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RE: [arizonaporcupines] to be, or not to be

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  • Rick LaPoint
    I don t... *poof* rick ... From: mslagea@aol.com [mailto:mslagea@aol.com] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 11:43 PM To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com Subject:
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 30, 2004
      I don't...

      *poof*

      rick

      -----Original Message-----
      From: mslagea@... [mailto:mslagea@...]
      Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 11:43 PM
      To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [arizonaporcupines] to be, or not to be

      In a message dated 4/30/2004 9:31:04 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
      rick@... writes:
      As this list is no longer sanctioned by the FSP, I'm recommending
      killing it.

      Unless someone else on this list feels differently and wants to run with
      it.

      I'm still moving to NH, but I'm no longer associating myself with the
      FSP in any form.

      Call me a 'glass-eater', but I don't need 'em.

      rick
      If you're not associating with FSP, why do you care if they sanction a
      group
      or not?


      ~~Lagea


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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    • mslagea@aol.com
      I might regret this later, but I am still going to ask. Rick, What happened in the last five days that led you to quit the FSP? ~~Lagea [Non-text portions of
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 30, 2004
        I might regret this later, but I am still going to ask.
        Rick,
        What happened in the last five days that led you to quit the FSP?

        ~~Lagea


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Rick LaPoint
        Actually, I quit the fsp shortly before the vote. (I have the e-mail to JPS somewhere, but don t make me drag that up). Since I was a pro-NH activist as well
        Message 3 of 9 , May 1, 2004
          Actually, I 'quit' the fsp shortly before the vote. (I have the e-mail
          to JPS somewhere, but don't make me drag that up).

          Since I was a pro-NH activist as well as a former NH resident, I didn't
          want my vote to 'taint' the total... plus I was growing tired of their
          downward spiral into groupthink.

          Which continues...

          In the last five days I've re-inventoried my Yahoo lists and decided to
          cull the non-performers.

          'tis all.

          rick



          -----Original Message-----
          From: mslagea@... [mailto:mslagea@...]
          Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 11:59 PM
          To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [arizonaporcupines] to be, or not to be

          I might regret this later, but I am still going to ask.
          Rick,
          What happened in the last five days that led you to quit the FSP?

          ~~Lagea


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • mslagea@aol.com
          Thanks for humoring my curiosity :) ~~Lagea [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          Message 4 of 9 , May 1, 2004
            Thanks for humoring my curiosity :)


            ~~Lagea


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Rick LaPoint
            NP ... From: mslagea@aol.com [mailto:mslagea@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 12:15 AM To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re:
            Message 5 of 9 , May 1, 2004
              NP

              -----Original Message-----
              From: mslagea@... [mailto:mslagea@...]
              Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 12:15 AM
              To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [arizonaporcupines] to be, or not to be

              Thanks for humoring my curiosity :)


              ~~Lagea


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




              Yahoo! Groups Links
            • Kitty Antonik Wakfer
              ... My husband Paul and I removed ourselves from the FSP roles months before the vote also but made it very public why were doing so.
              Message 6 of 9 , May 1, 2004
                >
                > Message: 5
                > Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 00:10:13 -0700
                > From: "Rick LaPoint" <rick@...>
                > Subject: RE: to be, or not to be
                >
                > Actually, I 'quit' the fsp shortly before the vote. (I have the e-mail
                > to JPS somewhere, but don't make me drag that up).
                >
                > Since I was a pro-NH activist as well as a former NH resident, I didn't
                > want my vote to 'taint' the total... plus I was growing tired of their
                > downward spiral into groupthink.
                >
                > Which continues...

                My husband Paul and I removed ourselves from the FSP roles months before "the vote"
                also but made it very public why were doing so. <http://morelife.org/ssip/dialogues/>
                We both think that one should not keep quiet about decisions made on any subject,
                especially when they are ones that others may be wrestling with - or at least mulling
                over - themselves. (The exception being information that government agents can use
                against a person.) Keeping silent only makes sense (in a distorted manner) when the
                decision was not well thought out and for which one does not really have a logical
                reason that is in their own best interest. Passing judgment on organizations (which
                are of course comprised of individuals since only they can think and act), as well as
                individuals, is absolutely necessary for each person to do. Abdicating such real
                responsibility is foolish and dangerous in the long-run, even if it appears to be
                "neighborly" in the short-term.

                Discussion on the reasoning employed can be extremely beneficial to others as well as
                oneself to ensure that the evaluations already made were correct - or to determine
                where errors might have been made - and to reduce the likelihood of future errors. In
                that vein Rick, I think it would be very worthwhile to air your reasons and the
                principles underlying them. I had hoped to have such a dialogue with Matt Cheselka in
                the fourcornersporcupines Yahoo group about Paul's and my disagreements with FSP, but
                his one response (part of the dialogues at the above link) is all that he ever made
                to that group on the subject. It does no one good in the long-run to keep
                close-mouthed, adhering to the nonsensical platitude "If you can't say anything nice,
                don't say anything at all".

                I also don't understand why you include a conclusion that if you had remained a
                member that, as a "pro-NH activist", you wouldn't vote so as not "to 'taint' the
                total". That would lead to the reasoning that no one who had a strong preference to
                any particular state - and was trying to persuade others to the same conclusion -
                should take part in "the vote". Are you saying that one who tries to persuade others
                should not vote on a voting matter? Further explanation here would also help others
                to understand.

                I know that what I am requesting/suggesting - making known your chain of reasoning on
                the matter of continuation with FSP - is something that many might consider
                "personal" and therefore not subject for public scrutiny. I think that publicizing -
                at least publicly making a stand on issues including one's own decisions - is
                something each of us *should* do. It is part of being responsible for one's actions,
                good and bad.


                >
                > In the last five days I've re-inventoried my Yahoo lists and decided to
                > cull the non-performers.
                >
                > 'tis all.
                >
                > rick
                >

                As a USer (and married to a Canadian) with legal residence in AZ but always looking
                for a more liberty-minded location on this earth to live while retaining the
                technological advances available in North America, I have been interested in NH for
                quite some time - even before FSP. Paul and I are still very much interested in the
                locations within the "city corridor" (Nashua to Concord) and would like to hear more
                discussion about that area for potential relocation. (Taxes, ordinances, prices,
                etc.) Maybe you can suggest another group - made up of more individual thinking
                rather than groupthink persons and ones not seeking a survivalist environment.

                **Kitty Antonik Wakfer
                MoreLife for the rational - http://morelife.org
                Reality based tools for more life in quantity and quality
                Self-Sovereign Individual Project - http://selfsip.org
                Rational freedom by self-sovereignty & social contracting
              • Rick LaPoint
                With all due respect, I don t really care to delve into my reasoning for opting out of the FSP as an organization. As an idea I think it s great, but let s
                Message 7 of 9 , May 2, 2004
                  With all due respect, I don't really care to delve into my reasoning for
                  opting out of the FSP as an organization. As an 'idea' I think it's
                  great, but let's just say you won't find me haunting its
                  central-planning storefront 'office' in downtown Manchester or Concord
                  looking for my next 'freedom' assignment. ;)

                  As far as not voting, I had planned on moving back to NH eventually no
                  matter how the vote turned out, so returning my own ballot seemed
                  unfair.

                  I don't see any reason why people just can't move to NH and be *insert
                  philosophy here* without the cat-herders attempting to gather them up
                  and pigeon-hole them. That's just the way I prefer to do it, and unless
                  they start setting-up checkpoints to verify everyone's porcu-card upon
                  entry to the state, I'm guessing I've got a pretty darn good shot at
                  success.

                  Don't make me think about it too much Kitty, as knowing who some of my
                  prospective neighbors are might force me to change my mind upon deeper
                  reflection. :D

                  I'm more than happy to keep this list open, so long as there is a market
                  for it.

                  rick


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Kitty Antonik Wakfer [mailto:kitty@...]
                  Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 10:14 PM
                  To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com; "Rick LaPoint"
                  Subject: RE: [arizonaporcupines] RE: to be, or not to be

                  >
                  > Message: 5
                  > Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 00:10:13 -0700
                  > From: "Rick LaPoint" <rick@...>
                  > Subject: RE: to be, or not to be
                  >
                  > Actually, I 'quit' the fsp shortly before the vote. (I have the e-mail
                  > to JPS somewhere, but don't make me drag that up).
                  >
                  > Since I was a pro-NH activist as well as a former NH resident, I
                  didn't
                  > want my vote to 'taint' the total... plus I was growing tired of their
                  > downward spiral into groupthink.
                  >
                  > Which continues...

                  My husband Paul and I removed ourselves from the FSP roles months before
                  "the vote"
                  also but made it very public why were doing so.
                  <http://morelife.org/ssip/dialogues/>
                  We both think that one should not keep quiet about decisions made on any
                  subject,
                  especially when they are ones that others may be wrestling with - or at
                  least mulling
                  over - themselves. (The exception being information that government
                  agents can use
                  against a person.) Keeping silent only makes sense (in a distorted
                  manner) when the
                  decision was not well thought out and for which one does not really have
                  a logical
                  reason that is in their own best interest. Passing judgment on
                  organizations (which
                  are of course comprised of individuals since only they can think and
                  act), as well as
                  individuals, is absolutely necessary for each person to do. Abdicating
                  such real
                  responsibility is foolish and dangerous in the long-run, even if it
                  appears to be
                  "neighborly" in the short-term.

                  Discussion on the reasoning employed can be extremely beneficial to
                  others as well as
                  oneself to ensure that the evaluations already made were correct - or to
                  determine
                  where errors might have been made - and to reduce the likelihood of
                  future errors. In
                  that vein Rick, I think it would be very worthwhile to air your reasons
                  and the
                  principles underlying them. I had hoped to have such a dialogue with
                  Matt Cheselka in
                  the fourcornersporcupines Yahoo group about Paul's and my disagreements
                  with FSP, but
                  his one response (part of the dialogues at the above link) is all that
                  he ever made
                  to that group on the subject. It does no one good in the long-run to
                  keep
                  close-mouthed, adhering to the nonsensical platitude "If you can't say
                  anything nice,
                  don't say anything at all".

                  I also don't understand why you include a conclusion that if you had
                  remained a
                  member that, as a "pro-NH activist", you wouldn't vote so as not "to
                  'taint' the
                  total". That would lead to the reasoning that no one who had a strong
                  preference to
                  any particular state - and was trying to persuade others to the same
                  conclusion -
                  should take part in "the vote". Are you saying that one who tries to
                  persuade others
                  should not vote on a voting matter? Further explanation here would also
                  help others
                  to understand.

                  I know that what I am requesting/suggesting - making known your chain of
                  reasoning on
                  the matter of continuation with FSP - is something that many might
                  consider
                  "personal" and therefore not subject for public scrutiny. I think that
                  publicizing -
                  at least publicly making a stand on issues including one's own decisions
                  - is
                  something each of us *should* do. It is part of being responsible for
                  one's actions,
                  good and bad.


                  >
                  > In the last five days I've re-inventoried my Yahoo lists and decided
                  to
                  > cull the non-performers.
                  >
                  > 'tis all.
                  >
                  > rick
                  >

                  As a USer (and married to a Canadian) with legal residence in AZ but
                  always looking
                  for a more liberty-minded location on this earth to live while retaining
                  the
                  technological advances available in North America, I have been
                  interested in NH for
                  quite some time - even before FSP. Paul and I are still very much
                  interested in the
                  locations within the "city corridor" (Nashua to Concord) and would like
                  to hear more
                  discussion about that area for potential relocation. (Taxes, ordinances,
                  prices,
                  etc.) Maybe you can suggest another group - made up of more individual
                  thinking
                  rather than groupthink persons and ones not seeking a survivalist
                  environment.

                  **Kitty Antonik Wakfer
                  MoreLife for the rational - http://morelife.org
                  Reality based tools for more life in quantity and quality
                  Self-Sovereign Individual Project - http://selfsip.org
                  Rational freedom by self-sovereignty & social contracting









                  Yahoo! Groups Links
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