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Re: Constitution's limits

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  • olehenry1
    ... items of the constitution the constitution must be vied as a whole. viewed as whole it is clear that the current welfare police state is an abomination
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 25, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      --- In arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "christian peper"
      <cbp429@h...> wrote:
      > for fun I decided to respond: while it is fun to examine small
      items >of the constitution the constitution must be vied as a whole.
      viewed >as whole it is clear that the current welfare police state is
      an >abomination (both to the founders and god).

      Hi Christian (meaning Christ follower, correct?)

      Here is Section 8 in its entirety:

      "Section 8 - Powers of Congress

      The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties,
      Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common
      Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties,
      Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
      To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
      To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several
      States, and with the Indian Tribes;
      To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on
      the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
      To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and
      fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
      To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and
      current Coin of the United States;
      To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;
      To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for
      limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their
      respective Writings and Discoveries;
      To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
      To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high
      Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;
      To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules
      concerning Captures on Land and Water;
      To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that
      Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
      To provide and maintain a Navy;
      To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval
      Forces;
      To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the
      Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
      To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and
      for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of
      the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the
      Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the
      Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
      To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such
      District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of
      particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of
      the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority
      over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the
      State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts,
      Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And
      To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying
      into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by
      this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any
      Department or Officer thereof."
      ******

      The so-called "public" has a lot of duties according to this
      document. Very (un)clearly for example, it states that the federal
      government can regulate commerce between the states. I can point out
      a number of abominable Uniformity Acts and numerous commerce laws
      which naturally DID occur with reference to the Constitution.

      What about the two ideas of providing for general welfare and common
      defense? These are not insignificant statements and are not at all
      out of context.

      Why does the Constitution give the so-called "the people" imagined
      authority over a "POST OFFICE AND POST ROADS"? Why do you support
      this tax-dollar enhanced monopoly?

      To promote the progress of sciences and arts...takes money. Where do
      you suppose "the people" are going to get the money? What do you
      suppose it takes in order for "the people" to feel justified in
      confiscating your money? It takes 51%; they add in big guns for
      effect.

      The Constitution is poorly written. The Constitution is prepared and
      ready for interpretation. Once an interpretation is agreed on by 51%
      of voters, VIOLA! you have a new law forced on 100% of voters and
      100% of nonvoters. A new law funded by 100% of voters and nonvoters.

      Attempting to RE-interpret the founding documents is going to get us
      nowhere again and again. Maybe a fun game to play for some,
      frustratingly retarded to me.

      Please offer arguments (using the Constitution or other "legal" docs)
      supporting use of such documents for developing a place in which
      you'd like to live.

      >there will come a time when support of the system will be a clear
      >sin. till that time I >will grudgely pay taxes. christian peper

      Define sin.
      Define system. Every system?
      What will make it clear for you?
      Until this time of clarity, I assume paying taxes would not be
      negative to you.

      Everyone of these words typed above was accomplished while in a
      smiley, joyous disposition. Want you to know that I have nothing but
      warm regard for you. Therefore, this writing is intended to
      encourage a pleasureable investigation into our minds.

      Jack
    • christian peper
      My name is Christian, and yes, I am a follower of Christ. christianity has been stolen by the elite, true Christianity is very very socially (but not
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 25, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        My name is Christian, and yes, I am a follower of Christ. christianity has been stolen by the elite, true Christianity is very very socially (but not fiscally) liberal. jeasus would support legal drugs, gay marriage etc. as for the Constitution, yes, it was a bit vague and subject to interpretation like the bible but the overall thrust of it is without a drought very liberal. the the bible is also very freeing and libertarian: living under the law of love and not the written law (see the sermon on the mount). do you know that Jesus baptized with hemp oil? best wishes, chistian
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: olehenry1
        To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 1:46 PM
        Subject: [arizonaporcupines] Re: Constitution's limits


        --- In arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com, "christian peper"
        <cbp429@h...> wrote:
        > for fun I decided to respond: while it is fun to examine small
        items >of the constitution the constitution must be vied as a whole.
        viewed >as whole it is clear that the current welfare police state is
        an >abomination (both to the founders and god).

        Hi Christian (meaning Christ follower, correct?)

        Here is Section 8 in its entirety:

        "Section 8 - Powers of Congress

        The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties,
        Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common
        Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties,
        Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
        To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
        To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several
        States, and with the Indian Tribes;
        To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on
        the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
        To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and
        fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
        To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and
        current Coin of the United States;
        To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;
        To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for
        limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their
        respective Writings and Discoveries;
        To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
        To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high
        Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;
        To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules
        concerning Captures on Land and Water;
        To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that
        Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
        To provide and maintain a Navy;
        To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval
        Forces;
        To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the
        Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
        To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and
        for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of
        the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the
        Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the
        Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
        To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such
        District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of
        particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of
        the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority
        over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the
        State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts,
        Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And
        To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying
        into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by
        this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any
        Department or Officer thereof."
        ******

        The so-called "public" has a lot of duties according to this
        document. Very (un)clearly for example, it states that the federal
        government can regulate commerce between the states. I can point out
        a number of abominable Uniformity Acts and numerous commerce laws
        which naturally DID occur with reference to the Constitution.

        What about the two ideas of providing for general welfare and common
        defense? These are not insignificant statements and are not at all
        out of context.

        Why does the Constitution give the so-called "the people" imagined
        authority over a "POST OFFICE AND POST ROADS"? Why do you support
        this tax-dollar enhanced monopoly?

        To promote the progress of sciences and arts...takes money. Where do
        you suppose "the people" are going to get the money? What do you
        suppose it takes in order for "the people" to feel justified in
        confiscating your money? It takes 51%; they add in big guns for
        effect.

        The Constitution is poorly written. The Constitution is prepared and
        ready for interpretation. Once an interpretation is agreed on by 51%
        of voters, VIOLA! you have a new law forced on 100% of voters and
        100% of nonvoters. A new law funded by 100% of voters and nonvoters.

        Attempting to RE-interpret the founding documents is going to get us
        nowhere again and again. Maybe a fun game to play for some,
        frustratingly retarded to me.

        Please offer arguments (using the Constitution or other "legal" docs)
        supporting use of such documents for developing a place in which
        you'd like to live.

        >there will come a time when support of the system will be a clear
        >sin. till that time I >will grudgely pay taxes. christian peper

        Define sin.
        Define system. Every system?
        What will make it clear for you?
        Until this time of clarity, I assume paying taxes would not be
        negative to you.

        Everyone of these words typed above was accomplished while in a
        smiley, joyous disposition. Want you to know that I have nothing but
        warm regard for you. Therefore, this writing is intended to
        encourage a pleasureable investigation into our minds.

        Jack




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