pretty thin with LP stuff to volunteer. However, the
                    Pima County LP meetings are open to any FSP members who want to make
                    a short presentation and pitch. I made the offer to Matt a few months
                    ago, but anyone else is welcome to accept it as well.

                    I also recommend going to the local objectivist groups. I gave
                    Elizabeth the contact info she needed to go to the Boston Objectivist
                    meeting a few months back and she was a big hit with them. I know a
                    lot of O'ists in Tucson & Phoenix are interested in FSP and
                    presentations should be made to these groups as well.

                    I'm self-employed and my wife is a hospital worker so we're pretty
                    flexible as to where we move. But I have always had a soft place in
                    my heart for New Hampshire, and I will probably refuse to move
                    anyplace but northern New England. North Dakota is OUT. Delaware is
                    OUT.

                    David Euchner
                    Chairman, Pima County Libertarian Party
                    Assistant Treasurer, Arizona Libertarian Party
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