Re: [fourcornersporcupines] Re: "Unofficial" account from the Escape
- I'm really looking forward to seeing New Hampshire as the Free State.
The Western States are in my opinion ill-suited for a variety of
reasons. I would almost consider starting a second FSP movement if New
Hampshire didn't win, but I did give my word that I would move anywhere
but Alaska, therefore that's what I'll do.
I love New Mexico, in fact if not for all of the Federal money that
pours into this State it would make a good candidate for the Free
State, but alas, we suck the Federal Government's tit like almost no
other State in the Union does.
The upside is that New Hampshire has mountains, water, and a liberty
I'm curious why Mississippi didn't make the top 10. Does anyone know
why it didn't?
On Monday, June 30, 2003, at 03:25 PM, Brian wrote:
> Thanks for this post. I'm extremely bullish on New Hampshire. A
> Free State there would definitely be a thorn in the establishment's
> side. But I DO love the Mountain West. How many in this group
> think there's a chance you would move back East? How many would
> promptly join a second FSP movement for a Western state if New
> Hampshire won the vote?
> --- In email@example.com, "Rick LaPoint"
> <rick@o...> wrote:
> > From: Mike Lorrey <mlorrey@y...> Save Address | Headers
> > To: <firstname.lastname@example.org>
> > CC:
> > Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 12:20:51 -0700 (PDT)
> > Subject: [NH Live Free Or Die] Unofficial NH article for the in-
> house crowd...
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> > This is something I typed up for another mail list from
> impressions and fuzzy memory. I am not responsible for beer induced
> hallucinations, misimpressions, or misquotes.... enjoy...
> > I've been a member of the FSP since its founder, Jason Sorens, a
> Yale graduate student, first floated the proposal for the FSP on
> several mailing lists, including the extropians, exi-freedom, and
> transtopians lists in mid-2001. In early discussions, we planned to
> recruit membership till we reached 5,000 members, then hold a vote
> on which state to move to when membership reached 20k. Since then,
> I've tracked the group, but not been much involved until the last 6
> months as membership has grown and the yahoogroups we originally
> founded (and their offshoots) have involved greater numbers of
> > This past week, I took a vacation from work to join in with the
> Escape to New Hampshire, hoping to serve as a resource for those
> visiting from out of state. While I missed the opening sessions due
> to car trouble, these sessions included LP Presidential Candidate
> Michael Badnarik and southern radio talk show host Gary Nolan
> (inventor of the Nolan Chart and the Worlds Shortest Political
> Quiz), stimulating presentations by Elizabeth McKinstry and Tim
> Condon, members of the FSP board, LPNH gubernatorial candidate and
> chair John Babiarz, Diane Gilbert from the
> > New Hampshire Center for Constitutional Studies, among others, and
> a panel Q&A session including Don Gorman, James Maynard, and others
> > answering questions about the NH advantage and political
> > Both local and AP print reporters were on hand, as well as NH
> Public Radio correspondent Trish Anderton, who hosted Elizabeth
> McInstrey and John Barnes on http://www.nhpr.org/view_content/4867/
> a talk show the preceding Friday regarding the FSP, as well as a
> http://www.nhpr.org/view_content/4899/ piece on the
> > conference that aired nationwide in an edited version on
> http://discover.npr.org/features/feature.jhtml?wfId=1311107 NPR's
> > Morning Edition on June 26th.
> > During the week, I served as native resource and guide to out of
> > staters on the laws, land, history, and people of New Hampshire. I
> took a number of people on a tour of the remote north country where
> they were able to photo moose and deer in their native environment,
> to do a little shooting, browse various types of real estate for
> pricing and features, and swim in what I regard as the finest
> swimming hole in New Hampshire.
> > One of my tourists was Connecticutt LP officer Tony Stanik who is
> > bullish on NH. Tony escaped from Communist Poland in the early
> 1980s and works today as a CNC machinist and mechanical engineer.
> Tony has an interesting way of deciding where to live, "When I lived
> in Poland, I wanted to escape the communist system, but could get no
> good information on other countries. I was almost arrested once for
> visiting the US embassy for info. I decided that the only way to
> decide was to figure out what countries the Communist media hated
> the most and go there. Foremost, they hated South Africa, but when I
> reached the refugee camp in Austria, South Africa was only taking
> East Germans. The US was the next most hated, so I applied to come
> here and was accepted."
> > Since coming to the US, Tony has experienced many of the various
> nanny state features in our country, both in and out of government,
> and has rejected them all, whether they be the possessive and
> overbearing Alabama church group that originally sponsored him to
> move here, or various government agencies he needed to get through
> to establish his own business and to get his wife out of Poland.
> > Another tourist I helped was Ellen Murphy. Ellen comes from a
> liberal background and only recently moved to Freedom, NH from
> Washington DC. In DC, she was a freelance capital photographer who
> grew increasingly shut out of government as post-9/11 security
> measures clamped down on public access to their elected
> officials. "While I still have sympathy for many liberal causes, I
> have determined that we just have lost a lot of individual liberty
> in this country that needs to be restored, both in the social and
> economic areas."
> > Another is Trevor Snyder, a Canadian citizen who currently lives in
> > Alabama. He and a fellow Free Stater spent their free time during
> the week intensely shopping for a good sized plot of land to build
> homes on. Like many visitors this week, he and his friend were
> overjoyed to be able to carry their pistols openly without needing a
> permit, which they did at every chance.
> > "Growing up in Canada, I've seen it grow increasingly socialist and
> > individual rights have reduced," Trevor explains, "I want to live
> with my wife and 17 dogs someplace where nobody can tell me what to
> do on my own land." Even in NH, this is not entirely without
> complications. Not all residents are conservatives or libertarians.
> Trevor and Doug found this out when they visited one real estate
> office in Colebrook, NH, where the Carl Drega shootout occured
> several years ago. The agent they met excused himself to allegedly
> retrieve some papers from a back office. He was last seen speeding
> out the parking lot in his car, and a few minutes later a police
> officer pulled up. The two explained who they were and what they
> were doing. The officer said, "Whats a libertarian, some kinna crazy
> democrat?". When the two explained what libertarians represented,
> the officer replied, "Shoot, I'll bet all the cops around here are
> libertarians," and left with a smile and handshake.
> > This whole incident confused the two ardent freedom seekers until I
> > told the story of Carl Drega over the campfire that evening.
> > Thursday, they left for Alabama still intent on moving to New
> > Hampshire. "It offers the best hope for the project because it is
> already the furthest along the road."
> > On Friday, a number of attendees, mostly visitors, met in Concord
> with Governor Craig Benson, founder of Cabletron, and who is
> currently in a big budget fight with the legistlature.
> > "Call me Craig," he started off in the introductions. Craig said
> that he has more in common with libertarians than with most of his
> > Republican colleagues, which I guess is why he was a registered
> > Independent until a year before he ran for Governor. This is also
> why he appointed his rival candidate, LPNH chairman John Babiarz, to
> chair his Efficiency in Government committee. When asked what he
> thought of 20k libertarians moving to NH, he replied, "Come on up,
> we'd love to have you."
> > Amanda Phillips, extropian, FSP boardmember, single mother, and
> > Massachusetts resident, asked him if he'd become a Friend of the
> FSP, he said he would, "anything John Babiarz is involved in is okay
> with me. John and I agree on everything. Send the paperwork to my
> > Saturday during the day, there was a networking session and booths
> > presented by various liberty oriented groups, including NORFED,
> > Jail4Judges, and Gun Owners of NH. In the evening there was a
> barbecue and fireworks show hosted in Jefferson by Welcome to the
> Granite State Committee chair John Barnes.
> > There I gave a talk to a group about the spread of luddism among
> the radical left and right, how various luddite groups network and
> maintain an underground railroad for eco-terrorists, and how their
> agenda is distinctly in opposition to everything that libertarians
> stand for. New York portrait and landcape artist Francis White
> charactarized it best as "A coming battle between the future and the
> past. The future will win, but the past will exact bloody measure."
> > =====
> > Mike Lorrey
> > "Live Free or Die, Death is not the Worst of Evils."
> > - Gen. John
> > Blog: Sado-Mikeyism: http://mikeysoft.zblogger.com
> > Flight sims: http://www.x-plane.org/users/greendragon/
> > Pro-tech freedom discussion:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exi-freedom
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- Hi Matt! You heard right when you wrote "deluted." Libertarians
have always sabotaged themselves with attitudes and approaches full
of stuff that is unnecessary and self-defeating. If they were not
deluted in this way, they wouldn't need such large numbers to create
--- In email@example.com, "Matt Cheselka"
> --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "Brian"A
> <holy_instant@y...> wrote:
> > Thanks for this post. I'm extremely bullish on New Hampshire.
> > Free State there would definitely be a thorn in theestablishment's
> > side. But I DO love the Mountain West. How many in this groupthink
> > think there's a chance you would move back East? How many would
> > promptly join a second FSP movement for a Western state if New
> > Hampshire won the vote?
> A coupla comments. First, if you're a member of the FSP, you've
> already agreed to move. Those of you who are members that don't
> you'll be making the move had better change your status. Yousigned
> an oath on your honor. We're not playing games here, folks.activists
> Second, I'm in favor of a 50-state FSP movement. Unfortunately, we
> don't have the numbers to do that yet. In fact, anything beyond a
> single state right now would be a disaster. Liberty-minded
> are WAY TOO diluted (our population density is too small) to beCome
> effective in any other capacity than working in a single state.
> on, guys! We're pioneers here! We're gonna go out and dosomething
> Great! We're gonna change the world!!! Let's not mess it up byeffort
> spreading ourselves too thin! We need a single, concentrated
> in order to be effective.
> So the questions should not be if/why. The questions should be
> See you there,