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Re: [arizonaporcupines] to be, or not to be

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  • mslagea@aol.com
    I might regret this later, but I am still going to ask. Rick, What happened in the last five days that led you to quit the FSP? ~~Lagea [Non-text portions of
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 30 11:59 PM
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      I might regret this later, but I am still going to ask.
      Rick,
      What happened in the last five days that led you to quit the FSP?

      ~~Lagea


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Rick LaPoint
      Actually, I quit the fsp shortly before the vote. (I have the e-mail to JPS somewhere, but don t make me drag that up). Since I was a pro-NH activist as well
      Message 2 of 9 , May 1, 2004
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        Actually, I 'quit' the fsp shortly before the vote. (I have the e-mail
        to JPS somewhere, but don't make me drag that up).

        Since I was a pro-NH activist as well as a former NH resident, I didn't
        want my vote to 'taint' the total... plus I was growing tired of their
        downward spiral into groupthink.

        Which continues...

        In the last five days I've re-inventoried my Yahoo lists and decided to
        cull the non-performers.

        'tis all.

        rick



        -----Original Message-----
        From: mslagea@... [mailto:mslagea@...]
        Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 11:59 PM
        To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [arizonaporcupines] to be, or not to be

        I might regret this later, but I am still going to ask.
        Rick,
        What happened in the last five days that led you to quit the FSP?

        ~~Lagea


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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      • mslagea@aol.com
        Thanks for humoring my curiosity :) ~~Lagea [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 9 , May 1, 2004
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          Thanks for humoring my curiosity :)


          ~~Lagea


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Rick LaPoint
          NP ... From: mslagea@aol.com [mailto:mslagea@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 12:15 AM To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re:
          Message 4 of 9 , May 1, 2004
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            NP

            -----Original Message-----
            From: mslagea@... [mailto:mslagea@...]
            Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 12:15 AM
            To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [arizonaporcupines] to be, or not to be

            Thanks for humoring my curiosity :)


            ~~Lagea


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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          • Kitty Antonik Wakfer
            ... My husband Paul and I removed ourselves from the FSP roles months before the vote also but made it very public why were doing so.
            Message 5 of 9 , May 1, 2004
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              >
              > Message: 5
              > Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 00:10:13 -0700
              > From: "Rick LaPoint" <rick@...>
              > Subject: RE: to be, or not to be
              >
              > Actually, I 'quit' the fsp shortly before the vote. (I have the e-mail
              > to JPS somewhere, but don't make me drag that up).
              >
              > Since I was a pro-NH activist as well as a former NH resident, I didn't
              > want my vote to 'taint' the total... plus I was growing tired of their
              > downward spiral into groupthink.
              >
              > Which continues...

              My husband Paul and I removed ourselves from the FSP roles months before "the vote"
              also but made it very public why were doing so. <http://morelife.org/ssip/dialogues/>
              We both think that one should not keep quiet about decisions made on any subject,
              especially when they are ones that others may be wrestling with - or at least mulling
              over - themselves. (The exception being information that government agents can use
              against a person.) Keeping silent only makes sense (in a distorted manner) when the
              decision was not well thought out and for which one does not really have a logical
              reason that is in their own best interest. Passing judgment on organizations (which
              are of course comprised of individuals since only they can think and act), as well as
              individuals, is absolutely necessary for each person to do. Abdicating such real
              responsibility is foolish and dangerous in the long-run, even if it appears to be
              "neighborly" in the short-term.

              Discussion on the reasoning employed can be extremely beneficial to others as well as
              oneself to ensure that the evaluations already made were correct - or to determine
              where errors might have been made - and to reduce the likelihood of future errors. In
              that vein Rick, I think it would be very worthwhile to air your reasons and the
              principles underlying them. I had hoped to have such a dialogue with Matt Cheselka in
              the fourcornersporcupines Yahoo group about Paul's and my disagreements with FSP, but
              his one response (part of the dialogues at the above link) is all that he ever made
              to that group on the subject. It does no one good in the long-run to keep
              close-mouthed, adhering to the nonsensical platitude "If you can't say anything nice,
              don't say anything at all".

              I also don't understand why you include a conclusion that if you had remained a
              member that, as a "pro-NH activist", you wouldn't vote so as not "to 'taint' the
              total". That would lead to the reasoning that no one who had a strong preference to
              any particular state - and was trying to persuade others to the same conclusion -
              should take part in "the vote". Are you saying that one who tries to persuade others
              should not vote on a voting matter? Further explanation here would also help others
              to understand.

              I know that what I am requesting/suggesting - making known your chain of reasoning on
              the matter of continuation with FSP - is something that many might consider
              "personal" and therefore not subject for public scrutiny. I think that publicizing -
              at least publicly making a stand on issues including one's own decisions - is
              something each of us *should* do. It is part of being responsible for one's actions,
              good and bad.


              >
              > In the last five days I've re-inventoried my Yahoo lists and decided to
              > cull the non-performers.
              >
              > 'tis all.
              >
              > rick
              >

              As a USer (and married to a Canadian) with legal residence in AZ but always looking
              for a more liberty-minded location on this earth to live while retaining the
              technological advances available in North America, I have been interested in NH for
              quite some time - even before FSP. Paul and I are still very much interested in the
              locations within the "city corridor" (Nashua to Concord) and would like to hear more
              discussion about that area for potential relocation. (Taxes, ordinances, prices,
              etc.) Maybe you can suggest another group - made up of more individual thinking
              rather than groupthink persons and ones not seeking a survivalist environment.

              **Kitty Antonik Wakfer
              MoreLife for the rational - http://morelife.org
              Reality based tools for more life in quantity and quality
              Self-Sovereign Individual Project - http://selfsip.org
              Rational freedom by self-sovereignty & social contracting
            • Rick LaPoint
              With all due respect, I don t really care to delve into my reasoning for opting out of the FSP as an organization. As an idea I think it s great, but let s
              Message 6 of 9 , May 2, 2004
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                With all due respect, I don't really care to delve into my reasoning for
                opting out of the FSP as an organization. As an 'idea' I think it's
                great, but let's just say you won't find me haunting its
                central-planning storefront 'office' in downtown Manchester or Concord
                looking for my next 'freedom' assignment. ;)

                As far as not voting, I had planned on moving back to NH eventually no
                matter how the vote turned out, so returning my own ballot seemed
                unfair.

                I don't see any reason why people just can't move to NH and be *insert
                philosophy here* without the cat-herders attempting to gather them up
                and pigeon-hole them. That's just the way I prefer to do it, and unless
                they start setting-up checkpoints to verify everyone's porcu-card upon
                entry to the state, I'm guessing I've got a pretty darn good shot at
                success.

                Don't make me think about it too much Kitty, as knowing who some of my
                prospective neighbors are might force me to change my mind upon deeper
                reflection. :D

                I'm more than happy to keep this list open, so long as there is a market
                for it.

                rick


                -----Original Message-----
                From: Kitty Antonik Wakfer [mailto:kitty@...]
                Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 10:14 PM
                To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com; "Rick LaPoint"
                Subject: RE: [arizonaporcupines] RE: to be, or not to be

                >
                > Message: 5
                > Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 00:10:13 -0700
                > From: "Rick LaPoint" <rick@...>
                > Subject: RE: to be, or not to be
                >
                > Actually, I 'quit' the fsp shortly before the vote. (I have the e-mail
                > to JPS somewhere, but don't make me drag that up).
                >
                > Since I was a pro-NH activist as well as a former NH resident, I
                didn't
                > want my vote to 'taint' the total... plus I was growing tired of their
                > downward spiral into groupthink.
                >
                > Which continues...

                My husband Paul and I removed ourselves from the FSP roles months before
                "the vote"
                also but made it very public why were doing so.
                <http://morelife.org/ssip/dialogues/>
                We both think that one should not keep quiet about decisions made on any
                subject,
                especially when they are ones that others may be wrestling with - or at
                least mulling
                over - themselves. (The exception being information that government
                agents can use
                against a person.) Keeping silent only makes sense (in a distorted
                manner) when the
                decision was not well thought out and for which one does not really have
                a logical
                reason that is in their own best interest. Passing judgment on
                organizations (which
                are of course comprised of individuals since only they can think and
                act), as well as
                individuals, is absolutely necessary for each person to do. Abdicating
                such real
                responsibility is foolish and dangerous in the long-run, even if it
                appears to be
                "neighborly" in the short-term.

                Discussion on the reasoning employed can be extremely beneficial to
                others as well as
                oneself to ensure that the evaluations already made were correct - or to
                determine
                where errors might have been made - and to reduce the likelihood of
                future errors. In
                that vein Rick, I think it would be very worthwhile to air your reasons
                and the
                principles underlying them. I had hoped to have such a dialogue with
                Matt Cheselka in
                the fourcornersporcupines Yahoo group about Paul's and my disagreements
                with FSP, but
                his one response (part of the dialogues at the above link) is all that
                he ever made
                to that group on the subject. It does no one good in the long-run to
                keep
                close-mouthed, adhering to the nonsensical platitude "If you can't say
                anything nice,
                don't say anything at all".

                I also don't understand why you include a conclusion that if you had
                remained a
                member that, as a "pro-NH activist", you wouldn't vote so as not "to
                'taint' the
                total". That would lead to the reasoning that no one who had a strong
                preference to
                any particular state - and was trying to persuade others to the same
                conclusion -
                should take part in "the vote". Are you saying that one who tries to
                persuade others
                should not vote on a voting matter? Further explanation here would also
                help others
                to understand.

                I know that what I am requesting/suggesting - making known your chain of
                reasoning on
                the matter of continuation with FSP - is something that many might
                consider
                "personal" and therefore not subject for public scrutiny. I think that
                publicizing -
                at least publicly making a stand on issues including one's own decisions
                - is
                something each of us *should* do. It is part of being responsible for
                one's actions,
                good and bad.


                >
                > In the last five days I've re-inventoried my Yahoo lists and decided
                to
                > cull the non-performers.
                >
                > 'tis all.
                >
                > rick
                >

                As a USer (and married to a Canadian) with legal residence in AZ but
                always looking
                for a more liberty-minded location on this earth to live while retaining
                the
                technological advances available in North America, I have been
                interested in NH for
                quite some time - even before FSP. Paul and I are still very much
                interested in the
                locations within the "city corridor" (Nashua to Concord) and would like
                to hear more
                discussion about that area for potential relocation. (Taxes, ordinances,
                prices,
                etc.) Maybe you can suggest another group - made up of more individual
                thinking
                rather than groupthink persons and ones not seeking a survivalist
                environment.

                **Kitty Antonik Wakfer
                MoreLife for the rational - http://morelife.org
                Reality based tools for more life in quantity and quality
                Self-Sovereign Individual Project - http://selfsip.org
                Rational freedom by self-sovereignty & social contracting









                Yahoo! Groups Links
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