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Re: Searching for a New Direction

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  • Derek
    Just the belief that the IRS and the income tax is unconstitutional will NOT get you put into prison. Not paying your taxes will. Many people in this country
    Message 1 of 21 , Jan 23, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      Just the belief that the IRS and the income tax is unconstitutional
      will NOT get you put into prison. Not paying your taxes will. Many
      people in this country believe that the IRS is unconstitutional and
      wrong, etc., but still they grudgingly pay their taxes because they
      know that they still have to, and they do not want to go to jail.
      The only ones I have seen go to jail are the ones that join these
      full fledged "tax protestor" groups and quit paying taxes.

      Big difference between believing it ain't right and not paying.

      Derek



      --- In arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "Denise Bensusan"
      <denise.bensusan@f...> wrote:
      >
      > Sandy said: "You've been taken in by a convicted criminal to get
      you to join his
      > organization and in breaking the law. If that is what you want,
      go ahead
      > but if you want to stay out of the pokey you will go another
      direction and
      > work to change the law."
      >
      > Just to clarify...I have not been taken in by ANYONE! I simply
      stated that I have some documents and information that support the
      premise that the IRS is indeed in violation of the Constitution.
      >
      > As with everything.....an individual can interpret issues in
      different ways. Just because someone believes that the IRS is
      unconstitutional does not make them a criminal and does not mean
      they are headed for the pokey. Free speech is still legal...well at
      least for today...LOL
      >
      > Great points however...thanks for sharing them.
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Sandra Price
      > To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:59 AM
      > Subject: RE: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New
      Direction
      >
      >
      > Denise. Believe me when I tell you that the IRS is working
      legitimately and
      > honestly within the Constitution. The men who are influencing
      Michael
      > Badnarik will soon see years of federal prison. I have an
      inside source on
      > this information and will share it with you when the last two
      are in prison.
      > Badnarik is very aware of his association with men who have done
      time for
      > extortion and he just walks away from the whole thing. If any
      signs up with
      > these men, you will have a potential criminal problem in the
      near future.
      > Why take a chance? Sign nothing on this subject!!! It is very
      close to
      > coming to a halt. I have warned many LP members to stop
      believing in the
      > tooth fairy.
      >
      >
      >
      > I despise the IRS and I do not work for the federal government.
      I do
      > recognize that sitting around spreading rumors that some stupid
      gold fringe
      > on our flag indicates a problem within the courts is just plan
      stupid silly.
      > The IRS is legal but it doesn't mean the laws can't be changed.
      Simply
      > breaking the law as a disgruntled American will get you into
      prison. I'm
      > tired of warning you people. Change the law legally!!! We
      tried it in 1970
      > when we formed the Liberty Amendment petition that we hoped
      would gather
      > enough signatures to put the whole IRS system before the
      voters. One of the
      > writers of this petition was Harry Browne and the other was
      Oliver Ray Price
      > (my husband) and we had a dozen attorneys go over the legality
      of this
      > petition and it was written and rewritten a dozen times.
      >
      >
      >
      > For 6 months we took this petition all over the state of
      California and the
      > people were disinterested in the action and thought the tax
      system was fine.
      > HHHH
      >
      > You've been taken in by a convicted criminal to get you to join
      his
      > organization and in breaking the law. If that is what you want,
      go ahead
      > but if you want to stay out of the pokey you will go another
      direction and
      > work to change the law.
      >
      >
      >
      > Sandy
    • Derek
      No, I do not. And I don t know if it would even be worth it to do it at my college. It is extremely small. I attend an acupuncture college here in AZ, and
      Message 2 of 21 , Jan 23, 2006
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        No, I do not. And I don't know if it would even be worth it to do it
        at my college. It is extremely small. I attend an acupuncture
        college here in AZ, and there are only about a dozen students in each
        of the 3 classes, so we only have around 36 students. Assuming that
        only 1/4 or so of them would be interested in becoming Libertarians,
        or already are Libertarians, I don't know if it is worth starting. It
        is such a small, specialty school, and it is an accelerated program,
        we barely have time for anything but studies.

        I know I don't have time to run a club. However, of the 3 guys in my
        class, ALL 3 of us do have Libertarian beliefs. We may all even be
        registered as Libertarians. I am a registered Lib but I am not sure
        about the other 2 guys.

        I used to attend a much larger community college, which probably would
        have been a better place to start a Libertarian organization. I
        thought about doing it then, but I was taking so many classes so I
        could get into Acupuncture school that I didn't have time to do it
        then either.

        But I agree, the colleges are great places to recruit. Young minds
        are still usually open, and at a young age, many people have an anti-
        establishment mindset, whereas when people get older, they tend to
        lean much more toward the establishment and status quo.

        If I had to guess what the political leanings of most of my classmates
        were, I would say most either probably don't care or are probably
        liberals or independents. Other than me and one other guy, I don't
        think any of my other classmates are politically active at all.

        How hard is it to start a Libertarian college organization? What do
        you have to do? I know 3 of us are Libertarians. Is that enough to
        make it worth it?

        Derek



        --- In arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "Denise Bensusan"
        <denise.bensusan@f...> wrote:
        >
        > Derek,
        >
        > Do you have an organized activist group at your college???
        >
        >
        > Denise
      • Sandra Price
        You are quite right. I do not recommend even signing up with these groups if you ever want or need a government clearance. Sandy ... From:
        Message 3 of 21 , Jan 24, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          You are quite right. I do not recommend even signing up with these groups
          if you ever want or need a government clearance.



          Sandy



          -----Original Message-----
          From: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Derek
          Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 5:43 PM
          To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction



          Just the belief that the IRS and the income tax is unconstitutional
          will NOT get you put into prison. Not paying your taxes will. Many
          people in this country believe that the IRS is unconstitutional and
          wrong, etc., but still they grudgingly pay their taxes because they
          know that they still have to, and they do not want to go to jail.
          The only ones I have seen go to jail are the ones that join these
          full fledged "tax protestor" groups and quit paying taxes.

          Big difference between believing it ain't right and not paying.

          Derek



          --- In arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "Denise Bensusan"
          <denise.bensusan@f...> wrote:
          >
          > Sandy said: "You've been taken in by a convicted criminal to get
          you to join his
          > organization and in breaking the law. If that is what you want,
          go ahead
          > but if you want to stay out of the pokey you will go another
          direction and
          > work to change the law."
          >
          > Just to clarify...I have not been taken in by ANYONE! I simply
          stated that I have some documents and information that support the
          premise that the IRS is indeed in violation of the Constitution.
          >
          > As with everything.....an individual can interpret issues in
          different ways. Just because someone believes that the IRS is
          unconstitutional does not make them a criminal and does not mean
          they are headed for the pokey. Free speech is still legal...well at
          least for today...LOL
          >
          > Great points however...thanks for sharing them.
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Sandra Price
          > To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:59 AM
          > Subject: RE: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New
          Direction
          >
          >
          > Denise. Believe me when I tell you that the IRS is working
          legitimately and
          > honestly within the Constitution. The men who are influencing
          Michael
          > Badnarik will soon see years of federal prison. I have an
          inside source on
          > this information and will share it with you when the last two
          are in prison.
          > Badnarik is very aware of his association with men who have done
          time for
          > extortion and he just walks away from the whole thing. If any
          signs up with
          > these men, you will have a potential criminal problem in the
          near future.
          > Why take a chance? Sign nothing on this subject!!! It is very
          close to
          > coming to a halt. I have warned many LP members to stop
          believing in the
          > tooth fairy.
          >
          >
          >
          > I despise the IRS and I do not work for the federal government.
          I do
          > recognize that sitting around spreading rumors that some stupid
          gold fringe
          > on our flag indicates a problem within the courts is just plan
          stupid silly.
          > The IRS is legal but it doesn't mean the laws can't be changed.
          Simply
          > breaking the law as a disgruntled American will get you into
          prison. I'm
          > tired of warning you people. Change the law legally!!! We
          tried it in 1970
          > when we formed the Liberty Amendment petition that we hoped
          would gather
          > enough signatures to put the whole IRS system before the
          voters. One of the
          > writers of this petition was Harry Browne and the other was
          Oliver Ray Price
          > (my husband) and we had a dozen attorneys go over the legality
          of this
          > petition and it was written and rewritten a dozen times.
          >
          >
          >
          > For 6 months we took this petition all over the state of
          California and the
          > people were disinterested in the action and thought the tax
          system was fine.
          > HHHH
          >
          > You've been taken in by a convicted criminal to get you to join
          his
          > organization and in breaking the law. If that is what you want,
          go ahead
          > but if you want to stay out of the pokey you will go another
          direction and
          > work to change the law.
          >
          >
          >
          > Sandy







          _____

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          <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arizonaporcupines> " on the web.


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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Denise Bensusan
          Sandy, Have you been to the FSP site? http://www.freestateproject.org/ It appears to me that the FSP is oriented toward Libertarianism and does support
          Message 4 of 21 , Jan 24, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Sandy,

            Have you been to the FSP site?

            http://www.freestateproject.org/

            It appears to me that the FSP is oriented toward Libertarianism and does support Libertarian candidates. This group is an FSP group....so I am wondering about your position concerning Libertarianism???

            Mo offense intended of course....

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Sandra Price
            To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 5:03 AM
            Subject: RE: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction


            You are quite right. I do not recommend even signing up with these groups
            if you ever want or need a government clearance.



            Sandy



            -----Original Message-----
            From: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Derek
            Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 5:43 PM
            To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction



            Just the belief that the IRS and the income tax is unconstitutional
            will NOT get you put into prison. Not paying your taxes will. Many
            people in this country believe that the IRS is unconstitutional and
            wrong, etc., but still they grudgingly pay their taxes because they
            know that they still have to, and they do not want to go to jail.
            The only ones I have seen go to jail are the ones that join these
            full fledged "tax protestor" groups and quit paying taxes.

            Big difference between believing it ain't right and not paying.

            Derek



            --- In arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "Denise Bensusan"
            <denise.bensusan@f...> wrote:
            >
            > Sandy said: "You've been taken in by a convicted criminal to get
            you to join his
            > organization and in breaking the law. If that is what you want,
            go ahead
            > but if you want to stay out of the pokey you will go another
            direction and
            > work to change the law."
            >
            > Just to clarify...I have not been taken in by ANYONE! I simply
            stated that I have some documents and information that support the
            premise that the IRS is indeed in violation of the Constitution.
            >
            > As with everything.....an individual can interpret issues in
            different ways. Just because someone believes that the IRS is
            unconstitutional does not make them a criminal and does not mean
            they are headed for the pokey. Free speech is still legal...well at
            least for today...LOL
            >
            > Great points however...thanks for sharing them.
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Sandra Price
            > To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:59 AM
            > Subject: RE: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New
            Direction
            >
            >
            > Denise. Believe me when I tell you that the IRS is working
            legitimately and
            > honestly within the Constitution. The men who are influencing
            Michael
            > Badnarik will soon see years of federal prison. I have an
            inside source on
            > this information and will share it with you when the last two
            are in prison.
            > Badnarik is very aware of his association with men who have done
            time for
            > extortion and he just walks away from the whole thing. If any
            signs up with
            > these men, you will have a potential criminal problem in the
            near future.
            > Why take a chance? Sign nothing on this subject!!! It is very
            close to
            > coming to a halt. I have warned many LP members to stop
            believing in the
            > tooth fairy.
            >
            >
            >
            > I despise the IRS and I do not work for the federal government.
            I do
            > recognize that sitting around spreading rumors that some stupid
            gold fringe
            > on our flag indicates a problem within the courts is just plan
            stupid silly.
            > The IRS is legal but it doesn't mean the laws can't be changed.
            Simply
            > breaking the law as a disgruntled American will get you into
            prison. I'm
            > tired of warning you people. Change the law legally!!! We
            tried it in 1970
            > when we formed the Liberty Amendment petition that we hoped
            would gather
            > enough signatures to put the whole IRS system before the
            voters. One of the
            > writers of this petition was Harry Browne and the other was
            Oliver Ray Price
            > (my husband) and we had a dozen attorneys go over the legality
            of this
            > petition and it was written and rewritten a dozen times.
            >
            >
            >
            > For 6 months we took this petition all over the state of
            California and the
            > people were disinterested in the action and thought the tax
            system was fine.
            > HHHH
            >
            > You've been taken in by a convicted criminal to get you to join
            his
            > organization and in breaking the law. If that is what you want,
            go ahead
            > but if you want to stay out of the pokey you will go another
            direction and
            > work to change the law.
            >
            >
            >
            > Sandy







            _____

            YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



            * Visit your group "arizonaporcupines
            <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arizonaporcupines> " on the web.


            * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            arizonaporcupines-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            <mailto:arizonaporcupines-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>


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            <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



            _____



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            Yahoo! Groups Links










            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Sandra Price
            Not for a couple of years. What I got involved in was the LP Phoenix group, I was told there are two LP groups in Arizona and I was not impressed with the one
            Message 5 of 21 , Jan 24, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Not for a couple of years. What I got involved in was the LP Phoenix group,
              I was told there are two LP groups in Arizona and I was not impressed with
              the one that ran the Arizona primary where Badnarik too the leadership. I
              am interested in getting my freedoms back and would rather not trade them
              for anything. If every member of the LP had voted for their candidates,
              there would have been a greater turnout in 2004. They are not serious! So
              I will go with the Independents. I have a doctor's appointment and will
              check the FSP later on.



              Sandy



              -----Original Message-----
              From: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denise Bensusan
              Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 6:22 AM
              To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction



              Sandy,

              Have you been to the FSP site?

              http://www.freestateproject.org/

              It appears to me that the FSP is oriented toward Libertarianism and does
              support Libertarian candidates. This group is an FSP group....so I am
              wondering about your position concerning Libertarianism???

              Mo offense intended of course....

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Sandra Price
              To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 5:03 AM
              Subject: RE: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction


              You are quite right. I do not recommend even signing up with these groups
              if you ever want or need a government clearance.



              Sandy



              -----Original Message-----
              From: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Derek
              Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 5:43 PM
              To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction



              Just the belief that the IRS and the income tax is unconstitutional
              will NOT get you put into prison. Not paying your taxes will. Many
              people in this country believe that the IRS is unconstitutional and
              wrong, etc., but still they grudgingly pay their taxes because they
              know that they still have to, and they do not want to go to jail.
              The only ones I have seen go to jail are the ones that join these
              full fledged "tax protestor" groups and quit paying taxes.

              Big difference between believing it ain't right and not paying.

              Derek



              --- In arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "Denise Bensusan"
              <denise.bensusan@f...> wrote:
              >
              > Sandy said: "You've been taken in by a convicted criminal to get
              you to join his
              > organization and in breaking the law. If that is what you want,
              go ahead
              > but if you want to stay out of the pokey you will go another
              direction and
              > work to change the law."
              >
              > Just to clarify...I have not been taken in by ANYONE! I simply
              stated that I have some documents and information that support the
              premise that the IRS is indeed in violation of the Constitution.
              >
              > As with everything.....an individual can interpret issues in
              different ways. Just because someone believes that the IRS is
              unconstitutional does not make them a criminal and does not mean
              they are headed for the pokey. Free speech is still legal...well at
              least for today...LOL
              >
              > Great points however...thanks for sharing them.
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Sandra Price
              > To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:59 AM
              > Subject: RE: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New
              Direction
              >
              >
              > Denise. Believe me when I tell you that the IRS is working
              legitimately and
              > honestly within the Constitution. The men who are influencing
              Michael
              > Badnarik will soon see years of federal prison. I have an
              inside source on
              > this information and will share it with you when the last two
              are in prison.
              > Badnarik is very aware of his association with men who have done
              time for
              > extortion and he just walks away from the whole thing. If any
              signs up with
              > these men, you will have a potential criminal problem in the
              near future.
              > Why take a chance? Sign nothing on this subject!!! It is very
              close to
              > coming to a halt. I have warned many LP members to stop
              believing in the
              > tooth fairy.
              >
              >
              >
              > I despise the IRS and I do not work for the federal government.
              I do
              > recognize that sitting around spreading rumors that some stupid
              gold fringe
              > on our flag indicates a problem within the courts is just plan
              stupid silly.
              > The IRS is legal but it doesn't mean the laws can't be changed.
              Simply
              > breaking the law as a disgruntled American will get you into
              prison. I'm
              > tired of warning you people. Change the law legally!!! We
              tried it in 1970
              > when we formed the Liberty Amendment petition that we hoped
              would gather
              > enough signatures to put the whole IRS system before the
              voters. One of the
              > writers of this petition was Harry Browne and the other was
              Oliver Ray Price
              > (my husband) and we had a dozen attorneys go over the legality
              of this
              > petition and it was written and rewritten a dozen times.
              >
              >
              >
              > For 6 months we took this petition all over the state of
              California and the
              > people were disinterested in the action and thought the tax
              system was fine.
              > HHHH
              >
              > You've been taken in by a convicted criminal to get you to join
              his
              > organization and in breaking the law. If that is what you want,
              go ahead
              > but if you want to stay out of the pokey you will go another
              direction and
              > work to change the law.
              >
              >
              >
              > Sandy







              _____

              YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



              * Visit your group "arizonaporcupines
              <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arizonaporcupines> " on the web.


              * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              arizonaporcupines-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              <mailto:arizonaporcupines-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>



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              <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



              _____



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




              Yahoo! Groups Links










              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




              _____

              YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



              * Visit your group "arizonaporcupines
              <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arizonaporcupines> " on the web.


              * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              arizonaporcupines-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              <mailto:arizonaporcupines-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>


              * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
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              _____



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