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- I have some difficulty to understand Aristotle's point
of view of the relationship between the mouvement and
the sudden, unexpected appearance of a God!!
Can you help bridge the gap?
Souran
_____________________________________________________________________________
Ne gardez plus qu'une seule adresse mail ! Copiez vos mails vers Yahoo! Mail - Dear Timothy
'God'
Please look up fnalities...Aristotle 4causes on net
Souran
--- physisvnomos <physisvnomos@...> a écrit :
> Mr. Mardini,
__________________________________________________________
>
> Forgive me, Soran, but your comments are of interest
> and I am plagued
> by ignorance; what is meant by the term "external
> finality"?
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Timothy E. Kennelly
>
>
> --- In aristotle-met@yahoogroups.com, Soran Mardini
> <souranmardini@...> wrote:
> >
> > Mr. Kennelly
> > No personal jest is made. Far from this...
> > Ý consider only ideas and concepts.
> > What worries me a lot are assumptions of proofs
> and
> > evidences for or against the existance of an
> "external
> > finality".. We simply have no empiric knowledge..
> > Unless you can produce the contrary
> > Sincerely
> > Souran
> > --- physisvnomos <physisvnomos@...> a écrit :
> >
> > > Mr. Mardini,
> > >
> > > I simply asked a question, nothing more. It is
> not
> > > intended to be a
> > > tendentious question.
> > >
> > > Timothy E. Kennelly
> > >
> > > --- In aristotle-met@yahoogroups.com, Soran
> Mardini
> > > <souranmardini@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Absolute Rubbish,
> > > > Give me one , one single evidence only
> > > > even a sign, an indice, anything...
> > > > Souran
> > > > --- John Barone <vespatian75@> a écrit :
> > > >
> > > > > Mr Kennelly, I believe that what you say
> > > certainly a
> > > > > valid theory easily reconcilable to
> Aristotelian
> > > > > thought. I don't know if Aristotle or
> Aquinas
> > > ever
> > > > > articulated such a theory, but certainly it
> > > could be
> > > > > seen as consistent with their views. More
> > > > > importantly it is in its own right a
> perfectly
> > > valid
> > > > > way to look at the relation of the Creator
> and
> > > the
> > > > > Cosmos.
> > > > > Thank you for sharing it with me
> > > > > John Barone
> > > > >
> > > > > physisvnomos <physisvnomos@> wrote:
> > > > > Mr. Barone,
> > > > >
> > > > > What in the text makes you so confident that
> > > theos
> > > > > is not acting in
> > > > > time or creating time? I have seen this
> argument
> > > > > more than once, but
> > > > > am uncertain regarding its truth.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > Timothy E. Kennelly
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In aristotle-met@yahoogroups.com, John
> > > Barone
> > > > > <vespatian75@>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Actually there is no miracle. To put it in
> > > more
> > > > > familiar language
> > > > > it seems to me that Aristotle is saying we
> live
> > > in a
> > > > > contigent world
> > > > > in which every event has its cause. But what
> > > about
> > > > > the universe
> > > > > itself? Either the universe had a beginning,
> and
> > > in
> > > > > that case what
> > > > > was the cause of its beginning or, as
> Aristotle
> > > > > believed, it was
> > > > > eternal but in that case what was the cause
> of
> > > its
> > > > > eternal motion?
> > > > > Aristotle believed that logic required an
> > > unmoved
> > > > > mover or as I
> > > > > prefer to call it an uncaused cause even if
> > > motion
> > > > > was eternal. It is
> > > > > important that we understand that this
> argument
> > > is
> > > > > not a temporal
> > > > > question but a question of being. Aquinas
> > > inspired
> > > > > by the Torah
> > > > > referred to God as that being whose essence
> is
> > > to
> > > > > exist and so is the
> > > > > ground for a contigent universe. God is "I
> am
> > > who
> > > > > am", to use the
> > > > > biblical phrase.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Soran Mardini <souranmardini@> wrote:
> Lance
> > > > > > Lamda, yes.
> > > > > > The whole metaphysics as well as the
> physics
> > > are
> > > > > based
> > > > > > on the notion that from the "phenomenon of
> > > > > mouvement"
> > > > > > Arsito leaps , by a miracle, to a God,
> > > perfect,
> > > > > > immovable and eternal as well as good
> > > !!!!!????
> > > > > > We think we are reading the Torah, don't
> we???
> > > > > > Souran
> > > > > > --- Lancelot Fletcher <lrfletcher@> a
> écrit :
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Souran,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Are you referring to Aristotle's
> > > introduction of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > notion of a Prime Mover
> > > > > > > in Metaphysics lamda? Can you say
> precisely
> > > > > which
> > > > > > > passage you find puzzling
> > > > > > > and say what it is that makes you find
> this
> > > > > > > perplexing?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Lance Fletcher
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > From: Soran Mardini <souranmardini@>
> > > > > > > > Reply-To:
> <aristotle-met@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 14:34:43 +0200
> > > (CEST)
> > > > > > > > To: <aristotle-met@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > > > Subject: [aristotle-met] (unknown)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have some difficulty to understand
> > > > > Aristotle's
> > > > > > > point
> > > > > > > > of view of the relationship between
> the
> > > > > mouvement
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > the sudden, unexpected appearance of a
> > > God!!
> > > > > > > > Can you help bridge the gap?
> > > > > > > > Souran
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> > > > > > > > Ne gardez plus qu'une seule adresse
=== message truncated ===
> mail !
> > > > > Copiez
>
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