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Attn: AZ Porcs

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  • Rick LaPoint
    Fellow AZ Porcupines, As the FSP enrollment approaches the voting level, I was wondering if there would be any interest amongst the current FSP-AZ membership
    Message 1 of 10 , May 3, 2003
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      Fellow AZ Porcupines,

      As the FSP enrollment approaches the voting level, I was wondering if
      there would be any interest amongst the current FSP-AZ membership in an
      AZ Porcupine Conference. Possible topics for discussion could be
      publicity efforts, State selection, and whatever else the membership
      would like to discuss. I propose a Saturday at noon in approximately six
      weeks, to be held in Phoenix or somewhere else centrally located. I'm
      open to suggestions as far as a venue is concerned, and any input you
      have would be most appreciated.

      Please let me know as soon as possible if you are interested in
      gathering together by e-mailing me at rick@... or calling me
      at the number below.

      Thank you very much for your time, and I look forward to hearing from
      you!

      Regards,

      Rick LaPoint
      1711 N. 6th Ave
      Tucson, AZ 85705
      (520)903-0500
      rick@...
    • Matt Cheselka
      Thanks, Rick, for posting this. The past coupla days got away from me but rest assured your note will go out tomorrow or Monday to all those AZers who said we
      Message 2 of 10 , May 3, 2003
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        Thanks, Rick, for posting this. The past coupla days got away from me
        but rest assured your note will go out tomorrow or Monday to all those
        AZers who said we could contact them.

        One subject I don't hear a lot about is the subject of moving. Since
        we're in AZ, we will obviously have to move. I personally don't care
        where we end up (of course I have my preferences, but as a board
        member I keep them private), as long as we can make it Free. But I'd
        like to hear from you all about your plans on making the actual move.
        How are you going to go about doing it? When will you do it -- right
        after the vote (probably going to occur in the fall), once we've
        reached 20,000, or within the 5 year time limit? I'd also like to
        hear about the mechanisms by which you'll make the move. Will you
        find a job first and then move? If you're married, will one of you
        move first to make all the necessary preparations? Will you buy
        acreage, or a house, or rent?

        Just a reminder also to keep up with the latest news on our website:

        http://www.freestateproject.org

        Also, feel free to participate in our Forum:

        http://forum.freestateproject.org

        and our Yahoo discussion group:

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject

        Talk to you all later,

        Matt
      • Wayne Baimbridge
        Rick: At this writing, I can honestly say that I haven t given much thought to the actual move. Naturally it will depend on what state winds up being the FS
        Message 3 of 10 , May 3, 2003
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          Rick:

          At this writing, I can honestly say that I haven't given much thought to the actual move. Naturally it will depend on what state winds up being the FS target. Once a state has been selected, I intend to educate myself on the demographics of various cities to explore the place in that state best suited for my particular concerns. Hopefully by the time the move takes place, my presence at the office (I'm one of the owners) will not be required full time, and I will be in a position to move without the worry of needing to generate an income to sustain myself. My house will be paid off by then, I have all the equity in it and a reasonable nest egg and seed money put away for investment and or a startup of some kind. Assuming that property in the chosen state is relatively cheaper than here in California, I should be able to purchase property from proceeds of my house sale.

          I am developing a multi-media division of my business, and because global communications are what they are, it is quite possible that by the time the move takes place, I will be able to do that work anywhere in the country and only have to visit clients rarely, (and at their expense). Communicating via conference calls and streaming video media will most likely be the method of contact at that time. In any case, work isn't as big a concern to me as it might be for others.

          As far as planning the actual move goes. My kids are out of the house, and should be either out (or nearly out) of college by the time the move actually takes place. While my wife hasn't voiced an objection to a move, I've learned after 19 years that could change on the day I turn the key to the ignition to pull out of the driveway. So, assuming she doesn't panic in the final moments I presume she will take a leading role in organizing our move. At this point it's so new, she's not really giving it much thought, but I'm talking about it regularly so she knows it's not a passing fancy of mine. Of course, if she gets cold feet, I will not leave her behind, ;-)

          I'll be happy to post more thoughts on the subject and detail actual planning activities as time goes on.

          Best regards,

          Wayne Baimbridge
          wayne@...



          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Matt Cheselka
          To: fourcornersporcupines@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 8:39 PM
          Subject: [fourcornersporcupines] Re: Attn: AZ Porcs


          Thanks, Rick, for posting this. The past coupla days got away from me
          but rest assured your note will go out tomorrow or Monday to all those
          AZers who said we could contact them.

          One subject I don't hear a lot about is the subject of moving. Since
          we're in AZ, we will obviously have to move. I personally don't care
          where we end up (of course I have my preferences, but as a board
          member I keep them private), as long as we can make it Free. But I'd
          like to hear from you all about your plans on making the actual move.
          How are you going to go about doing it? When will you do it -- right
          after the vote (probably going to occur in the fall), once we've
          reached 20,000, or within the 5 year time limit? I'd also like to
          hear about the mechanisms by which you'll make the move. Will you
          find a job first and then move? If you're married, will one of you
          move first to make all the necessary preparations? Will you buy
          acreage, or a house, or rent?

          Just a reminder also to keep up with the latest news on our website:

          http://www.freestateproject.org

          Also, feel free to participate in our Forum:

          http://forum.freestateproject.org

          and our Yahoo discussion group:

          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject

          Talk to you all later,

          Matt



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          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Rick LaPoint
          Being from New Hampshire, I chose only the Eastern States when signing up for the FSP. I guess that leaves me at an advantage, as I have a pretty good grasp on
          Message 4 of 10 , May 3, 2003
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            Being from New Hampshire, I chose only the Eastern States when signing
            up for the FSP. I guess that leaves me at an advantage, as I have a
            pretty good grasp on the geography back there. I can only speak for my
            own situation, but I am in a position to leave any time I wish.

            I am also in a position to move my personal business any time I wish.
            I'll hold out until I secure a position with a stable income before
            moving though.

            rick

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Wayne Baimbridge [mailto:wayne@...]
            Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 9:08 PM
            To: fourcornersporcupines@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [fourcornersporcupines] Re: Attn: AZ Porcs

            Rick:

            At this writing, I can honestly say that I haven't given much thought to
            the actual move. Naturally it will depend on what state winds up being
            the FS target. Once a state has been selected, I intend to educate
            myself on the demographics of various cities to explore the place in
            that state best suited for my particular concerns. Hopefully by the
            time the move takes place, my presence at the office (I'm one of the
            owners) will not be required full time, and I will be in a position to
            move without the worry of needing to generate an income to sustain
            myself. My house will be paid off by then, I have all the equity in it
            and a reasonable nest egg and seed money put away for investment and or
            a startup of some kind. Assuming that property in the chosen state is
            relatively cheaper than here in California, I should be able to purchase
            property from proceeds of my house sale.

            I am developing a multi-media division of my business, and because
            global communications are what they are, it is quite possible that by
            the time the move takes place, I will be able to do that work anywhere
            in the country and only have to visit clients rarely, (and at their
            expense). Communicating via conference calls and streaming video media
            will most likely be the method of contact at that time. In any case,
            work isn't as big a concern to me as it might be for others.

            As far as planning the actual move goes. My kids are out of the house,
            and should be either out (or nearly out) of college by the time the move
            actually takes place. While my wife hasn't voiced an objection to a
            move, I've learned after 19 years that could change on the day I turn
            the key to the ignition to pull out of the driveway. So, assuming she
            doesn't panic in the final moments I presume she will take a leading
            role in organizing our move. At this point it's so new, she's not
            really giving it much thought, but I'm talking about it regularly so she
            knows it's not a passing fancy of mine. Of course, if she gets cold
            feet, I will not leave her behind, ;-)

            I'll be happy to post more thoughts on the subject and detail actual
            planning activities as time goes on.

            Best regards,

            Wayne Baimbridge
            wayne@...



            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Matt Cheselka
            To: fourcornersporcupines@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 8:39 PM
            Subject: [fourcornersporcupines] Re: Attn: AZ Porcs


            Thanks, Rick, for posting this. The past coupla days got away from me
            but rest assured your note will go out tomorrow or Monday to all those
            AZers who said we could contact them.

            One subject I don't hear a lot about is the subject of moving. Since
            we're in AZ, we will obviously have to move. I personally don't care
            where we end up (of course I have my preferences, but as a board
            member I keep them private), as long as we can make it Free. But I'd
            like to hear from you all about your plans on making the actual move.
            How are you going to go about doing it? When will you do it -- right
            after the vote (probably going to occur in the fall), once we've
            reached 20,000, or within the 5 year time limit? I'd also like to
            hear about the mechanisms by which you'll make the move. Will you
            find a job first and then move? If you're married, will one of you
            move first to make all the necessary preparations? Will you buy
            acreage, or a house, or rent?

            Just a reminder also to keep up with the latest news on our website:

            http://www.freestateproject.org

            Also, feel free to participate in our Forum:

            http://forum.freestateproject.org

            and our Yahoo discussion group:

            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject

            Talk to you all later,

            Matt



            Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            fourcornersporcupines-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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          • Craig Wright
            ... It s likely if I move (I haven t joined yet) that it ll be before the 20,000 mark, but not immediately after the vote. My girlfriend has two years of
            Message 5 of 10 , May 4, 2003
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              On Saturday, May 3, 2003, at 09:39 PM, Matt Cheselka wrote:

              > Thanks, Rick, for posting this.  The past coupla days got away from me
              > but rest assured your note will go out tomorrow or Monday to all those
              > AZers who said we could contact them.
              >
              > One subject I don't hear a lot about is the subject of moving.  Since
              > we're in AZ, we will obviously have to move.  I personally don't care
              > where we end up (of course I have my preferences, but as a board
              > member I keep them private), as long as we can make it Free.  But I'd
              > like to hear from you all about your plans on making the actual move.
              > How are you going to go about doing it?  When will you do it -- right
              > after the vote (probably going to occur in the fall), once we've
              > reached 20,000, or within the 5 year time limit?  I'd also like to
              > hear about the mechanisms by which you'll make the move.  Will you
              > find a job first and then move?  If you're married, will one of you
              > move first to make all the necessary preparations?  Will you buy
              > acreage, or a house, or rent?


              It's likely if I move (I haven't joined yet) that it'll be before the
              20,000 mark, but not immediately after the vote. My girlfriend has two
              years of school left to get her nursing degree. Before moving I would
              probably like to see one of us with a job. I'm a Computer Scientist so
              it is likely that I'll have to be employed in an urban area.

              I would like to see her employed and try to start a business of my own
              when we get there, possibly as a consultant or a martial arts
              instructor. It would be likely that we would rent at first to make sure
              we like the place and to get used to the surroundings and understand
              the real estate market. After that we'd probably look into buying a
              house in an small urban or semi-urban area and maybe some rural
              property as well.

              I'm really hoping for New Hampshire for a variety of reasons. I think
              that if the project is successful it'll be very important to have
              access to the sea. That said, between Delaware, Alaska, and New
              Hampshire our chances are probably best in New Hampshire given its
              large state legislature and culture of Liberty. It is possible Wyoming
              or some of the western states would work too, but the economies are
              small and the land is vast, which makes it harder to communicate with
              people directly. Land-locked states in my opinion don't bode well if
              the project is successful because of the limitations they impose on
              trade and the difficultly in creating a vibrant economy in them.

              That's my two cents. :)

              -Craig.



              >
              > Just a reminder also to keep up with the latest news on our website:
              >
              > http://www.freestateproject.org
              >
              > Also, feel free to participate in our Forum:
              >
              > http://forum.freestateproject.org
              >
              > and our Yahoo discussion group:
              >
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject
              >
              > Talk to you all later,
              >
              > Matt
              >
              >
              >
              <image.tiff>
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > fourcornersporcupines-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            • Jessica Stealey
              ... me ... those ... Since ... Personally, I think about this aspect of the project the most. I love living in AZ, and am not particularly fond of the idea of
              Message 6 of 10 , May 4, 2003
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                --- In fourcornersporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "Matt Cheselka"
                <cheselka@m...> wrote:
                > Thanks, Rick, for posting this. The past coupla days got away from
                me
                > but rest assured your note will go out tomorrow or Monday to all
                those
                > AZers who said we could contact them.
                >
                > One subject I don't hear a lot about is the subject of moving.
                Since
                > we're in AZ, we will obviously have to move.

                Personally, I think about this aspect of the project the most. I
                love living in AZ, and am not particularly fond of the idea of moving
                right now. I think we will wait and move sometime after the vote,
                and probably closer to the 5 year deadline. My husband is self-
                employed, and I am a hospital worker, so we both could pretty much
                live anywhere we choose within whatever state is chosen, so that
                would definitely ease the burden of moving on us.

                We would almost certainly buy property, and are even entertaining the
                idea of dual residences so that we could keep property here as well.
                I have even entertained the idea of being a part-time agency worker
                in both states.

                I'm pretty neutral as to which state will be chosen, although I have
                opted-out of Alaska and N. Dakota, although if either were chosen, I
                would probably reconsider.

                I'd be interested in a local convention to meet other members. I
                think it would be a great support mechanism for when the time to move
                does come.
              • Matt Cheselka
                ... Here s another issue that I ve struggled with since the beginning. If we assume that we re all very strong individualists (I certainly consider myself
                Message 7 of 10 , May 4, 2003
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                  > I'm pretty neutral as to which state will be chosen, although I have
                  > opted-out of Alaska and N. Dakota, although if either were chosen, I
                  > would probably reconsider.
                  >

                  Here's another issue that I've struggled with since the beginning. If
                  we assume that we're all very strong individualists (I certainly
                  consider myself one), how can we accept the decision of a collective
                  majority to choose where were live? I do this in the following way:

                  I think about what I want. Well, I want to be free and I want to be
                  left alone. Can I do this myself? Well, not really. In the current
                  system, there's always some kind of bother (both government in terms
                  of silly laws and regulations, and neighbors in terms of telling me
                  what color my house is suppose to be, what animals I keep, what I do
                  with my propery, etc.). However, if I could surround myself with
                  like-minded people (we all want to be left alone), then I'd be in a
                  great situation. So if I can figure out a way to accomplish this, I'm
                  gonna do it. So I actually don't see it as giving in the collective
                  majority, but rather finding a location on this planet where I can do
                  what I want and know I won't be bothered unless I'm being in some way
                  violent to my neighbors.

                  > I'd be interested in a local convention to meet other members. I
                  > think it would be a great support mechanism for when the time the
                  > move does come.

                  Well, this is what Rick is working on. I'm leaving it up to him and
                  any of you to organize this, but I'll offer any kind of support I can
                  in terms of logistics, phone calls, setting up a web page on the FSP
                  server, etc. I suggested to Rick that we might have two meetings.
                  One for "northerners" (Phoenix and above) and one for "southerners"
                  (below Phoenix). The two groups would of course be invited to each
                  other's, of course. I'm suggesting this mainly for selfish reasons
                  becuase I'd have a hard time getting up to Phoenix in terms of time
                  (it's a 3 hour drive from where I am one-way -- that's 6 hours of
                  driving for a 1-2 event!!). I'm trying to grow a start-up company and
                  with all new babies this one needs 15000% of my attention for the
                  forseeable future. Anyhow, just an idea to consider.

                  G'night,

                  Matt
                • Rick LaPoint
                  Mr. Marshall, Thank you for your response. No-one ever proposed a special list of attendees for the AZ event, and none is being kept except on my own
                  Message 8 of 10 , May 4, 2003
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                    Mr. Marshall,

                    Thank you for your response.

                    No-one ever proposed a special "list" of attendees for the AZ event, and
                    none is being kept except on my own Microsoft Outlook contact list. I
                    comply with the FSP's policy of complete privacy when it comes to
                    contacting and sharing information about the membership.

                    As I would like this to be planned and operated as a somewhat
                    professional event, I simply cannot make a post to a few dozen lists and
                    hope that people show up. Also, I'd rather not flood the current lists
                    with posts concerning this event which people (as in the case of this
                    list) from NM, UT, and CO could really give a hoot about. On the other
                    hand, those who are inclined to just "show up" will be more than welcome
                    should they choose to do so.

                    In the interest of planning, those who wish to attend in an official
                    capacity can contact me directly at either rick@... or at
                    (520)903-0500. You confidentiality is assured.

                    Mr. Cheselka has already suggested two meetings, one for Northern AZ,
                    and one for Southern AZ.

                    This may well be the best solution, but like Matt I have other
                    responsibilities which will make organizing two such separate events an
                    impossibility. I'm committed to organizing one, and since I'm in Tucson
                    I'll take the Southern one. If someone from the Phoenix area would like
                    to aid in this effort by volunteering to work with me on making this a
                    joint North/South statewide event at separate locations, please step up.

                    If not, I offer Matt and two others from southern AZ a ride. ;)

                    Regards,

                    rick







                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Willy Star Marshall [mailto:willystarman@...]
                    Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 8:31 PM
                    To: rick@...
                    Subject: Fwd: [fourcornersporcupines] Attn: AZ Porcs

                    Sure, keep me posted.  But I don't see any need to have a special list
                    of people who want to gather.  Just decide when and where you want to do
                    it and invite everyone on the list to come.
                  • John Stephens
                    I d like to get together with my fellow Porcupines. Any time before the 21st of June is fine, I ll be travelling after that. John
                    Message 9 of 10 , May 5, 2003
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                      I'd like to get together with my fellow Porcupines.
                      Any time before the 21st of June is fine, I'll be
                      travelling after that.

                      John


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                    • maywood2008
                      ... If there is anything I ve learned since moving to Arizona, it is that people in northern Arizona do not want to be blended in with Phoenix :-) I am spread
                      Message 10 of 10 , May 5, 2003
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                        --- In fourcornersporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "Rick LaPoint"
                        <rick@o...> wrote:
                        >
                        > This may well be the best solution, but like Matt I have other
                        > responsibilities which will make organizing two such separate
                        > events an impossibility. I'm committed to organizing one, and since
                        > I'm in Tucson I'll take the Southern one. If someone from the
                        > Phoenix area would like to aid in this effort by volunteering to
                        > work with me on making this a joint North/South statewide event at
                        > separate locations, please step up.

                        If there is anything I've learned since moving to Arizona, it is that
                        people in northern Arizona do not want to be blended in with
                        Phoenix :-)

                        I am spread out pretty thin with LP stuff to volunteer. However, the
                        Pima County LP meetings are open to any FSP members who want to make
                        a short presentation and pitch. I made the offer to Matt a few months
                        ago, but anyone else is welcome to accept it as well.

                        I also recommend going to the local objectivist groups. I gave
                        Elizabeth the contact info she needed to go to the Boston Objectivist
                        meeting a few months back and she was a big hit with them. I know a
                        lot of O'ists in Tucson & Phoenix are interested in FSP and
                        presentations should be made to these groups as well.

                        I'm self-employed and my wife is a hospital worker so we're pretty
                        flexible as to where we move. But I have always had a soft place in
                        my heart for New Hampshire, and I will probably refuse to move
                        anyplace but northern New England. North Dakota is OUT. Delaware is
                        OUT.

                        David Euchner
                        Chairman, Pima County Libertarian Party
                        Assistant Treasurer, Arizona Libertarian Party
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