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to be, or not to be

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  • Rick LaPoint
    As this list is no longer sanctioned by the FSP, I m recommending killing it. Unless someone else on this list feels differently and wants to run with it. I m
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 30, 2004
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      As this list is no longer sanctioned by the FSP, I'm recommending
      killing it.

      Unless someone else on this list feels differently and wants to run with
      it.

      I'm still moving to NH, but I'm no longer associating myself with the
      FSP in any form.

      Call me a 'glass-eater', but I don't need 'em.

      rick
      http://www.isil.org/resources/introduction.swf

      "The stations that are showing Americans intentionally killing women and
      children are not legitimate news sources"

      -Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt (April 2004)

      Freedom is the answer... What was the question again?

      =====================================================================
      "Democracy, n.: A government of the masses. Authority derived
      through mass meeting or any other form of direct expression.
      Results in mobocracy. Attitude toward property is communistic...
      negating property rights. Attitude toward law is that the will of
      the majority shall regulate, whether it is based upon deliberation
      or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse, without restraint
      or regard to consequences. Result is demagogism, license,
      agitation, discontent, anarchy."

      -- U. S. Army Training Manual No. 2000-25 (1928-1932),
      since withdrawn.
    • mslagea@aol.com
      In a message dated 4/30/2004 9:31:04 PM US Mountain Standard Time, rick@onelilgirl.com writes: As this list is no longer sanctioned by the FSP, I m
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 30, 2004
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        In a message dated 4/30/2004 9:31:04 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
        rick@... writes:
        As this list is no longer sanctioned by the FSP, I'm recommending
        killing it.

        Unless someone else on this list feels differently and wants to run with
        it.

        I'm still moving to NH, but I'm no longer associating myself with the
        FSP in any form.

        Call me a 'glass-eater', but I don't need 'em.

        rick
        If you're not associating with FSP, why do you care if they sanction a group
        or not?


        ~~Lagea


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Rick LaPoint
        I don t... *poof* rick ... From: mslagea@aol.com [mailto:mslagea@aol.com] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 11:43 PM To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com Subject:
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 30, 2004
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          I don't...

          *poof*

          rick

          -----Original Message-----
          From: mslagea@... [mailto:mslagea@...]
          Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 11:43 PM
          To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [arizonaporcupines] to be, or not to be

          In a message dated 4/30/2004 9:31:04 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
          rick@... writes:
          As this list is no longer sanctioned by the FSP, I'm recommending
          killing it.

          Unless someone else on this list feels differently and wants to run with
          it.

          I'm still moving to NH, but I'm no longer associating myself with the
          FSP in any form.

          Call me a 'glass-eater', but I don't need 'em.

          rick
          If you're not associating with FSP, why do you care if they sanction a
          group
          or not?


          ~~Lagea


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • mslagea@aol.com
          I might regret this later, but I am still going to ask. Rick, What happened in the last five days that led you to quit the FSP? ~~Lagea [Non-text portions of
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 30, 2004
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            I might regret this later, but I am still going to ask.
            Rick,
            What happened in the last five days that led you to quit the FSP?

            ~~Lagea


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Rick LaPoint
            Actually, I quit the fsp shortly before the vote. (I have the e-mail to JPS somewhere, but don t make me drag that up). Since I was a pro-NH activist as well
            Message 5 of 9 , May 1, 2004
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              Actually, I 'quit' the fsp shortly before the vote. (I have the e-mail
              to JPS somewhere, but don't make me drag that up).

              Since I was a pro-NH activist as well as a former NH resident, I didn't
              want my vote to 'taint' the total... plus I was growing tired of their
              downward spiral into groupthink.

              Which continues...

              In the last five days I've re-inventoried my Yahoo lists and decided to
              cull the non-performers.

              'tis all.

              rick



              -----Original Message-----
              From: mslagea@... [mailto:mslagea@...]
              Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 11:59 PM
              To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [arizonaporcupines] to be, or not to be

              I might regret this later, but I am still going to ask.
              Rick,
              What happened in the last five days that led you to quit the FSP?

              ~~Lagea


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              Yahoo! Groups Links
            • mslagea@aol.com
              Thanks for humoring my curiosity :) ~~Lagea [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 9 , May 1, 2004
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                Thanks for humoring my curiosity :)


                ~~Lagea


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Rick LaPoint
                NP ... From: mslagea@aol.com [mailto:mslagea@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 12:15 AM To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re:
                Message 7 of 9 , May 1, 2004
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                  NP

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: mslagea@... [mailto:mslagea@...]
                  Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 12:15 AM
                  To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [arizonaporcupines] to be, or not to be

                  Thanks for humoring my curiosity :)


                  ~~Lagea


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                • Kitty Antonik Wakfer
                  ... My husband Paul and I removed ourselves from the FSP roles months before the vote also but made it very public why were doing so.
                  Message 8 of 9 , May 1, 2004
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                    >
                    > Message: 5
                    > Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 00:10:13 -0700
                    > From: "Rick LaPoint" <rick@...>
                    > Subject: RE: to be, or not to be
                    >
                    > Actually, I 'quit' the fsp shortly before the vote. (I have the e-mail
                    > to JPS somewhere, but don't make me drag that up).
                    >
                    > Since I was a pro-NH activist as well as a former NH resident, I didn't
                    > want my vote to 'taint' the total... plus I was growing tired of their
                    > downward spiral into groupthink.
                    >
                    > Which continues...

                    My husband Paul and I removed ourselves from the FSP roles months before "the vote"
                    also but made it very public why were doing so. <http://morelife.org/ssip/dialogues/>
                    We both think that one should not keep quiet about decisions made on any subject,
                    especially when they are ones that others may be wrestling with - or at least mulling
                    over - themselves. (The exception being information that government agents can use
                    against a person.) Keeping silent only makes sense (in a distorted manner) when the
                    decision was not well thought out and for which one does not really have a logical
                    reason that is in their own best interest. Passing judgment on organizations (which
                    are of course comprised of individuals since only they can think and act), as well as
                    individuals, is absolutely necessary for each person to do. Abdicating such real
                    responsibility is foolish and dangerous in the long-run, even if it appears to be
                    "neighborly" in the short-term.

                    Discussion on the reasoning employed can be extremely beneficial to others as well as
                    oneself to ensure that the evaluations already made were correct - or to determine
                    where errors might have been made - and to reduce the likelihood of future errors. In
                    that vein Rick, I think it would be very worthwhile to air your reasons and the
                    principles underlying them. I had hoped to have such a dialogue with Matt Cheselka in
                    the fourcornersporcupines Yahoo group about Paul's and my disagreements with FSP, but
                    his one response (part of the dialogues at the above link) is all that he ever made
                    to that group on the subject. It does no one good in the long-run to keep
                    close-mouthed, adhering to the nonsensical platitude "If you can't say anything nice,
                    don't say anything at all".

                    I also don't understand why you include a conclusion that if you had remained a
                    member that, as a "pro-NH activist", you wouldn't vote so as not "to 'taint' the
                    total". That would lead to the reasoning that no one who had a strong preference to
                    any particular state - and was trying to persuade others to the same conclusion -
                    should take part in "the vote". Are you saying that one who tries to persuade others
                    should not vote on a voting matter? Further explanation here would also help others
                    to understand.

                    I know that what I am requesting/suggesting - making known your chain of reasoning on
                    the matter of continuation with FSP - is something that many might consider
                    "personal" and therefore not subject for public scrutiny. I think that publicizing -
                    at least publicly making a stand on issues including one's own decisions - is
                    something each of us *should* do. It is part of being responsible for one's actions,
                    good and bad.


                    >
                    > In the last five days I've re-inventoried my Yahoo lists and decided to
                    > cull the non-performers.
                    >
                    > 'tis all.
                    >
                    > rick
                    >

                    As a USer (and married to a Canadian) with legal residence in AZ but always looking
                    for a more liberty-minded location on this earth to live while retaining the
                    technological advances available in North America, I have been interested in NH for
                    quite some time - even before FSP. Paul and I are still very much interested in the
                    locations within the "city corridor" (Nashua to Concord) and would like to hear more
                    discussion about that area for potential relocation. (Taxes, ordinances, prices,
                    etc.) Maybe you can suggest another group - made up of more individual thinking
                    rather than groupthink persons and ones not seeking a survivalist environment.

                    **Kitty Antonik Wakfer
                    MoreLife for the rational - http://morelife.org
                    Reality based tools for more life in quantity and quality
                    Self-Sovereign Individual Project - http://selfsip.org
                    Rational freedom by self-sovereignty & social contracting
                  • Rick LaPoint
                    With all due respect, I don t really care to delve into my reasoning for opting out of the FSP as an organization. As an idea I think it s great, but let s
                    Message 9 of 9 , May 2, 2004
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                      With all due respect, I don't really care to delve into my reasoning for
                      opting out of the FSP as an organization. As an 'idea' I think it's
                      great, but let's just say you won't find me haunting its
                      central-planning storefront 'office' in downtown Manchester or Concord
                      looking for my next 'freedom' assignment. ;)

                      As far as not voting, I had planned on moving back to NH eventually no
                      matter how the vote turned out, so returning my own ballot seemed
                      unfair.

                      I don't see any reason why people just can't move to NH and be *insert
                      philosophy here* without the cat-herders attempting to gather them up
                      and pigeon-hole them. That's just the way I prefer to do it, and unless
                      they start setting-up checkpoints to verify everyone's porcu-card upon
                      entry to the state, I'm guessing I've got a pretty darn good shot at
                      success.

                      Don't make me think about it too much Kitty, as knowing who some of my
                      prospective neighbors are might force me to change my mind upon deeper
                      reflection. :D

                      I'm more than happy to keep this list open, so long as there is a market
                      for it.

                      rick


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Kitty Antonik Wakfer [mailto:kitty@...]
                      Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 10:14 PM
                      To: arizonaporcupines@yahoogroups.com; "Rick LaPoint"
                      Subject: RE: [arizonaporcupines] RE: to be, or not to be

                      >
                      > Message: 5
                      > Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 00:10:13 -0700
                      > From: "Rick LaPoint" <rick@...>
                      > Subject: RE: to be, or not to be
                      >
                      > Actually, I 'quit' the fsp shortly before the vote. (I have the e-mail
                      > to JPS somewhere, but don't make me drag that up).
                      >
                      > Since I was a pro-NH activist as well as a former NH resident, I
                      didn't
                      > want my vote to 'taint' the total... plus I was growing tired of their
                      > downward spiral into groupthink.
                      >
                      > Which continues...

                      My husband Paul and I removed ourselves from the FSP roles months before
                      "the vote"
                      also but made it very public why were doing so.
                      <http://morelife.org/ssip/dialogues/>
                      We both think that one should not keep quiet about decisions made on any
                      subject,
                      especially when they are ones that others may be wrestling with - or at
                      least mulling
                      over - themselves. (The exception being information that government
                      agents can use
                      against a person.) Keeping silent only makes sense (in a distorted
                      manner) when the
                      decision was not well thought out and for which one does not really have
                      a logical
                      reason that is in their own best interest. Passing judgment on
                      organizations (which
                      are of course comprised of individuals since only they can think and
                      act), as well as
                      individuals, is absolutely necessary for each person to do. Abdicating
                      such real
                      responsibility is foolish and dangerous in the long-run, even if it
                      appears to be
                      "neighborly" in the short-term.

                      Discussion on the reasoning employed can be extremely beneficial to
                      others as well as
                      oneself to ensure that the evaluations already made were correct - or to
                      determine
                      where errors might have been made - and to reduce the likelihood of
                      future errors. In
                      that vein Rick, I think it would be very worthwhile to air your reasons
                      and the
                      principles underlying them. I had hoped to have such a dialogue with
                      Matt Cheselka in
                      the fourcornersporcupines Yahoo group about Paul's and my disagreements
                      with FSP, but
                      his one response (part of the dialogues at the above link) is all that
                      he ever made
                      to that group on the subject. It does no one good in the long-run to
                      keep
                      close-mouthed, adhering to the nonsensical platitude "If you can't say
                      anything nice,
                      don't say anything at all".

                      I also don't understand why you include a conclusion that if you had
                      remained a
                      member that, as a "pro-NH activist", you wouldn't vote so as not "to
                      'taint' the
                      total". That would lead to the reasoning that no one who had a strong
                      preference to
                      any particular state - and was trying to persuade others to the same
                      conclusion -
                      should take part in "the vote". Are you saying that one who tries to
                      persuade others
                      should not vote on a voting matter? Further explanation here would also
                      help others
                      to understand.

                      I know that what I am requesting/suggesting - making known your chain of
                      reasoning on
                      the matter of continuation with FSP - is something that many might
                      consider
                      "personal" and therefore not subject for public scrutiny. I think that
                      publicizing -
                      at least publicly making a stand on issues including one's own decisions
                      - is
                      something each of us *should* do. It is part of being responsible for
                      one's actions,
                      good and bad.


                      >
                      > In the last five days I've re-inventoried my Yahoo lists and decided
                      to
                      > cull the non-performers.
                      >
                      > 'tis all.
                      >
                      > rick
                      >

                      As a USer (and married to a Canadian) with legal residence in AZ but
                      always looking
                      for a more liberty-minded location on this earth to live while retaining
                      the
                      technological advances available in North America, I have been
                      interested in NH for
                      quite some time - even before FSP. Paul and I are still very much
                      interested in the
                      locations within the "city corridor" (Nashua to Concord) and would like
                      to hear more
                      discussion about that area for potential relocation. (Taxes, ordinances,
                      prices,
                      etc.) Maybe you can suggest another group - made up of more individual
                      thinking
                      rather than groupthink persons and ones not seeking a survivalist
                      environment.

                      **Kitty Antonik Wakfer
                      MoreLife for the rational - http://morelife.org
                      Reality based tools for more life in quantity and quality
                      Self-Sovereign Individual Project - http://selfsip.org
                      Rational freedom by self-sovereignty & social contracting









                      Yahoo! Groups Links
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