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Searching for a New Direction

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  • Denise Bensusan
    Forwarded for your interest: Searching for a New Direction by Ron Paul by Ron Paul Before the US House of Representatives, January 18, 2006 The Abramoff
    Message 1 of 21 , Jan 21, 2006
      Forwarded for your interest:

      Searching for a New Direction

      by Ron Paul
      by Ron Paul



      Before the US House of Representatives, January 18, 2006

      The Abramoff scandal has been described as the biggest Washington scandal ever: bigger than Watergate; bigger than Abscam; bigger than Koreagate; bigger than the House banking scandal; bigger than Teapot Dome. Possibly so. It�s certainly serious and significant.

      It has prompted urgent proposals of suggested reforms to deal with the mess. If only we have more rules and regulations, more reporting requirements, and stricter enforcement of laws, the American people will be assured we mean business. Ethics and character will return to the halls of Congress. It is argued that new champions of reform should be elected to leadership positions, to show how serious we are about dealing with the crisis of confidence generated by the Abramoff affair. Then all will be well. But it�s not so simple. Maybe what we have seen so far is just the tip of the iceberg, an insidious crisis staring us in the face that we refuse to properly identify and deal with.

      It�s been suggested we need to change course and correct the way Congress is run. A good idea, but if we merely tinker with current attitudes about what role the federal government ought to play in our lives, it won�t do much to solve the ethics crisis. True reform is impossible without addressing the immorality of wealth redistribution. Merely electing new leaders and writing more rules to regulate those who petition Congress will achieve nothing.

      Could it be that we�re all looking in the wrong places for a solution to recurring, constant, and pervasive corruption in government? Perhaps some of us in Congress are mistaken about the true problem; perhaps others deliberately distract us from exposing the truth about how miserably corrupt the budget process in Congress is. Others simply are in a state of denial. But the denial will come to an end as the Abramoff scandal reveals more and more. It eventually will expose the scandal of the ages: how and to what degree the American people have become indebted by the totally irresponsible spending habits of the U.S. Congress � as encouraged by successive administrations, condoned by our courts, and enjoyed by the recipients of the largesse.

      This system of government is coming to an end � a fact that significantly contributes to the growing anxiety of most Americans, especially those who pay the bills and receive little in return from the corrupt system that has evolved over the decades.

      Believe me, if everybody benefited equally there would be scant outcry over a little bribery and influence peddling. As our country grows poorer and more indebted, fewer people benefit. The beneficiaries are not the hard-working, honest people who pay the taxes. The groups that master the system of lobbying and special interest legislation are the ones who truly benefit.

      The steady erosion of real wealth in this country, and the dependency on government generated by welfarism and warfarism, presents itself as the crisis of the ages. Lobbying scandals and the need for new leadership are mere symptoms of a much, much deeper problem.

      There are quite a few reasons a relatively free country allows itself to fall into such an ethical and financial mess.

      One major contributing factor for the past hundred years is our serious misunderstanding of the dangers of pure democracy. The founders detested democracy and avoided the use of the word in all the early documents. Today, most Americans accept without question a policy of sacrificing life, property, and dollars to force �democracy� on a country 6,000 miles away. This tells us how little opposition there is to �democracy.� No one questions the principle that a majority electorate should be allowed to rule the country, dictate rights, and redistribute wealth.

      Our system of democracy has come to mean worshipping the notion that a majority vote for the distribution of government largesse, loot confiscated from the American people through an immoral tax system, is morally and constitutionally acceptable. Under these circumstances it�s no wonder a system of runaway lobbying and special interests has developed. Add this to the military industrial complex that developed over the decades due to a foreign policy of perpetual war and foreign military intervention, and we shouldn�t wonder why there is such a powerful motivation to learn the tricks of the lobbying trade � and why former members of Congress and their aides become such high-priced commodities. Buying influence is much more lucrative than working and producing for a living. The trouble is the process invites moral corruption. The dollars involved grow larger and larger because of the deficit financing and inflation that pure democracy always generates.

      Dealing with lobbying scandals while ignoring the scandal of unconstitutional runaway government will solve nothing. If people truly believe that reform is the solution, through regulating lobbyists and increasing congressional reporting requirements, the real problem will be ignored and never identified. This reform only makes things worse.

      Greater regulation of lobbyists is a dangerous and unnecessary proposition. If one expects to solve a problem without correctly identifying its source, the problem persists. The First amendment clearly states: �Congress shall make no laws respecting�the right of the people�to petition the government for a redress of grievances.� That means NO law!

      The problem of special interest government that breeds corruption comes from our lack of respect for the Constitution in the first place. So what do we do? We further violate the Constitution rather than examine it for guidance as to the proper role of the federal government. Laws addressing bribery, theft, and fraud, already on the books, are adequate to deal with the criminal activities associated with lobbying. New laws and regulations are unnecessary.

      The theft that the federal government commits against its citizens, and the power that Congress has assumed illegally, are the real crimes that need to be dealt with. In this regard we truly do need a new direction. Get rid of the evil tax system; the fraudulent monetary system; and the power of government to run our lives, the economy, and the world; and the Abramoff types would be exposed for the mere gnats they are. There would be a lot less of them, since the incentives to buy politicians would be removed.

      Even under today�s flawed system of democratic government, which is dedicated to redistributing property by force, a lot could be accomplished if government attracted men and women of good will and character. Members could refuse to yield to the temptations of office, and reject the path to a lobbying career. But it seems once government adopts the rules of immorality, some of the participants in the process yield to the temptation as well, succumbing to the belief that the new moral standards are acceptable.

      Today though, any new rules designed to restrain special interest favoritism will only push the money further under the table. Too much is at stake. Corporations, bureaucrats, lobbyists, and politicians have grown accustomed to the system, and have learned to work within it to survive. Only when the trough is emptied will the country wake up. Eliminating earmarks in the budget will not solve the problem.

      Comparing the current scandal to the �big� one, the Abramoff types are petty thieves. The government deals in trillions of dollars; the Abramoffs in mere tens of millions. Take a look at the undeclared war we�re bogged down in 6,000 miles from our shores. We�ve spent 300 billion dollars already, but Nobel prize winner Joseph Stiglitz argues that the war actually will cost between one and two trillion dollars when it�s all over and done with. That�s trillions, not billions. Even that figure is unpredictable, because we may be in Iraq another year or ten � who knows? Considering the war had nothing to do with our national security, we�re talking big bucks being wasted and lining the pockets of many well-connected American corporations. Waste, fraud, stupidity, and no-bid contracts characterize the process. And it�s all done in the name of patriotism and national security. Dissenters are accused of supporting the enemy. Now this is a rip-off that a little tinkering with House rules and restraints on lobbyists won�t do much to solve.

      Think of how this undeclared war has contributed to our national deficit, undermined military morale and preparedness, antagonized our allies, and exposed us to an even greater threat from those who resent our destructive occupation. Claiming we have no interests in the oil of the entire Middle East hardly helps our credibility throughout the world.

      The system of special interest government that has evolved over the last several decades has given us a national debt of over eight trillion dollars, a debt that now expands by over 600 billion dollars each year. Our total obligations are estimated between fifteen and twenty trillion dollars. Most people realize the Social Security system, the Medicare system, and the new prescription drug plan are unfunded. Thousands of private pension funds are now being dumped on the U.S. government and American taxpayers. We are borrowing over 700 billion dollars each year from foreigners to finance this extravagance, and we now qualify as the greatest international debtor nation in history. Excessive consumption using borrowed money is hardly the way to secure a sound economy.

      Instead of reining in government spending, Congress remains oblivious to the financial dangers and panders to special interests by offering no resistance whatsoever to every request for new spending. Congress spends nearly 2 � trillion dollars annually in an attempt to satisfy everyone�s demands. The system has generated over 200 trillion dollars of derivatives. These problems can�t be addressed with token leadership changes and tinkering with the budget. A new and a dramatic direction is required.

      As current policy further erodes the budget, special interests and members of Congress become even more aggressive in their efforts to capture a piece of the dwindling economic pie. That success is the measure of effectiveness that guarantees a member�s re-election.

      The biggest rip-off of all � the paper money system that is morally and economically equivalent to counterfeiting � is never questioned. It is the deceptive tool for transferring billions from the unsuspecting poor and middle-class to the special interest rich. And in the process, the deficit-propelled budget process supports the spending demands of all the special interests � left and right, welfare and warfare � while delaying payment to another day and sometimes even to another generation.

      The enormous sums spent each year to support the influential special interests expand exponentially, and no one really asks how it�s accomplished. Raising taxes to balance the budget is out of the question � and rightfully so. Foreigners have been generous in their willingness to loan us most of what we need, but even that generosity is limited and may well diminish in the future.

      But if the Federal Reserve did not pick up the slack and create huge amounts of new credit and money out of thin air, interest rates would rise and call a halt to the charade. The people who suffer from a depreciated dollar don�t understand why they suffer, while the people who benefit promote the corrupt system. The wealthy clean up on Wall Street, and the unsophisticated buy in as the market tops off. Wealth is transferred from one group to another, and it�s all related to the system that allows politicians and the central banks to create money out of thin air. It�s literally legalized counterfeiting.

      Is it any wonder jobs go overseas? True capital only comes from savings, and Americans save nothing. We only borrow and consume. A counterfeiter has no incentive to take his newly created money and build factories. The incentive for Americans is to buy consumer goods from other countries whose people are willing to save and invest in their factories and jobs. The only way we can continue this charade is to borrow excess dollars back from the foreign governments who sell us goods, and perpetuate the pretense of wealth that we enjoy.

      The system of money contributes significantly to the problem of illegal immigration. On the surface, immigrants escaping poverty in Mexico and Central America come here for the economic opportunity that our economy offers. However, the social services they receive, including education and medical benefits � as well as the jobs they get � are dependent on our perpetual indebtedness to foreign countries. When the burden of debt becomes excessive, this incentive to seek prosperity here in the United States will change.

      The prime beneficiaries of a paper money system are those who use the money early � governments, politicians, bankers, international corporations, and the military industrial complex. Those who suffer most are the ones at the end of the money chain � the people forced to use depreciated dollars to buy urgently needed goods and services to survive. And guess what? By then their money is worth less, prices soar, and their standard of living goes down.

      The consequences of this system, fully in place for the past thirty-four years, are astronomical and impossible to accurately measure. Industries go offshore and the jobs follow. Price inflation eats away at the middle class, and deficits soar while spending escalates rapidly as Congress hopes to keep up with the problems it created. The remaining wealth that we struggle to hold onto is based on debt, future tax revenues, and our ability to manufacture new dollars without restraint. There�s only one problem: it all depends on trust in the dollar, especially by foreign holders and purchasers. This trust will end, and signs of the beginning of the end are already appearing.

      During this administration the dollar has suffered severely as a consequence of the policy of inflating the currency to pay our bills. The dollar price of gold has more than doubled ($252 to $560 per ounce, a 122 % increase). This means the dollar has depreciated in terms of gold, the time-honored and reliable measurement of a nation�s currency, by an astounding 55%. The long-term economic health of the nation is measured by the soundness of its currency. Once Rome converted from a republic to an empire, she depreciated her currency to pay the bills. This eventually led to Rome�s downfall. That is exactly what America is facing unless we change our ways.

      Now this is a real scandal worth worrying about. Since it�s not yet on Washington�s radar screen, no attempt at addressing the problem is being made. Instead, we�ll be sure to make those the Constitution terms, �petitioners to redress their grievances� fill out more forms. We�ll make government officials attend more ethics courses so they can learn how to be more ethical.

      A free nation, as it moves toward authoritarianism, tolerates and hides a lot of abuse in the system. The human impulse for wealth creation is hard to destroy. But in the end it will happen here, if true reform of our economic, monetary, and political system is not accomplished.

      Whether government programs are promoted for �good� causes (helping the poor), or bad causes (permitting a military-industrial complex to capitalize on war profits), the principles of the market are undermined. Eventually nearly everyone becomes dependent on the system of deficits, borrowing, printing press money, and the special interest budget process that distributes loot by majority vote.

      Today, most business interests and the poor are dependent on government handouts. Education and medical care are almost completely controlled and regulated by an overpowering central government. We have come to accept our role as world policemen and nation builder with little question, despite the bad results and an inability to pay the bills.

      The question is, what will it take to bring about the changes in policy needed to reverse this dangerous trend? The answer is: quite a lot. And unfortunately it�s not on the horizon. It probably won�t come until there is a rejection of the dollar as the safest and strongest world currency, and a return to commodity money like gold and silver to restore confidence.

      The Abramoff-type scandals come and go in Washington, patched over with grandiose schemes of reform that amount to nothing but more government and congressional mischief. But our efforts should be directed toward eliminating the greatest of all frauds � printing press money that creates the political conditions breeding the vultures and leeches who feed off the corrupt system.

      Counterfeiting money never creates wealth � it only steals wealth from the unsuspecting. The Federal Reserve creation of money is exactly the same. Increasing the dollars in circulation can only diminish the value of each existing dollar. Only production and jobs can make a country wealthy in the long run. Today it�s obvious our country is becoming poorer and more uneasy as our jobs and capital go overseas.

      The Abramoff scandal can serve a useful purpose if we put it in context of the entire system that encourages corruption.

      If it�s seen as an isolated case of individual corruption, and not an expected consequence of big government run amuck, little good will come of it. If we understand how our system of government intervenes in our personal lives, the entire economy, and the internal affairs of nations around the world, we can understand how it generates the conditions where lobbyists thrive. Only then will some good come of it. Only then will we understand that undermining the First amendment right of the people to petition their government is hardly a solution to this much more serious and pervasive problem.

      If we�re inclined to improve conditions, we should give serious consideration to the following policy reforms, reforms the American people who cherish liberty would enthusiastically support:

      1.. No more �No Child Left Behind� legislation;
      2.. No more prescription drug programs;
      3.. No more undeclared wars;
      4.. No more nation building;
      5.. No more acting as the world policemen;
      6.. No more deficits;
      7.. Cut spending � everywhere;
      8.. No more political and partisan resolutions designed to embarrass those who may well have legitimate and honest disagreements with current policy;
      9.. No inferences that disagreeing with policy is unpatriotic or disloyal to the country;
      10.. No more pretense of budget reform while ignoring off-budget spending and the ever-growing fourteen appropriations bills;
      11.. Cut funding for corporate welfare, foreign aid, international NGOs, defense contractors, the military industrial complex, and rich corporate farmers before cutting welfare for the poor at home;
      12.. No more unconstitutional intrusions into the privacy of law-abiding American citizens;
      13.. Reconsider the hysterical demands for security over liberty by curtailing the ever-expanding and oppressive wars on drugs, tax violators, and gun ownership.
      Finally, why not try something novel, like having Congress act as an independent and equal branch of government? Restore the principle of the separation of powers, so that we can perform our duty to provide checks and balances on an executive branch (and an accommodating judiciary) that spies on Americans, glorifies the welfare state, fights undeclared wars, and enormously increases the national debt. Congress was not meant to be a rubber stamp. It�s time for a new direction.

      January 19, 2006

      Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from Texas.

      Denise

      Denise Bensusan
      SPEAK OUT ARIZONA
      A Not for Profit Community Active Publication
      http://www.frontiernet.net/~denise.bensusan/

      �Our safety, our liberty, depends upon preserving the Constitution of the United States as our Fathers made it inviolate. The people of the United States are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.� - Abraham Lincoln

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Sandra Price
      Words of wisdom! He speaks for me!! Sandy Price ... From: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com [mailto:arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denise
      Message 2 of 21 , Jan 22, 2006
        Words of wisdom! He speaks for me!!

        Sandy Price

        -----Original Message-----
        From: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denise Bensusan
        Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 2:18 PM
        To: "SPEAK OUT ARIZONA"
        Subject: [arizonaporcupines] Searching for a New Direction

        Forwarded for your interest:

        Searching for a New Direction

        by Ron Paul
        by Ron Paul



        Before the US House of Representatives, January 18, 2006

        The Abramoff scandal has been described as the biggest Washington scandal
        ever: bigger than Watergate; bigger than Abscam; bigger than Koreagate;
        bigger than the House banking scandal; bigger than Teapot Dome. Possibly so.
        It’s certainly serious and significant.

        It has prompted urgent proposals of suggested reforms to deal with the mess.
        If only we have more rules and regulations, more reporting requirements, and
        stricter enforcement of laws, the American people will be assured we mean
        business. Ethics and character will return to the halls of Congress. It is
        argued that new champions of reform should be elected to leadership
        positions, to show how serious we are about dealing with the crisis of
        confidence generated by the Abramoff affair. Then all will be well. But it’s
        not so simple. Maybe what we have seen so far is just the tip of the
        iceberg, an insidious crisis staring us in the face that we refuse to
        properly identify and deal with.

        It’s been suggested we need to change course and correct the way Congress is
        run. A good idea, but if we merely tinker with current attitudes about what
        role the federal government ought to play in our lives, it won’t do much to
        solve the ethics crisis. True reform is impossible without addressing the
        immorality of wealth redistribution. Merely electing new leaders and writing
        more rules to regulate those who petition Congress will achieve nothing.

        Could it be that we’re all looking in the wrong places for a solution to
        recurring, constant, and pervasive corruption in government? Perhaps some of
        us in Congress are mistaken about the true problem; perhaps others
        deliberately distract us from exposing the truth about how miserably corrupt
        the budget process in Congress is. Others simply are in a state of denial.
        But the denial will come to an end as the Abramoff scandal reveals more and
        more. It eventually will expose the scandal of the ages: how and to what
        degree the American people have become indebted by the totally irresponsible
        spending habits of the U.S. Congress – as encouraged by successive
        administrations, condoned by our courts, and enjoyed by the recipients of
        the largesse.

        This system of government is coming to an end – a fact that significantly
        contributes to the growing anxiety of most Americans, especially those who
        pay the bills and receive little in return from the corrupt system that has
        evolved over the decades.

        Believe me, if everybody benefited equally there would be scant outcry over
        a little bribery and influence peddling. As our country grows poorer and
        more indebted, fewer people benefit. The beneficiaries are not the
        hard-working, honest people who pay the taxes. The groups that master the
        system of lobbying and special interest legislation are the ones who truly
        benefit.

        The steady erosion of real wealth in this country, and the dependency on
        government generated by welfarism and warfarism, presents itself as the
        crisis of the ages. Lobbying scandals and the need for new leadership are
        mere symptoms of a much, much deeper problem.

        There are quite a few reasons a relatively free country allows itself to
        fall into such an ethical and financial mess.

        One major contributing factor for the past hundred years is our serious
        misunderstanding of the dangers of pure democracy. The founders detested
        democracy and avoided the use of the word in all the early documents. Today,
        most Americans accept without question a policy of sacrificing life,
        property, and dollars to force “democracy” on a country 6,000 miles away.
        This tells us how little opposition there is to “democracy.” No one
        questions the principle that a majority electorate should be allowed to rule
        the country, dictate rights, and redistribute wealth.

        Our system of democracy has come to mean worshipping the notion that a
        majority vote for the distribution of government largesse, loot confiscated
        from the American people through an immoral tax system, is morally and
        constitutionally acceptable. Under these circumstances it’s no wonder a
        system of runaway lobbying and special interests has developed. Add this to
        the military industrial complex that developed over the decades due to a
        foreign policy of perpetual war and foreign military intervention, and we
        shouldn’t wonder why there is such a powerful motivation to learn the tricks
        of the lobbying trade – and why former members of Congress and their aides
        become such high-priced commodities. Buying influence is much more lucrative
        than working and producing for a living. The trouble is the process invites
        moral corruption. The dollars involved grow larger and larger because of the
        deficit financing and inflation that pure democracy always generates.

        Dealing with lobbying scandals while ignoring the scandal of
        unconstitutional runaway government will solve nothing. If people truly
        believe that reform is the solution, through regulating lobbyists and
        increasing congressional reporting requirements, the real problem will be
        ignored and never identified. This reform only makes things worse.

        Greater regulation of lobbyists is a dangerous and unnecessary proposition.
        If one expects to solve a problem without correctly identifying its source,
        the problem persists. The First amendment clearly states: “Congress shall
        make no laws respecting…the right of the people…to petition the government
        for a redress of grievances.” That means NO law!

        The problem of special interest government that breeds corruption comes from
        our lack of respect for the Constitution in the first place. So what do we
        do? We further violate the Constitution rather than examine it for guidance
        as to the proper role of the federal government. Laws addressing bribery,
        theft, and fraud, already on the books, are adequate to deal with the
        criminal activities associated with lobbying. New laws and regulations are
        unnecessary.

        The theft that the federal government commits against its citizens, and the
        power that Congress has assumed illegally, are the real crimes that need to
        be dealt with. In this regard we truly do need a new direction. Get rid of
        the evil tax system; the fraudulent monetary system; and the power of
        government to run our lives, the economy, and the world; and the Abramoff
        types would be exposed for the mere gnats they are. There would be a lot
        less of them, since the incentives to buy politicians would be removed.

        Even under today’s flawed system of democratic government, which is
        dedicated to redistributing property by force, a lot could be accomplished
        if government attracted men and women of good will and character. Members
        could refuse to yield to the temptations of office, and reject the path to a
        lobbying career. But it seems once government adopts the rules of
        immorality, some of the participants in the process yield to the temptation
        as well, succumbing to the belief that the new moral standards are
        acceptable.

        Today though, any new rules designed to restrain special interest favoritism
        will only push the money further under the table. Too much is at stake.
        Corporations, bureaucrats, lobbyists, and politicians have grown accustomed
        to the system, and have learned to work within it to survive. Only when the
        trough is emptied will the country wake up. Eliminating earmarks in the
        budget will not solve the problem.

        Comparing the current scandal to the “big” one, the Abramoff types are petty
        thieves. The government deals in trillions of dollars; the Abramoffs in mere
        tens of millions. Take a look at the undeclared war we’re bogged down in
        6,000 miles from our shores. We’ve spent 300 billion dollars already, but
        Nobel prize winner Joseph Stiglitz argues that the war actually will cost
        between one and two trillion dollars when it’s all over and done with.
        That’s trillions, not billions. Even that figure is unpredictable, because
        we may be in Iraq another year or ten – who knows? Considering the war had
        nothing to do with our national security, we’re talking big bucks being
        wasted and lining the pockets of many well-connected American corporations.
        Waste, fraud, stupidity, and no-bid contracts characterize the process. And
        it’s all done in the name of patriotism and national security. Dissenters
        are accused of supporting the enemy. Now this is a rip-off that a little
        tinkering with House rules and restraints on lobbyists won’t do much to
        solve.

        Think of how this undeclared war has contributed to our national deficit,
        undermined military morale and preparedness, antagonized our allies, and
        exposed us to an even greater threat from those who resent our destructive
        occupation. Claiming we have no interests in the oil of the entire Middle
        East hardly helps our credibility throughout the world.

        The system of special interest government that has evolved over the last
        several decades has given us a national debt of over eight trillion dollars,
        a debt that now expands by over 600 billion dollars each year. Our total
        obligations are estimated between fifteen and twenty trillion dollars. Most
        people realize the Social Security system, the Medicare system, and the new
        prescription drug plan are unfunded. Thousands of private pension funds are
        now being dumped on the U.S. government and American taxpayers. We are
        borrowing over 700 billion dollars each year from foreigners to finance this
        extravagance, and we now qualify as the greatest international debtor nation
        in history. Excessive consumption using borrowed money is hardly the way to
        secure a sound economy.

        Instead of reining in government spending, Congress remains oblivious to the
        financial dangers and panders to special interests by offering no resistance
        whatsoever to every request for new spending. Congress spends nearly 2 ½
        trillion dollars annually in an attempt to satisfy everyone’s demands. The
        system has generated over 200 trillion dollars of derivatives. These
        problems can’t be addressed with token leadership changes and tinkering with
        the budget. A new and a dramatic direction is required.

        As current policy further erodes the budget, special interests and members
        of Congress become even more aggressive in their efforts to capture a piece
        of the dwindling economic pie. That success is the measure of effectiveness
        that guarantees a member’s re-election.

        The biggest rip-off of all – the paper money system that is morally and
        economically equivalent to counterfeiting – is never questioned. It is the
        deceptive tool for transferring billions from the unsuspecting poor and
        middle-class to the special interest rich. And in the process, the
        deficit-propelled budget process supports the spending demands of all the
        special interests – left and right, welfare and warfare – while delaying
        payment to another day and sometimes even to another generation.

        The enormous sums spent each year to support the influential special
        interests expand exponentially, and no one really asks how it’s
        accomplished. Raising taxes to balance the budget is out of the question –
        and rightfully so. Foreigners have been generous in their willingness to
        loan us most of what we need, but even that generosity is limited and may
        well diminish in the future.

        But if the Federal Reserve did not pick up the slack and create huge amounts
        of new credit and money out of thin air, interest rates would rise and call
        a halt to the charade. The people who suffer from a depreciated dollar don’t
        understand why they suffer, while the people who benefit promote the corrupt
        system. The wealthy clean up on Wall Street, and the unsophisticated buy in
        as the market tops off. Wealth is transferred from one group to another, and
        it’s all related to the system that allows politicians and the central banks
        to create money out of thin air. It’s literally legalized counterfeiting.

        Is it any wonder jobs go overseas? True capital only comes from savings, and
        Americans save nothing. We only borrow and consume. A counterfeiter has no
        incentive to take his newly created money and build factories. The incentive
        for Americans is to buy consumer goods from other countries whose people are
        willing to save and invest in their factories and jobs. The only way we can
        continue this charade is to borrow excess dollars back from the foreign
        governments who sell us goods, and perpetuate the pretense of wealth that we
        enjoy.

        The system of money contributes significantly to the problem of illegal
        immigration. On the surface, immigrants escaping poverty in Mexico and
        Central America come here for the economic opportunity that our economy
        offers. However, the social services they receive, including education and
        medical benefits – as well as the jobs they get – are dependent on our
        perpetual indebtedness to foreign countries. When the burden of debt becomes
        excessive, this incentive to seek prosperity here in the United States will
        change.

        The prime beneficiaries of a paper money system are those who use the money
        early – governments, politicians, bankers, international corporations, and
        the military industrial complex. Those who suffer most are the ones at the
        end of the money chain – the people forced to use depreciated dollars to buy
        urgently needed goods and services to survive. And guess what? By then their
        money is worth less, prices soar, and their standard of living goes down.

        The consequences of this system, fully in place for the past thirty-four
        years, are astronomical and impossible to accurately measure. Industries go
        offshore and the jobs follow. Price inflation eats away at the middle class,
        and deficits soar while spending escalates rapidly as Congress hopes to keep
        up with the problems it created. The remaining wealth that we struggle to
        hold onto is based on debt, future tax revenues, and our ability to
        manufacture new dollars without restraint. There’s only one problem: it all
        depends on trust in the dollar, especially by foreign holders and
        purchasers. This trust will end, and signs of the beginning of the end are
        already appearing.

        During this administration the dollar has suffered severely as a consequence
        of the policy of inflating the currency to pay our bills. The dollar price
        of gold has more than doubled ($252 to $560 per ounce, a 122 % increase).
        This means the dollar has depreciated in terms of gold, the time-honored and
        reliable measurement of a nation’s currency, by an astounding 55%. The
        long-term economic health of the nation is measured by the soundness of its
        currency. Once Rome converted from a republic to an empire, she depreciated
        her currency to pay the bills. This eventually led to Rome’s downfall. That
        is exactly what America is facing unless we change our ways.

        Now this is a real scandal worth worrying about. Since it’s not yet on
        Washington’s radar screen, no attempt at addressing the problem is being
        made. Instead, we’ll be sure to make those the Constitution terms,
        “petitioners to redress their grievances” fill out more forms. We’ll make
        government officials attend more ethics courses so they can learn how to be
        more ethical.

        A free nation, as it moves toward authoritarianism, tolerates and hides a
        lot of abuse in the system. The human impulse for wealth creation is hard to
        destroy. But in the end it will happen here, if true reform of our economic,
        monetary, and political system is not accomplished.

        Whether government programs are promoted for “good” causes (helping the
        poor), or bad causes (permitting a military-industrial complex to capitalize
        on war profits), the principles of the market are undermined. Eventually
        nearly everyone becomes dependent on the system of deficits, borrowing,
        printing press money, and the special interest budget process that
        distributes loot by majority vote.

        Today, most business interests and the poor are dependent on government
        handouts. Education and medical care are almost completely controlled and
        regulated by an overpowering central government. We have come to accept our
        role as world policemen and nation builder with little question, despite the
        bad results and an inability to pay the bills.

        The question is, what will it take to bring about the changes in policy
        needed to reverse this dangerous trend? The answer is: quite a lot. And
        unfortunately it’s not on the horizon. It probably won’t come until there is
        a rejection of the dollar as the safest and strongest world currency, and a
        return to commodity money like gold and silver to restore confidence.

        The Abramoff-type scandals come and go in Washington, patched over with
        grandiose schemes of reform that amount to nothing but more government and
        congressional mischief. But our efforts should be directed toward
        eliminating the greatest of all frauds – printing press money that creates
        the political conditions breeding the vultures and leeches who feed off the
        corrupt system.

        Counterfeiting money never creates wealth – it only steals wealth from the
        unsuspecting. The Federal Reserve creation of money is exactly the same.
        Increasing the dollars in circulation can only diminish the value of each
        existing dollar. Only production and jobs can make a country wealthy in the
        long run. Today it’s obvious our country is becoming poorer and more uneasy
        as our jobs and capital go overseas.

        The Abramoff scandal can serve a useful purpose if we put it in context of
        the entire system that encourages corruption.

        If it’s seen as an isolated case of individual corruption, and not an
        expected consequence of big government run amuck, little good will come of
        it. If we understand how our system of government intervenes in our personal
        lives, the entire economy, and the internal affairs of nations around the
        world, we can understand how it generates the conditions where lobbyists
        thrive. Only then will some good come of it. Only then will we understand
        that undermining the First amendment right of the people to petition their
        government is hardly a solution to this much more serious and pervasive
        problem.

        If we’re inclined to improve conditions, we should give serious
        consideration to the following policy reforms, reforms the American people
        who cherish liberty would enthusiastically support:

        1.. No more “No Child Left Behind” legislation;
        2.. No more prescription drug programs;
        3.. No more undeclared wars;
        4.. No more nation building;
        5.. No more acting as the world policemen;
        6.. No more deficits;
        7.. Cut spending – everywhere;
        8.. No more political and partisan resolutions designed to embarrass those
        who may well have legitimate and honest disagreements with current policy;
        9.. No inferences that disagreeing with policy is unpatriotic or disloyal
        to the country;
        10.. No more pretense of budget reform while ignoring off-budget spending
        and the ever-growing fourteen appropriations bills;
        11.. Cut funding for corporate welfare, foreign aid, international NGOs,
        defense contractors, the military industrial complex, and rich corporate
        farmers before cutting welfare for the poor at home;
        12.. No more unconstitutional intrusions into the privacy of law-abiding
        American citizens;
        13.. Reconsider the hysterical demands for security over liberty by
        curtailing the ever-expanding and oppressive wars on drugs, tax violators,
        and gun ownership.
        Finally, why not try something novel, like having Congress act as an
        independent and equal branch of government? Restore the principle of the
        separation of powers, so that we can perform our duty to provide checks and
        balances on an executive branch (and an accommodating judiciary) that spies
        on Americans, glorifies the welfare state, fights undeclared wars, and
        enormously increases the national debt. Congress was not meant to be a
        rubber stamp. It’s time for a new direction.

        January 19, 2006

        Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from Texas.

        Denise

        Denise Bensusan
        SPEAK OUT ARIZONA
        A Not for Profit Community Active Publication
        http://www.frontiernet.net/~denise.bensusan/

        “Our safety, our liberty, depends upon preserving the Constitution of the
        United States as our Fathers made it inviolate. The people of the United
        States are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts, not to
        overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the
        Constitution.” - Abraham Lincoln

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        Yahoo! Groups Links
      • Derek
        Ron Paul speaks for me as well. I was wondering, does anyone know who is going to run for the US House seat being vacated at the end of this term by Jim Kolbe
        Message 3 of 21 , Jan 22, 2006
          Ron Paul speaks for me as well. I was wondering, does anyone know
          who is going to run for the US House seat being vacated at the end
          of this term by Jim Kolbe in Tucson? This might be a good time for
          a Libertarian to step up and try to win this seat. Or even if we
          could get another "Ron Paul - type Republican" that would be good
          too. Anything other than another "rubber stamp" for Bush's
          shenanigans.

          Derek Williams




          --- In arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra Price" <s@r...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Words of wisdom! He speaks for me!!
          >
          > Sandy Price
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
          > [mailto:arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denise
          Bensusan
          > Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 2:18 PM
          > To: "SPEAK OUT ARIZONA"
          > Subject: [arizonaporcupines] Searching for a New Direction
          >
          > Forwarded for your interest:
          >
          > Searching for a New Direction
          >
          > by Ron Paul
          > by Ron Paul
          >
          >
          >
          > Before the US House of Representatives, January 18, 2006
          >
          > The Abramoff scandal has been described as the biggest Washington
          scandal
          > ever: bigger than Watergate; bigger than Abscam; bigger than
          Koreagate;
          > bigger than the House banking scandal; bigger than Teapot Dome.
          Possibly so.
          > It's certainly serious and significant.
          >
          > It has prompted urgent proposals of suggested reforms to deal with
          the mess.
          > If only we have more rules and regulations, more reporting
          requirements, and
          > stricter enforcement of laws, the American people will be assured
          we mean
          > business. Ethics and character will return to the halls of
          Congress. It is
          > argued that new champions of reform should be elected to leadership
          > positions, to show how serious we are about dealing with the
          crisis of
          > confidence generated by the Abramoff affair. Then all will be
          well. But it's
          > not so simple. Maybe what we have seen so far is just the tip of
          the
          > iceberg, an insidious crisis staring us in the face that we refuse
          to
          > properly identify and deal with.
          >
          > It's been suggested we need to change course and correct the way
          Congress is
          > run. A good idea, but if we merely tinker with current attitudes
          about what
          > role the federal government ought to play in our lives, it won't
          do much to
          > solve the ethics crisis. True reform is impossible without
          addressing the
          > immorality of wealth redistribution. Merely electing new leaders
          and writing
          > more rules to regulate those who petition Congress will achieve
          nothing.
          >
          > Could it be that we're all looking in the wrong places for a
          solution to
          > recurring, constant, and pervasive corruption in government?
          Perhaps some of
          > us in Congress are mistaken about the true problem; perhaps others
          > deliberately distract us from exposing the truth about how
          miserably corrupt
          > the budget process in Congress is. Others simply are in a state of
          denial.
          > But the denial will come to an end as the Abramoff scandal reveals
          more and
          > more. It eventually will expose the scandal of the ages: how and
          to what
          > degree the American people have become indebted by the totally
          irresponsible
          > spending habits of the U.S. Congress – as encouraged by successive
          > administrations, condoned by our courts, and enjoyed by the
          recipients of
          > the largesse.
          >
          > This system of government is coming to an end – a fact that
          significantly
          > contributes to the growing anxiety of most Americans, especially
          those who
          > pay the bills and receive little in return from the corrupt system
          that has
          > evolved over the decades.
          >
          > Believe me, if everybody benefited equally there would be scant
          outcry over
          > a little bribery and influence peddling. As our country grows
          poorer and
          > more indebted, fewer people benefit. The beneficiaries are not the
          > hard-working, honest people who pay the taxes. The groups that
          master the
          > system of lobbying and special interest legislation are the ones
          who truly
          > benefit.
          >
          > The steady erosion of real wealth in this country, and the
          dependency on
          > government generated by welfarism and warfarism, presents itself
          as the
          > crisis of the ages. Lobbying scandals and the need for new
          leadership are
          > mere symptoms of a much, much deeper problem.
          >
          > There are quite a few reasons a relatively free country allows
          itself to
          > fall into such an ethical and financial mess.
          >
          > One major contributing factor for the past hundred years is our
          serious
          > misunderstanding of the dangers of pure democracy. The founders
          detested
          > democracy and avoided the use of the word in all the early
          documents. Today,
          > most Americans accept without question a policy of sacrificing
          life,
          > property, and dollars to force "democracy" on a country 6,000
          miles away.
          > This tells us how little opposition there is to "democracy." No one
          > questions the principle that a majority electorate should be
          allowed to rule
          > the country, dictate rights, and redistribute wealth.
          >
          > Our system of democracy has come to mean worshipping the notion
          that a
          > majority vote for the distribution of government largesse, loot
          confiscated
          > from the American people through an immoral tax system, is morally
          and
          > constitutionally acceptable. Under these circumstances it's no
          wonder a
          > system of runaway lobbying and special interests has developed.
          Add this to
          > the military industrial complex that developed over the decades
          due to a
          > foreign policy of perpetual war and foreign military intervention,
          and we
          > shouldn't wonder why there is such a powerful motivation to learn
          the tricks
          > of the lobbying trade – and why former members of Congress and
          their aides
          > become such high-priced commodities. Buying influence is much more
          lucrative
          > than working and producing for a living. The trouble is the
          process invites
          > moral corruption. The dollars involved grow larger and larger
          because of the
          > deficit financing and inflation that pure democracy always
          generates.
          >
          > Dealing with lobbying scandals while ignoring the scandal of
          > unconstitutional runaway government will solve nothing. If people
          truly
          > believe that reform is the solution, through regulating lobbyists
          and
          > increasing congressional reporting requirements, the real problem
          will be
          > ignored and never identified. This reform only makes things worse.
          >
          > Greater regulation of lobbyists is a dangerous and unnecessary
          proposition.
          > If one expects to solve a problem without correctly identifying
          its source,
          > the problem persists. The First amendment clearly
          states: "Congress shall
          > make no laws respecting…the right of the people…to petition the
          government
          > for a redress of grievances." That means NO law!
          >
          > The problem of special interest government that breeds corruption
          comes from
          > our lack of respect for the Constitution in the first place. So
          what do we
          > do? We further violate the Constitution rather than examine it for
          guidance
          > as to the proper role of the federal government. Laws addressing
          bribery,
          > theft, and fraud, already on the books, are adequate to deal with
          the
          > criminal activities associated with lobbying. New laws and
          regulations are
          > unnecessary.
          >
          > The theft that the federal government commits against its
          citizens, and the
          > power that Congress has assumed illegally, are the real crimes
          that need to
          > be dealt with. In this regard we truly do need a new direction.
          Get rid of
          > the evil tax system; the fraudulent monetary system; and the power
          of
          > government to run our lives, the economy, and the world; and the
          Abramoff
          > types would be exposed for the mere gnats they are. There would be
          a lot
          > less of them, since the incentives to buy politicians would be
          removed.
          >
          > Even under today's flawed system of democratic government, which is
          > dedicated to redistributing property by force, a lot could be
          accomplished
          > if government attracted men and women of good will and character.
          Members
          > could refuse to yield to the temptations of office, and reject the
          path to a
          > lobbying career. But it seems once government adopts the rules of
          > immorality, some of the participants in the process yield to the
          temptation
          > as well, succumbing to the belief that the new moral standards are
          > acceptable.
          >
          > Today though, any new rules designed to restrain special interest
          favoritism
          > will only push the money further under the table. Too much is at
          stake.
          > Corporations, bureaucrats, lobbyists, and politicians have grown
          accustomed
          > to the system, and have learned to work within it to survive. Only
          when the
          > trough is emptied will the country wake up. Eliminating earmarks
          in the
          > budget will not solve the problem.
          >
          > Comparing the current scandal to the "big" one, the Abramoff types
          are petty
          > thieves. The government deals in trillions of dollars; the
          Abramoffs in mere
          > tens of millions. Take a look at the undeclared war we're bogged
          down in
          > 6,000 miles from our shores. We've spent 300 billion dollars
          already, but
          > Nobel prize winner Joseph Stiglitz argues that the war actually
          will cost
          > between one and two trillion dollars when it's all over and done
          with.
          > That's trillions, not billions. Even that figure is unpredictable,
          because
          > we may be in Iraq another year or ten – who knows? Considering the
          war had
          > nothing to do with our national security, we're talking big bucks
          being
          > wasted and lining the pockets of many well-connected American
          corporations.
          > Waste, fraud, stupidity, and no-bid contracts characterize the
          process. And
          > it's all done in the name of patriotism and national security.
          Dissenters
          > are accused of supporting the enemy. Now this is a rip-off that a
          little
          > tinkering with House rules and restraints on lobbyists won't do
          much to
          > solve.
          >
          > Think of how this undeclared war has contributed to our national
          deficit,
          > undermined military morale and preparedness, antagonized our
          allies, and
          > exposed us to an even greater threat from those who resent our
          destructive
          > occupation. Claiming we have no interests in the oil of the entire
          Middle
          > East hardly helps our credibility throughout the world.
          >
          > The system of special interest government that has evolved over
          the last
          > several decades has given us a national debt of over eight
          trillion dollars,
          > a debt that now expands by over 600 billion dollars each year. Our
          total
          > obligations are estimated between fifteen and twenty trillion
          dollars. Most
          > people realize the Social Security system, the Medicare system,
          and the new
          > prescription drug plan are unfunded. Thousands of private pension
          funds are
          > now being dumped on the U.S. government and American taxpayers. We
          are
          > borrowing over 700 billion dollars each year from foreigners to
          finance this
          > extravagance, and we now qualify as the greatest international
          debtor nation
          > in history. Excessive consumption using borrowed money is hardly
          the way to
          > secure a sound economy.
          >
          > Instead of reining in government spending, Congress remains
          oblivious to the
          > financial dangers and panders to special interests by offering no
          resistance
          > whatsoever to every request for new spending. Congress spends
          nearly 2 ½
          > trillion dollars annually in an attempt to satisfy everyone's
          demands. The
          > system has generated over 200 trillion dollars of derivatives.
          These
          > problems can't be addressed with token leadership changes and
          tinkering with
          > the budget. A new and a dramatic direction is required.
          >
          > As current policy further erodes the budget, special interests and
          members
          > of Congress become even more aggressive in their efforts to
          capture a piece
          > of the dwindling economic pie. That success is the measure of
          effectiveness
          > that guarantees a member's re-election.
          >
          > The biggest rip-off of all – the paper money system that is
          morally and
          > economically equivalent to counterfeiting – is never questioned.
          It is the
          > deceptive tool for transferring billions from the unsuspecting
          poor and
          > middle-class to the special interest rich. And in the process, the
          > deficit-propelled budget process supports the spending demands of
          all the
          > special interests – left and right, welfare and warfare – while
          delaying
          > payment to another day and sometimes even to another generation.
          >
          > The enormous sums spent each year to support the influential
          special
          > interests expand exponentially, and no one really asks how it's
          > accomplished. Raising taxes to balance the budget is out of the
          question –
          > and rightfully so. Foreigners have been generous in their
          willingness to
          > loan us most of what we need, but even that generosity is limited
          and may
          > well diminish in the future.
          >
          > But if the Federal Reserve did not pick up the slack and create
          huge amounts
          > of new credit and money out of thin air, interest rates would rise
          and call
          > a halt to the charade. The people who suffer from a depreciated
          dollar don't
          > understand why they suffer, while the people who benefit promote
          the corrupt
          > system. The wealthy clean up on Wall Street, and the
          unsophisticated buy in
          > as the market tops off. Wealth is transferred from one group to
          another, and
          > it's all related to the system that allows politicians and the
          central banks
          > to create money out of thin air. It's literally legalized
          counterfeiting.
          >
          > Is it any wonder jobs go overseas? True capital only comes from
          savings, and
          > Americans save nothing. We only borrow and consume. A
          counterfeiter has no
          > incentive to take his newly created money and build factories. The
          incentive
          > for Americans is to buy consumer goods from other countries whose
          people are
          > willing to save and invest in their factories and jobs. The only
          way we can
          > continue this charade is to borrow excess dollars back from the
          foreign
          > governments who sell us goods, and perpetuate the pretense of
          wealth that we
          > enjoy.
          >
          > The system of money contributes significantly to the problem of
          illegal
          > immigration. On the surface, immigrants escaping poverty in Mexico
          and
          > Central America come here for the economic opportunity that our
          economy
          > offers. However, the social services they receive, including
          education and
          > medical benefits – as well as the jobs they get – are dependent on
          our
          > perpetual indebtedness to foreign countries. When the burden of
          debt becomes
          > excessive, this incentive to seek prosperity here in the United
          States will
          > change.
          >
          > The prime beneficiaries of a paper money system are those who use
          the money
          > early – governments, politicians, bankers, international
          corporations, and
          > the military industrial complex. Those who suffer most are the
          ones at the
          > end of the money chain – the people forced to use depreciated
          dollars to buy
          > urgently needed goods and services to survive. And guess what? By
          then their
          > money is worth less, prices soar, and their standard of living
          goes down.
          >
          > The consequences of this system, fully in place for the past
          thirty-four
          > years, are astronomical and impossible to accurately measure.
          Industries go
          > offshore and the jobs follow. Price inflation eats away at the
          middle class,
          > and deficits soar while spending escalates rapidly as Congress
          hopes to keep
          > up with the problems it created. The remaining wealth that we
          struggle to
          > hold onto is based on debt, future tax revenues, and our ability to
          > manufacture new dollars without restraint. There's only one
          problem: it all
          > depends on trust in the dollar, especially by foreign holders and
          > purchasers. This trust will end, and signs of the beginning of the
          end are
          > already appearing.
          >
          > During this administration the dollar has suffered severely as a
          consequence
          > of the policy of inflating the currency to pay our bills. The
          dollar price
          > of gold has more than doubled ($252 to $560 per ounce, a 122 %
          increase).
          > This means the dollar has depreciated in terms of gold, the time-
          honored and
          > reliable measurement of a nation's currency, by an astounding 55%.
          The
          > long-term economic health of the nation is measured by the
          soundness of its
          > currency. Once Rome converted from a republic to an empire, she
          depreciated
          > her currency to pay the bills. This eventually led to Rome's
          downfall. That
          > is exactly what America is facing unless we change our ways.
          >
          > Now this is a real scandal worth worrying about. Since it's not
          yet on
          > Washington's radar screen, no attempt at addressing the problem is
          being
          > made. Instead, we'll be sure to make those the Constitution terms,
          > "petitioners to redress their grievances" fill out more forms.
          We'll make
          > government officials attend more ethics courses so they can learn
          how to be
          > more ethical.
          >
          > A free nation, as it moves toward authoritarianism, tolerates and
          hides a
          > lot of abuse in the system. The human impulse for wealth creation
          is hard to
          > destroy. But in the end it will happen here, if true reform of our
          economic,
          > monetary, and political system is not accomplished.
          >
          > Whether government programs are promoted for "good" causes
          (helping the
          > poor), or bad causes (permitting a military-industrial complex to
          capitalize
          > on war profits), the principles of the market are undermined.
          Eventually
          > nearly everyone becomes dependent on the system of deficits,
          borrowing,
          > printing press money, and the special interest budget process that
          > distributes loot by majority vote.
          >
          > Today, most business interests and the poor are dependent on
          government
          > handouts. Education and medical care are almost completely
          controlled and
          > regulated by an overpowering central government. We have come to
          accept our
          > role as world policemen and nation builder with little question,
          despite the
          > bad results and an inability to pay the bills.
          >
          > The question is, what will it take to bring about the changes in
          policy
          > needed to reverse this dangerous trend? The answer is: quite a
          lot. And
          > unfortunately it's not on the horizon. It probably won't come
          until there is
          > a rejection of the dollar as the safest and strongest world
          currency, and a
          > return to commodity money like gold and silver to restore
          confidence.
          >
          > The Abramoff-type scandals come and go in Washington, patched over
          with
          > grandiose schemes of reform that amount to nothing but more
          government and
          > congressional mischief. But our efforts should be directed toward
          > eliminating the greatest of all frauds – printing press money that
          creates
          > the political conditions breeding the vultures and leeches who
          feed off the
          > corrupt system.
          >
          > Counterfeiting money never creates wealth – it only steals wealth
          from the
          > unsuspecting. The Federal Reserve creation of money is exactly the
          same.
          > Increasing the dollars in circulation can only diminish the value
          of each
          > existing dollar. Only production and jobs can make a country
          wealthy in the
          > long run. Today it's obvious our country is becoming poorer and
          more uneasy
          > as our jobs and capital go overseas.
          >
          > The Abramoff scandal can serve a useful purpose if we put it in
          context of
          > the entire system that encourages corruption.
          >
          > If it's seen as an isolated case of individual corruption, and not
          an
          > expected consequence of big government run amuck, little good will
          come of
          > it. If we understand how our system of government intervenes in
          our personal
          > lives, the entire economy, and the internal affairs of nations
          around the
          > world, we can understand how it generates the conditions where
          lobbyists
          > thrive. Only then will some good come of it. Only then will we
          understand
          > that undermining the First amendment right of the people to
          petition their
          > government is hardly a solution to this much more serious and
          pervasive
          > problem.
          >
          > If we're inclined to improve conditions, we should give serious
          > consideration to the following policy reforms, reforms the
          American people
          > who cherish liberty would enthusiastically support:
          >
          > 1.. No more "No Child Left Behind" legislation;
          > 2.. No more prescription drug programs;
          > 3.. No more undeclared wars;
          > 4.. No more nation building;
          > 5.. No more acting as the world policemen;
          > 6.. No more deficits;
          > 7.. Cut spending – everywhere;
          > 8.. No more political and partisan resolutions designed to
          embarrass those
          > who may well have legitimate and honest disagreements with current
          policy;
          > 9.. No inferences that disagreeing with policy is unpatriotic or
          disloyal
          > to the country;
          > 10.. No more pretense of budget reform while ignoring off-budget
          spending
          > and the ever-growing fourteen appropriations bills;
          > 11.. Cut funding for corporate welfare, foreign aid,
          international NGOs,
          > defense contractors, the military industrial complex, and rich
          corporate
          > farmers before cutting welfare for the poor at home;
          > 12.. No more unconstitutional intrusions into the privacy of law-
          abiding
          > American citizens;
          > 13.. Reconsider the hysterical demands for security over liberty
          by
          > curtailing the ever-expanding and oppressive wars on drugs, tax
          violators,
          > and gun ownership.
          > Finally, why not try something novel, like having Congress act as
          an
          > independent and equal branch of government? Restore the principle
          of the
          > separation of powers, so that we can perform our duty to provide
          checks and
          > balances on an executive branch (and an accommodating judiciary)
          that spies
          > on Americans, glorifies the welfare state, fights undeclared wars,
          and
          > enormously increases the national debt. Congress was not meant to
          be a
          > rubber stamp. It's time for a new direction.
          >
          > January 19, 2006
          >
          > Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from Texas.
          >
          > Denise
          >
          > Denise Bensusan
          > SPEAK OUT ARIZONA
          > A Not for Profit Community Active Publication
          > http://www.frontiernet.net/~denise.bensusan/
          >
          > "Our safety, our liberty, depends upon preserving the Constitution
          of the
          > United States as our Fathers made it inviolate. The people of the
          United
          > States are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts,
          not to
          > overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert
          the
          > Constitution." - Abraham Lincoln
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
        • Denise Bensusan
          Heck..I think he should run for president!!! I have not seen too much that Ron Paul speaks about that I disagree with. ... From: Derek To:
          Message 4 of 21 , Jan 22, 2006
            Heck..I think he should run for president!!! I have not seen too much that Ron Paul speaks about that I disagree with.
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Derek
            To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 9:59 AM
            Subject: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction


            Ron Paul speaks for me as well. I was wondering, does anyone know
            who is going to run for the US House seat being vacated at the end
            of this term by Jim Kolbe in Tucson? This might be a good time for
            a Libertarian to step up and try to win this seat. Or even if we
            could get another "Ron Paul - type Republican" that would be good
            too. Anything other than another "rubber stamp" for Bush's
            shenanigans.

            Derek Williams




            --- In arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra Price" <s@r...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Words of wisdom! He speaks for me!!
            >
            > Sandy Price
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
            > [mailto:arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denise
            Bensusan
            > Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 2:18 PM
            > To: "SPEAK OUT ARIZONA"
            > Subject: [arizonaporcupines] Searching for a New Direction
            >
            > Forwarded for your interest:
            >
            > Searching for a New Direction
            >
            > by Ron Paul
            > by Ron Paul
            >
            >
            >
            > Before the US House of Representatives, January 18, 2006
            >
            > The Abramoff scandal has been described as the biggest Washington
            scandal
            > ever: bigger than Watergate; bigger than Abscam; bigger than
            Koreagate;
            > bigger than the House banking scandal; bigger than Teapot Dome.
            Possibly so.
            > It's certainly serious and significant.
            >
            > It has prompted urgent proposals of suggested reforms to deal with
            the mess.
            > If only we have more rules and regulations, more reporting
            requirements, and
            > stricter enforcement of laws, the American people will be assured
            we mean
            > business. Ethics and character will return to the halls of
            Congress. It is
            > argued that new champions of reform should be elected to leadership
            > positions, to show how serious we are about dealing with the
            crisis of
            > confidence generated by the Abramoff affair. Then all will be
            well. But it's
            > not so simple. Maybe what we have seen so far is just the tip of
            the
            > iceberg, an insidious crisis staring us in the face that we refuse
            to
            > properly identify and deal with.
            >
            > It's been suggested we need to change course and correct the way
            Congress is
            > run. A good idea, but if we merely tinker with current attitudes
            about what
            > role the federal government ought to play in our lives, it won't
            do much to
            > solve the ethics crisis. True reform is impossible without
            addressing the
            > immorality of wealth redistribution. Merely electing new leaders
            and writing
            > more rules to regulate those who petition Congress will achieve
            nothing.
            >
            > Could it be that we're all looking in the wrong places for a
            solution to
            > recurring, constant, and pervasive corruption in government?
            Perhaps some of
            > us in Congress are mistaken about the true problem; perhaps others
            > deliberately distract us from exposing the truth about how
            miserably corrupt
            > the budget process in Congress is. Others simply are in a state of
            denial.
            > But the denial will come to an end as the Abramoff scandal reveals
            more and
            > more. It eventually will expose the scandal of the ages: how and
            to what
            > degree the American people have become indebted by the totally
            irresponsible
            > spending habits of the U.S. Congress - as encouraged by successive
            > administrations, condoned by our courts, and enjoyed by the
            recipients of
            > the largesse.
            >
            > This system of government is coming to an end - a fact that
            significantly
            > contributes to the growing anxiety of most Americans, especially
            those who
            > pay the bills and receive little in return from the corrupt system
            that has
            > evolved over the decades.
            >
            > Believe me, if everybody benefited equally there would be scant
            outcry over
            > a little bribery and influence peddling. As our country grows
            poorer and
            > more indebted, fewer people benefit. The beneficiaries are not the
            > hard-working, honest people who pay the taxes. The groups that
            master the
            > system of lobbying and special interest legislation are the ones
            who truly
            > benefit.
            >
            > The steady erosion of real wealth in this country, and the
            dependency on
            > government generated by welfarism and warfarism, presents itself
            as the
            > crisis of the ages. Lobbying scandals and the need for new
            leadership are
            > mere symptoms of a much, much deeper problem.
            >
            > There are quite a few reasons a relatively free country allows
            itself to
            > fall into such an ethical and financial mess.
            >
            > One major contributing factor for the past hundred years is our
            serious
            > misunderstanding of the dangers of pure democracy. The founders
            detested
            > democracy and avoided the use of the word in all the early
            documents. Today,
            > most Americans accept without question a policy of sacrificing
            life,
            > property, and dollars to force "democracy" on a country 6,000
            miles away.
            > This tells us how little opposition there is to "democracy." No one
            > questions the principle that a majority electorate should be
            allowed to rule
            > the country, dictate rights, and redistribute wealth.
            >
            > Our system of democracy has come to mean worshipping the notion
            that a
            > majority vote for the distribution of government largesse, loot
            confiscated
            > from the American people through an immoral tax system, is morally
            and
            > constitutionally acceptable. Under these circumstances it's no
            wonder a
            > system of runaway lobbying and special interests has developed.
            Add this to
            > the military industrial complex that developed over the decades
            due to a
            > foreign policy of perpetual war and foreign military intervention,
            and we
            > shouldn't wonder why there is such a powerful motivation to learn
            the tricks
            > of the lobbying trade - and why former members of Congress and
            their aides
            > become such high-priced commodities. Buying influence is much more
            lucrative
            > than working and producing for a living. The trouble is the
            process invites
            > moral corruption. The dollars involved grow larger and larger
            because of the
            > deficit financing and inflation that pure democracy always
            generates.
            >
            > Dealing with lobbying scandals while ignoring the scandal of
            > unconstitutional runaway government will solve nothing. If people
            truly
            > believe that reform is the solution, through regulating lobbyists
            and
            > increasing congressional reporting requirements, the real problem
            will be
            > ignored and never identified. This reform only makes things worse.
            >
            > Greater regulation of lobbyists is a dangerous and unnecessary
            proposition.
            > If one expects to solve a problem without correctly identifying
            its source,
            > the problem persists. The First amendment clearly
            states: "Congress shall
            > make no laws respecting.the right of the people.to petition the
            government
            > for a redress of grievances." That means NO law!
            >
            > The problem of special interest government that breeds corruption
            comes from
            > our lack of respect for the Constitution in the first place. So
            what do we
            > do? We further violate the Constitution rather than examine it for
            guidance
            > as to the proper role of the federal government. Laws addressing
            bribery,
            > theft, and fraud, already on the books, are adequate to deal with
            the
            > criminal activities associated with lobbying. New laws and
            regulations are
            > unnecessary.
            >
            > The theft that the federal government commits against its
            citizens, and the
            > power that Congress has assumed illegally, are the real crimes
            that need to
            > be dealt with. In this regard we truly do need a new direction.
            Get rid of
            > the evil tax system; the fraudulent monetary system; and the power
            of
            > government to run our lives, the economy, and the world; and the
            Abramoff
            > types would be exposed for the mere gnats they are. There would be
            a lot
            > less of them, since the incentives to buy politicians would be
            removed.
            >
            > Even under today's flawed system of democratic government, which is
            > dedicated to redistributing property by force, a lot could be
            accomplished
            > if government attracted men and women of good will and character.
            Members
            > could refuse to yield to the temptations of office, and reject the
            path to a
            > lobbying career. But it seems once government adopts the rules of
            > immorality, some of the participants in the process yield to the
            temptation
            > as well, succumbing to the belief that the new moral standards are
            > acceptable.
            >
            > Today though, any new rules designed to restrain special interest
            favoritism
            > will only push the money further under the table. Too much is at
            stake.
            > Corporations, bureaucrats, lobbyists, and politicians have grown
            accustomed
            > to the system, and have learned to work within it to survive. Only
            when the
            > trough is emptied will the country wake up. Eliminating earmarks
            in the
            > budget will not solve the problem.
            >
            > Comparing the current scandal to the "big" one, the Abramoff types
            are petty
            > thieves. The government deals in trillions of dollars; the
            Abramoffs in mere
            > tens of millions. Take a look at the undeclared war we're bogged
            down in
            > 6,000 miles from our shores. We've spent 300 billion dollars
            already, but
            > Nobel prize winner Joseph Stiglitz argues that the war actually
            will cost
            > between one and two trillion dollars when it's all over and done
            with.
            > That's trillions, not billions. Even that figure is unpredictable,
            because
            > we may be in Iraq another year or ten - who knows? Considering the
            war had
            > nothing to do with our national security, we're talking big bucks
            being
            > wasted and lining the pockets of many well-connected American
            corporations.
            > Waste, fraud, stupidity, and no-bid contracts characterize the
            process. And
            > it's all done in the name of patriotism and national security.
            Dissenters
            > are accused of supporting the enemy. Now this is a rip-off that a
            little
            > tinkering with House rules and restraints on lobbyists won't do
            much to
            > solve.
            >
            > Think of how this undeclared war has contributed to our national
            deficit,
            > undermined military morale and preparedness, antagonized our
            allies, and
            > exposed us to an even greater threat from those who resent our
            destructive
            > occupation. Claiming we have no interests in the oil of the entire
            Middle
            > East hardly helps our credibility throughout the world.
            >
            > The system of special interest government that has evolved over
            the last
            > several decades has given us a national debt of over eight
            trillion dollars,
            > a debt that now expands by over 600 billion dollars each year. Our
            total
            > obligations are estimated between fifteen and twenty trillion
            dollars. Most
            > people realize the Social Security system, the Medicare system,
            and the new
            > prescription drug plan are unfunded. Thousands of private pension
            funds are
            > now being dumped on the U.S. government and American taxpayers. We
            are
            > borrowing over 700 billion dollars each year from foreigners to
            finance this
            > extravagance, and we now qualify as the greatest international
            debtor nation
            > in history. Excessive consumption using borrowed money is hardly
            the way to
            > secure a sound economy.
            >
            > Instead of reining in government spending, Congress remains
            oblivious to the
            > financial dangers and panders to special interests by offering no
            resistance
            > whatsoever to every request for new spending. Congress spends
            nearly 2 ½
            > trillion dollars annually in an attempt to satisfy everyone's
            demands. The
            > system has generated over 200 trillion dollars of derivatives.
            These
            > problems can't be addressed with token leadership changes and
            tinkering with
            > the budget. A new and a dramatic direction is required.
            >
            > As current policy further erodes the budget, special interests and
            members
            > of Congress become even more aggressive in their efforts to
            capture a piece
            > of the dwindling economic pie. That success is the measure of
            effectiveness
            > that guarantees a member's re-election.
            >
            > The biggest rip-off of all - the paper money system that is
            morally and
            > economically equivalent to counterfeiting - is never questioned.
            It is the
            > deceptive tool for transferring billions from the unsuspecting
            poor and
            > middle-class to the special interest rich. And in the process, the
            > deficit-propelled budget process supports the spending demands of
            all the
            > special interests - left and right, welfare and warfare - while
            delaying
            > payment to another day and sometimes even to another generation.
            >
            > The enormous sums spent each year to support the influential
            special
            > interests expand exponentially, and no one really asks how it's
            > accomplished. Raising taxes to balance the budget is out of the
            question -
            > and rightfully so. Foreigners have been generous in their
            willingness to
            > loan us most of what we need, but even that generosity is limited
            and may
            > well diminish in the future.
            >
            > But if the Federal Reserve did not pick up the slack and create
            huge amounts
            > of new credit and money out of thin air, interest rates would rise
            and call
            > a halt to the charade. The people who suffer from a depreciated
            dollar don't
            > understand why they suffer, while the people who benefit promote
            the corrupt
            > system. The wealthy clean up on Wall Street, and the
            unsophisticated buy in
            > as the market tops off. Wealth is transferred from one group to
            another, and
            > it's all related to the system that allows politicians and the
            central banks
            > to create money out of thin air. It's literally legalized
            counterfeiting.
            >
            > Is it any wonder jobs go overseas? True capital only comes from
            savings, and
            > Americans save nothing. We only borrow and consume. A
            counterfeiter has no
            > incentive to take his newly created money and build factories. The
            incentive
            > for Americans is to buy consumer goods from other countries whose
            people are
            > willing to save and invest in their factories and jobs. The only
            way we can
            > continue this charade is to borrow excess dollars back from the
            foreign
            > governments who sell us goods, and perpetuate the pretense of
            wealth that we
            > enjoy.
            >
            > The system of money contributes significantly to the problem of
            illegal
            > immigration. On the surface, immigrants escaping poverty in Mexico
            and
            > Central America come here for the economic opportunity that our
            economy
            > offers. However, the social services they receive, including
            education and
            > medical benefits - as well as the jobs they get - are dependent on
            our
            > perpetual indebtedness to foreign countries. When the burden of
            debt becomes
            > excessive, this incentive to seek prosperity here in the United
            States will
            > change.
            >
            > The prime beneficiaries of a paper money system are those who use
            the money
            > early - governments, politicians, bankers, international
            corporations, and
            > the military industrial complex. Those who suffer most are the
            ones at the
            > end of the money chain - the people forced to use depreciated
            dollars to buy
            > urgently needed goods and services to survive. And guess what? By
            then their
            > money is worth less, prices soar, and their standard of living
            goes down.
            >
            > The consequences of this system, fully in place for the past
            thirty-four
            > years, are astronomical and impossible to accurately measure.
            Industries go
            > offshore and the jobs follow. Price inflation eats away at the
            middle class,
            > and deficits soar while spending escalates rapidly as Congress
            hopes to keep
            > up with the problems it created. The remaining wealth that we
            struggle to
            > hold onto is based on debt, future tax revenues, and our ability to
            > manufacture new dollars without restraint. There's only one
            problem: it all
            > depends on trust in the dollar, especially by foreign holders and
            > purchasers. This trust will end, and signs of the beginning of the
            end are
            > already appearing.
            >
            > During this administration the dollar has suffered severely as a
            consequence
            > of the policy of inflating the currency to pay our bills. The
            dollar price
            > of gold has more than doubled ($252 to $560 per ounce, a 122 %
            increase).
            > This means the dollar has depreciated in terms of gold, the time-
            honored and
            > reliable measurement of a nation's currency, by an astounding 55%.
            The
            > long-term economic health of the nation is measured by the
            soundness of its
            > currency. Once Rome converted from a republic to an empire, she
            depreciated
            > her currency to pay the bills. This eventually led to Rome's
            downfall. That
            > is exactly what America is facing unless we change our ways.
            >
            > Now this is a real scandal worth worrying about. Since it's not
            yet on
            > Washington's radar screen, no attempt at addressing the problem is
            being
            > made. Instead, we'll be sure to make those the Constitution terms,
            > "petitioners to redress their grievances" fill out more forms.
            We'll make
            > government officials attend more ethics courses so they can learn
            how to be
            > more ethical.
            >
            > A free nation, as it moves toward authoritarianism, tolerates and
            hides a
            > lot of abuse in the system. The human impulse for wealth creation
            is hard to
            > destroy. But in the end it will happen here, if true reform of our
            economic,
            > monetary, and political system is not accomplished.
            >
            > Whether government programs are promoted for "good" causes
            (helping the
            > poor), or bad causes (permitting a military-industrial complex to
            capitalize
            > on war profits), the principles of the market are undermined.
            Eventually
            > nearly everyone becomes dependent on the system of deficits,
            borrowing,
            > printing press money, and the special interest budget process that
            > distributes loot by majority vote.
            >
            > Today, most business interests and the poor are dependent on
            government
            > handouts. Education and medical care are almost completely
            controlled and
            > regulated by an overpowering central government. We have come to
            accept our
            > role as world policemen and nation builder with little question,
            despite the
            > bad results and an inability to pay the bills.
            >
            > The question is, what will it take to bring about the changes in
            policy
            > needed to reverse this dangerous trend? The answer is: quite a
            lot. And
            > unfortunately it's not on the horizon. It probably won't come
            until there is
            > a rejection of the dollar as the safest and strongest world
            currency, and a
            > return to commodity money like gold and silver to restore
            confidence.
            >
            > The Abramoff-type scandals come and go in Washington, patched over
            with
            > grandiose schemes of reform that amount to nothing but more
            government and
            > congressional mischief. But our efforts should be directed toward
            > eliminating the greatest of all frauds - printing press money that
            creates
            > the political conditions breeding the vultures and leeches who
            feed off the
            > corrupt system.
            >
            > Counterfeiting money never creates wealth - it only steals wealth
            from the
            > unsuspecting. The Federal Reserve creation of money is exactly the
            same.
            > Increasing the dollars in circulation can only diminish the value
            of each
            > existing dollar. Only production and jobs can make a country
            wealthy in the
            > long run. Today it's obvious our country is becoming poorer and
            more uneasy
            > as our jobs and capital go overseas.
            >
            > The Abramoff scandal can serve a useful purpose if we put it in
            context of
            > the entire system that encourages corruption.
            >
            > If it's seen as an isolated case of individual corruption, and not
            an
            > expected consequence of big government run amuck, little good will
            come of
            > it. If we understand how our system of government intervenes in
            our personal
            > lives, the entire economy, and the internal affairs of nations
            around the
            > world, we can understand how it generates the conditions where
            lobbyists
            > thrive. Only then will some good come of it. Only then will we
            understand
            > that undermining the First amendment right of the people to
            petition their
            > government is hardly a solution to this much more serious and
            pervasive
            > problem.
            >
            > If we're inclined to improve conditions, we should give serious
            > consideration to the following policy reforms, reforms the
            American people
            > who cherish liberty would enthusiastically support:
            >
            > 1.. No more "No Child Left Behind" legislation;
            > 2.. No more prescription drug programs;
            > 3.. No more undeclared wars;
            > 4.. No more nation building;
            > 5.. No more acting as the world policemen;
            > 6.. No more deficits;
            > 7.. Cut spending - everywhere;
            > 8.. No more political and partisan resolutions designed to
            embarrass those
            > who may well have legitimate and honest disagreements with current
            policy;
            > 9.. No inferences that disagreeing with policy is unpatriotic or
            disloyal
            > to the country;
            > 10.. No more pretense of budget reform while ignoring off-budget
            spending
            > and the ever-growing fourteen appropriations bills;
            > 11.. Cut funding for corporate welfare, foreign aid,
            international NGOs,
            > defense contractors, the military industrial complex, and rich
            corporate
            > farmers before cutting welfare for the poor at home;
            > 12.. No more unconstitutional intrusions into the privacy of law-
            abiding
            > American citizens;
            > 13.. Reconsider the hysterical demands for security over liberty
            by
            > curtailing the ever-expanding and oppressive wars on drugs, tax
            violators,
            > and gun ownership.
            > Finally, why not try something novel, like having Congress act as
            an
            > independent and equal branch of government? Restore the principle
            of the
            > separation of powers, so that we can perform our duty to provide
            checks and
            > balances on an executive branch (and an accommodating judiciary)
            that spies
            > on Americans, glorifies the welfare state, fights undeclared wars,
            and
            > enormously increases the national debt. Congress was not meant to
            be a
            > rubber stamp. It's time for a new direction.
            >
            > January 19, 2006
            >
            > Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from Texas.
            >
            > Denise
            >
            > Denise Bensusan
            > SPEAK OUT ARIZONA
            > A Not for Profit Community Active Publication
            > http://www.frontiernet.net/~denise.bensusan/
            >
            > "Our safety, our liberty, depends upon preserving the Constitution
            of the
            > United States as our Fathers made it inviolate. The people of the
            United
            > States are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts,
            not to
            > overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert
            the
            > Constitution." - Abraham Lincoln
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >







            Yahoo! Groups Links









            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Sandra Price
            Do we even have an active LP organization here? I attended the LP Convention in Tucson in 2004 and was not impressed with the choices of candidates. From
            Message 5 of 21 , Jan 22, 2006
              Do we even have an active LP organization here? I attended the LP
              Convention in Tucson in 2004 and was not impressed with the choices of
              candidates. From what I understand, the LP will not vote, even for
              themselves. To hell with that!



              Sandy Price



              -----Original Message-----
              From: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denise Bensusan
              Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 12:53 PM
              To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction



              Heck..I think he should run for president!!! I have not seen too much that
              Ron Paul speaks about that I disagree with.
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Derek
              To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 9:59 AM
              Subject: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction


              Ron Paul speaks for me as well. I was wondering, does anyone know
              who is going to run for the US House seat being vacated at the end
              of this term by Jim Kolbe in Tucson? This might be a good time for
              a Libertarian to step up and try to win this seat. Or even if we
              could get another "Ron Paul - type Republican" that would be good
              too. Anything other than another "rubber stamp" for Bush's
              shenanigans.

              Derek Williams




              --- In arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra Price" <s@r...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Words of wisdom! He speaks for me!!
              >
              > Sandy Price
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
              > [mailto:arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denise
              Bensusan
              > Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 2:18 PM
              > To: "SPEAK OUT ARIZONA"
              > Subject: [arizonaporcupines] Searching for a New Direction
              >
              > Forwarded for your interest:
              >
              > Searching for a New Direction
              >
              > by Ron Paul
              > by Ron Paul
              >
              >
              >
              > Before the US House of Representatives, January 18, 2006
              >
              > The Abramoff scandal has been described as the biggest Washington
              scandal
              > ever: bigger than Watergate; bigger than Abscam; bigger than
              Koreagate;
              > bigger than the House banking scandal; bigger than Teapot Dome.
              Possibly so.
              > It's certainly serious and significant.
              >
              > It has prompted urgent proposals of suggested reforms to deal with
              the mess.
              > If only we have more rules and regulations, more reporting
              requirements, and
              > stricter enforcement of laws, the American people will be assured
              we mean
              > business. Ethics and character will return to the halls of
              Congress. It is
              > argued that new champions of reform should be elected to leadership
              > positions, to show how serious we are about dealing with the
              crisis of
              > confidence generated by the Abramoff affair. Then all will be
              well. But it's
              > not so simple. Maybe what we have seen so far is just the tip of
              the
              > iceberg, an insidious crisis staring us in the face that we refuse
              to
              > properly identify and deal with.
              >
              > It's been suggested we need to change course and correct the way
              Congress is
              > run. A good idea, but if we merely tinker with current attitudes
              about what
              > role the federal government ought to play in our lives, it won't
              do much to
              > solve the ethics crisis. True reform is impossible without
              addressing the
              > immorality of wealth redistribution. Merely electing new leaders
              and writing
              > more rules to regulate those who petition Congress will achieve
              nothing.
              >
              > Could it be that we're all looking in the wrong places for a
              solution to
              > recurring, constant, and pervasive corruption in government?
              Perhaps some of
              > us in Congress are mistaken about the true problem; perhaps others
              > deliberately distract us from exposing the truth about how
              miserably corrupt
              > the budget process in Congress is. Others simply are in a state of
              denial.
              > But the denial will come to an end as the Abramoff scandal reveals
              more and
              > more. It eventually will expose the scandal of the ages: how and
              to what
              > degree the American people have become indebted by the totally
              irresponsible
              > spending habits of the U.S. Congress - as encouraged by successive
              > administrations, condoned by our courts, and enjoyed by the
              recipients of
              > the largesse.
              >
              > This system of government is coming to an end - a fact that
              significantly
              > contributes to the growing anxiety of most Americans, especially
              those who
              > pay the bills and receive little in return from the corrupt system
              that has
              > evolved over the decades.
              >
              > Believe me, if everybody benefited equally there would be scant
              outcry over
              > a little bribery and influence peddling. As our country grows
              poorer and
              > more indebted, fewer people benefit. The beneficiaries are not the
              > hard-working, honest people who pay the taxes. The groups that
              master the
              > system of lobbying and special interest legislation are the ones
              who truly
              > benefit.
              >
              > The steady erosion of real wealth in this country, and the
              dependency on
              > government generated by welfarism and warfarism, presents itself
              as the
              > crisis of the ages. Lobbying scandals and the need for new
              leadership are
              > mere symptoms of a much, much deeper problem.
              >
              > There are quite a few reasons a relatively free country allows
              itself to
              > fall into such an ethical and financial mess.
              >
              > One major contributing factor for the past hundred years is our
              serious
              > misunderstanding of the dangers of pure democracy. The founders
              detested
              > democracy and avoided the use of the word in all the early
              documents. Today,
              > most Americans accept without question a policy of sacrificing
              life,
              > property, and dollars to force "democracy" on a country 6,000
              miles away.
              > This tells us how little opposition there is to "democracy." No one
              > questions the principle that a majority electorate should be
              allowed to rule
              > the country, dictate rights, and redistribute wealth.
              >
              > Our system of democracy has come to mean worshipping the notion
              that a
              > majority vote for the distribution of government largesse, loot
              confiscated
              > from the American people through an immoral tax system, is morally
              and
              > constitutionally acceptable. Under these circumstances it's no
              wonder a
              > system of runaway lobbying and special interests has developed.
              Add this to
              > the military industrial complex that developed over the decades
              due to a
              > foreign policy of perpetual war and foreign military intervention,
              and we
              > shouldn't wonder why there is such a powerful motivation to learn
              the tricks
              > of the lobbying trade - and why former members of Congress and
              their aides
              > become such high-priced commodities. Buying influence is much more
              lucrative
              > than working and producing for a living. The trouble is the
              process invites
              > moral corruption. The dollars involved grow larger and larger
              because of the
              > deficit financing and inflation that pure democracy always
              generates.
              >
              > Dealing with lobbying scandals while ignoring the scandal of
              > unconstitutional runaway government will solve nothing. If people
              truly
              > believe that reform is the solution, through regulating lobbyists
              and
              > increasing congressional reporting requirements, the real problem
              will be
              > ignored and never identified. This reform only makes things worse.
              >
              > Greater regulation of lobbyists is a dangerous and unnecessary
              proposition.
              > If one expects to solve a problem without correctly identifying
              its source,
              > the problem persists. The First amendment clearly
              states: "Congress shall
              > make no laws respecting.the right of the people.to petition the
              government
              > for a redress of grievances." That means NO law!
              >
              > The problem of special interest government that breeds corruption
              comes from
              > our lack of respect for the Constitution in the first place. So
              what do we
              > do? We further violate the Constitution rather than examine it for
              guidance
              > as to the proper role of the federal government. Laws addressing
              bribery,
              > theft, and fraud, already on the books, are adequate to deal with
              the
              > criminal activities associated with lobbying. New laws and
              regulations are
              > unnecessary.
              >
              > The theft that the federal government commits against its
              citizens, and the
              > power that Congress has assumed illegally, are the real crimes
              that need to
              > be dealt with. In this regard we truly do need a new direction.
              Get rid of
              > the evil tax system; the fraudulent monetary system; and the power
              of
              > government to run our lives, the economy, and the world; and the
              Abramoff
              > types would be exposed for the mere gnats they are. There would be
              a lot
              > less of them, since the incentives to buy politicians would be
              removed.
              >
              > Even under today's flawed system of democratic government, which is
              > dedicated to redistributing property by force, a lot could be
              accomplished
              > if government attracted men and women of good will and character.
              Members
              > could refuse to yield to the temptations of office, and reject the
              path to a
              > lobbying career. But it seems once government adopts the rules of
              > immorality, some of the participants in the process yield to the
              temptation
              > as well, succumbing to the belief that the new moral standards are
              > acceptable.
              >
              > Today though, any new rules designed to restrain special interest
              favoritism
              > will only push the money further under the table. Too much is at
              stake.
              > Corporations, bureaucrats, lobbyists, and politicians have grown
              accustomed
              > to the system, and have learned to work within it to survive. Only
              when the
              > trough is emptied will the country wake up. Eliminating earmarks
              in the
              > budget will not solve the problem.
              >
              > Comparing the current scandal to the "big" one, the Abramoff types
              are petty
              > thieves. The government deals in trillions of dollars; the
              Abramoffs in mere
              > tens of millions. Take a look at the undeclared war we're bogged
              down in
              > 6,000 miles from our shores. We've spent 300 billion dollars
              already, but
              > Nobel prize winner Joseph Stiglitz argues that the war actually
              will cost
              > between one and two trillion dollars when it's all over and done
              with.
              > That's trillions, not billions. Even that figure is unpredictable,
              because
              > we may be in Iraq another year or ten - who knows? Considering the
              war had
              > nothing to do with our national security, we're talking big bucks
              being
              > wasted and lining the pockets of many well-connected American
              corporations.
              > Waste, fraud, stupidity, and no-bid contracts characterize the
              process. And
              > it's all done in the name of patriotism and national security.
              Dissenters
              > are accused of supporting the enemy. Now this is a rip-off that a
              little
              > tinkering with House rules and restraints on lobbyists won't do
              much to
              > solve.
              >
              > Think of how this undeclared war has contributed to our national
              deficit,
              > undermined military morale and preparedness, antagonized our
              allies, and
              > exposed us to an even greater threat from those who resent our
              destructive
              > occupation. Claiming we have no interests in the oil of the entire
              Middle
              > East hardly helps our credibility throughout the world.
              >
              > The system of special interest government that has evolved over
              the last
              > several decades has given us a national debt of over eight
              trillion dollars,
              > a debt that now expands by over 600 billion dollars each year. Our
              total
              > obligations are estimated between fifteen and twenty trillion
              dollars. Most
              > people realize the Social Security system, the Medicare system,
              and the new
              > prescription drug plan are unfunded. Thousands of private pension
              funds are
              > now being dumped on the U.S. government and American taxpayers. We
              are
              > borrowing over 700 billion dollars each year from foreigners to
              finance this
              > extravagance, and we now qualify as the greatest international
              debtor nation
              > in history. Excessive consumption using borrowed money is hardly
              the way to
              > secure a sound economy.
              >
              > Instead of reining in government spending, Congress remains
              oblivious to the
              > financial dangers and panders to special interests by offering no
              resistance
              > whatsoever to every request for new spending. Congress spends
              nearly 2 ½
              > trillion dollars annually in an attempt to satisfy everyone's
              demands. The
              > system has generated over 200 trillion dollars of derivatives.
              These
              > problems can't be addressed with token leadership changes and
              tinkering with
              > the budget. A new and a dramatic direction is required.
              >
              > As current policy further erodes the budget, special interests and
              members
              > of Congress become even more aggressive in their efforts to
              capture a piece
              > of the dwindling economic pie. That success is the measure of
              effectiveness
              > that guarantees a member's re-election.
              >
              > The biggest rip-off of all - the paper money system that is
              morally and
              > economically equivalent to counterfeiting - is never questioned.
              It is the
              > deceptive tool for transferring billions from the unsuspecting
              poor and
              > middle-class to the special interest rich. And in the process, the
              > deficit-propelled budget process supports the spending demands of
              all the
              > special interests - left and right, welfare and warfare - while
              delaying
              > payment to another day and sometimes even to another generation.
              >
              > The enormous sums spent each year to support the influential
              special
              > interests expand exponentially, and no one really asks how it's
              > accomplished. Raising taxes to balance the budget is out of the
              question -
              > and rightfully so. Foreigners have been generous in their
              willingness to
              > loan us most of what we need, but even that generosity is limited
              and may
              > well diminish in the future.
              >
              > But if the Federal Reserve did not pick up the slack and create
              huge amounts
              > of new credit and money out of thin air, interest rates would rise
              and call
              > a halt to the charade. The people who suffer from a depreciated
              dollar don't
              > understand why they suffer, while the people who benefit promote
              the corrupt
              > system. The wealthy clean up on Wall Street, and the
              unsophisticated buy in
              > as the market tops off. Wealth is transferred from one group to
              another, and
              > it's all related to the system that allows politicians and the
              central banks
              > to create money out of thin air. It's literally legalized
              counterfeiting.
              >
              > Is it any wonder jobs go overseas? True capital only comes from
              savings, and
              > Americans save nothing. We only borrow and consume. A
              counterfeiter has no
              > incentive to take his newly created money and build factories. The
              incentive
              > for Americans is to buy consumer goods from other countries whose
              people are
              > willing to save and invest in their factories and jobs. The only
              way we can
              > continue this charade is to borrow excess dollars back from the
              foreign
              > governments who sell us goods, and perpetuate the pretense of
              wealth that we
              > enjoy.
              >
              > The system of money contributes significantly to the problem of
              illegal
              > immigration. On the surface, immigrants escaping poverty in Mexico
              and
              > Central America come here for the economic opportunity that our
              economy
              > offers. However, the social services they receive, including
              education and
              > medical benefits - as well as the jobs they get - are dependent on
              our
              > perpetual indebtedness to foreign countries. When the burden of
              debt becomes
              > excessive, this incentive to seek prosperity here in the United
              States will
              > change.
              >
              > The prime beneficiaries of a paper money system are those who use
              the money
              > early - governments, politicians, bankers, international
              corporations, and
              > the military industrial complex. Those who suffer most are the
              ones at the
              > end of the money chain - the people forced to use depreciated
              dollars to buy
              > urgently needed goods and services to survive. And guess what? By
              then their
              > money is worth less, prices soar, and their standard of living
              goes down.
              >
              > The consequences of this system, fully in place for the past
              thirty-four
              > years, are astronomical and impossible to accurately measure.
              Industries go
              > offshore and the jobs follow. Price inflation eats away at the
              middle class,
              > and deficits soar while spending escalates rapidly as Congress
              hopes to keep
              > up with the problems it created. The remaining wealth that we
              struggle to
              > hold onto is based on debt, future tax revenues, and our ability to
              > manufacture new dollars without restraint. There's only one
              problem: it all
              > depends on trust in the dollar, especially by foreign holders and
              > purchasers. This trust will end, and signs of the beginning of the
              end are
              > already appearing.
              >
              > During this administration the dollar has suffered severely as a
              consequence
              > of the policy of inflating the currency to pay our bills. The
              dollar price
              > of gold has more than doubled ($252 to $560 per ounce, a 122 %
              increase).
              > This means the dollar has depreciated in terms of gold, the time-
              honored and
              > reliable measurement of a nation's currency, by an astounding 55%.
              The
              > long-term economic health of the nation is measured by the
              soundness of its
              > currency. Once Rome converted from a republic to an empire, she
              depreciated
              > her currency to pay the bills. This eventually led to Rome's
              downfall. That
              > is exactly what America is facing unless we change our ways.
              >
              > Now this is a real scandal worth worrying about. Since it's not
              yet on
              > Washington's radar screen, no attempt at addressing the problem is
              being
              > made. Instead, we'll be sure to make those the Constitution terms,
              > "petitioners to redress their grievances" fill out more forms.
              We'll make
              > government officials attend more ethics courses so they can learn
              how to be
              > more ethical.
              >
              > A free nation, as it moves toward authoritarianism, tolerates and
              hides a
              > lot of abuse in the system. The human impulse for wealth creation
              is hard to
              > destroy. But in the end it will happen here, if true reform of our
              economic,
              > monetary, and political system is not accomplished.
              >
              > Whether government programs are promoted for "good" causes
              (helping the
              > poor), or bad causes (permitting a military-industrial complex to
              capitalize
              > on war profits), the principles of the market are undermined.
              Eventually
              > nearly everyone becomes dependent on the system of deficits,
              borrowing,
              > printing press money, and the special interest budget process that
              > distributes loot by majority vote.
              >
              > Today, most business interests and the poor are dependent on
              government
              > handouts. Education and medical care are almost completely
              controlled and
              > regulated by an overpowering central government. We have come to
              accept our
              > role as world policemen and nation builder with little question,
              despite the
              > bad results and an inability to pay the bills.
              >
              > The question is, what will it take to bring about the changes in
              policy
              > needed to reverse this dangerous trend? The answer is: quite a
              lot. And
              > unfortunately it's not on the horizon. It probably won't come
              until there is
              > a rejection of the dollar as the safest and strongest world
              currency, and a
              > return to commodity money like gold and silver to restore
              confidence.
              >
              > The Abramoff-type scandals come and go in Washington, patched over
              with
              > grandiose schemes of reform that amount to nothing but more
              government and
              > congressional mischief. But our efforts should be directed toward
              > eliminating the greatest of all frauds - printing press money that
              creates
              > the political conditions breeding the vultures and leeches who
              feed off the
              > corrupt system.
              >
              > Counterfeiting money never creates wealth - it only steals wealth
              from the
              > unsuspecting. The Federal Reserve creation of money is exactly the
              same.
              > Increasing the dollars in circulation can only diminish the value
              of each
              > existing dollar. Only production and jobs can make a country
              wealthy in the
              > long run. Today it's obvious our country is becoming poorer and
              more uneasy
              > as our jobs and capital go overseas.
              >
              > The Abramoff scandal can serve a useful purpose if we put it in
              context of
              > the entire system that encourages corruption.
              >
              > If it's seen as an isolated case of individual corruption, and not
              an
              > expected consequence of big government run amuck, little good will
              come of
              > it. If we understand how our system of government intervenes in
              our personal
              > lives, the entire economy, and the internal affairs of nations
              around the
              > world, we can understand how it generates the conditions where
              lobbyists
              > thrive. Only then will some good come of it. Only then will we
              understand
              > that undermining the First amendment right of the people to
              petition their
              > government is hardly a solution to this much more serious and
              pervasive
              > problem.
              >
              > If we're inclined to improve conditions, we should give serious
              > consideration to the following policy reforms, reforms the
              American people
              > who cherish liberty would enthusiastically support:
              >
              > 1.. No more "No Child Left Behind" legislation;
              > 2.. No more prescription drug programs;
              > 3.. No more undeclared wars;
              > 4.. No more nation building;
              > 5.. No more acting as the world policemen;
              > 6.. No more deficits;
              > 7.. Cut spending - everywhere;
              > 8.. No more political and partisan resolutions designed to
              embarrass those
              > who may well have legitimate and honest disagreements with current
              policy;
              > 9.. No inferences that disagreeing with policy is unpatriotic or
              disloyal
              > to the country;
              > 10.. No more pretense of budget reform while ignoring off-budget
              spending
              > and the ever-growing fourteen appropriations bills;
              > 11.. Cut funding for corporate welfare, foreign aid,
              international NGOs,
              > defense contractors, the military industrial complex, and rich
              corporate
              > farmers before cutting welfare for the poor at home;
              > 12.. No more unconstitutional intrusions into the privacy of law-
              abiding
              > American citizens;
              > 13.. Reconsider the hysterical demands for security over liberty
              by
              > curtailing the ever-expanding and oppressive wars on drugs, tax
              violators,
              > and gun ownership.
              > Finally, why not try something novel, like having Congress act as
              an
              > independent and equal branch of government? Restore the principle
              of the
              > separation of powers, so that we can perform our duty to provide
              checks and
              > balances on an executive branch (and an accommodating judiciary)
              that spies
              > on Americans, glorifies the welfare state, fights undeclared wars,
              and
              > enormously increases the national debt. Congress was not meant to
              be a
              > rubber stamp. It's time for a new direction.
              >
              > January 19, 2006
              >
              > Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from Texas.
              >
              > Denise
              >
              > Denise Bensusan
              > SPEAK OUT ARIZONA
              > A Not for Profit Community Active Publication
              > http://www.frontiernet.net/~denise.bensusan/
              >
              > "Our safety, our liberty, depends upon preserving the Constitution
              of the
              > United States as our Fathers made it inviolate. The people of the
              United
              > States are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts,
              not to
              > overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert
              the
              > Constitution." - Abraham Lincoln
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >







              Yahoo! Groups Links









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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Denise Bensusan
              That seems to be the problem...we cant vote for the smaller party i.e. LP as our vote is simply wasted. I m not so sure our votes are actually counted
              Message 6 of 21 , Jan 22, 2006
                That seems to be the problem...we cant vote for the smaller party i.e. LP as our vote is simply wasted.

                I'm not so sure our votes are actually counted anyway....LOL


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Sandra Price
                To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 2:50 PM
                Subject: RE: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction


                Do we even have an active LP organization here? I attended the LP
                Convention in Tucson in 2004 and was not impressed with the choices of
                candidates. From what I understand, the LP will not vote, even for
                themselves. To hell with that!



                Sandy Price



                -----Original Message-----
                From: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denise Bensusan
                Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 12:53 PM
                To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction



                Heck..I think he should run for president!!! I have not seen too much that
                Ron Paul speaks about that I disagree with.
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Derek
                To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 9:59 AM
                Subject: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction


                Ron Paul speaks for me as well. I was wondering, does anyone know
                who is going to run for the US House seat being vacated at the end
                of this term by Jim Kolbe in Tucson? This might be a good time for
                a Libertarian to step up and try to win this seat. Or even if we
                could get another "Ron Paul - type Republican" that would be good
                too. Anything other than another "rubber stamp" for Bush's
                shenanigans.

                Derek Williams




                --- In arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra Price" <s@r...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Words of wisdom! He speaks for me!!
                >
                > Sandy Price
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                > [mailto:arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denise
                Bensusan
                > Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 2:18 PM
                > To: "SPEAK OUT ARIZONA"
                > Subject: [arizonaporcupines] Searching for a New Direction
                >
                > Forwarded for your interest:
                >
                > Searching for a New Direction
                >
                > by Ron Paul
                > by Ron Paul
                >
                >
                >
                > Before the US House of Representatives, January 18, 2006
                >
                > The Abramoff scandal has been described as the biggest Washington
                scandal
                > ever: bigger than Watergate; bigger than Abscam; bigger than
                Koreagate;
                > bigger than the House banking scandal; bigger than Teapot Dome.
                Possibly so.
                > It's certainly serious and significant.
                >
                > It has prompted urgent proposals of suggested reforms to deal with
                the mess.
                > If only we have more rules and regulations, more reporting
                requirements, and
                > stricter enforcement of laws, the American people will be assured
                we mean
                > business. Ethics and character will return to the halls of
                Congress. It is
                > argued that new champions of reform should be elected to leadership
                > positions, to show how serious we are about dealing with the
                crisis of
                > confidence generated by the Abramoff affair. Then all will be
                well. But it's
                > not so simple. Maybe what we have seen so far is just the tip of
                the
                > iceberg, an insidious crisis staring us in the face that we refuse
                to
                > properly identify and deal with.
                >
                > It's been suggested we need to change course and correct the way
                Congress is
                > run. A good idea, but if we merely tinker with current attitudes
                about what
                > role the federal government ought to play in our lives, it won't
                do much to
                > solve the ethics crisis. True reform is impossible without
                addressing the
                > immorality of wealth redistribution. Merely electing new leaders
                and writing
                > more rules to regulate those who petition Congress will achieve
                nothing.
                >
                > Could it be that we're all looking in the wrong places for a
                solution to
                > recurring, constant, and pervasive corruption in government?
                Perhaps some of
                > us in Congress are mistaken about the true problem; perhaps others
                > deliberately distract us from exposing the truth about how
                miserably corrupt
                > the budget process in Congress is. Others simply are in a state of
                denial.
                > But the denial will come to an end as the Abramoff scandal reveals
                more and
                > more. It eventually will expose the scandal of the ages: how and
                to what
                > degree the American people have become indebted by the totally
                irresponsible
                > spending habits of the U.S. Congress - as encouraged by successive
                > administrations, condoned by our courts, and enjoyed by the
                recipients of
                > the largesse.
                >
                > This system of government is coming to an end - a fact that
                significantly
                > contributes to the growing anxiety of most Americans, especially
                those who
                > pay the bills and receive little in return from the corrupt system
                that has
                > evolved over the decades.
                >
                > Believe me, if everybody benefited equally there would be scant
                outcry over
                > a little bribery and influence peddling. As our country grows
                poorer and
                > more indebted, fewer people benefit. The beneficiaries are not the
                > hard-working, honest people who pay the taxes. The groups that
                master the
                > system of lobbying and special interest legislation are the ones
                who truly
                > benefit.
                >
                > The steady erosion of real wealth in this country, and the
                dependency on
                > government generated by welfarism and warfarism, presents itself
                as the
                > crisis of the ages. Lobbying scandals and the need for new
                leadership are
                > mere symptoms of a much, much deeper problem.
                >
                > There are quite a few reasons a relatively free country allows
                itself to
                > fall into such an ethical and financial mess.
                >
                > One major contributing factor for the past hundred years is our
                serious
                > misunderstanding of the dangers of pure democracy. The founders
                detested
                > democracy and avoided the use of the word in all the early
                documents. Today,
                > most Americans accept without question a policy of sacrificing
                life,
                > property, and dollars to force "democracy" on a country 6,000
                miles away.
                > This tells us how little opposition there is to "democracy." No one
                > questions the principle that a majority electorate should be
                allowed to rule
                > the country, dictate rights, and redistribute wealth.
                >
                > Our system of democracy has come to mean worshipping the notion
                that a
                > majority vote for the distribution of government largesse, loot
                confiscated
                > from the American people through an immoral tax system, is morally
                and
                > constitutionally acceptable. Under these circumstances it's no
                wonder a
                > system of runaway lobbying and special interests has developed.
                Add this to
                > the military industrial complex that developed over the decades
                due to a
                > foreign policy of perpetual war and foreign military intervention,
                and we
                > shouldn't wonder why there is such a powerful motivation to learn
                the tricks
                > of the lobbying trade - and why former members of Congress and
                their aides
                > become such high-priced commodities. Buying influence is much more
                lucrative
                > than working and producing for a living. The trouble is the
                process invites
                > moral corruption. The dollars involved grow larger and larger
                because of the
                > deficit financing and inflation that pure democracy always
                generates.
                >
                > Dealing with lobbying scandals while ignoring the scandal of
                > unconstitutional runaway government will solve nothing. If people
                truly
                > believe that reform is the solution, through regulating lobbyists
                and
                > increasing congressional reporting requirements, the real problem
                will be
                > ignored and never identified. This reform only makes things worse.
                >
                > Greater regulation of lobbyists is a dangerous and unnecessary
                proposition.
                > If one expects to solve a problem without correctly identifying
                its source,
                > the problem persists. The First amendment clearly
                states: "Congress shall
                > make no laws respecting.the right of the people.to petition the
                government
                > for a redress of grievances." That means NO law!
                >
                > The problem of special interest government that breeds corruption
                comes from
                > our lack of respect for the Constitution in the first place. So
                what do we
                > do? We further violate the Constitution rather than examine it for
                guidance
                > as to the proper role of the federal government. Laws addressing
                bribery,
                > theft, and fraud, already on the books, are adequate to deal with
                the
                > criminal activities associated with lobbying. New laws and
                regulations are
                > unnecessary.
                >
                > The theft that the federal government commits against its
                citizens, and the
                > power that Congress has assumed illegally, are the real crimes
                that need to
                > be dealt with. In this regard we truly do need a new direction.
                Get rid of
                > the evil tax system; the fraudulent monetary system; and the power
                of
                > government to run our lives, the economy, and the world; and the
                Abramoff
                > types would be exposed for the mere gnats they are. There would be
                a lot
                > less of them, since the incentives to buy politicians would be
                removed.
                >
                > Even under today's flawed system of democratic government, which is
                > dedicated to redistributing property by force, a lot could be
                accomplished
                > if government attracted men and women of good will and character.
                Members
                > could refuse to yield to the temptations of office, and reject the
                path to a
                > lobbying career. But it seems once government adopts the rules of
                > immorality, some of the participants in the process yield to the
                temptation
                > as well, succumbing to the belief that the new moral standards are
                > acceptable.
                >
                > Today though, any new rules designed to restrain special interest
                favoritism
                > will only push the money further under the table. Too much is at
                stake.
                > Corporations, bureaucrats, lobbyists, and politicians have grown
                accustomed
                > to the system, and have learned to work within it to survive. Only
                when the
                > trough is emptied will the country wake up. Eliminating earmarks
                in the
                > budget will not solve the problem.
                >
                > Comparing the current scandal to the "big" one, the Abramoff types
                are petty
                > thieves. The government deals in trillions of dollars; the
                Abramoffs in mere
                > tens of millions. Take a look at the undeclared war we're bogged
                down in
                > 6,000 miles from our shores. We've spent 300 billion dollars
                already, but
                > Nobel prize winner Joseph Stiglitz argues that the war actually
                will cost
                > between one and two trillion dollars when it's all over and done
                with.
                > That's trillions, not billions. Even that figure is unpredictable,
                because
                > we may be in Iraq another year or ten - who knows? Considering the
                war had
                > nothing to do with our national security, we're talking big bucks
                being
                > wasted and lining the pockets of many well-connected American
                corporations.
                > Waste, fraud, stupidity, and no-bid contracts characterize the
                process. And
                > it's all done in the name of patriotism and national security.
                Dissenters
                > are accused of supporting the enemy. Now this is a rip-off that a
                little
                > tinkering with House rules and restraints on lobbyists won't do
                much to
                > solve.
                >
                > Think of how this undeclared war has contributed to our national
                deficit,
                > undermined military morale and preparedness, antagonized our
                allies, and
                > exposed us to an even greater threat from those who resent our
                destructive
                > occupation. Claiming we have no interests in the oil of the entire
                Middle
                > East hardly helps our credibility throughout the world.
                >
                > The system of special interest government that has evolved over
                the last
                > several decades has given us a national debt of over eight
                trillion dollars,
                > a debt that now expands by over 600 billion dollars each year. Our
                total
                > obligations are estimated between fifteen and twenty trillion
                dollars. Most
                > people realize the Social Security system, the Medicare system,
                and the new
                > prescription drug plan are unfunded. Thousands of private pension
                funds are
                > now being dumped on the U.S. government and American taxpayers. We
                are
                > borrowing over 700 billion dollars each year from foreigners to
                finance this
                > extravagance, and we now qualify as the greatest international
                debtor nation
                > in history. Excessive consumption using borrowed money is hardly
                the way to
                > secure a sound economy.
                >
                > Instead of reining in government spending, Congress remains
                oblivious to the
                > financial dangers and panders to special interests by offering no
                resistance
                > whatsoever to every request for new spending. Congress spends
                nearly 2 ½
                > trillion dollars annually in an attempt to satisfy everyone's
                demands. The
                > system has generated over 200 trillion dollars of derivatives.
                These
                > problems can't be addressed with token leadership changes and
                tinkering with
                > the budget. A new and a dramatic direction is required.
                >
                > As current policy further erodes the budget, special interests and
                members
                > of Congress become even more aggressive in their efforts to
                capture a piece
                > of the dwindling economic pie. That success is the measure of
                effectiveness
                > that guarantees a member's re-election.
                >
                > The biggest rip-off of all - the paper money system that is
                morally and
                > economically equivalent to counterfeiting - is never questioned.
                It is the
                > deceptive tool for transferring billions from the unsuspecting
                poor and
                > middle-class to the special interest rich. And in the process, the
                > deficit-propelled budget process supports the spending demands of
                all the
                > special interests - left and right, welfare and warfare - while
                delaying
                > payment to another day and sometimes even to another generation.
                >
                > The enormous sums spent each year to support the influential
                special
                > interests expand exponentially, and no one really asks how it's
                > accomplished. Raising taxes to balance the budget is out of the
                question -
                > and rightfully so. Foreigners have been generous in their
                willingness to
                > loan us most of what we need, but even that generosity is limited
                and may
                > well diminish in the future.
                >
                > But if the Federal Reserve did not pick up the slack and create
                huge amounts
                > of new credit and money out of thin air, interest rates would rise
                and call
                > a halt to the charade. The people who suffer from a depreciated
                dollar don't
                > understand why they suffer, while the people who benefit promote
                the corrupt
                > system. The wealthy clean up on Wall Street, and the
                unsophisticated buy in
                > as the market tops off. Wealth is transferred from one group to
                another, and
                > it's all related to the system that allows politicians and the
                central banks
                > to create money out of thin air. It's literally legalized
                counterfeiting.
                >
                > Is it any wonder jobs go overseas? True capital only comes from
                savings, and
                > Americans save nothing. We only borrow and consume. A
                counterfeiter has no
                > incentive to take his newly created money and build factories. The
                incentive
                > for Americans is to buy consumer goods from other countries whose
                people are
                > willing to save and invest in their factories and jobs. The only
                way we can
                > continue this charade is to borrow excess dollars back from the
                foreign
                > governments who sell us goods, and perpetuate the pretense of
                wealth that we
                > enjoy.
                >
                > The system of money contributes significantly to the problem of
                illegal
                > immigration. On the surface, immigrants escaping poverty in Mexico
                and
                > Central America come here for the economic opportunity that our
                economy
                > offers. However, the social services they receive, including
                education and
                > medical benefits - as well as the jobs they get - are dependent on
                our
                > perpetual indebtedness to foreign countries. When the burden of
                debt becomes
                > excessive, this incentive to seek prosperity here in the United
                States will
                > change.
                >
                > The prime beneficiaries of a paper money system are those who use
                the money
                > early - governments, politicians, bankers, international
                corporations, and
                > the military industrial complex. Those who suffer most are the
                ones at the
                > end of the money chain - the people forced to use depreciated
                dollars to buy
                > urgently needed goods and services to survive. And guess what? By
                then their
                > money is worth less, prices soar, and their standard of living
                goes down.
                >
                > The consequences of this system, fully in place for the past
                thirty-four
                > years, are astronomical and impossible to accurately measure.
                Industries go
                > offshore and the jobs follow. Price inflation eats away at the
                middle class,
                > and deficits soar while spending escalates rapidly as Congress
                hopes to keep
                > up with the problems it created. The remaining wealth that we
                struggle to
                > hold onto is based on debt, future tax revenues, and our ability to
                > manufacture new dollars without restraint. There's only one
                problem: it all
                > depends on trust in the dollar, especially by foreign holders and
                > purchasers. This trust will end, and signs of the beginning of the
                end are
                > already appearing.
                >
                > During this administration the dollar has suffered severely as a
                consequence
                > of the policy of inflating the currency to pay our bills. The
                dollar price
                > of gold has more than doubled ($252 to $560 per ounce, a 122 %
                increase).
                > This means the dollar has depreciated in terms of gold, the time-
                honored and
                > reliable measurement of a nation's currency, by an astounding 55%.
                The
                > long-term economic health of the nation is measured by the
                soundness of its
                > currency. Once Rome converted from a republic to an empire, she
                depreciated
                > her currency to pay the bills. This eventually led to Rome's
                downfall. That
                > is exactly what America is facing unless we change our ways.
                >
                > Now this is a real scandal worth worrying about. Since it's not
                yet on
                > Washington's radar screen, no attempt at addressing the problem is
                being
                > made. Instead, we'll be sure to make those the Constitution terms,
                > "petitioners to redress their grievances" fill out more forms.
                We'll make
                > government officials attend more ethics courses so they can learn
                how to be
                > more ethical.
                >
                > A free nation, as it moves toward authoritarianism, tolerates and
                hides a
                > lot of abuse in the system. The human impulse for wealth creation
                is hard to
                > destroy. But in the end it will happen here, if true reform of our
                economic,
                > monetary, and political system is not accomplished.
                >
                > Whether government programs are promoted for "good" causes
                (helping the
                > poor), or bad causes (permitting a military-industrial complex to
                capitalize
                > on war profits), the principles of the market are undermined.
                Eventually
                > nearly everyone becomes dependent on the system of deficits,
                borrowing,
                > printing press money, and the special interest budget process that
                > distributes loot by majority vote.
                >
                > Today, most business interests and the poor are dependent on
                government
                > handouts. Education and medical care are almost completely
                controlled and
                > regulated by an overpowering central government. We have come to
                accept our
                > role as world policemen and nation builder with little question,
                despite the
                > bad results and an inability to pay the bills.
                >
                > The question is, what will it take to bring about the changes in
                policy
                > needed to reverse this dangerous trend? The answer is: quite a
                lot. And
                > unfortunately it's not on the horizon. It probably won't come
                until there is
                > a rejection of the dollar as the safest and strongest world
                currency, and a
                > return to commodity money like gold and silver to restore
                confidence.
                >
                > The Abramoff-type scandals come and go in Washington, patched over
                with
                > grandiose schemes of reform that amount to nothing but more
                government and
                > congressional mischief. But our efforts should be directed toward
                > eliminating the greatest of all frauds - printing press money that
                creates
                > the political conditions breeding the vultures and leeches who
                feed off the
                > corrupt system.
                >
                > Counterfeiting money never creates wealth - it only steals wealth
                from the
                > unsuspecting. The Federal Reserve creation of money is exactly the
                same.
                > Increasing the dollars in circulation can only diminish the value
                of each
                > existing dollar. Only production and jobs can make a country
                wealthy in the
                > long run. Today it's obvious our country is becoming poorer and
                more uneasy
                > as our jobs and capital go overseas.
                >
                > The Abramoff scandal can serve a useful purpose if we put it in
                context of
                > the entire system that encourages corruption.
                >
                > If it's seen as an isolated case of individual corruption, and not
                an
                > expected consequence of big government run amuck, little good will
                come of
                > it. If we understand how our system of government intervenes in
                our personal
                > lives, the entire economy, and the internal affairs of nations
                around the
                > world, we can understand how it generates the conditions where
                lobbyists
                > thrive. Only then will some good come of it. Only then will we
                understand
                > that undermining the First amendment right of the people to
                petition their
                > government is hardly a solution to this much more serious and
                pervasive
                > problem.
                >
                > If we're inclined to improve conditions, we should give serious
                > consideration to the following policy reforms, reforms the
                American people
                > who cherish liberty would enthusiastically support:
                >
                > 1.. No more "No Child Left Behind" legislation;
                > 2.. No more prescription drug programs;
                > 3.. No more undeclared wars;
                > 4.. No more nation building;
                > 5.. No more acting as the world policemen;
                > 6.. No more deficits;
                > 7.. Cut spending - everywhere;
                > 8.. No more political and partisan resolutions designed to
                embarrass those
                > who may well have legitimate and honest disagreements with current
                policy;
                > 9.. No inferences that disagreeing with policy is unpatriotic or
                disloyal
                > to the country;
                > 10.. No more pretense of budget reform while ignoring off-budget
                spending
                > and the ever-growing fourteen appropriations bills;
                > 11.. Cut funding for corporate welfare, foreign aid,
                international NGOs,
                > defense contractors, the military industrial complex, and rich
                corporate
                > farmers before cutting welfare for the poor at home;
                > 12.. No more unconstitutional intrusions into the privacy of law-
                abiding
                > American citizens;
                > 13.. Reconsider the hysterical demands for security over liberty
                by
                > curtailing the ever-expanding and oppressive wars on drugs, tax
                violators,
                > and gun ownership.
                > Finally, why not try something novel, like having Congress act as
                an
                > independent and equal branch of government? Restore the principle
                of the
                > separation of powers, so that we can perform our duty to provide
                checks and
                > balances on an executive branch (and an accommodating judiciary)
                that spies
                > on Americans, glorifies the welfare state, fights undeclared wars,
                and
                > enormously increases the national debt. Congress was not meant to
                be a
                > rubber stamp. It's time for a new direction.
                >
                > January 19, 2006
                >
                > Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from Texas.
                >
                > Denise
                >
                > Denise Bensusan
                > SPEAK OUT ARIZONA
                > A Not for Profit Community Active Publication
                > http://www.frontiernet.net/~denise.bensusan/
                >
                > "Our safety, our liberty, depends upon preserving the Constitution
                of the
                > United States as our Fathers made it inviolate. The people of the
                United
                > States are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts,
                not to
                > overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert
                the
                > Constitution." - Abraham Lincoln
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >







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              • Derek Williams
                I don t know what the problem with the LP is. I wrote a letter once to the national LP (the party itself), and all they did was write me back and tell me if I
                Message 7 of 21 , Jan 22, 2006
                  I don't know what the problem with the LP is. I wrote a letter once
                  to the national LP (the party itself), and all they did was write me
                  back and tell me if I REALLY wanted to help, I should just give them
                  money. Well, #1, I am in college right now, and everyone knows how
                  broke college students are. I don't have any money to give right
                  now. #2, IF I had money to give, I would want to have reason to
                  believe that I was going to get a return on my investment. IE,
                  candidates elected, or at least have some GOOD, respectable
                  candidates run for office, and have someone come up with an idea of
                  how to relate to the general public.

                  I have many complaints about Libertarians running for office. We
                  had a guy when I lived in Tampa, FL, who ran as a Libertarian for an
                  office, who was a local strip bar owner and he was always in court
                  fighting with the city, or the county, etc. He seemed to be on a
                  one man crusade to be able to "do his thing". The problem with that
                  is that he cannot relate to, nor will he get votes from, the
                  Christian community or other normal, decent, family type people (the
                  majority that you have to get support from). Most people see strip
                  bar owners and adult book store owners as sleazy characters. I
                  don't want them representing my party to the public. I cannot in
                  good conscience (being a Christian) vote for a guy like that.

                  Ron Paul is definitely respectable and a good guy. No wonder he
                  keeps getting re-elected. I also think that Mike Badnarik will get
                  elected this time in Texas. He is a respectable guy with good views
                  on the issues. They have good careers away from politics and we
                  need more people like these two running for office.

                  I was actually disappointed in the FSP recently because they made
                  such a big deal about the licensing of barbers, cosmetologists, and
                  manicurists in NH. If you are unfamiliar with it, that was where
                  one of the FSP members did a manucure without a license, and got
                  arrested for it to get on the news. Now they have some bills
                  pending to eliminate the requirements (or at least cut down on the
                  training required) for barbers, cosmetologists, and manicurists.

                  Ok, here is the thing: Even though I am not a big fan of state
                  regulation, and barriers to entry in business, if these people
                  (barbers, manucurists,etc) are not taught properly how to disinfect
                  their appliances / tools, they can spread diseases to and among
                  their clients. I read about singer / American Idol judge Paula
                  Abdul getting a very nasty nail fungus a while back from a nail
                  salon where they did not disinfect the tools. Here is a link to
                  this story:

                  http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=28361

                  Reportedly, this infection was also spread to many other clients.

                  Now, with stories like this going on, why in the world would the FSP
                  pick THIS issue to fight for less regulation about? Do they think
                  that the people of NH want to risk severe nail infection getting
                  manucures? These bills will be squashed quickly.

                  You can also get lice from non-sterile barber tools. I would not
                  want to have to go through lice treatment because some unlicensed
                  barber didn't sterilize his clippers. (Luckily, I cut my own hair
                  with clippers at home, but most people cannot do this and have to
                  trust that their barber's tools are sterile and clean.)

                  So I think that this was a bad fight to pick. Better fights to pick
                  would be about taxes (most people hate taxes), or the efforts of the
                  FDA / Drug Companies / Codex Alimentarius commission to ban /
                  overregulate dietary supplements, and some of the violations of
                  privacy that are occurring as a result of the Patriot Act. I think
                  there is more public support over health freedom than there is over
                  any other issue. Nobody wants the government to tell them what they
                  can and cannot put in their bodies.

                  I recently wrote to Badnarik's campaign about this and he did not
                  have health freedom in his platform, other than market reforms which
                  benefit drug companies, making drugs cheaper for everyone. I wrote
                  them about it (and how it should include protection for alternative
                  medicine and dietary supplements and fair and accurate claims on
                  such) and was invited to write a position paper on it of about 200
                  words length. Now, his health care policy / position has health
                  freedom in it. (I wrote the first 2 paragraphs of the statement,
                  and they liked what I wrote enough to use it - the rest of it is
                  theirs.)

                  Ron Paul has campaigned for health freedom as well, and I think this
                  contributes to his popularity. I think the public would be very
                  supportive of a Gold or Silver standard also, if it were properly
                  and simply explained to them so that they could understand it
                  without taking too long and boring them, or confusing them. I think
                  that nearly ALL senior citizens (a big voting block) would be very
                  keen to adapt a Gold standard after it is explained to them that the
                  reason their pension or SS money is worth less and less every year
                  is because of inflation caused by printing more and more paper
                  money. Newly married couples and college students should like it
                  too, because it would keep them from being priced out of a house
                  when they are ready to buy their first one. Christians should buy
                  this as well, as paper money violates the Biblical standard of "just
                  weights and measures". After all, your money is worth less and
                  less, the more they print of it. Every loan they make that is not
                  backed by Gold or at least deposits in the banks, is more money
                  created out of thin air, which dilutes the purchasing power of every
                  dollar you and I work so hard for.

                  Funny how we could not imagine buying gas or vegetables without that
                  state dept. of Agriculture certification that the scales or pump are
                  accurate, but we allow the government to water down our money supply
                  so that they can spend more and more and then just pay it back with
                  inflated dollars further on down the road. If someone explained
                  this to the public, they should be able to win a debate easily. Why
                  do the Libertarians not articulate this clearly in debates or
                  advertisements?

                  By the way, I went to a couple of Libertarian meetings in Maricopa
                  County. I have not been to one yet in Tucson. I found somewhere on
                  the web where they meet, but just haven't made it out to a meeting
                  yet.

                  These are just my thoughts. What do you all think about these
                  issues?

                  Derek








                  --- In arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra Price" <s@r...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Do we even have an active LP organization here? I attended the LP
                  > Convention in Tucson in 2004 and was not impressed with the
                  choices of
                  > candidates. From what I understand, the LP will not vote, even for
                  > themselves. To hell with that!
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Sandy Price
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                  > [mailto:arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denise
                  Bensusan
                  > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 12:53 PM
                  > To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Heck..I think he should run for president!!! I have not seen too
                  much that
                  > Ron Paul speaks about that I disagree with.
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: Derek
                  > To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 9:59 AM
                  > Subject: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction
                  >
                  >
                  > Ron Paul speaks for me as well. I was wondering, does anyone
                  know
                  > who is going to run for the US House seat being vacated at the
                  end
                  > of this term by Jim Kolbe in Tucson? This might be a good time
                  for
                  > a Libertarian to step up and try to win this seat. Or even if
                  we
                  > could get another "Ron Paul - type Republican" that would be
                  good
                  > too. Anything other than another "rubber stamp" for Bush's
                  > shenanigans.
                  >
                  > Derek Williams
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra Price"
                  <s@r...>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Words of wisdom! He speaks for me!!
                  > >
                  > > Sandy Price
                  > >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                  > > [mailto:arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denise
                  > Bensusan
                  > > Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 2:18 PM
                  > > To: "SPEAK OUT ARIZONA"
                  > > Subject: [arizonaporcupines] Searching for a New Direction
                  > >
                  > > Forwarded for your interest:
                  > >
                  > > Searching for a New Direction
                  > >
                  > > by Ron Paul
                  > > by Ron Paul
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Before the US House of Representatives, January 18, 2006
                  > >
                  > > The Abramoff scandal has been described as the biggest
                  Washington
                  > scandal
                  > > ever: bigger than Watergate; bigger than Abscam; bigger than
                  > Koreagate;
                  > > bigger than the House banking scandal; bigger than Teapot
                  Dome.
                  > Possibly so.
                  > > It's certainly serious and significant.
                  > >
                  > > It has prompted urgent proposals of suggested reforms to deal
                  with
                  > the mess.
                  > > If only we have more rules and regulations, more reporting
                  > requirements, and
                  > > stricter enforcement of laws, the American people will be
                  assured
                  > we mean
                  > > business. Ethics and character will return to the halls of
                  > Congress. It is
                  > > argued that new champions of reform should be elected to
                  leadership
                  > > positions, to show how serious we are about dealing with the
                  > crisis of
                  > > confidence generated by the Abramoff affair. Then all will be
                  > well. But it's
                  > > not so simple. Maybe what we have seen so far is just the tip
                  of
                  > the
                  > > iceberg, an insidious crisis staring us in the face that we
                  refuse
                  > to
                  > > properly identify and deal with.
                  > >
                  > > It's been suggested we need to change course and correct the
                  way
                  > Congress is
                  > > run. A good idea, but if we merely tinker with current
                  attitudes
                  > about what
                  > > role the federal government ought to play in our lives, it
                  won't
                  > do much to
                  > > solve the ethics crisis. True reform is impossible without
                  > addressing the
                  > > immorality of wealth redistribution. Merely electing new
                  leaders
                  > and writing
                  > > more rules to regulate those who petition Congress will
                  achieve
                  > nothing.
                  > >
                  > > Could it be that we're all looking in the wrong places for a
                  > solution to
                  > > recurring, constant, and pervasive corruption in government?
                  > Perhaps some of
                  > > us in Congress are mistaken about the true problem; perhaps
                  others
                  > > deliberately distract us from exposing the truth about how
                  > miserably corrupt
                  > > the budget process in Congress is. Others simply are in a
                  state of
                  > denial.
                  > > But the denial will come to an end as the Abramoff scandal
                  reveals
                  > more and
                  > > more. It eventually will expose the scandal of the ages: how
                  and
                  > to what
                  > > degree the American people have become indebted by the totally
                  > irresponsible
                  > > spending habits of the U.S. Congress - as encouraged by
                  successive
                  > > administrations, condoned by our courts, and enjoyed by the
                  > recipients of
                  > > the largesse.
                  > >
                  > > This system of government is coming to an end - a fact that
                  > significantly
                  > > contributes to the growing anxiety of most Americans,
                  especially
                  > those who
                  > > pay the bills and receive little in return from the corrupt
                  system
                  > that has
                  > > evolved over the decades.
                  > >
                  > > Believe me, if everybody benefited equally there would be
                  scant
                  > outcry over
                  > > a little bribery and influence peddling. As our country grows
                  > poorer and
                  > > more indebted, fewer people benefit. The beneficiaries are not
                  the
                  > > hard-working, honest people who pay the taxes. The groups that
                  > master the
                  > > system of lobbying and special interest legislation are the
                  ones
                  > who truly
                  > > benefit.
                  > >
                  > > The steady erosion of real wealth in this country, and the
                  > dependency on
                  > > government generated by welfarism and warfarism, presents
                  itself
                  > as the
                  > > crisis of the ages. Lobbying scandals and the need for new
                  > leadership are
                  > > mere symptoms of a much, much deeper problem.
                  > >
                  > > There are quite a few reasons a relatively free country allows
                  > itself to
                  > > fall into such an ethical and financial mess.
                  > >
                  > > One major contributing factor for the past hundred years is
                  our
                  > serious
                  > > misunderstanding of the dangers of pure democracy. The
                  founders
                  > detested
                  > > democracy and avoided the use of the word in all the early
                  > documents. Today,
                  > > most Americans accept without question a policy of sacrificing
                  > life,
                  > > property, and dollars to force "democracy" on a country 6,000
                  > miles away.
                  > > This tells us how little opposition there is to "democracy."
                  No one
                  > > questions the principle that a majority electorate should be
                  > allowed to rule
                  > > the country, dictate rights, and redistribute wealth.
                  > >
                  > > Our system of democracy has come to mean worshipping the
                  notion
                  > that a
                  > > majority vote for the distribution of government largesse,
                  loot
                  > confiscated
                  > > from the American people through an immoral tax system, is
                  morally
                  > and
                  > > constitutionally acceptable. Under these circumstances it's no
                  > wonder a
                  > > system of runaway lobbying and special interests has
                  developed.
                  > Add this to
                  > > the military industrial complex that developed over the
                  decades
                  > due to a
                  > > foreign policy of perpetual war and foreign military
                  intervention,
                  > and we
                  > > shouldn't wonder why there is such a powerful motivation to
                  learn
                  > the tricks
                  > > of the lobbying trade - and why former members of Congress and
                  > their aides
                  > > become such high-priced commodities. Buying influence is much
                  more
                  > lucrative
                  > > than working and producing for a living. The trouble is the
                  > process invites
                  > > moral corruption. The dollars involved grow larger and larger
                  > because of the
                  > > deficit financing and inflation that pure democracy always
                  > generates.
                  > >
                  > > Dealing with lobbying scandals while ignoring the scandal of
                  > > unconstitutional runaway government will solve nothing. If
                  people
                  > truly
                  > > believe that reform is the solution, through regulating
                  lobbyists
                  > and
                  > > increasing congressional reporting requirements, the real
                  problem
                  > will be
                  > > ignored and never identified. This reform only makes things
                  worse.
                  > >
                  > > Greater regulation of lobbyists is a dangerous and unnecessary
                  > proposition.
                  > > If one expects to solve a problem without correctly
                  identifying
                  > its source,
                  > > the problem persists. The First amendment clearly
                  > states: "Congress shall
                  > > make no laws respecting.the right of the people.to petition
                  the
                  > government
                  > > for a redress of grievances." That means NO law!
                  > >
                  > > The problem of special interest government that breeds
                  corruption
                  > comes from
                  > > our lack of respect for the Constitution in the first place.
                  So
                  > what do we
                  > > do? We further violate the Constitution rather than examine it
                  for
                  > guidance
                  > > as to the proper role of the federal government. Laws
                  addressing
                  > bribery,
                  > > theft, and fraud, already on the books, are adequate to deal
                  with
                  > the
                  > > criminal activities associated with lobbying. New laws and
                  > regulations are
                  > > unnecessary.
                  > >
                  > > The theft that the federal government commits against its
                  > citizens, and the
                  > > power that Congress has assumed illegally, are the real crimes
                  > that need to
                  > > be dealt with. In this regard we truly do need a new
                  direction.
                  > Get rid of
                  > > the evil tax system; the fraudulent monetary system; and the
                  power
                  > of
                  > > government to run our lives, the economy, and the world; and
                  the
                  > Abramoff
                  > > types would be exposed for the mere gnats they are. There
                  would be
                  > a lot
                  > > less of them, since the incentives to buy politicians would be
                  > removed.
                  > >
                  > > Even under today's flawed system of democratic government,
                  which is
                  > > dedicated to redistributing property by force, a lot could be
                  > accomplished
                  > > if government attracted men and women of good will and
                  character.
                  > Members
                  > > could refuse to yield to the temptations of office, and reject
                  the
                  > path to a
                  > > lobbying career. But it seems once government adopts the rules
                  of
                  > > immorality, some of the participants in the process yield to
                  the
                  > temptation
                  > > as well, succumbing to the belief that the new moral standards
                  are
                  > > acceptable.
                  > >
                  > > Today though, any new rules designed to restrain special
                  interest
                  > favoritism
                  > > will only push the money further under the table. Too much is
                  at
                  > stake.
                  > > Corporations, bureaucrats, lobbyists, and politicians have
                  grown
                  > accustomed
                  > > to the system, and have learned to work within it to survive.
                  Only
                  > when the
                  > > trough is emptied will the country wake up. Eliminating
                  earmarks
                  > in the
                  > > budget will not solve the problem.
                  > >
                  > > Comparing the current scandal to the "big" one, the Abramoff
                  types
                  > are petty
                  > > thieves. The government deals in trillions of dollars; the
                  > Abramoffs in mere
                  > > tens of millions. Take a look at the undeclared war we're
                  bogged
                  > down in
                  > > 6,000 miles from our shores. We've spent 300 billion dollars
                  > already, but
                  > > Nobel prize winner Joseph Stiglitz argues that the war
                  actually
                  > will cost
                  > > between one and two trillion dollars when it's all over and
                  done
                  > with.
                  > > That's trillions, not billions. Even that figure is
                  unpredictable,
                  > because
                  > > we may be in Iraq another year or ten - who knows? Considering
                  the
                  > war had
                  > > nothing to do with our national security, we're talking big
                  bucks
                  > being
                  > > wasted and lining the pockets of many well-connected American
                  > corporations.
                  > > Waste, fraud, stupidity, and no-bid contracts characterize the
                  > process. And
                  > > it's all done in the name of patriotism and national security.
                  > Dissenters
                  > > are accused of supporting the enemy. Now this is a rip-off
                  that a
                  > little
                  > > tinkering with House rules and restraints on lobbyists won't
                  do
                  > much to
                  > > solve.
                  > >
                  > > Think of how this undeclared war has contributed to our
                  national
                  > deficit,
                  > > undermined military morale and preparedness, antagonized our
                  > allies, and
                  > > exposed us to an even greater threat from those who resent our
                  > destructive
                  > > occupation. Claiming we have no interests in the oil of the
                  entire
                  > Middle
                  > > East hardly helps our credibility throughout the world.
                  > >
                  > > The system of special interest government that has evolved
                  over
                  > the last
                  > > several decades has given us a national debt of over eight
                  > trillion dollars,
                  > > a debt that now expands by over 600 billion dollars each year.
                  Our
                  > total
                  > > obligations are estimated between fifteen and twenty trillion
                  > dollars. Most
                  > > people realize the Social Security system, the Medicare
                  system,
                  > and the new
                  > > prescription drug plan are unfunded. Thousands of private
                  pension
                  > funds are
                  > > now being dumped on the U.S. government and American
                  taxpayers. We
                  > are
                  > > borrowing over 700 billion dollars each year from foreigners
                  to
                  > finance this
                  > > extravagance, and we now qualify as the greatest international
                  > debtor nation
                  > > in history. Excessive consumption using borrowed money is
                  hardly
                  > the way to
                  > > secure a sound economy.
                  > >
                  > > Instead of reining in government spending, Congress remains
                  > oblivious to the
                  > > financial dangers and panders to special interests by offering
                  no
                  > resistance
                  > > whatsoever to every request for new spending. Congress spends
                  > nearly 2 ½
                  > > trillion dollars annually in an attempt to satisfy everyone's
                  > demands. The
                  > > system has generated over 200 trillion dollars of derivatives.
                  > These
                  > > problems can't be addressed with token leadership changes and
                  > tinkering with
                  > > the budget. A new and a dramatic direction is required.
                  > >
                  > > As current policy further erodes the budget, special interests
                  and
                  > members
                  > > of Congress become even more aggressive in their efforts to
                  > capture a piece
                  > > of the dwindling economic pie. That success is the measure of
                  > effectiveness
                  > > that guarantees a member's re-election.
                  > >
                  > > The biggest rip-off of all - the paper money system that is
                  > morally and
                  > > economically equivalent to counterfeiting - is never
                  questioned.
                  > It is the
                  > > deceptive tool for transferring billions from the unsuspecting
                  > poor and
                  > > middle-class to the special interest rich. And in the process,
                  the
                  > > deficit-propelled budget process supports the spending demands
                  of
                  > all the
                  > > special interests - left and right, welfare and warfare -
                  while
                  > delaying
                  > > payment to another day and sometimes even to another
                  generation.
                  > >
                  > > The enormous sums spent each year to support the influential
                  > special
                  > > interests expand exponentially, and no one really asks how it's
                  > > accomplished. Raising taxes to balance the budget is out of
                  the
                  > question -
                  > > and rightfully so. Foreigners have been generous in their
                  > willingness to
                  > > loan us most of what we need, but even that generosity is
                  limited
                  > and may
                  > > well diminish in the future.
                  > >
                  > > But if the Federal Reserve did not pick up the slack and
                  create
                  > huge amounts
                  > > of new credit and money out of thin air, interest rates would
                  rise
                  > and call
                  > > a halt to the charade. The people who suffer from a
                  depreciated
                  > dollar don't
                  > > understand why they suffer, while the people who benefit
                  promote
                  > the corrupt
                  > > system. The wealthy clean up on Wall Street, and the
                  > unsophisticated buy in
                  > > as the market tops off. Wealth is transferred from one group
                  to
                  > another, and
                  > > it's all related to the system that allows politicians and the
                  > central banks
                  > > to create money out of thin air. It's literally legalized
                  > counterfeiting.
                  > >
                  > > Is it any wonder jobs go overseas? True capital only comes
                  from
                  > savings, and
                  > > Americans save nothing. We only borrow and consume. A
                  > counterfeiter has no
                  > > incentive to take his newly created money and build factories.
                  The
                  > incentive
                  > > for Americans is to buy consumer goods from other countries
                  whose
                  > people are
                  > > willing to save and invest in their factories and jobs. The
                  only
                  > way we can
                  > > continue this charade is to borrow excess dollars back from
                  the
                  > foreign
                  > > governments who sell us goods, and perpetuate the pretense of
                  > wealth that we
                  > > enjoy.
                  > >
                  > > The system of money contributes significantly to the problem
                  of
                  > illegal
                  > > immigration. On the surface, immigrants escaping poverty in
                  Mexico
                  > and
                  > > Central America come here for the economic opportunity that
                  our
                  > economy
                  > > offers. However, the social services they receive, including
                  > education and
                  > > medical benefits - as well as the jobs they get - are
                  dependent on
                  > our
                  > > perpetual indebtedness to foreign countries. When the burden
                  of
                  > debt becomes
                  > > excessive, this incentive to seek prosperity here in the
                  United
                  > States will
                  > > change.
                  > >
                  > > The prime beneficiaries of a paper money system are those who
                  use
                  > the money
                  > > early - governments, politicians, bankers, international
                  > corporations, and
                  > > the military industrial complex. Those who suffer most are the
                  > ones at the
                  > > end of the money chain - the people forced to use depreciated
                  > dollars to buy
                  > > urgently needed goods and services to survive. And guess what?
                  By
                  > then their
                  > > money is worth less, prices soar, and their standard of living
                  > goes down.
                  > >
                  > > The consequences of this system, fully in place for the past
                  > thirty-four
                  > > years, are astronomical and impossible to accurately measure.
                  > Industries go
                  > > offshore and the jobs follow. Price inflation eats away at the
                  > middle class,
                  > > and deficits soar while spending escalates rapidly as Congress
                  > hopes to keep
                  > > up with the problems it created. The remaining wealth that we
                  > struggle to
                  > > hold onto is based on debt, future tax revenues, and our
                  ability to
                  > > manufacture new dollars without restraint. There's only one
                  > problem: it all
                  > > depends on trust in the dollar, especially by foreign holders
                  and
                  > > purchasers. This trust will end, and signs of the beginning of
                  the
                  > end are
                  > > already appearing.
                  > >
                  > > During this administration the dollar has suffered severely as
                  a
                  > consequence
                  > > of the policy of inflating the currency to pay our bills. The
                  > dollar price
                  > > of gold has more than doubled ($252 to $560 per ounce, a 122 %
                  > increase).
                  > > This means the dollar has depreciated in terms of gold, the
                  time-
                  > honored and
                  > > reliable measurement of a nation's currency, by an astounding
                  55%.
                  > The
                  > > long-term economic health of the nation is measured by the
                  > soundness of its
                  > > currency. Once Rome converted from a republic to an empire,
                  she
                  > depreciated
                  > > her currency to pay the bills. This eventually led to Rome's
                  > downfall. That
                  > > is exactly what America is facing unless we change our ways.
                  > >
                  > > Now this is a real scandal worth worrying about. Since it's
                  not
                  > yet on
                  > > Washington's radar screen, no attempt at addressing the
                  problem is
                  > being
                  > > made. Instead, we'll be sure to make those the Constitution
                  terms,
                  > > "petitioners to redress their grievances" fill out more forms.
                  > We'll make
                  > > government officials attend more ethics courses so they can
                  learn
                  > how to be
                  > > more ethical.
                  > >
                  > > A free nation, as it moves toward authoritarianism, tolerates
                  and
                  > hides a
                  > > lot of abuse in the system. The human impulse for wealth
                  creation
                  > is hard to
                  > > destroy. But in the end it will happen here, if true reform of
                  our
                  > economic,
                  > > monetary, and political system is not accomplished.
                  > >
                  > > Whether government programs are promoted for "good" causes
                  > (helping the
                  > > poor), or bad causes (permitting a military-industrial complex
                  to
                  > capitalize
                  > > on war profits), the principles of the market are undermined.
                  > Eventually
                  > > nearly everyone becomes dependent on the system of deficits,
                  > borrowing,
                  > > printing press money, and the special interest budget process
                  that
                  > > distributes loot by majority vote.
                  > >
                  > > Today, most business interests and the poor are dependent on
                  > government
                  > > handouts. Education and medical care are almost completely
                  > controlled and
                  > > regulated by an overpowering central government. We have come
                  to
                  > accept our
                  > > role as world policemen and nation builder with little
                  question,
                  > despite the
                  > > bad results and an inability to pay the bills.
                  > >
                  > > The question is, what will it take to bring about the changes
                  in
                  > policy
                  > > needed to reverse this dangerous trend? The answer is: quite a
                  > lot. And
                  > > unfortunately it's not on the horizon. It probably won't come
                  > until there is
                  > > a rejection of the dollar as the safest and strongest world
                  > currency, and a
                  > > return to commodity money like gold and silver to restore
                  > confidence.
                  > >
                  > > The Abramoff-type scandals come and go in Washington, patched
                  over
                  > with
                  > > grandiose schemes of reform that amount to nothing but more
                  > government and
                  > > congressional mischief. But our efforts should be directed
                  toward
                  > > eliminating the greatest of all frauds - printing press money
                  that
                  > creates
                  > > the political conditions breeding the vultures and leeches who
                  > feed off the
                  > > corrupt system.
                  > >
                  > > Counterfeiting money never creates wealth - it only steals
                  wealth
                  > from the
                  > > unsuspecting. The Federal Reserve creation of money is exactly
                  the
                  > same.
                  > > Increasing the dollars in circulation can only diminish the
                  value
                  > of each
                  > > existing dollar. Only production and jobs can make a country
                  > wealthy in the
                  > > long run. Today it's obvious our country is becoming poorer
                  and
                  > more uneasy
                  > > as our jobs and capital go overseas.
                  > >
                  > > The Abramoff scandal can serve a useful purpose if we put it
                  in
                  > context of
                  > > the entire system that encourages corruption.
                  > >
                  > > If it's seen as an isolated case of individual corruption, and
                  not
                  > an
                  > > expected consequence of big government run amuck, little good
                  will
                  > come of
                  > > it. If we understand how our system of government intervenes
                  in
                  > our personal
                  > > lives, the entire economy, and the internal affairs of nations
                  > around the
                  > > world, we can understand how it generates the conditions where
                  > lobbyists
                  > > thrive. Only then will some good come of it. Only then will we
                  > understand
                  > > that undermining the First amendment right of the people to
                  > petition their
                  > > government is hardly a solution to this much more serious and
                  > pervasive
                  > > problem.
                  > >
                  > > If we're inclined to improve conditions, we should give serious
                  > > consideration to the following policy reforms, reforms the
                  > American people
                  > > who cherish liberty would enthusiastically support:
                  > >
                  > > 1.. No more "No Child Left Behind" legislation;
                  > > 2.. No more prescription drug programs;
                  > > 3.. No more undeclared wars;
                  > > 4.. No more nation building;
                  > > 5.. No more acting as the world policemen;
                  > > 6.. No more deficits;
                  > > 7.. Cut spending - everywhere;
                  > > 8.. No more political and partisan resolutions designed to
                  > embarrass those
                  > > who may well have legitimate and honest disagreements with
                  current
                  > policy;
                  > > 9.. No inferences that disagreeing with policy is
                  unpatriotic or
                  > disloyal
                  > > to the country;
                  > > 10.. No more pretense of budget reform while ignoring off-
                  budget
                  > spending
                  > > and the ever-growing fourteen appropriations bills;
                  > > 11.. Cut funding for corporate welfare, foreign aid,
                  > international NGOs,
                  > > defense contractors, the military industrial complex, and rich
                  > corporate
                  > > farmers before cutting welfare for the poor at home;
                  > > 12.. No more unconstitutional intrusions into the privacy of
                  law-
                  > abiding
                  > > American citizens;
                  > > 13.. Reconsider the hysterical demands for security over
                  liberty
                  > by
                  > > curtailing the ever-expanding and oppressive wars on drugs,
                  tax
                  > violators,
                  > > and gun ownership.
                  > > Finally, why not try something novel, like having Congress act
                  as
                  > an
                  > > independent and equal branch of government? Restore the
                  principle
                  > of the
                  > > separation of powers, so that we can perform our duty to
                  provide
                  > checks and
                  > > balances on an executive branch (and an accommodating
                  judiciary)
                  > that spies
                  > > on Americans, glorifies the welfare state, fights undeclared
                  wars,
                  > and
                  > > enormously increases the national debt. Congress was not meant
                  to
                  > be a
                  > > rubber stamp. It's time for a new direction.
                  > >
                  > > January 19, 2006
                  > >
                  > > Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from Texas.
                  > >
                  > > Denise
                  > >
                  > > Denise Bensusan
                  > > SPEAK OUT ARIZONA
                  > > A Not for Profit Community Active Publication
                  > > http://www.frontiernet.net/~denise.bensusan/
                  > >
                  > > "Our safety, our liberty, depends upon preserving the
                  Constitution
                  > of the
                  > > United States as our Fathers made it inviolate. The people of
                  the
                  > United
                  > > States are the rightful masters of both Congress and the
                  Courts,
                  > not to
                  > > overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who
                  pervert
                  > the
                  > > Constitution." - Abraham Lincoln
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > _____
                  >
                  > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > * Visit your group "arizonaporcupines
                  > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arizonaporcupines> " on the web.
                  >
                  >
                  > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > arizonaporcupines-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > <mailto:arizonaporcupines-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
                  subject=Unsubscribe>
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                  > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                  > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
                  >
                  >
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                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Sandra Price
                  Derek, you are correct about the lack of interest within the LP for the many issues that were part of the early days of the Libertarian movement. Their
                  Message 8 of 21 , Jan 23, 2006
                    Derek, you are correct about the lack of interest within the LP for the many
                    issues that were part of the early days of the Libertarian movement. Their
                    candidates have no real desire to win and get the impression they want the
                    government to fail so we can start all over. I met Michael Badnarik on
                    several occasions and was not impressed with his knowledge of the
                    Constitution. He has his own version of how it should be interpreted and
                    amended and he is simply wrong. He is also a member of a group of men who
                    believe the IRS is against the law. It is legal and has been a part of the
                    laws of America for many years under the authority of the House and Senate.




                    The only way to clean up the IRS is by legal legislation done through the
                    Congress and until Badnarik recognizes this fact, he will be dealing with
                    many criminals who have done time in prison and will continue to be declared
                    criminals.



                    I will never support any candidate who refuses to play by the accepted rules
                    of law. I am now an Independent voter and will concentrate on removing
                    every damn congressman running in 2006. They all folded up under the Bush
                    Administration and have shown themselves incapable of determining what is
                    legal and correct. These fools want a Police State to be designed and run
                    by the White House. The Bush administration wants full control over our
                    lives and will eliminate our state rights.



                    I am not a Christian and will refuse to live by the Bible over the authority
                    of our individual rights as are shown in the U.S. Constitution. I do not
                    want the Bible introduced into our schools and being an advocate of
                    Evolution, feel it should be taught as a science. The American family has
                    the choice of family size at this time and I resent having this choice taken
                    away. I am not a proponent of abortion but it must remain a choice for the
                    mother, father and clergy, not some asshole in the White House.

                    HHHH



                    There is a lot wrong in our government but there are legal ways of changing
                    what we find offensive. The LP simply ignores what they find wrong and will
                    end up supporting chaos.



                    Many of us are searching for a third party candidate for all our elections
                    in 2006 and 2008 because the Republicans and Democrats have fallen overboard
                    in their leadership. We need another Ross Perot to cut through the crap the
                    current parties are selling at this time.



                    I have followed the FSP since the day it was introduced and they too are
                    floundering around without a purpose. I love the concept but not the way
                    they are wandering all over the place trying to find an agenda.



                    Sandy Pricee has



                    _____



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Denise Bensusan
                    Derek, Excellent insight on all counts. Especially your statement: Funny how we could not imagine buying gas or vegetables without that state dept. of
                    Message 9 of 21 , Jan 23, 2006
                      Derek,

                      Excellent insight on all counts.

                      Especially your statement: Funny how we could not imagine buying gas or vegetables without that
                      state dept. of Agriculture certification that the scales or pump are
                      accurate, but we allow the government to water down our money supply
                      so that they can spend more and more and then just pay it back with
                      inflated dollars further on down the road. If someone explained
                      this to the public, they should be able to win a debate easily. Why
                      do the Libertarians not articulate this clearly in debates or
                      advertisements?

                      I'm in Kingman and the Republicans run this county!!!!! Heck they run this state in my opinion. This NOT crossing party lines when making any and all decisions has gotten so ridiculous that this government has lost all legitimacy!!



                      Denise
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Derek Williams
                      To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 8:50 PM
                      Subject: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction


                      I don't know what the problem with the LP is. I wrote a letter once
                      to the national LP (the party itself), and all they did was write me
                      back and tell me if I REALLY wanted to help, I should just give them
                      money. Well, #1, I am in college right now, and everyone knows how
                      broke college students are. I don't have any money to give right
                      now. #2, IF I had money to give, I would want to have reason to
                      believe that I was going to get a return on my investment. IE,
                      candidates elected, or at least have some GOOD, respectable
                      candidates run for office, and have someone come up with an idea of
                      how to relate to the general public.

                      I have many complaints about Libertarians running for office. We
                      had a guy when I lived in Tampa, FL, who ran as a Libertarian for an
                      office, who was a local strip bar owner and he was always in court
                      fighting with the city, or the county, etc. He seemed to be on a
                      one man crusade to be able to "do his thing". The problem with that
                      is that he cannot relate to, nor will he get votes from, the
                      Christian community or other normal, decent, family type people (the
                      majority that you have to get support from). Most people see strip
                      bar owners and adult book store owners as sleazy characters. I
                      don't want them representing my party to the public. I cannot in
                      good conscience (being a Christian) vote for a guy like that.

                      Ron Paul is definitely respectable and a good guy. No wonder he
                      keeps getting re-elected. I also think that Mike Badnarik will get
                      elected this time in Texas. He is a respectable guy with good views
                      on the issues. They have good careers away from politics and we
                      need more people like these two running for office.

                      I was actually disappointed in the FSP recently because they made
                      such a big deal about the licensing of barbers, cosmetologists, and
                      manicurists in NH. If you are unfamiliar with it, that was where
                      one of the FSP members did a manucure without a license, and got
                      arrested for it to get on the news. Now they have some bills
                      pending to eliminate the requirements (or at least cut down on the
                      training required) for barbers, cosmetologists, and manicurists.

                      Ok, here is the thing: Even though I am not a big fan of state
                      regulation, and barriers to entry in business, if these people
                      (barbers, manucurists,etc) are not taught properly how to disinfect
                      their appliances / tools, they can spread diseases to and among
                      their clients. I read about singer / American Idol judge Paula
                      Abdul getting a very nasty nail fungus a while back from a nail
                      salon where they did not disinfect the tools. Here is a link to
                      this story:

                      http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=28361

                      Reportedly, this infection was also spread to many other clients.

                      Now, with stories like this going on, why in the world would the FSP
                      pick THIS issue to fight for less regulation about? Do they think
                      that the people of NH want to risk severe nail infection getting
                      manucures? These bills will be squashed quickly.

                      You can also get lice from non-sterile barber tools. I would not
                      want to have to go through lice treatment because some unlicensed
                      barber didn't sterilize his clippers. (Luckily, I cut my own hair
                      with clippers at home, but most people cannot do this and have to
                      trust that their barber's tools are sterile and clean.)

                      So I think that this was a bad fight to pick. Better fights to pick
                      would be about taxes (most people hate taxes), or the efforts of the
                      FDA / Drug Companies / Codex Alimentarius commission to ban /
                      overregulate dietary supplements, and some of the violations of
                      privacy that are occurring as a result of the Patriot Act. I think
                      there is more public support over health freedom than there is over
                      any other issue. Nobody wants the government to tell them what they
                      can and cannot put in their bodies.

                      I recently wrote to Badnarik's campaign about this and he did not
                      have health freedom in his platform, other than market reforms which
                      benefit drug companies, making drugs cheaper for everyone. I wrote
                      them about it (and how it should include protection for alternative
                      medicine and dietary supplements and fair and accurate claims on
                      such) and was invited to write a position paper on it of about 200
                      words length. Now, his health care policy / position has health
                      freedom in it. (I wrote the first 2 paragraphs of the statement,
                      and they liked what I wrote enough to use it - the rest of it is
                      theirs.)

                      Ron Paul has campaigned for health freedom as well, and I think this
                      contributes to his popularity. I think the public would be very
                      supportive of a Gold or Silver standard also, if it were properly
                      and simply explained to them so that they could understand it
                      without taking too long and boring them, or confusing them. I think
                      that nearly ALL senior citizens (a big voting block) would be very
                      keen to adapt a Gold standard after it is explained to them that the
                      reason their pension or SS money is worth less and less every year
                      is because of inflation caused by printing more and more paper
                      money. Newly married couples and college students should like it
                      too, because it would keep them from being priced out of a house
                      when they are ready to buy their first one. Christians should buy
                      this as well, as paper money violates the Biblical standard of "just
                      weights and measures". After all, your money is worth less and
                      less, the more they print of it. Every loan they make that is not
                      backed by Gold or at least deposits in the banks, is more money
                      created out of thin air, which dilutes the purchasing power of every
                      dollar you and I work so hard for.

                      Funny how we could not imagine buying gas or vegetables without that
                      state dept. of Agriculture certification that the scales or pump are
                      accurate, but we allow the government to water down our money supply
                      so that they can spend more and more and then just pay it back with
                      inflated dollars further on down the road. If someone explained
                      this to the public, they should be able to win a debate easily. Why
                      do the Libertarians not articulate this clearly in debates or
                      advertisements?

                      By the way, I went to a couple of Libertarian meetings in Maricopa
                      County. I have not been to one yet in Tucson. I found somewhere on
                      the web where they meet, but just haven't made it out to a meeting
                      yet.

                      These are just my thoughts. What do you all think about these
                      issues?

                      Derek








                      --- In arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra Price" <s@r...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Do we even have an active LP organization here? I attended the LP
                      > Convention in Tucson in 2004 and was not impressed with the
                      choices of
                      > candidates. From what I understand, the LP will not vote, even for
                      > themselves. To hell with that!
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Sandy Price
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                      > [mailto:arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denise
                      Bensusan
                      > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 12:53 PM
                      > To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Heck..I think he should run for president!!! I have not seen too
                      much that
                      > Ron Paul speaks about that I disagree with.
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: Derek
                      > To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 9:59 AM
                      > Subject: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction
                      >
                      >
                      > Ron Paul speaks for me as well. I was wondering, does anyone
                      know
                      > who is going to run for the US House seat being vacated at the
                      end
                      > of this term by Jim Kolbe in Tucson? This might be a good time
                      for
                      > a Libertarian to step up and try to win this seat. Or even if
                      we
                      > could get another "Ron Paul - type Republican" that would be
                      good
                      > too. Anything other than another "rubber stamp" for Bush's
                      > shenanigans.
                      >
                      > Derek Williams
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra Price"
                      <s@r...>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Words of wisdom! He speaks for me!!
                      > >
                      > > Sandy Price
                      > >
                      > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > From: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                      > > [mailto:arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denise
                      > Bensusan
                      > > Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 2:18 PM
                      > > To: "SPEAK OUT ARIZONA"
                      > > Subject: [arizonaporcupines] Searching for a New Direction
                      > >
                      > > Forwarded for your interest:
                      > >
                      > > Searching for a New Direction
                      > >
                      > > by Ron Paul
                      > > by Ron Paul
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Before the US House of Representatives, January 18, 2006
                      > >
                      > > The Abramoff scandal has been described as the biggest
                      Washington
                      > scandal
                      > > ever: bigger than Watergate; bigger than Abscam; bigger than
                      > Koreagate;
                      > > bigger than the House banking scandal; bigger than Teapot
                      Dome.
                      > Possibly so.
                      > > It's certainly serious and significant.
                      > >
                      > > It has prompted urgent proposals of suggested reforms to deal
                      with
                      > the mess.
                      > > If only we have more rules and regulations, more reporting
                      > requirements, and
                      > > stricter enforcement of laws, the American people will be
                      assured
                      > we mean
                      > > business. Ethics and character will return to the halls of
                      > Congress. It is
                      > > argued that new champions of reform should be elected to
                      leadership
                      > > positions, to show how serious we are about dealing with the
                      > crisis of
                      > > confidence generated by the Abramoff affair. Then all will be
                      > well. But it's
                      > > not so simple. Maybe what we have seen so far is just the tip
                      of
                      > the
                      > > iceberg, an insidious crisis staring us in the face that we
                      refuse
                      > to
                      > > properly identify and deal with.
                      > >
                      > > It's been suggested we need to change course and correct the
                      way
                      > Congress is
                      > > run. A good idea, but if we merely tinker with current
                      attitudes
                      > about what
                      > > role the federal government ought to play in our lives, it
                      won't
                      > do much to
                      > > solve the ethics crisis. True reform is impossible without
                      > addressing the
                      > > immorality of wealth redistribution. Merely electing new
                      leaders
                      > and writing
                      > > more rules to regulate those who petition Congress will
                      achieve
                      > nothing.
                      > >
                      > > Could it be that we're all looking in the wrong places for a
                      > solution to
                      > > recurring, constant, and pervasive corruption in government?
                      > Perhaps some of
                      > > us in Congress are mistaken about the true problem; perhaps
                      others
                      > > deliberately distract us from exposing the truth about how
                      > miserably corrupt
                      > > the budget process in Congress is. Others simply are in a
                      state of
                      > denial.
                      > > But the denial will come to an end as the Abramoff scandal
                      reveals
                      > more and
                      > > more. It eventually will expose the scandal of the ages: how
                      and
                      > to what
                      > > degree the American people have become indebted by the totally
                      > irresponsible
                      > > spending habits of the U.S. Congress - as encouraged by
                      successive
                      > > administrations, condoned by our courts, and enjoyed by the
                      > recipients of
                      > > the largesse.
                      > >
                      > > This system of government is coming to an end - a fact that
                      > significantly
                      > > contributes to the growing anxiety of most Americans,
                      especially
                      > those who
                      > > pay the bills and receive little in return from the corrupt
                      system
                      > that has
                      > > evolved over the decades.
                      > >
                      > > Believe me, if everybody benefited equally there would be
                      scant
                      > outcry over
                      > > a little bribery and influence peddling. As our country grows
                      > poorer and
                      > > more indebted, fewer people benefit. The beneficiaries are not
                      the
                      > > hard-working, honest people who pay the taxes. The groups that
                      > master the
                      > > system of lobbying and special interest legislation are the
                      ones
                      > who truly
                      > > benefit.
                      > >
                      > > The steady erosion of real wealth in this country, and the
                      > dependency on
                      > > government generated by welfarism and warfarism, presents
                      itself
                      > as the
                      > > crisis of the ages. Lobbying scandals and the need for new
                      > leadership are
                      > > mere symptoms of a much, much deeper problem.
                      > >
                      > > There are quite a few reasons a relatively free country allows
                      > itself to
                      > > fall into such an ethical and financial mess.
                      > >
                      > > One major contributing factor for the past hundred years is
                      our
                      > serious
                      > > misunderstanding of the dangers of pure democracy. The
                      founders
                      > detested
                      > > democracy and avoided the use of the word in all the early
                      > documents. Today,
                      > > most Americans accept without question a policy of sacrificing
                      > life,
                      > > property, and dollars to force "democracy" on a country 6,000
                      > miles away.
                      > > This tells us how little opposition there is to "democracy."
                      No one
                      > > questions the principle that a majority electorate should be
                      > allowed to rule
                      > > the country, dictate rights, and redistribute wealth.
                      > >
                      > > Our system of democracy has come to mean worshipping the
                      notion
                      > that a
                      > > majority vote for the distribution of government largesse,
                      loot
                      > confiscated
                      > > from the American people through an immoral tax system, is
                      morally
                      > and
                      > > constitutionally acceptable. Under these circumstances it's no
                      > wonder a
                      > > system of runaway lobbying and special interests has
                      developed.
                      > Add this to
                      > > the military industrial complex that developed over the
                      decades
                      > due to a
                      > > foreign policy of perpetual war and foreign military
                      intervention,
                      > and we
                      > > shouldn't wonder why there is such a powerful motivation to
                      learn
                      > the tricks
                      > > of the lobbying trade - and why former members of Congress and
                      > their aides
                      > > become such high-priced commodities. Buying influence is much
                      more
                      > lucrative
                      > > than working and producing for a living. The trouble is the
                      > process invites
                      > > moral corruption. The dollars involved grow larger and larger
                      > because of the
                      > > deficit financing and inflation that pure democracy always
                      > generates.
                      > >
                      > > Dealing with lobbying scandals while ignoring the scandal of
                      > > unconstitutional runaway government will solve nothing. If
                      people
                      > truly
                      > > believe that reform is the solution, through regulating
                      lobbyists
                      > and
                      > > increasing congressional reporting requirements, the real
                      problem
                      > will be
                      > > ignored and never identified. This reform only makes things
                      worse.
                      > >
                      > > Greater regulation of lobbyists is a dangerous and unnecessary
                      > proposition.
                      > > If one expects to solve a problem without correctly
                      identifying
                      > its source,
                      > > the problem persists. The First amendment clearly
                      > states: "Congress shall
                      > > make no laws respecting.the right of the people.to petition
                      the
                      > government
                      > > for a redress of grievances." That means NO law!
                      > >
                      > > The problem of special interest government that breeds
                      corruption
                      > comes from
                      > > our lack of respect for the Constitution in the first place.
                      So
                      > what do we
                      > > do? We further violate the Constitution rather than examine it
                      for
                      > guidance
                      > > as to the proper role of the federal government. Laws
                      addressing
                      > bribery,
                      > > theft, and fraud, already on the books, are adequate to deal
                      with
                      > the
                      > > criminal activities associated with lobbying. New laws and
                      > regulations are
                      > > unnecessary.
                      > >
                      > > The theft that the federal government commits against its
                      > citizens, and the
                      > > power that Congress has assumed illegally, are the real crimes
                      > that need to
                      > > be dealt with. In this regard we truly do need a new
                      direction.
                      > Get rid of
                      > > the evil tax system; the fraudulent monetary system; and the
                      power
                      > of
                      > > government to run our lives, the economy, and the world; and
                      the
                      > Abramoff
                      > > types would be exposed for the mere gnats they are. There
                      would be
                      > a lot
                      > > less of them, since the incentives to buy politicians would be
                      > removed.
                      > >
                      > > Even under today's flawed system of democratic government,
                      which is
                      > > dedicated to redistributing property by force, a lot could be
                      > accomplished
                      > > if government attracted men and women of good will and
                      character.
                      > Members
                      > > could refuse to yield to the temptations of office, and reject
                      the
                      > path to a
                      > > lobbying career. But it seems once government adopts the rules
                      of
                      > > immorality, some of the participants in the process yield to
                      the
                      > temptation
                      > > as well, succumbing to the belief that the new moral standards
                      are
                      > > acceptable.
                      > >
                      > > Today though, any new rules designed to restrain special
                      interest
                      > favoritism
                      > > will only push the money further under the table. Too much is
                      at
                      > stake.
                      > > Corporations, bureaucrats, lobbyists, and politicians have
                      grown
                      > accustomed
                      > > to the system, and have learned to work within it to survive.
                      Only
                      > when the
                      > > trough is emptied will the country wake up. Eliminating
                      earmarks
                      > in the
                      > > budget will not solve the problem.
                      > >
                      > > Comparing the current scandal to the "big" one, the Abramoff
                      types
                      > are petty
                      > > thieves. The government deals in trillions of dollars; the
                      > Abramoffs in mere
                      > > tens of millions. Take a look at the undeclared war we're
                      bogged
                      > down in
                      > > 6,000 miles from our shores. We've spent 300 billion dollars
                      > already, but
                      > > Nobel prize winner Joseph Stiglitz argues that the war
                      actually
                      > will cost
                      > > between one and two trillion dollars when it's all over and
                      done
                      > with.
                      > > That's trillions, not billions. Even that figure is
                      unpredictable,
                      > because
                      > > we may be in Iraq another year or ten - who knows? Considering
                      the
                      > war had
                      > > nothing to do with our national security, we're talking big
                      bucks
                      > being
                      > > wasted and lining the pockets of many well-connected American
                      > corporations.
                      > > Waste, fraud, stupidity, and no-bid contracts characterize the
                      > process. And
                      > > it's all done in the name of patriotism and national security.
                      > Dissenters
                      > > are accused of supporting the enemy. Now this is a rip-off
                      that a
                      > little
                      > > tinkering with House rules and restraints on lobbyists won't
                      do
                      > much to
                      > > solve.
                      > >
                      > > Think of how this undeclared war has contributed to our
                      national
                      > deficit,
                      > > undermined military morale and preparedness, antagonized our
                      > allies, and
                      > > exposed us to an even greater threat from those who resent our
                      > destructive
                      > > occupation. Claiming we have no interests in the oil of the
                      entire
                      > Middle
                      > > East hardly helps our credibility throughout the world.
                      > >
                      > > The system of special interest government that has evolved
                      over
                      > the last
                      > > several decades has given us a national debt of over eight
                      > trillion dollars,
                      > > a debt that now expands by over 600 billion dollars each year.
                      Our
                      > total
                      > > obligations are estimated between fifteen and twenty trillion
                      > dollars. Most
                      > > people realize the Social Security system, the Medicare
                      system,
                      > and the new
                      > > prescription drug plan are unfunded. Thousands of private
                      pension
                      > funds are
                      > > now being dumped on the U.S. government and American
                      taxpayers. We
                      > are
                      > > borrowing over 700 billion dollars each year from foreigners
                      to
                      > finance this
                      > > extravagance, and we now qualify as the greatest international
                      > debtor nation
                      > > in history. Excessive consumption using borrowed money is
                      hardly
                      > the way to
                      > > secure a sound economy.
                      > >
                      > > Instead of reining in government spending, Congress remains
                      > oblivious to the
                      > > financial dangers and panders to special interests by offering
                      no
                      > resistance
                      > > whatsoever to every request for new spending. Congress spends
                      > nearly 2 ½
                      > > trillion dollars annually in an attempt to satisfy everyone's
                      > demands. The
                      > > system has generated over 200 trillion dollars of derivatives.
                      > These
                      > > problems can't be addressed with token leadership changes and
                      > tinkering with
                      > > the budget. A new and a dramatic direction is required.
                      > >
                      > > As current policy further erodes the budget, special interests
                      and
                      > members
                      > > of Congress become even more aggressive in their efforts to
                      > capture a piece
                      > > of the dwindling economic pie. That success is the measure of
                      > effectiveness
                      > > that guarantees a member's re-election.
                      > >
                      > > The biggest rip-off of all - the paper money system that is
                      > morally and
                      > > economically equivalent to counterfeiting - is never
                      questioned.
                      > It is the
                      > > deceptive tool for transferring billions from the unsuspecting
                      > poor and
                      > > middle-class to the special interest rich. And in the process,
                      the
                      > > deficit-propelled budget process supports the spending demands
                      of
                      > all the
                      > > special interests - left and right, welfare and warfare -
                      while
                      > delaying
                      > > payment to another day and sometimes even to another
                      generation.
                      > >
                      > > The enormous sums spent each year to support the influential
                      > special
                      > > interests expand exponentially, and no one really asks how it's
                      > > accomplished. Raising taxes to balance the budget is out of
                      the
                      > question -
                      > > and rightfully so. Foreigners have been generous in their
                      > willingness to
                      > > loan us most of what we need, but even that generosity is
                      limited
                      > and may
                      > > well diminish in the future.
                      > >
                      > > But if the Federal Reserve did not pick up the slack and
                      create
                      > huge amounts
                      > > of new credit and money out of thin air, interest rates would
                      rise
                      > and call
                      > > a halt to the charade. The people who suffer from a
                      depreciated
                      > dollar don't
                      > > understand why they suffer, while the people who benefit
                      promote
                      > the corrupt
                      > > system. The wealthy clean up on Wall Street, and the
                      > unsophisticated buy in
                      > > as the market tops off. Wealth is transferred from one group
                      to
                      > another, and
                      > > it's all related to the system that allows politicians and the
                      > central banks
                      > > to create money out of thin air. It's literally legalized
                      > counterfeiting.
                      > >
                      > > Is it any wonder jobs go overseas? True capital only comes
                      from
                      > savings, and
                      > > Americans save nothing. We only borrow and consume. A
                      > counterfeiter has no
                      > > incentive to take his newly created money and build factories.
                      The
                      > incentive
                      > > for Americans is to buy consumer goods from other countries
                      whose
                      > people are
                      > > willing to save and invest in their factories and jobs. The
                      only
                      > way we can
                      > > continue this charade is to borrow excess dollars back from
                      the
                      > foreign
                      > > governments who sell us goods, and perpetuate the pretense of
                      > wealth that we
                      > > enjoy.
                      > >
                      > > The system of money contributes significantly to the problem
                      of
                      > illegal
                      > > immigration. On the surface, immigrants escaping poverty in
                      Mexico
                      > and
                      > > Central America come here for the economic opportunity that
                      our
                      > economy
                      > > offers. However, the social services they receive, including
                      > education and
                      > > medical benefits - as well as the jobs they get - are
                      dependent on
                      > our
                      > > perpetual indebtedness to foreign countries. When the burden
                      of
                      > debt becomes
                      > > excessive, this incentive to seek prosperity here in the
                      United
                      > States will
                      > > change.
                      > >
                      > > The prime beneficiaries of a paper money system are those who
                      use
                      > the money
                      > > early - governments, politicians, bankers, international
                      > corporations, and
                      > > the military industrial complex. Those who suffer most are the
                      > ones at the
                      > > end of the money chain - the people forced to use depreciated
                      > dollars to buy
                      > > urgently needed goods and services to survive. And guess what?
                      By
                      > then their
                      > > money is worth less, prices soar, and their standard of living
                      > goes down.
                      > >
                      > > The consequences of this system, fully in place for the past
                      > thirty-four
                      > > years, are astronomical and impossible to accurately measure.
                      > Industries go
                      > > offshore and the jobs follow. Price inflation eats away at the
                      > middle class,
                      > > and deficits soar while spending escalates rapidly as Congress
                      > hopes to keep
                      > > up with the problems it created. The remaining wealth that we
                      > struggle to
                      > > hold onto is based on debt, future tax revenues, and our
                      ability to
                      > > manufacture new dollars without restraint. There's only one
                      > problem: it all
                      > > depends on trust in the dollar, especially by foreign holders
                      and
                      > > purchasers. This trust will end, and signs of the beginning of
                      the
                      > end are
                      > > already appearing.
                      > >
                      > > During this administration the dollar has suffered severely as
                      a
                      > consequence
                      > > of the policy of inflating the currency to pay our bills. The
                      > dollar price
                      > > of gold has more than doubled ($252 to $560 per ounce, a 122 %
                      > increase).
                      > > This means the dollar has depreciated in terms of gold, the
                      time-
                      > honored and
                      > > reliable measurement of a nation's currency, by an astounding
                      55%.
                      > The
                      > > long-term economic health of the nation is measured by the
                      > soundness of its
                      > > currency. Once Rome converted from a republic to an empire,
                      she
                      > depreciated
                      > > her currency to pay the bills. This eventually led to Rome's
                      > downfall. That
                      > > is exactly what America is facing unless we change our ways.
                      > >
                      > > Now this is a real scandal worth worrying about. Since it's
                      not
                      > yet on
                      > > Washington's radar screen, no attempt at addressing the
                      problem is
                      > being
                      > > made. Instead, we'll be sure to make those the Constitution
                      terms,
                      > > "petitioners to redress their grievances" fill out more forms.
                      > We'll make
                      > > government officials attend more ethics courses so they can
                      learn
                      > how to be
                      > > more ethical.
                      > >
                      > > A free nation, as it moves toward authoritarianism, tolerates
                      and
                      > hides a
                      > > lot of abuse in the system. The human impulse for wealth
                      creation
                      > is hard to
                      > > destroy. But in the end it will happen here, if true reform of
                      our
                      > economic,
                      > > monetary, and political system is not accomplished.
                      > >
                      > > Whether government programs are promoted for "good" causes
                      > (helping the
                      > > poor), or bad causes (permitting a military-industrial complex
                      to
                      > capitalize
                      > > on war profits), the principles of the market are undermined.
                      > Eventually
                      > > nearly everyone becomes dependent on the system of deficits,
                      > borrowing,
                      > > printing press money, and the special interest budget process
                      that
                      > > distributes loot by majority vote.
                      > >
                      > > Today, most business interests and the poor are dependent on
                      > government
                      > > handouts. Education and medical care are almost completely
                      > controlled and
                      > > regulated by an overpowering central government. We have come
                      to
                      > accept our
                      > > role as world policemen and nation builder with little
                      question,
                      > despite the
                      > > bad results and an inability to pay the bills.
                      > >
                      > > The question is, what will it take to bring about the changes
                      in
                      > policy
                      > > needed to reverse this dangerous trend? The answer is: quite a
                      > lot. And
                      > > unfortunately it's not on the horizon. It probably won't come
                      > until there is
                      > > a rejection of the dollar as the safest and strongest world
                      > currency, and a
                      > > return to commodity money like gold and silver to restore
                      > confidence.
                      > >
                      > > The Abramoff-type scandals come and go in Washington, patched
                      over
                      > with
                      > > grandiose schemes of reform that amount to nothing but more
                      > government and
                      > > congressional mischief. But our efforts should be directed
                      toward
                      > > eliminating the greatest of all frauds - printing press money
                      that
                      > creates
                      > > the political conditions breeding the vultures and leeches who
                      > feed off the
                      > > corrupt system.
                      > >
                      > > Counterfeiting money never creates wealth - it only steals
                      wealth
                      > from the
                      > > unsuspecting. The Federal Reserve creation of money is exactly
                      the
                      > same.
                      > > Increasing the dollars in circulation can only diminish the
                      value
                      > of each
                      > > existing dollar. Only production and jobs can make a country
                      > wealthy in the
                      > > long run. Today it's obvious our country is becoming poorer
                      and
                      > more uneasy
                      > > as our jobs and capital go overseas.
                      > >
                      > > The Abramoff scandal can serve a useful purpose if we put it
                      in
                      > context of
                      > > the entire system that encourages corruption.
                      > >
                      > > If it's seen as an isolated case of individual corruption, and
                      not
                      > an
                      > > expected consequence of big government run amuck, little good
                      will
                      > come of
                      > > it. If we understand how our system of government intervenes
                      in
                      > our personal
                      > > lives, the entire economy, and the internal affairs of nations
                      > around the
                      > > world, we can understand how it generates the conditions where
                      > lobbyists
                      > > thrive. Only then will some good come of it. Only then will we
                      > understand
                      > > that undermining the First amendment right of the people to
                      > petition their
                      > > government is hardly a solution to this much more serious and
                      > pervasive
                      > > problem.
                      > >
                      > > If we're inclined to improve conditions, we should give serious
                      > > consideration to the following policy reforms, reforms the
                      > American people
                      > > who cherish liberty would enthusiastically support:
                      > >
                      > > 1.. No more "No Child Left Behind" legislation;
                      > > 2.. No more prescription drug programs;
                      > > 3.. No more undeclared wars;
                      > > 4.. No more nation building;
                      > > 5.. No more acting as the world policemen;
                      > > 6.. No more deficits;
                      > > 7.. Cut spending - everywhere;
                      > > 8.. No more political and partisan resolutions designed to
                      > embarrass those
                      > > who may well have legitimate and honest disagreements with
                      current
                      > policy;
                      > > 9.. No inferences that disagreeing with policy is
                      unpatriotic or
                      > disloyal
                      > > to the country;
                      > > 10.. No more pretense of budget reform while ignoring off-
                      budget
                      > spending
                      > > and the ever-growing fourteen appropriations bills;
                      > > 11.. Cut funding for corporate welfare, foreign aid,
                      > international NGOs,
                      > > defense contractors, the military industrial complex, and rich
                      > corporate
                      > > farmers before cutting welfare for the poor at home;
                      > > 12.. No more unconstitutional intrusions into the privacy of
                      law-
                      > abiding
                      > > American citizens;
                      > > 13.. Reconsider the hysterical demands for security over
                      liberty
                      > by
                      > > curtailing the ever-expanding and oppressive wars on drugs,
                      tax
                      > violators,
                      > > and gun ownership.
                      > > Finally, why not try something novel, like having Congress act
                      as
                      > an
                      > > independent and equal branch of government? Restore the
                      principle
                      > of the
                      > > separation of powers, so that we can perform our duty to
                      provide
                      > checks and
                      > > balances on an executive branch (and an accommodating
                      judiciary)
                      > that spies
                      > > on Americans, glorifies the welfare state, fights undeclared
                      wars,
                      > and
                      > > enormously increases the national debt. Congress was not meant
                      to
                      > be a
                      > > rubber stamp. It's time for a new direction.
                      > >
                      > > January 19, 2006
                      > >
                      > > Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from Texas.
                      > >
                      > > Denise
                      > >
                      > > Denise Bensusan
                      > > SPEAK OUT ARIZONA
                      > > A Not for Profit Community Active Publication
                      > > http://www.frontiernet.net/~denise.bensusan/
                      > >
                      > > "Our safety, our liberty, depends upon preserving the
                      Constitution
                      > of the
                      > > United States as our Fathers made it inviolate. The people of
                      the
                      > United
                      > > States are the rightful masters of both Congress and the
                      Courts,
                      > not to
                      > > overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who
                      pervert
                      > the
                      > > Constitution." - Abraham Lincoln
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > _____
                      >
                      > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > * Visit your group "arizonaporcupines
                      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arizonaporcupines> " on the web.
                      >
                      >
                      > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                      > <mailto:arizonaporcupines-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
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                      >








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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Denise Bensusan
                      Sandy, I agree with you on Ross Perot and I DID vote fro him!!! Wasn t his family threatened the next time around or something and he backed away from the
                      Message 10 of 21 , Jan 23, 2006
                        Sandy,

                        I agree with you on Ross Perot and I DID vote fro him!!! Wasn't his family threatened the next time around or something and he backed away from the race?

                        I think Badnarik believes that the IRS violates the constitution and that's what makes it illegal. I have some docs that support this belief and will try to put my hands on them and forward them.

                        I think the LP needs a different candidate (other than Badnarik) in order to become pliable. Just my personal opinion.



                        ---- Original Message -----
                        From: Sandra Price
                        To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 5:26 AM
                        Subject: RE: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction


                        Derek, you are correct about the lack of interest within the LP for the many
                        issues that were part of the early days of the Libertarian movement. Their
                        candidates have no real desire to win and get the impression they want the
                        government to fail so we can start all over. I met Michael Badnarik on
                        several occasions and was not impressed with his knowledge of the
                        Constitution. He has his own version of how it should be interpreted and
                        amended and he is simply wrong. He is also a member of a group of men who
                        believe the IRS is against the law. It is legal and has been a part of the
                        laws of America for many years under the authority of the House and Senate.




                        The only way to clean up the IRS is by legal legislation done through the
                        Congress and until Badnarik recognizes this fact, he will be dealing with
                        many criminals who have done time in prison and will continue to be declared
                        criminals.



                        I will never support any candidate who refuses to play by the accepted rules
                        of law. I am now an Independent voter and will concentrate on removing
                        every damn congressman running in 2006. They all folded up under the Bush
                        Administration and have shown themselves incapable of determining what is
                        legal and correct. These fools want a Police State to be designed and run
                        by the White House. The Bush administration wants full control over our
                        lives and will eliminate our state rights.



                        I am not a Christian and will refuse to live by the Bible over the authority
                        of our individual rights as are shown in the U.S. Constitution. I do not
                        want the Bible introduced into our schools and being an advocate of
                        Evolution, feel it should be taught as a science. The American family has
                        the choice of family size at this time and I resent having this choice taken
                        away. I am not a proponent of abortion but it must remain a choice for the
                        mother, father and clergy, not some asshole in the White House.

                        HHHH



                        There is a lot wrong in our government but there are legal ways of changing
                        what we find offensive. The LP simply ignores what they find wrong and will
                        end up supporting chaos.



                        Many of us are searching for a third party candidate for all our elections
                        in 2006 and 2008 because the Republicans and Democrats have fallen overboard
                        in their leadership. We need another Ross Perot to cut through the crap the
                        current parties are selling at this time.



                        I have followed the FSP since the day it was introduced and they too are
                        floundering around without a purpose. I love the concept but not the way
                        they are wandering all over the place trying to find an agenda.



                        Sandy Pricee has



                        _____



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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                      • Denise Bensusan
                        Derek, Do you have an organized activist group at your college??? Denise ... From: Derek Williams To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January
                        Message 11 of 21 , Jan 23, 2006
                          Derek,

                          Do you have an organized activist group at your college???


                          Denise
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Derek Williams
                          To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 8:50 PM
                          Subject: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction


                          I don't know what the problem with the LP is. I wrote a letter once
                          to the national LP (the party itself), and all they did was write me
                          back and tell me if I REALLY wanted to help, I should just give them
                          money. Well, #1, I am in college right now, and everyone knows how
                          broke college students are. I don't have any money to give right
                          now. #2, IF I had money to give, I would want to have reason to
                          believe that I was going to get a return on my investment. IE,
                          candidates elected, or at least have some GOOD, respectable
                          candidates run for office, and have someone come up with an idea of
                          how to relate to the general public.

                          I have many complaints about Libertarians running for office. We
                          had a guy when I lived in Tampa, FL, who ran as a Libertarian for an
                          office, who was a local strip bar owner and he was always in court
                          fighting with the city, or the county, etc. He seemed to be on a
                          one man crusade to be able to "do his thing". The problem with that
                          is that he cannot relate to, nor will he get votes from, the
                          Christian community or other normal, decent, family type people (the
                          majority that you have to get support from). Most people see strip
                          bar owners and adult book store owners as sleazy characters. I
                          don't want them representing my party to the public. I cannot in
                          good conscience (being a Christian) vote for a guy like that.

                          Ron Paul is definitely respectable and a good guy. No wonder he
                          keeps getting re-elected. I also think that Mike Badnarik will get
                          elected this time in Texas. He is a respectable guy with good views
                          on the issues. They have good careers away from politics and we
                          need more people like these two running for office.

                          I was actually disappointed in the FSP recently because they made
                          such a big deal about the licensing of barbers, cosmetologists, and
                          manicurists in NH. If you are unfamiliar with it, that was where
                          one of the FSP members did a manucure without a license, and got
                          arrested for it to get on the news. Now they have some bills
                          pending to eliminate the requirements (or at least cut down on the
                          training required) for barbers, cosmetologists, and manicurists.

                          Ok, here is the thing: Even though I am not a big fan of state
                          regulation, and barriers to entry in business, if these people
                          (barbers, manucurists,etc) are not taught properly how to disinfect
                          their appliances / tools, they can spread diseases to and among
                          their clients. I read about singer / American Idol judge Paula
                          Abdul getting a very nasty nail fungus a while back from a nail
                          salon where they did not disinfect the tools. Here is a link to
                          this story:

                          http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=28361

                          Reportedly, this infection was also spread to many other clients.

                          Now, with stories like this going on, why in the world would the FSP
                          pick THIS issue to fight for less regulation about? Do they think
                          that the people of NH want to risk severe nail infection getting
                          manucures? These bills will be squashed quickly.

                          You can also get lice from non-sterile barber tools. I would not
                          want to have to go through lice treatment because some unlicensed
                          barber didn't sterilize his clippers. (Luckily, I cut my own hair
                          with clippers at home, but most people cannot do this and have to
                          trust that their barber's tools are sterile and clean.)

                          So I think that this was a bad fight to pick. Better fights to pick
                          would be about taxes (most people hate taxes), or the efforts of the
                          FDA / Drug Companies / Codex Alimentarius commission to ban /
                          overregulate dietary supplements, and some of the violations of
                          privacy that are occurring as a result of the Patriot Act. I think
                          there is more public support over health freedom than there is over
                          any other issue. Nobody wants the government to tell them what they
                          can and cannot put in their bodies.

                          I recently wrote to Badnarik's campaign about this and he did not
                          have health freedom in his platform, other than market reforms which
                          benefit drug companies, making drugs cheaper for everyone. I wrote
                          them about it (and how it should include protection for alternative
                          medicine and dietary supplements and fair and accurate claims on
                          such) and was invited to write a position paper on it of about 200
                          words length. Now, his health care policy / position has health
                          freedom in it. (I wrote the first 2 paragraphs of the statement,
                          and they liked what I wrote enough to use it - the rest of it is
                          theirs.)

                          Ron Paul has campaigned for health freedom as well, and I think this
                          contributes to his popularity. I think the public would be very
                          supportive of a Gold or Silver standard also, if it were properly
                          and simply explained to them so that they could understand it
                          without taking too long and boring them, or confusing them. I think
                          that nearly ALL senior citizens (a big voting block) would be very
                          keen to adapt a Gold standard after it is explained to them that the
                          reason their pension or SS money is worth less and less every year
                          is because of inflation caused by printing more and more paper
                          money. Newly married couples and college students should like it
                          too, because it would keep them from being priced out of a house
                          when they are ready to buy their first one. Christians should buy
                          this as well, as paper money violates the Biblical standard of "just
                          weights and measures". After all, your money is worth less and
                          less, the more they print of it. Every loan they make that is not
                          backed by Gold or at least deposits in the banks, is more money
                          created out of thin air, which dilutes the purchasing power of every
                          dollar you and I work so hard for.

                          Funny how we could not imagine buying gas or vegetables without that
                          state dept. of Agriculture certification that the scales or pump are
                          accurate, but we allow the government to water down our money supply
                          so that they can spend more and more and then just pay it back with
                          inflated dollars further on down the road. If someone explained
                          this to the public, they should be able to win a debate easily. Why
                          do the Libertarians not articulate this clearly in debates or
                          advertisements?

                          By the way, I went to a couple of Libertarian meetings in Maricopa
                          County. I have not been to one yet in Tucson. I found somewhere on
                          the web where they meet, but just haven't made it out to a meeting
                          yet.

                          These are just my thoughts. What do you all think about these
                          issues?

                          Derek








                          --- In arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra Price" <s@r...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > Do we even have an active LP organization here? I attended the LP
                          > Convention in Tucson in 2004 and was not impressed with the
                          choices of
                          > candidates. From what I understand, the LP will not vote, even for
                          > themselves. To hell with that!
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Sandy Price
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                          > [mailto:arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denise
                          Bensusan
                          > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 12:53 PM
                          > To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: Re: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Heck..I think he should run for president!!! I have not seen too
                          much that
                          > Ron Paul speaks about that I disagree with.
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: Derek
                          > To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 9:59 AM
                          > Subject: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction
                          >
                          >
                          > Ron Paul speaks for me as well. I was wondering, does anyone
                          know
                          > who is going to run for the US House seat being vacated at the
                          end
                          > of this term by Jim Kolbe in Tucson? This might be a good time
                          for
                          > a Libertarian to step up and try to win this seat. Or even if
                          we
                          > could get another "Ron Paul - type Republican" that would be
                          good
                          > too. Anything other than another "rubber stamp" for Bush's
                          > shenanigans.
                          >
                          > Derek Williams
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra Price"
                          <s@r...>
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Words of wisdom! He speaks for me!!
                          > >
                          > > Sandy Price
                          > >
                          > > -----Original Message-----
                          > > From: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                          > > [mailto:arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denise
                          > Bensusan
                          > > Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 2:18 PM
                          > > To: "SPEAK OUT ARIZONA"
                          > > Subject: [arizonaporcupines] Searching for a New Direction
                          > >
                          > > Forwarded for your interest:
                          > >
                          > > Searching for a New Direction
                          > >
                          > > by Ron Paul
                          > > by Ron Paul
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Before the US House of Representatives, January 18, 2006
                          > >
                          > > The Abramoff scandal has been described as the biggest
                          Washington
                          > scandal
                          > > ever: bigger than Watergate; bigger than Abscam; bigger than
                          > Koreagate;
                          > > bigger than the House banking scandal; bigger than Teapot
                          Dome.
                          > Possibly so.
                          > > It's certainly serious and significant.
                          > >
                          > > It has prompted urgent proposals of suggested reforms to deal
                          with
                          > the mess.
                          > > If only we have more rules and regulations, more reporting
                          > requirements, and
                          > > stricter enforcement of laws, the American people will be
                          assured
                          > we mean
                          > > business. Ethics and character will return to the halls of
                          > Congress. It is
                          > > argued that new champions of reform should be elected to
                          leadership
                          > > positions, to show how serious we are about dealing with the
                          > crisis of
                          > > confidence generated by the Abramoff affair. Then all will be
                          > well. But it's
                          > > not so simple. Maybe what we have seen so far is just the tip
                          of
                          > the
                          > > iceberg, an insidious crisis staring us in the face that we
                          refuse
                          > to
                          > > properly identify and deal with.
                          > >
                          > > It's been suggested we need to change course and correct the
                          way
                          > Congress is
                          > > run. A good idea, but if we merely tinker with current
                          attitudes
                          > about what
                          > > role the federal government ought to play in our lives, it
                          won't
                          > do much to
                          > > solve the ethics crisis. True reform is impossible without
                          > addressing the
                          > > immorality of wealth redistribution. Merely electing new
                          leaders
                          > and writing
                          > > more rules to regulate those who petition Congress will
                          achieve
                          > nothing.
                          > >
                          > > Could it be that we're all looking in the wrong places for a
                          > solution to
                          > > recurring, constant, and pervasive corruption in government?
                          > Perhaps some of
                          > > us in Congress are mistaken about the true problem; perhaps
                          others
                          > > deliberately distract us from exposing the truth about how
                          > miserably corrupt
                          > > the budget process in Congress is. Others simply are in a
                          state of
                          > denial.
                          > > But the denial will come to an end as the Abramoff scandal
                          reveals
                          > more and
                          > > more. It eventually will expose the scandal of the ages: how
                          and
                          > to what
                          > > degree the American people have become indebted by the totally
                          > irresponsible
                          > > spending habits of the U.S. Congress - as encouraged by
                          successive
                          > > administrations, condoned by our courts, and enjoyed by the
                          > recipients of
                          > > the largesse.
                          > >
                          > > This system of government is coming to an end - a fact that
                          > significantly
                          > > contributes to the growing anxiety of most Americans,
                          especially
                          > those who
                          > > pay the bills and receive little in return from the corrupt
                          system
                          > that has
                          > > evolved over the decades.
                          > >
                          > > Believe me, if everybody benefited equally there would be
                          scant
                          > outcry over
                          > > a little bribery and influence peddling. As our country grows
                          > poorer and
                          > > more indebted, fewer people benefit. The beneficiaries are not
                          the
                          > > hard-working, honest people who pay the taxes. The groups that
                          > master the
                          > > system of lobbying and special interest legislation are the
                          ones
                          > who truly
                          > > benefit.
                          > >
                          > > The steady erosion of real wealth in this country, and the
                          > dependency on
                          > > government generated by welfarism and warfarism, presents
                          itself
                          > as the
                          > > crisis of the ages. Lobbying scandals and the need for new
                          > leadership are
                          > > mere symptoms of a much, much deeper problem.
                          > >
                          > > There are quite a few reasons a relatively free country allows
                          > itself to
                          > > fall into such an ethical and financial mess.
                          > >
                          > > One major contributing factor for the past hundred years is
                          our
                          > serious
                          > > misunderstanding of the dangers of pure democracy. The
                          founders
                          > detested
                          > > democracy and avoided the use of the word in all the early
                          > documents. Today,
                          > > most Americans accept without question a policy of sacrificing
                          > life,
                          > > property, and dollars to force "democracy" on a country 6,000
                          > miles away.
                          > > This tells us how little opposition there is to "democracy."
                          No one
                          > > questions the principle that a majority electorate should be
                          > allowed to rule
                          > > the country, dictate rights, and redistribute wealth.
                          > >
                          > > Our system of democracy has come to mean worshipping the
                          notion
                          > that a
                          > > majority vote for the distribution of government largesse,
                          loot
                          > confiscated
                          > > from the American people through an immoral tax system, is
                          morally
                          > and
                          > > constitutionally acceptable. Under these circumstances it's no
                          > wonder a
                          > > system of runaway lobbying and special interests has
                          developed.
                          > Add this to
                          > > the military industrial complex that developed over the
                          decades
                          > due to a
                          > > foreign policy of perpetual war and foreign military
                          intervention,
                          > and we
                          > > shouldn't wonder why there is such a powerful motivation to
                          learn
                          > the tricks
                          > > of the lobbying trade - and why former members of Congress and
                          > their aides
                          > > become such high-priced commodities. Buying influence is much
                          more
                          > lucrative
                          > > than working and producing for a living. The trouble is the
                          > process invites
                          > > moral corruption. The dollars involved grow larger and larger
                          > because of the
                          > > deficit financing and inflation that pure democracy always
                          > generates.
                          > >
                          > > Dealing with lobbying scandals while ignoring the scandal of
                          > > unconstitutional runaway government will solve nothing. If
                          people
                          > truly
                          > > believe that reform is the solution, through regulating
                          lobbyists
                          > and
                          > > increasing congressional reporting requirements, the real
                          problem
                          > will be
                          > > ignored and never identified. This reform only makes things
                          worse.
                          > >
                          > > Greater regulation of lobbyists is a dangerous and unnecessary
                          > proposition.
                          > > If one expects to solve a problem without correctly
                          identifying
                          > its source,
                          > > the problem persists. The First amendment clearly
                          > states: "Congress shall
                          > > make no laws respecting.the right of the people.to petition
                          the
                          > government
                          > > for a redress of grievances." That means NO law!
                          > >
                          > > The problem of special interest government that breeds
                          corruption
                          > comes from
                          > > our lack of respect for the Constitution in the first place.
                          So
                          > what do we
                          > > do? We further violate the Constitution rather than examine it
                          for
                          > guidance
                          > > as to the proper role of the federal government. Laws
                          addressing
                          > bribery,
                          > > theft, and fraud, already on the books, are adequate to deal
                          with
                          > the
                          > > criminal activities associated with lobbying. New laws and
                          > regulations are
                          > > unnecessary.
                          > >
                          > > The theft that the federal government commits against its
                          > citizens, and the
                          > > power that Congress has assumed illegally, are the real crimes
                          > that need to
                          > > be dealt with. In this regard we truly do need a new
                          direction.
                          > Get rid of
                          > > the evil tax system; the fraudulent monetary system; and the
                          power
                          > of
                          > > government to run our lives, the economy, and the world; and
                          the
                          > Abramoff
                          > > types would be exposed for the mere gnats they are. There
                          would be
                          > a lot
                          > > less of them, since the incentives to buy politicians would be
                          > removed.
                          > >
                          > > Even under today's flawed system of democratic government,
                          which is
                          > > dedicated to redistributing property by force, a lot could be
                          > accomplished
                          > > if government attracted men and women of good will and
                          character.
                          > Members
                          > > could refuse to yield to the temptations of office, and reject
                          the
                          > path to a
                          > > lobbying career. But it seems once government adopts the rules
                          of
                          > > immorality, some of the participants in the process yield to
                          the
                          > temptation
                          > > as well, succumbing to the belief that the new moral standards
                          are
                          > > acceptable.
                          > >
                          > > Today though, any new rules designed to restrain special
                          interest
                          > favoritism
                          > > will only push the money further under the table. Too much is
                          at
                          > stake.
                          > > Corporations, bureaucrats, lobbyists, and politicians have
                          grown
                          > accustomed
                          > > to the system, and have learned to work within it to survive.
                          Only
                          > when the
                          > > trough is emptied will the country wake up. Eliminating
                          earmarks
                          > in the
                          > > budget will not solve the problem.
                          > >
                          > > Comparing the current scandal to the "big" one, the Abramoff
                          types
                          > are petty
                          > > thieves. The government deals in trillions of dollars; the
                          > Abramoffs in mere
                          > > tens of millions. Take a look at the undeclared war we're
                          bogged
                          > down in
                          > > 6,000 miles from our shores. We've spent 300 billion dollars
                          > already, but
                          > > Nobel prize winner Joseph Stiglitz argues that the war
                          actually
                          > will cost
                          > > between one and two trillion dollars when it's all over and
                          done
                          > with.
                          > > That's trillions, not billions. Even that figure is
                          unpredictable,
                          > because
                          > > we may be in Iraq another year or ten - who knows? Considering
                          the
                          > war had
                          > > nothing to do with our national security, we're talking big
                          bucks
                          > being
                          > > wasted and lining the pockets of many well-connected American
                          > corporations.
                          > > Waste, fraud, stupidity, and no-bid contracts characterize the
                          > process. And
                          > > it's all done in the name of patriotism and national security.
                          > Dissenters
                          > > are accused of supporting the enemy. Now this is a rip-off
                          that a
                          > little
                          > > tinkering with House rules and restraints on lobbyists won't
                          do
                          > much to
                          > > solve.
                          > >
                          > > Think of how this undeclared war has contributed to our
                          national
                          > deficit,
                          > > undermined military morale and preparedness, antagonized our
                          > allies, and
                          > > exposed us to an even greater threat from those who resent our
                          > destructive
                          > > occupation. Claiming we have no interests in the oil of the
                          entire
                          > Middle
                          > > East hardly helps our credibility throughout the world.
                          > >
                          > > The system of special interest government that has evolved
                          over
                          > the last
                          > > several decades has given us a national debt of over eight
                          > trillion dollars,
                          > > a debt that now expands by over 600 billion dollars each year.
                          Our
                          > total
                          > > obligations are estimated between fifteen and twenty trillion
                          > dollars. Most
                          > > people realize the Social Security system, the Medicare
                          system,
                          > and the new
                          > > prescription drug plan are unfunded. Thousands of private
                          pension
                          > funds are
                          > > now being dumped on the U.S. government and American
                          taxpayers. We
                          > are
                          > > borrowing over 700 billion dollars each year from foreigners
                          to
                          > finance this
                          > > extravagance, and we now qualify as the greatest international
                          > debtor nation
                          > > in history. Excessive consumption using borrowed money is
                          hardly
                          > the way to
                          > > secure a sound economy.
                          > >
                          > > Instead of reining in government spending, Congress remains
                          > oblivious to the
                          > > financial dangers and panders to special interests by offering
                          no
                          > resistance
                          > > whatsoever to every request for new spending. Congress spends
                          > nearly 2 ½
                          > > trillion dollars annually in an attempt to satisfy everyone's
                          > demands. The
                          > > system has generated over 200 trillion dollars of derivatives.
                          > These
                          > > problems can't be addressed with token leadership changes and
                          > tinkering with
                          > > the budget. A new and a dramatic direction is required.
                          > >
                          > > As current policy further erodes the budget, special interests
                          and
                          > members
                          > > of Congress become even more aggressive in their efforts to
                          > capture a piece
                          > > of the dwindling economic pie. That success is the measure of
                          > effectiveness
                          > > that guarantees a member's re-election.
                          > >
                          > > The biggest rip-off of all - the paper money system that is
                          > morally and
                          > > economically equivalent to counterfeiting - is never
                          questioned.
                          > It is the
                          > > deceptive tool for transferring billions from the unsuspecting
                          > poor and
                          > > middle-class to the special interest rich. And in the process,
                          the
                          > > deficit-propelled budget process supports the spending demands
                          of
                          > all the
                          > > special interests - left and right, welfare and warfare -
                          while
                          > delaying
                          > > payment to another day and sometimes even to another
                          generation.
                          > >
                          > > The enormous sums spent each year to support the influential
                          > special
                          > > interests expand exponentially, and no one really asks how it's
                          > > accomplished. Raising taxes to balance the budget is out of
                          the
                          > question -
                          > > and rightfully so. Foreigners have been generous in their
                          > willingness to
                          > > loan us most of what we need, but even that generosity is
                          limited
                          > and may
                          > > well diminish in the future.
                          > >
                          > > But if the Federal Reserve did not pick up the slack and
                          create
                          > huge amounts
                          > > of new credit and money out of thin air, interest rates would
                          rise
                          > and call
                          > > a halt to the charade. The people who suffer from a
                          depreciated
                          > dollar don't
                          > > understand why they suffer, while the people who benefit
                          promote
                          > the corrupt
                          > > system. The wealthy clean up on Wall Street, and the
                          > unsophisticated buy in
                          > > as the market tops off. Wealth is transferred from one group
                          to
                          > another, and
                          > > it's all related to the system that allows politicians and the
                          > central banks
                          > > to create money out of thin air. It's literally legalized
                          > counterfeiting.
                          > >
                          > > Is it any wonder jobs go overseas? True capital only comes
                          from
                          > savings, and
                          > > Americans save nothing. We only borrow and consume. A
                          > counterfeiter has no
                          > > incentive to take his newly created money and build factories.
                          The
                          > incentive
                          > > for Americans is to buy consumer goods from other countries
                          whose
                          > people are
                          > > willing to save and invest in their factories and jobs. The
                          only
                          > way we can
                          > > continue this charade is to borrow excess dollars back from
                          the
                          > foreign
                          > > governments who sell us goods, and perpetuate the pretense of
                          > wealth that we
                          > > enjoy.
                          > >
                          > > The system of money contributes significantly to the problem
                          of
                          > illegal
                          > > immigration. On the surface, immigrants escaping poverty in
                          Mexico
                          > and
                          > > Central America come here for the economic opportunity that
                          our
                          > economy
                          > > offers. However, the social services they receive, including
                          > education and
                          > > medical benefits - as well as the jobs they get - are
                          dependent on
                          > our
                          > > perpetual indebtedness to foreign countries. When the burden
                          of
                          > debt becomes
                          > > excessive, this incentive to seek prosperity here in the
                          United
                          > States will
                          > > change.
                          > >
                          > > The prime beneficiaries of a paper money system are those who
                          use
                          > the money
                          > > early - governments, politicians, bankers, international
                          > corporations, and
                          > > the military industrial complex. Those who suffer most are the
                          > ones at the
                          > > end of the money chain - the people forced to use depreciated
                          > dollars to buy
                          > > urgently needed goods and services to survive. And guess what?
                          By
                          > then their
                          > > money is worth less, prices soar, and their standard of living
                          > goes down.
                          > >
                          > > The consequences of this system, fully in place for the past
                          > thirty-four
                          > > years, are astronomical and impossible to accurately measure.
                          > Industries go
                          > > offshore and the jobs follow. Price inflation eats away at the
                          > middle class,
                          > > and deficits soar while spending escalates rapidly as Congress
                          > hopes to keep
                          > > up with the problems it created. The remaining wealth that we
                          > struggle to
                          > > hold onto is based on debt, future tax revenues, and our
                          ability to
                          > > manufacture new dollars without restraint. There's only one
                          > problem: it all
                          > > depends on trust in the dollar, especially by foreign holders
                          and
                          > > purchasers. This trust will end, and signs of the beginning of
                          the
                          > end are
                          > > already appearing.
                          > >
                          > > During this administration the dollar has suffered severely as
                          a
                          > consequence
                          > > of the policy of inflating the currency to pay our bills. The
                          > dollar price
                          > > of gold has more than doubled ($252 to $560 per ounce, a 122 %
                          > increase).
                          > > This means the dollar has depreciated in terms of gold, the
                          time-
                          > honored and
                          > > reliable measurement of a nation's currency, by an astounding
                          55%.
                          > The
                          > > long-term economic health of the nation is measured by the
                          > soundness of its
                          > > currency. Once Rome converted from a republic to an empire,
                          she
                          > depreciated
                          > > her currency to pay the bills. This eventually led to Rome's
                          > downfall. That
                          > > is exactly what America is facing unless we change our ways.
                          > >
                          > > Now this is a real scandal worth worrying about. Since it's
                          not
                          > yet on
                          > > Washington's radar screen, no attempt at addressing the
                          problem is
                          > being
                          > > made. Instead, we'll be sure to make those the Constitution
                          terms,
                          > > "petitioners to redress their grievances" fill out more forms.
                          > We'll make
                          > > government officials attend more ethics courses so they can
                          learn
                          > how to be
                          > > more ethical.
                          > >
                          > > A free nation, as it moves toward authoritarianism, tolerates
                          and
                          > hides a
                          > > lot of abuse in the system. The human impulse for wealth
                          creation
                          > is hard to
                          > > destroy. But in the end it will happen here, if true reform of
                          our
                          > economic,
                          > > monetary, and political system is not accomplished.
                          > >
                          > > Whether government programs are promoted for "good" causes
                          > (helping the
                          > > poor), or bad causes (permitting a military-industrial complex
                          to
                          > capitalize
                          > > on war profits), the principles of the market are undermined.
                          > Eventually
                          > > nearly everyone becomes dependent on the system of deficits,
                          > borrowing,
                          > > printing press money, and the special interest budget process
                          that
                          > > distributes loot by majority vote.
                          > >
                          > > Today, most business interests and the poor are dependent on
                          > government
                          > > handouts. Education and medical care are almost completely
                          > controlled and
                          > > regulated by an overpowering central government. We have come
                          to
                          > accept our
                          > > role as world policemen and nation builder with little
                          question,
                          > despite the
                          > > bad results and an inability to pay the bills.
                          > >
                          > > The question is, what will it take to bring about the changes
                          in
                          > policy
                          > > needed to reverse this dangerous trend? The answer is: quite a
                          > lot. And
                          > > unfortunately it's not on the horizon. It probably won't come
                          > until there is
                          > > a rejection of the dollar as the safest and strongest world
                          > currency, and a
                          > > return to commodity money like gold and silver to restore
                          > confidence.
                          > >
                          > > The Abramoff-type scandals come and go in Washington, patched
                          over
                          > with
                          > > grandiose schemes of reform that amount to nothing but more
                          > government and
                          > > congressional mischief. But our efforts should be directed
                          toward
                          > > eliminating the greatest of all frauds - printing press money
                          that
                          > creates
                          > > the political conditions breeding the vultures and leeches who
                          > feed off the
                          > > corrupt system.
                          > >
                          > > Counterfeiting money never creates wealth - it only steals
                          wealth
                          > from the
                          > > unsuspecting. The Federal Reserve creation of money is exactly
                          the
                          > same.
                          > > Increasing the dollars in circulation can only diminish the
                          value
                          > of each
                          > > existing dollar. Only production and jobs can make a country
                          > wealthy in the
                          > > long run. Today it's obvious our country is becoming poorer
                          and
                          > more uneasy
                          > > as our jobs and capital go overseas.
                          > >
                          > > The Abramoff scandal can serve a useful purpose if we put it
                          in
                          > context of
                          > > the entire system that encourages corruption.
                          > >
                          > > If it's seen as an isolated case of individual corruption, and
                          not
                          > an
                          > > expected consequence of big government run amuck, little good
                          will
                          > come of
                          > > it. If we understand how our system of government intervenes
                          in
                          > our personal
                          > > lives, the entire economy, and the internal affairs of nations
                          > around the
                          > > world, we can understand how it generates the conditions where
                          > lobbyists
                          > > thrive. Only then will some good come of it. Only then will we
                          > understand
                          > > that undermining the First amendment right of the people to
                          > petition their
                          > > government is hardly a solution to this much more serious and
                          > pervasive
                          > > problem.
                          > >
                          > > If we're inclined to improve conditions, we should give serious
                          > > consideration to the following policy reforms, reforms the
                          > American people
                          > > who cherish liberty would enthusiastically support:
                          > >
                          > > 1.. No more "No Child Left Behind" legislation;
                          > > 2.. No more prescription drug programs;
                          > > 3.. No more undeclared wars;
                          > > 4.. No more nation building;
                          > > 5.. No more acting as the world policemen;
                          > > 6.. No more deficits;
                          > > 7.. Cut spending - everywhere;
                          > > 8.. No more political and partisan resolutions designed to
                          > embarrass those
                          > > who may well have legitimate and honest disagreements with
                          current
                          > policy;
                          > > 9.. No inferences that disagreeing with policy is
                          unpatriotic or
                          > disloyal
                          > > to the country;
                          > > 10.. No more pretense of budget reform while ignoring off-
                          budget
                          > spending
                          > > and the ever-growing fourteen appropriations bills;
                          > > 11.. Cut funding for corporate welfare, foreign aid,
                          > international NGOs,
                          > > defense contractors, the military industrial complex, and rich
                          > corporate
                          > > farmers before cutting welfare for the poor at home;
                          > > 12.. No more unconstitutional intrusions into the privacy of
                          law-
                          > abiding
                          > > American citizens;
                          > > 13.. Reconsider the hysterical demands for security over
                          liberty
                          > by
                          > > curtailing the ever-expanding and oppressive wars on drugs,
                          tax
                          > violators,
                          > > and gun ownership.
                          > > Finally, why not try something novel, like having Congress act
                          as
                          > an
                          > > independent and equal branch of government? Restore the
                          principle
                          > of the
                          > > separation of powers, so that we can perform our duty to
                          provide
                          > checks and
                          > > balances on an executive branch (and an accommodating
                          judiciary)
                          > that spies
                          > > on Americans, glorifies the welfare state, fights undeclared
                          wars,
                          > and
                          > > enormously increases the national debt. Congress was not meant
                          to
                          > be a
                          > > rubber stamp. It's time for a new direction.
                          > >
                          > > January 19, 2006
                          > >
                          > > Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from Texas.
                          > >
                          > > Denise
                          > >
                          > > Denise Bensusan
                          > > SPEAK OUT ARIZONA
                          > > A Not for Profit Community Active Publication
                          > > http://www.frontiernet.net/~denise.bensusan/
                          > >
                          > > "Our safety, our liberty, depends upon preserving the
                          Constitution
                          > of the
                          > > United States as our Fathers made it inviolate. The people of
                          the
                          > United
                          > > States are the rightful masters of both Congress and the
                          Courts,
                          > not to
                          > > overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who
                          pervert
                          > the
                          > > Constitution." - Abraham Lincoln
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > _____
                          >
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                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > * Visit your group "arizonaporcupines
                          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arizonaporcupines> " on the web.
                          >
                          >
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                          >








                          Yahoo! Groups Links









                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Derek
                          I didn t really see anything wrong with Badnarik. Truth be told, however, I did like Aaron Russo better before Badnarik was selected over him. I do not think
                          Message 12 of 21 , Jan 23, 2006
                            I didn't really see anything wrong with Badnarik. Truth be told,
                            however, I did like Aaron Russo better before Badnarik was selected
                            over him.

                            I do not think we have a chance of winning the white house any time
                            soon, however, I do think that it adds to our legitimacy to run
                            somebody for the office each time. I DO, however, think that we can
                            very possibly win US House seats in certain areas, and I think that
                            Badnarik may just be in such an area to win this time.

                            I think that if we run good people like Badnarik, Russo, etc, for US
                            house seats in carefully selected areas where they have a good
                            chance of winning (like NH or Texas or Nevada), and they do a good
                            job and don't embarrass the party when they win, it will help us to
                            look more legitimate and then we can run for statewide seats like
                            Governor and US Senator and actually be competitive.

                            I also think that we need to tone down the "crazier" elements of our
                            party's positions and emphasize more the ones that more of the
                            general public will accept. The way the democrats and republicans
                            got us into this mess was a little at a time. Short of another
                            revolutionary war, or state seccession, probably the only peaceful
                            way to take it back is by incrementalization also. I would define
                            the "crazier" elements as the legalization of drugs, prostitution,
                            and polygamy. Most average Americans simply will not accept these
                            things. So why even mention them? They should not even be
                            mentioned as issues.

                            But Gold backed money, abolition of the IRS, and removing barriers
                            to entry for small businesses would all be popular causes. And I
                            did not know that Badnarik was involved with some of the "tax
                            protestor" people. I used to live in rural NC, and we had a lot of
                            tax protestors and militia members back there. Most of the tax
                            protestors went to PRISON as soon as they were caught and tried.
                            And judges do not even let them use their "unconstitutional"
                            arguments in court. So it would benefit us to tell our candidates
                            to not even use that line, and instead legislate away the IRS in
                            congress and the senate. If the gov't still insisted on a national
                            tax of some sort, it should be limited to something like a 1%
                            national sales tax, but have it capped to only 1% max by a
                            constitutional amendment. I think that would be popular.

                            Also, it wouldn't hurt us to find some well known celebrity
                            candidates to run for office, that wouldn't do something stupid and
                            embarrass us. I have read that Clint Eastwood (although he is too
                            old), and Woody Harrelson are Libertarians. Pro Wrestler Val Venis
                            (real name Sean Morey) is too, although Sean is a Canadian. Jesse
                            Ventura, even though he ran as a Reform Party candidate, espouses
                            many Libertarian beliefs. I was very happy when Jesse won the
                            governorship of Minnesota. That shows that it can be done. And
                            even if we never win the white house, if we can win enough of the
                            House and senate and state seats, we could still get a lot done and
                            send a strong message that people are tired of the police state.

                            Derek






                            --- In arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "Denise Bensusan"
                            <denise.bensusan@f...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Sandy,
                            >
                            > I agree with you on Ross Perot and I DID vote fro him!!! Wasn't
                            his family threatened the next time around or something and he
                            backed away from the race?
                            >
                            > I think Badnarik believes that the IRS violates the constitution
                            and that's what makes it illegal. I have some docs that support
                            this belief and will try to put my hands on them and forward them.
                            >
                            > I think the LP needs a different candidate (other than Badnarik)
                            in order to become pliable. Just my personal opinion.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ---- Original Message -----
                            > From: Sandra Price
                            > To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 5:26 AM
                            > Subject: RE: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New
                            Direction
                            >
                            >
                            > Derek, you are correct about the lack of interest within the LP
                            for the many
                            > issues that were part of the early days of the Libertarian
                            movement. Their
                            > candidates have no real desire to win and get the impression
                            they want the
                            > government to fail so we can start all over. I met Michael
                            Badnarik on
                            > several occasions and was not impressed with his knowledge of the
                            > Constitution. He has his own version of how it should be
                            interpreted and
                            > amended and he is simply wrong. He is also a member of a group
                            of men who
                            > believe the IRS is against the law. It is legal and has been a
                            part of the
                            > laws of America for many years under the authority of the House
                            and Senate.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > The only way to clean up the IRS is by legal legislation done
                            through the
                            > Congress and until Badnarik recognizes this fact, he will be
                            dealing with
                            > many criminals who have done time in prison and will continue to
                            be declared
                            > criminals.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > I will never support any candidate who refuses to play by the
                            accepted rules
                            > of law. I am now an Independent voter and will concentrate on
                            removing
                            > every damn congressman running in 2006. They all folded up
                            under the Bush
                            > Administration and have shown themselves incapable of
                            determining what is
                            > legal and correct. These fools want a Police State to be
                            designed and run
                            > by the White House. The Bush administration wants full control
                            over our
                            > lives and will eliminate our state rights.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > I am not a Christian and will refuse to live by the Bible over
                            the authority
                            > of our individual rights as are shown in the U.S.
                            Constitution. I do not
                            > want the Bible introduced into our schools and being an advocate
                            of
                            > Evolution, feel it should be taught as a science. The American
                            family has
                            > the choice of family size at this time and I resent having this
                            choice taken
                            > away. I am not a proponent of abortion but it must remain a
                            choice for the
                            > mother, father and clergy, not some asshole in the White House.
                            >
                            > HHHH
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > There is a lot wrong in our government but there are legal ways
                            of changing
                            > what we find offensive. The LP simply ignores what they find
                            wrong and will
                            > end up supporting chaos.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Many of us are searching for a third party candidate for all our
                            elections
                            > in 2006 and 2008 because the Republicans and Democrats have
                            fallen overboard
                            > in their leadership. We need another Ross Perot to cut through
                            the crap the
                            > current parties are selling at this time.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > I have followed the FSP since the day it was introduced and they
                            too are
                            > floundering around without a purpose. I love the concept but
                            not the way
                            > they are wandering all over the place trying to find an agenda.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Sandy Pricee has
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > _____
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • Sandra Price
                            Denise. Believe me when I tell you that the IRS is working legitimately and honestly within the Constitution. The men who are influencing Michael Badnarik
                            Message 13 of 21 , Jan 23, 2006
                              Denise. Believe me when I tell you that the IRS is working legitimately and
                              honestly within the Constitution. The men who are influencing Michael
                              Badnarik will soon see years of federal prison. I have an inside source on
                              this information and will share it with you when the last two are in prison.
                              Badnarik is very aware of his association with men who have done time for
                              extortion and he just walks away from the whole thing. If any signs up with
                              these men, you will have a potential criminal problem in the near future.
                              Why take a chance? Sign nothing on this subject!!! It is very close to
                              coming to a halt. I have warned many LP members to stop believing in the
                              tooth fairy.



                              I despise the IRS and I do not work for the federal government. I do
                              recognize that sitting around spreading rumors that some stupid gold fringe
                              on our flag indicates a problem within the courts is just plan stupid silly.
                              The IRS is legal but it doesn't mean the laws can't be changed. Simply
                              breaking the law as a disgruntled American will get you into prison. I'm
                              tired of warning you people. Change the law legally!!! We tried it in 1970
                              when we formed the Liberty Amendment petition that we hoped would gather
                              enough signatures to put the whole IRS system before the voters. One of the
                              writers of this petition was Harry Browne and the other was Oliver Ray Price
                              (my husband) and we had a dozen attorneys go over the legality of this
                              petition and it was written and rewritten a dozen times.



                              For 6 months we took this petition all over the state of California and the
                              people were disinterested in the action and thought the tax system was fine.
                              HHHH

                              You've been taken in by a convicted criminal to get you to join his
                              organization and in breaking the law. If that is what you want, go ahead
                              but if you want to stay out of the pokey you will go another direction and
                              work to change the law.



                              Sandy



                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                              [mailto:arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denise Bensusan
                              Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:09 AM
                              To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction



                              Sandy,

                              I agree with you on Ross Perot and I DID vote fro him!!! Wasn't his family
                              threatened the next time around or something and he backed away from the
                              race?

                              I think Badnarik believes that the IRS violates the constitution and that's
                              what makes it illegal. I have some docs that support this belief and will
                              try to put my hands on them and forward them.

                              I think the LP needs a different candidate (other than Badnarik) in order to
                              become pliable. Just my personal opinion.



                              ---- Original Message -----
                              From: Sandra Price
                              To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 5:26 AM
                              Subject: RE: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction


                              Derek, you are correct about the lack of interest within the LP for the
                              many
                              issues that were part of the early days of the Libertarian movement.
                              Their
                              candidates have no real desire to win and get the impression they want the
                              government to fail so we can start all over. I met Michael Badnarik on
                              several occasions and was not impressed with his knowledge of the
                              Constitution. He has his own version of how it should be interpreted and
                              amended and he is simply wrong. He is also a member of a group of men who
                              believe the IRS is against the law. It is legal and has been a part of
                              the
                              laws of America for many years under the authority of the House and
                              Senate.




                              The only way to clean up the IRS is by legal legislation done through the
                              Congress and until Badnarik recognizes this fact, he will be dealing with
                              many criminals who have done time in prison and will continue to be
                              declared
                              criminals.



                              I will never support any candidate who refuses to play by the accepted
                              rules
                              of law. I am now an Independent voter and will concentrate on removing
                              every damn congressman running in 2006. They all folded up under the Bush
                              Administration and have shown themselves incapable of determining what is
                              legal and correct. These fools want a Police State to be designed and run
                              by the White House. The Bush administration wants full control over our
                              lives and will eliminate our state rights.



                              I am not a Christian and will refuse to live by the Bible over the
                              authority
                              of our individual rights as are shown in the U.S. Constitution. I do not
                              want the Bible introduced into our schools and being an advocate of
                              Evolution, feel it should be taught as a science. The American family has
                              the choice of family size at this time and I resent having this choice
                              taken
                              away. I am not a proponent of abortion but it must remain a choice for
                              the
                              mother, father and clergy, not some asshole in the White House.

                              HHHH



                              There is a lot wrong in our government but there are legal ways of
                              changing
                              what we find offensive. The LP simply ignores what they find wrong and
                              will
                              end up supporting chaos.



                              Many of us are searching for a third party candidate for all our elections
                              in 2006 and 2008 because the Republicans and Democrats have fallen
                              overboard
                              in their leadership. We need another Ross Perot to cut through the crap
                              the
                              current parties are selling at this time.



                              I have followed the FSP since the day it was introduced and they too are
                              floundering around without a purpose. I love the concept but not the way
                              they are wandering all over the place trying to find an agenda.



                              Sandy Pricee has



                              _____



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                              Yahoo! Groups Links










                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                              _____

                              YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



                              * Visit your group "arizonaporcupines
                              <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arizonaporcupines> " on the web.


                              * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                              arizonaporcupines-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Denise Bensusan
                              Sandy said: You ve been taken in by a convicted criminal to get you to join his organization and in breaking the law. If that is what you want, go ahead but
                              Message 14 of 21 , Jan 23, 2006
                                Sandy said: "You've been taken in by a convicted criminal to get you to join his
                                organization and in breaking the law. If that is what you want, go ahead
                                but if you want to stay out of the pokey you will go another direction and
                                work to change the law."

                                Just to clarify...I have not been taken in by ANYONE! I simply stated that I have some documents and information that support the premise that the IRS is indeed in violation of the Constitution.

                                As with everything.....an individual can interpret issues in different ways. Just because someone believes that the IRS is unconstitutional does not make them a criminal and does not mean they are headed for the pokey. Free speech is still legal...well at least for today...LOL

                                Great points however...thanks for sharing them.


                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Sandra Price
                                To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:59 AM
                                Subject: RE: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction


                                Denise. Believe me when I tell you that the IRS is working legitimately and
                                honestly within the Constitution. The men who are influencing Michael
                                Badnarik will soon see years of federal prison. I have an inside source on
                                this information and will share it with you when the last two are in prison.
                                Badnarik is very aware of his association with men who have done time for
                                extortion and he just walks away from the whole thing. If any signs up with
                                these men, you will have a potential criminal problem in the near future.
                                Why take a chance? Sign nothing on this subject!!! It is very close to
                                coming to a halt. I have warned many LP members to stop believing in the
                                tooth fairy.



                                I despise the IRS and I do not work for the federal government. I do
                                recognize that sitting around spreading rumors that some stupid gold fringe
                                on our flag indicates a problem within the courts is just plan stupid silly.
                                The IRS is legal but it doesn't mean the laws can't be changed. Simply
                                breaking the law as a disgruntled American will get you into prison. I'm
                                tired of warning you people. Change the law legally!!! We tried it in 1970
                                when we formed the Liberty Amendment petition that we hoped would gather
                                enough signatures to put the whole IRS system before the voters. One of the
                                writers of this petition was Harry Browne and the other was Oliver Ray Price
                                (my husband) and we had a dozen attorneys go over the legality of this
                                petition and it was written and rewritten a dozen times.



                                For 6 months we took this petition all over the state of California and the
                                people were disinterested in the action and thought the tax system was fine.
                                HHHH

                                You've been taken in by a convicted criminal to get you to join his
                                organization and in breaking the law. If that is what you want, go ahead
                                but if you want to stay out of the pokey you will go another direction and
                                work to change the law.



                                Sandy



                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                                [mailto:arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denise Bensusan
                                Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:09 AM
                                To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction



                                Sandy,

                                I agree with you on Ross Perot and I DID vote fro him!!! Wasn't his family
                                threatened the next time around or something and he backed away from the
                                race?

                                I think Badnarik believes that the IRS violates the constitution and that's
                                what makes it illegal. I have some docs that support this belief and will
                                try to put my hands on them and forward them.

                                I think the LP needs a different candidate (other than Badnarik) in order to
                                become pliable. Just my personal opinion.



                                ---- Original Message -----
                                From: Sandra Price
                                To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 5:26 AM
                                Subject: RE: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction


                                Derek, you are correct about the lack of interest within the LP for the
                                many
                                issues that were part of the early days of the Libertarian movement.
                                Their
                                candidates have no real desire to win and get the impression they want the
                                government to fail so we can start all over. I met Michael Badnarik on
                                several occasions and was not impressed with his knowledge of the
                                Constitution. He has his own version of how it should be interpreted and
                                amended and he is simply wrong. He is also a member of a group of men who
                                believe the IRS is against the law. It is legal and has been a part of
                                the
                                laws of America for many years under the authority of the House and
                                Senate.




                                The only way to clean up the IRS is by legal legislation done through the
                                Congress and until Badnarik recognizes this fact, he will be dealing with
                                many criminals who have done time in prison and will continue to be
                                declared
                                criminals.



                                I will never support any candidate who refuses to play by the accepted
                                rules
                                of law. I am now an Independent voter and will concentrate on removing
                                every damn congressman running in 2006. They all folded up under the Bush
                                Administration and have shown themselves incapable of determining what is
                                legal and correct. These fools want a Police State to be designed and run
                                by the White House. The Bush administration wants full control over our
                                lives and will eliminate our state rights.



                                I am not a Christian and will refuse to live by the Bible over the
                                authority
                                of our individual rights as are shown in the U.S. Constitution. I do not
                                want the Bible introduced into our schools and being an advocate of
                                Evolution, feel it should be taught as a science. The American family has
                                the choice of family size at this time and I resent having this choice
                                taken
                                away. I am not a proponent of abortion but it must remain a choice for
                                the
                                mother, father and clergy, not some asshole in the White House.

                                HHHH



                                There is a lot wrong in our government but there are legal ways of
                                changing
                                what we find offensive. The LP simply ignores what they find wrong and
                                will
                                end up supporting chaos.



                                Many of us are searching for a third party candidate for all our elections
                                in 2006 and 2008 because the Republicans and Democrats have fallen
                                overboard
                                in their leadership. We need another Ross Perot to cut through the crap
                                the
                                current parties are selling at this time.



                                I have followed the FSP since the day it was introduced and they too are
                                floundering around without a purpose. I love the concept but not the way
                                they are wandering all over the place trying to find an agenda.



                                Sandy Pricee has



                                _____



                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                Yahoo! Groups Links










                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                _____

                                YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



                                * Visit your group "arizonaporcupines
                                <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arizonaporcupines> " on the web.


                                * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                arizonaporcupines-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                <mailto:arizonaporcupines-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>


                                * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



                                _____



                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                Yahoo! Groups Links








                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Sandra Price
                                I was warning you to stay away from this group who is promoting what you believe to be true. Free speech is no longer legal, not now! Believe what you want
                                Message 15 of 21 , Jan 23, 2006
                                  I was warning you to stay away from this group who is promoting what you
                                  believe to be true. Free speech is no longer legal, not now! Believe what
                                  you want but have a lawyer ready. This is a big deal and many in the LP
                                  will be implicated.



                                  Some day if we ever can locate a congress with balls, we might be able to
                                  pull off this crap about the IRS being outside the law.



                                  Sandy

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                                  [mailto:arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denise Bensusan
                                  Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 11:59 AM
                                  To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction



                                  Sandy said: "You've been taken in by a convicted criminal to get you to join
                                  his
                                  organization and in breaking the law. If that is what you want, go ahead
                                  but if you want to stay out of the pokey you will go another direction and
                                  work to change the law."

                                  Just to clarify...I have not been taken in by ANYONE! I simply stated that
                                  I have some documents and information that support the premise that the IRS
                                  is indeed in violation of the Constitution.

                                  As with everything.....an individual can interpret issues in different ways.
                                  Just because someone believes that the IRS is unconstitutional does not make
                                  them a criminal and does not mean they are headed for the pokey. Free
                                  speech is still legal...well at least for today...LOL

                                  Great points however...thanks for sharing them.


                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: Sandra Price
                                  To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:59 AM
                                  Subject: RE: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction


                                  Denise. Believe me when I tell you that the IRS is working legitimately
                                  and
                                  honestly within the Constitution. The men who are influencing Michael
                                  Badnarik will soon see years of federal prison. I have an inside source
                                  on
                                  this information and will share it with you when the last two are in
                                  prison.
                                  Badnarik is very aware of his association with men who have done time for
                                  extortion and he just walks away from the whole thing. If any signs up
                                  with
                                  these men, you will have a potential criminal problem in the near future.
                                  Why take a chance? Sign nothing on this subject!!! It is very close to
                                  coming to a halt. I have warned many LP members to stop believing in the
                                  tooth fairy.



                                  I despise the IRS and I do not work for the federal government. I do
                                  recognize that sitting around spreading rumors that some stupid gold
                                  fringe
                                  on our flag indicates a problem within the courts is just plan stupid
                                  silly.
                                  The IRS is legal but it doesn't mean the laws can't be changed. Simply
                                  breaking the law as a disgruntled American will get you into prison. I'm
                                  tired of warning you people. Change the law legally!!! We tried it in
                                  1970
                                  when we formed the Liberty Amendment petition that we hoped would gather
                                  enough signatures to put the whole IRS system before the voters. One of
                                  the
                                  writers of this petition was Harry Browne and the other was Oliver Ray
                                  Price
                                  (my husband) and we had a dozen attorneys go over the legality of this
                                  petition and it was written and rewritten a dozen times.



                                  For 6 months we took this petition all over the state of California and
                                  the
                                  people were disinterested in the action and thought the tax system was
                                  fine.
                                  HHHH

                                  You've been taken in by a convicted criminal to get you to join his
                                  organization and in breaking the law. If that is what you want, go ahead
                                  but if you want to stay out of the pokey you will go another direction and
                                  work to change the law.



                                  Sandy



                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                                  [mailto:arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denise Bensusan
                                  Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:09 AM
                                  To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction



                                  Sandy,

                                  I agree with you on Ross Perot and I DID vote fro him!!! Wasn't his
                                  family
                                  threatened the next time around or something and he backed away from the
                                  race?

                                  I think Badnarik believes that the IRS violates the constitution and
                                  that's
                                  what makes it illegal. I have some docs that support this belief and will
                                  try to put my hands on them and forward them.

                                  I think the LP needs a different candidate (other than Badnarik) in order
                                  to
                                  become pliable. Just my personal opinion.



                                  ---- Original Message -----
                                  From: Sandra Price
                                  To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 5:26 AM
                                  Subject: RE: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction


                                  Derek, you are correct about the lack of interest within the LP for the
                                  many
                                  issues that were part of the early days of the Libertarian movement.
                                  Their
                                  candidates have no real desire to win and get the impression they want
                                  the
                                  government to fail so we can start all over. I met Michael Badnarik on
                                  several occasions and was not impressed with his knowledge of the
                                  Constitution. He has his own version of how it should be interpreted
                                  and
                                  amended and he is simply wrong. He is also a member of a group of men
                                  who
                                  believe the IRS is against the law. It is legal and has been a part of
                                  the
                                  laws of America for many years under the authority of the House and
                                  Senate.




                                  The only way to clean up the IRS is by legal legislation done through
                                  the
                                  Congress and until Badnarik recognizes this fact, he will be dealing
                                  with
                                  many criminals who have done time in prison and will continue to be
                                  declared
                                  criminals.



                                  I will never support any candidate who refuses to play by the accepted
                                  rules
                                  of law. I am now an Independent voter and will concentrate on removing
                                  every damn congressman running in 2006. They all folded up under the
                                  Bush
                                  Administration and have shown themselves incapable of determining what
                                  is
                                  legal and correct. These fools want a Police State to be designed and
                                  run
                                  by the White House. The Bush administration wants full control over our
                                  lives and will eliminate our state rights.



                                  I am not a Christian and will refuse to live by the Bible over the
                                  authority
                                  of our individual rights as are shown in the U.S. Constitution. I do
                                  not
                                  want the Bible introduced into our schools and being an advocate of
                                  Evolution, feel it should be taught as a science. The American family
                                  has
                                  the choice of family size at this time and I resent having this choice
                                  taken
                                  away. I am not a proponent of abortion but it must remain a choice for
                                  the
                                  mother, father and clergy, not some asshole in the White House.

                                  HHHH



                                  There is a lot wrong in our government but there are legal ways of
                                  changing
                                  what we find offensive. The LP simply ignores what they find wrong and
                                  will
                                  end up supporting chaos.



                                  Many of us are searching for a third party candidate for all our
                                  elections
                                  in 2006 and 2008 because the Republicans and Democrats have fallen
                                  overboard
                                  in their leadership. We need another Ross Perot to cut through the crap
                                  the
                                  current parties are selling at this time.



                                  I have followed the FSP since the day it was introduced and they too are
                                  floundering around without a purpose. I love the concept but not the
                                  way
                                  they are wandering all over the place trying to find an agenda.



                                  Sandy Pricee has



                                  _____



                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                  Yahoo! Groups Links










                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                  _____

                                  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



                                  * Visit your group "arizonaporcupines
                                  <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arizonaporcupines> " on the web.


                                  * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                  <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



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                                  Yahoo! Groups Links








                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                  SPONSORED LINKS


                                  E
                                  <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=E+government&w1=E+government&w2=Governm
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                                  government

                                  Government
                                  <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Government+procurement&w1=E+government&
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                                  fJx8BIg> procurement

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                                  Government
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                                  w5=Government+lease&w6=Government+contract&c=6&s=150&.sig=TJmcpxEiYC9WXJ2wWg
                                  pJYQ> contract



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                                  * Visit your group "arizonaporcupines
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                                  * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Denise Bensusan
                                  Good points Sandy! Thanks ... From: Sandra Price To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 1:18 PM Subject: RE: [arizonaporcupines]
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Jan 23, 2006
                                    Good points Sandy!

                                    Thanks
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: Sandra Price
                                    To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 1:18 PM
                                    Subject: RE: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction


                                    I was warning you to stay away from this group who is promoting what you
                                    believe to be true. Free speech is no longer legal, not now! Believe what
                                    you want but have a lawyer ready. This is a big deal and many in the LP
                                    will be implicated.



                                    Some day if we ever can locate a congress with balls, we might be able to
                                    pull off this crap about the IRS being outside the law.



                                    Sandy

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                                    [mailto:arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denise Bensusan
                                    Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 11:59 AM
                                    To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction



                                    Sandy said: "You've been taken in by a convicted criminal to get you to join
                                    his
                                    organization and in breaking the law. If that is what you want, go ahead
                                    but if you want to stay out of the pokey you will go another direction and
                                    work to change the law."

                                    Just to clarify...I have not been taken in by ANYONE! I simply stated that
                                    I have some documents and information that support the premise that the IRS
                                    is indeed in violation of the Constitution.

                                    As with everything.....an individual can interpret issues in different ways.
                                    Just because someone believes that the IRS is unconstitutional does not make
                                    them a criminal and does not mean they are headed for the pokey. Free
                                    speech is still legal...well at least for today...LOL

                                    Great points however...thanks for sharing them.


                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: Sandra Price
                                    To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:59 AM
                                    Subject: RE: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction


                                    Denise. Believe me when I tell you that the IRS is working legitimately
                                    and
                                    honestly within the Constitution. The men who are influencing Michael
                                    Badnarik will soon see years of federal prison. I have an inside source
                                    on
                                    this information and will share it with you when the last two are in
                                    prison.
                                    Badnarik is very aware of his association with men who have done time for
                                    extortion and he just walks away from the whole thing. If any signs up
                                    with
                                    these men, you will have a potential criminal problem in the near future.
                                    Why take a chance? Sign nothing on this subject!!! It is very close to
                                    coming to a halt. I have warned many LP members to stop believing in the
                                    tooth fairy.



                                    I despise the IRS and I do not work for the federal government. I do
                                    recognize that sitting around spreading rumors that some stupid gold
                                    fringe
                                    on our flag indicates a problem within the courts is just plan stupid
                                    silly.
                                    The IRS is legal but it doesn't mean the laws can't be changed. Simply
                                    breaking the law as a disgruntled American will get you into prison. I'm
                                    tired of warning you people. Change the law legally!!! We tried it in
                                    1970
                                    when we formed the Liberty Amendment petition that we hoped would gather
                                    enough signatures to put the whole IRS system before the voters. One of
                                    the
                                    writers of this petition was Harry Browne and the other was Oliver Ray
                                    Price
                                    (my husband) and we had a dozen attorneys go over the legality of this
                                    petition and it was written and rewritten a dozen times.



                                    For 6 months we took this petition all over the state of California and
                                    the
                                    people were disinterested in the action and thought the tax system was
                                    fine.
                                    HHHH

                                    You've been taken in by a convicted criminal to get you to join his
                                    organization and in breaking the law. If that is what you want, go ahead
                                    but if you want to stay out of the pokey you will go another direction and
                                    work to change the law.



                                    Sandy



                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                                    [mailto:arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denise Bensusan
                                    Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:09 AM
                                    To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction



                                    Sandy,

                                    I agree with you on Ross Perot and I DID vote fro him!!! Wasn't his
                                    family
                                    threatened the next time around or something and he backed away from the
                                    race?

                                    I think Badnarik believes that the IRS violates the constitution and
                                    that's
                                    what makes it illegal. I have some docs that support this belief and will
                                    try to put my hands on them and forward them.

                                    I think the LP needs a different candidate (other than Badnarik) in order
                                    to
                                    become pliable. Just my personal opinion.



                                    ---- Original Message -----
                                    From: Sandra Price
                                    To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 5:26 AM
                                    Subject: RE: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction


                                    Derek, you are correct about the lack of interest within the LP for the
                                    many
                                    issues that were part of the early days of the Libertarian movement.
                                    Their
                                    candidates have no real desire to win and get the impression they want
                                    the
                                    government to fail so we can start all over. I met Michael Badnarik on
                                    several occasions and was not impressed with his knowledge of the
                                    Constitution. He has his own version of how it should be interpreted
                                    and
                                    amended and he is simply wrong. He is also a member of a group of men
                                    who
                                    believe the IRS is against the law. It is legal and has been a part of
                                    the
                                    laws of America for many years under the authority of the House and
                                    Senate.




                                    The only way to clean up the IRS is by legal legislation done through
                                    the
                                    Congress and until Badnarik recognizes this fact, he will be dealing
                                    with
                                    many criminals who have done time in prison and will continue to be
                                    declared
                                    criminals.



                                    I will never support any candidate who refuses to play by the accepted
                                    rules
                                    of law. I am now an Independent voter and will concentrate on removing
                                    every damn congressman running in 2006. They all folded up under the
                                    Bush
                                    Administration and have shown themselves incapable of determining what
                                    is
                                    legal and correct. These fools want a Police State to be designed and
                                    run
                                    by the White House. The Bush administration wants full control over our
                                    lives and will eliminate our state rights.



                                    I am not a Christian and will refuse to live by the Bible over the
                                    authority
                                    of our individual rights as are shown in the U.S. Constitution. I do
                                    not
                                    want the Bible introduced into our schools and being an advocate of
                                    Evolution, feel it should be taught as a science. The American family
                                    has
                                    the choice of family size at this time and I resent having this choice
                                    taken
                                    away. I am not a proponent of abortion but it must remain a choice for
                                    the
                                    mother, father and clergy, not some asshole in the White House.

                                    HHHH



                                    There is a lot wrong in our government but there are legal ways of
                                    changing
                                    what we find offensive. The LP simply ignores what they find wrong and
                                    will
                                    end up supporting chaos.



                                    Many of us are searching for a third party candidate for all our
                                    elections
                                    in 2006 and 2008 because the Republicans and Democrats have fallen
                                    overboard
                                    in their leadership. We need another Ross Perot to cut through the crap
                                    the
                                    current parties are selling at this time.



                                    I have followed the FSP since the day it was introduced and they too are
                                    floundering around without a purpose. I love the concept but not the
                                    way
                                    they are wandering all over the place trying to find an agenda.



                                    Sandy Pricee has



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                                  • Derek
                                    Just the belief that the IRS and the income tax is unconstitutional will NOT get you put into prison. Not paying your taxes will. Many people in this country
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Jan 23, 2006
                                      Just the belief that the IRS and the income tax is unconstitutional
                                      will NOT get you put into prison. Not paying your taxes will. Many
                                      people in this country believe that the IRS is unconstitutional and
                                      wrong, etc., but still they grudgingly pay their taxes because they
                                      know that they still have to, and they do not want to go to jail.
                                      The only ones I have seen go to jail are the ones that join these
                                      full fledged "tax protestor" groups and quit paying taxes.

                                      Big difference between believing it ain't right and not paying.

                                      Derek



                                      --- In arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "Denise Bensusan"
                                      <denise.bensusan@f...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Sandy said: "You've been taken in by a convicted criminal to get
                                      you to join his
                                      > organization and in breaking the law. If that is what you want,
                                      go ahead
                                      > but if you want to stay out of the pokey you will go another
                                      direction and
                                      > work to change the law."
                                      >
                                      > Just to clarify...I have not been taken in by ANYONE! I simply
                                      stated that I have some documents and information that support the
                                      premise that the IRS is indeed in violation of the Constitution.
                                      >
                                      > As with everything.....an individual can interpret issues in
                                      different ways. Just because someone believes that the IRS is
                                      unconstitutional does not make them a criminal and does not mean
                                      they are headed for the pokey. Free speech is still legal...well at
                                      least for today...LOL
                                      >
                                      > Great points however...thanks for sharing them.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > From: Sandra Price
                                      > To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:59 AM
                                      > Subject: RE: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New
                                      Direction
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Denise. Believe me when I tell you that the IRS is working
                                      legitimately and
                                      > honestly within the Constitution. The men who are influencing
                                      Michael
                                      > Badnarik will soon see years of federal prison. I have an
                                      inside source on
                                      > this information and will share it with you when the last two
                                      are in prison.
                                      > Badnarik is very aware of his association with men who have done
                                      time for
                                      > extortion and he just walks away from the whole thing. If any
                                      signs up with
                                      > these men, you will have a potential criminal problem in the
                                      near future.
                                      > Why take a chance? Sign nothing on this subject!!! It is very
                                      close to
                                      > coming to a halt. I have warned many LP members to stop
                                      believing in the
                                      > tooth fairy.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > I despise the IRS and I do not work for the federal government.
                                      I do
                                      > recognize that sitting around spreading rumors that some stupid
                                      gold fringe
                                      > on our flag indicates a problem within the courts is just plan
                                      stupid silly.
                                      > The IRS is legal but it doesn't mean the laws can't be changed.
                                      Simply
                                      > breaking the law as a disgruntled American will get you into
                                      prison. I'm
                                      > tired of warning you people. Change the law legally!!! We
                                      tried it in 1970
                                      > when we formed the Liberty Amendment petition that we hoped
                                      would gather
                                      > enough signatures to put the whole IRS system before the
                                      voters. One of the
                                      > writers of this petition was Harry Browne and the other was
                                      Oliver Ray Price
                                      > (my husband) and we had a dozen attorneys go over the legality
                                      of this
                                      > petition and it was written and rewritten a dozen times.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > For 6 months we took this petition all over the state of
                                      California and the
                                      > people were disinterested in the action and thought the tax
                                      system was fine.
                                      > HHHH
                                      >
                                      > You've been taken in by a convicted criminal to get you to join
                                      his
                                      > organization and in breaking the law. If that is what you want,
                                      go ahead
                                      > but if you want to stay out of the pokey you will go another
                                      direction and
                                      > work to change the law.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Sandy
                                    • Derek
                                      No, I do not. And I don t know if it would even be worth it to do it at my college. It is extremely small. I attend an acupuncture college here in AZ, and
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Jan 23, 2006
                                        No, I do not. And I don't know if it would even be worth it to do it
                                        at my college. It is extremely small. I attend an acupuncture
                                        college here in AZ, and there are only about a dozen students in each
                                        of the 3 classes, so we only have around 36 students. Assuming that
                                        only 1/4 or so of them would be interested in becoming Libertarians,
                                        or already are Libertarians, I don't know if it is worth starting. It
                                        is such a small, specialty school, and it is an accelerated program,
                                        we barely have time for anything but studies.

                                        I know I don't have time to run a club. However, of the 3 guys in my
                                        class, ALL 3 of us do have Libertarian beliefs. We may all even be
                                        registered as Libertarians. I am a registered Lib but I am not sure
                                        about the other 2 guys.

                                        I used to attend a much larger community college, which probably would
                                        have been a better place to start a Libertarian organization. I
                                        thought about doing it then, but I was taking so many classes so I
                                        could get into Acupuncture school that I didn't have time to do it
                                        then either.

                                        But I agree, the colleges are great places to recruit. Young minds
                                        are still usually open, and at a young age, many people have an anti-
                                        establishment mindset, whereas when people get older, they tend to
                                        lean much more toward the establishment and status quo.

                                        If I had to guess what the political leanings of most of my classmates
                                        were, I would say most either probably don't care or are probably
                                        liberals or independents. Other than me and one other guy, I don't
                                        think any of my other classmates are politically active at all.

                                        How hard is it to start a Libertarian college organization? What do
                                        you have to do? I know 3 of us are Libertarians. Is that enough to
                                        make it worth it?

                                        Derek



                                        --- In arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "Denise Bensusan"
                                        <denise.bensusan@f...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Derek,
                                        >
                                        > Do you have an organized activist group at your college???
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Denise
                                      • Sandra Price
                                        You are quite right. I do not recommend even signing up with these groups if you ever want or need a government clearance. Sandy ... From:
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Jan 24, 2006
                                          You are quite right. I do not recommend even signing up with these groups
                                          if you ever want or need a government clearance.



                                          Sandy



                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                                          [mailto:arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Derek
                                          Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 5:43 PM
                                          To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction



                                          Just the belief that the IRS and the income tax is unconstitutional
                                          will NOT get you put into prison. Not paying your taxes will. Many
                                          people in this country believe that the IRS is unconstitutional and
                                          wrong, etc., but still they grudgingly pay their taxes because they
                                          know that they still have to, and they do not want to go to jail.
                                          The only ones I have seen go to jail are the ones that join these
                                          full fledged "tax protestor" groups and quit paying taxes.

                                          Big difference between believing it ain't right and not paying.

                                          Derek



                                          --- In arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "Denise Bensusan"
                                          <denise.bensusan@f...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Sandy said: "You've been taken in by a convicted criminal to get
                                          you to join his
                                          > organization and in breaking the law. If that is what you want,
                                          go ahead
                                          > but if you want to stay out of the pokey you will go another
                                          direction and
                                          > work to change the law."
                                          >
                                          > Just to clarify...I have not been taken in by ANYONE! I simply
                                          stated that I have some documents and information that support the
                                          premise that the IRS is indeed in violation of the Constitution.
                                          >
                                          > As with everything.....an individual can interpret issues in
                                          different ways. Just because someone believes that the IRS is
                                          unconstitutional does not make them a criminal and does not mean
                                          they are headed for the pokey. Free speech is still legal...well at
                                          least for today...LOL
                                          >
                                          > Great points however...thanks for sharing them.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > From: Sandra Price
                                          > To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:59 AM
                                          > Subject: RE: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New
                                          Direction
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Denise. Believe me when I tell you that the IRS is working
                                          legitimately and
                                          > honestly within the Constitution. The men who are influencing
                                          Michael
                                          > Badnarik will soon see years of federal prison. I have an
                                          inside source on
                                          > this information and will share it with you when the last two
                                          are in prison.
                                          > Badnarik is very aware of his association with men who have done
                                          time for
                                          > extortion and he just walks away from the whole thing. If any
                                          signs up with
                                          > these men, you will have a potential criminal problem in the
                                          near future.
                                          > Why take a chance? Sign nothing on this subject!!! It is very
                                          close to
                                          > coming to a halt. I have warned many LP members to stop
                                          believing in the
                                          > tooth fairy.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > I despise the IRS and I do not work for the federal government.
                                          I do
                                          > recognize that sitting around spreading rumors that some stupid
                                          gold fringe
                                          > on our flag indicates a problem within the courts is just plan
                                          stupid silly.
                                          > The IRS is legal but it doesn't mean the laws can't be changed.
                                          Simply
                                          > breaking the law as a disgruntled American will get you into
                                          prison. I'm
                                          > tired of warning you people. Change the law legally!!! We
                                          tried it in 1970
                                          > when we formed the Liberty Amendment petition that we hoped
                                          would gather
                                          > enough signatures to put the whole IRS system before the
                                          voters. One of the
                                          > writers of this petition was Harry Browne and the other was
                                          Oliver Ray Price
                                          > (my husband) and we had a dozen attorneys go over the legality
                                          of this
                                          > petition and it was written and rewritten a dozen times.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > For 6 months we took this petition all over the state of
                                          California and the
                                          > people were disinterested in the action and thought the tax
                                          system was fine.
                                          > HHHH
                                          >
                                          > You've been taken in by a convicted criminal to get you to join
                                          his
                                          > organization and in breaking the law. If that is what you want,
                                          go ahead
                                          > but if you want to stay out of the pokey you will go another
                                          direction and
                                          > work to change the law.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Sandy







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                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Denise Bensusan
                                          Sandy, Have you been to the FSP site? http://www.freestateproject.org/ It appears to me that the FSP is oriented toward Libertarianism and does support
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Jan 24, 2006
                                            Sandy,

                                            Have you been to the FSP site?

                                            http://www.freestateproject.org/

                                            It appears to me that the FSP is oriented toward Libertarianism and does support Libertarian candidates. This group is an FSP group....so I am wondering about your position concerning Libertarianism???

                                            Mo offense intended of course....

                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: Sandra Price
                                            To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 5:03 AM
                                            Subject: RE: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction


                                            You are quite right. I do not recommend even signing up with these groups
                                            if you ever want or need a government clearance.



                                            Sandy



                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                                            [mailto:arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Derek
                                            Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 5:43 PM
                                            To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction



                                            Just the belief that the IRS and the income tax is unconstitutional
                                            will NOT get you put into prison. Not paying your taxes will. Many
                                            people in this country believe that the IRS is unconstitutional and
                                            wrong, etc., but still they grudgingly pay their taxes because they
                                            know that they still have to, and they do not want to go to jail.
                                            The only ones I have seen go to jail are the ones that join these
                                            full fledged "tax protestor" groups and quit paying taxes.

                                            Big difference between believing it ain't right and not paying.

                                            Derek



                                            --- In arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "Denise Bensusan"
                                            <denise.bensusan@f...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Sandy said: "You've been taken in by a convicted criminal to get
                                            you to join his
                                            > organization and in breaking the law. If that is what you want,
                                            go ahead
                                            > but if you want to stay out of the pokey you will go another
                                            direction and
                                            > work to change the law."
                                            >
                                            > Just to clarify...I have not been taken in by ANYONE! I simply
                                            stated that I have some documents and information that support the
                                            premise that the IRS is indeed in violation of the Constitution.
                                            >
                                            > As with everything.....an individual can interpret issues in
                                            different ways. Just because someone believes that the IRS is
                                            unconstitutional does not make them a criminal and does not mean
                                            they are headed for the pokey. Free speech is still legal...well at
                                            least for today...LOL
                                            >
                                            > Great points however...thanks for sharing them.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > From: Sandra Price
                                            > To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:59 AM
                                            > Subject: RE: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New
                                            Direction
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Denise. Believe me when I tell you that the IRS is working
                                            legitimately and
                                            > honestly within the Constitution. The men who are influencing
                                            Michael
                                            > Badnarik will soon see years of federal prison. I have an
                                            inside source on
                                            > this information and will share it with you when the last two
                                            are in prison.
                                            > Badnarik is very aware of his association with men who have done
                                            time for
                                            > extortion and he just walks away from the whole thing. If any
                                            signs up with
                                            > these men, you will have a potential criminal problem in the
                                            near future.
                                            > Why take a chance? Sign nothing on this subject!!! It is very
                                            close to
                                            > coming to a halt. I have warned many LP members to stop
                                            believing in the
                                            > tooth fairy.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > I despise the IRS and I do not work for the federal government.
                                            I do
                                            > recognize that sitting around spreading rumors that some stupid
                                            gold fringe
                                            > on our flag indicates a problem within the courts is just plan
                                            stupid silly.
                                            > The IRS is legal but it doesn't mean the laws can't be changed.
                                            Simply
                                            > breaking the law as a disgruntled American will get you into
                                            prison. I'm
                                            > tired of warning you people. Change the law legally!!! We
                                            tried it in 1970
                                            > when we formed the Liberty Amendment petition that we hoped
                                            would gather
                                            > enough signatures to put the whole IRS system before the
                                            voters. One of the
                                            > writers of this petition was Harry Browne and the other was
                                            Oliver Ray Price
                                            > (my husband) and we had a dozen attorneys go over the legality
                                            of this
                                            > petition and it was written and rewritten a dozen times.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > For 6 months we took this petition all over the state of
                                            California and the
                                            > people were disinterested in the action and thought the tax
                                            system was fine.
                                            > HHHH
                                            >
                                            > You've been taken in by a convicted criminal to get you to join
                                            his
                                            > organization and in breaking the law. If that is what you want,
                                            go ahead
                                            > but if you want to stay out of the pokey you will go another
                                            direction and
                                            > work to change the law.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Sandy







                                            _____

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                                            <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arizonaporcupines> " on the web.


                                            * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Sandra Price
                                            Not for a couple of years. What I got involved in was the LP Phoenix group, I was told there are two LP groups in Arizona and I was not impressed with the one
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Jan 24, 2006
                                              Not for a couple of years. What I got involved in was the LP Phoenix group,
                                              I was told there are two LP groups in Arizona and I was not impressed with
                                              the one that ran the Arizona primary where Badnarik too the leadership. I
                                              am interested in getting my freedoms back and would rather not trade them
                                              for anything. If every member of the LP had voted for their candidates,
                                              there would have been a greater turnout in 2004. They are not serious! So
                                              I will go with the Independents. I have a doctor's appointment and will
                                              check the FSP later on.



                                              Sandy



                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                                              [mailto:arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denise Bensusan
                                              Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 6:22 AM
                                              To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction



                                              Sandy,

                                              Have you been to the FSP site?

                                              http://www.freestateproject.org/

                                              It appears to me that the FSP is oriented toward Libertarianism and does
                                              support Libertarian candidates. This group is an FSP group....so I am
                                              wondering about your position concerning Libertarianism???

                                              Mo offense intended of course....

                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: Sandra Price
                                              To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 5:03 AM
                                              Subject: RE: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction


                                              You are quite right. I do not recommend even signing up with these groups
                                              if you ever want or need a government clearance.



                                              Sandy



                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                                              [mailto:arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Derek
                                              Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 5:43 PM
                                              To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New Direction



                                              Just the belief that the IRS and the income tax is unconstitutional
                                              will NOT get you put into prison. Not paying your taxes will. Many
                                              people in this country believe that the IRS is unconstitutional and
                                              wrong, etc., but still they grudgingly pay their taxes because they
                                              know that they still have to, and they do not want to go to jail.
                                              The only ones I have seen go to jail are the ones that join these
                                              full fledged "tax protestor" groups and quit paying taxes.

                                              Big difference between believing it ain't right and not paying.

                                              Derek



                                              --- In arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "Denise Bensusan"
                                              <denise.bensusan@f...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Sandy said: "You've been taken in by a convicted criminal to get
                                              you to join his
                                              > organization and in breaking the law. If that is what you want,
                                              go ahead
                                              > but if you want to stay out of the pokey you will go another
                                              direction and
                                              > work to change the law."
                                              >
                                              > Just to clarify...I have not been taken in by ANYONE! I simply
                                              stated that I have some documents and information that support the
                                              premise that the IRS is indeed in violation of the Constitution.
                                              >
                                              > As with everything.....an individual can interpret issues in
                                              different ways. Just because someone believes that the IRS is
                                              unconstitutional does not make them a criminal and does not mean
                                              they are headed for the pokey. Free speech is still legal...well at
                                              least for today...LOL
                                              >
                                              > Great points however...thanks for sharing them.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > From: Sandra Price
                                              > To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:59 AM
                                              > Subject: RE: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Searching for a New
                                              Direction
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Denise. Believe me when I tell you that the IRS is working
                                              legitimately and
                                              > honestly within the Constitution. The men who are influencing
                                              Michael
                                              > Badnarik will soon see years of federal prison. I have an
                                              inside source on
                                              > this information and will share it with you when the last two
                                              are in prison.
                                              > Badnarik is very aware of his association with men who have done
                                              time for
                                              > extortion and he just walks away from the whole thing. If any
                                              signs up with
                                              > these men, you will have a potential criminal problem in the
                                              near future.
                                              > Why take a chance? Sign nothing on this subject!!! It is very
                                              close to
                                              > coming to a halt. I have warned many LP members to stop
                                              believing in the
                                              > tooth fairy.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > I despise the IRS and I do not work for the federal government.
                                              I do
                                              > recognize that sitting around spreading rumors that some stupid
                                              gold fringe
                                              > on our flag indicates a problem within the courts is just plan
                                              stupid silly.
                                              > The IRS is legal but it doesn't mean the laws can't be changed.
                                              Simply
                                              > breaking the law as a disgruntled American will get you into
                                              prison. I'm
                                              > tired of warning you people. Change the law legally!!! We
                                              tried it in 1970
                                              > when we formed the Liberty Amendment petition that we hoped
                                              would gather
                                              > enough signatures to put the whole IRS system before the
                                              voters. One of the
                                              > writers of this petition was Harry Browne and the other was
                                              Oliver Ray Price
                                              > (my husband) and we had a dozen attorneys go over the legality
                                              of this
                                              > petition and it was written and rewritten a dozen times.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > For 6 months we took this petition all over the state of
                                              California and the
                                              > people were disinterested in the action and thought the tax
                                              system was fine.
                                              > HHHH
                                              >
                                              > You've been taken in by a convicted criminal to get you to join
                                              his
                                              > organization and in breaking the law. If that is what you want,
                                              go ahead
                                              > but if you want to stay out of the pokey you will go another
                                              direction and
                                              > work to change the law.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Sandy







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