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Hurrah for Medb! Mixed News for Ian

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  • davidduggar
    The September LoAR was sent out on the 31st. I am justing now seeing it today. Medb s device was registered - yeah! Ian (our good Loch Bais friend) had mixed
    Message 1 of 2 , Jan 2, 2009
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      The September LoAR was sent out on the 31st. I am justing now seeing
      it today. Medb's device was registered - yeah! Ian (our good Loch
      Bais friend) had mixed results.

      Rory

      REGISTERED SEPTEMBER 2008

      Medb ingen ui Mael Anfaid. Device. Per fess gules and sable, three
      chalices and an elephant passant argent.
      The submitter has a letter of permission to conflict with Odo de
      Payens, Per fess embattled purpure and vert, three goblets and a wolf
      statant argent.


      John of Gleann Abhann. Holding name and device (see RETURNS for
      name). Quarterly sable and vert, a straight trumpet bendwise sinister
      between in bend two arrows Or.
      Submitted under the name Iain O'Donnell of Gleann Abhann.


      RETURNED SEPTEMBER 2008

      Iain O'Donnell of Gleann Abhann. Name.
      This is returned for being two steps from period practice. The first
      is the use of the SCA-compatible Gaelic name Iain. The second is the
      combination of the Gaelic given name with the Anglicized Irish byname
      O'Donnell. As the submitter does not allow major changes, such as
      changing the language of an element, we are forced to return the
      name. The submitter should be informed that as of the May 2009
      decision meetings, Iain will no longer be considered SCA-compatible
      and that if he wishes to register the given name Iain, he will have
      to provide documentation for its use before 1600.
      There was some question whether the byname O'Donnell was a period
      form. The byname was documented from Woulfe, Sloinnte Gaedheal is
      Gall: Irish Names and Surnames, s.n. Ó Domnaill, where it is given as
      an anglicized form. However, it is not italicized, and given Woulfe's
      conventions, the lack of italics indicates that it is a modern form.
      Rowel found evidence that the spelling Donnell was used in our
      period. She cites a Murrough Mc Donnell O'Ferrall of Athey-donell who
      was mentioned in an indenture dated to 10 Feb 1570 quoted in John
      O'Donovan, ed., Annals of Ireland, by the Four Masters, vol. 5, pp.
      1651-1652. This means that O Donnell or O'Donnell is consistent with
      period Anglicized Irish forms, and so would be registerable.
      His device was registered under the holding name John of Gleann
      Abhann.
    • Staycy
      And, thus I am still stuck in Pre-proofreading : ( Hesper(is Ephesia) ... seeing ... wolf ... sinister ... first ... the ... byname ... as ... Woulfe s ...
      Message 2 of 2 , Jan 2, 2009
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        And, thus I am still stuck in Pre-proofreading : (

        Hesper(is Ephesia)


        --- In ardanroe@yahoogroups.com, "davidduggar" <ddugga@...> wrote:
        >
        > The September LoAR was sent out on the 31st. I am justing now
        seeing
        > it today. Medb's device was registered - yeah! Ian (our good Loch
        > Bais friend) had mixed results.
        >
        > Rory
        >
        > REGISTERED SEPTEMBER 2008
        >
        > Medb ingen ui Mael Anfaid. Device. Per fess gules and sable, three
        > chalices and an elephant passant argent.
        > The submitter has a letter of permission to conflict with Odo de
        > Payens, Per fess embattled purpure and vert, three goblets and a
        wolf
        > statant argent.
        >
        >
        > John of Gleann Abhann. Holding name and device (see RETURNS for
        > name). Quarterly sable and vert, a straight trumpet bendwise
        sinister
        > between in bend two arrows Or.
        > Submitted under the name Iain O'Donnell of Gleann Abhann.
        >
        >
        > RETURNED SEPTEMBER 2008
        >
        > Iain O'Donnell of Gleann Abhann. Name.
        > This is returned for being two steps from period practice. The
        first
        > is the use of the SCA-compatible Gaelic name Iain. The second is
        the
        > combination of the Gaelic given name with the Anglicized Irish
        byname
        > O'Donnell. As the submitter does not allow major changes, such as
        > changing the language of an element, we are forced to return the
        > name. The submitter should be informed that as of the May 2009
        > decision meetings, Iain will no longer be considered SCA-compatible
        > and that if he wishes to register the given name Iain, he will have
        > to provide documentation for its use before 1600.
        > There was some question whether the byname O'Donnell was a period
        > form. The byname was documented from Woulfe, Sloinnte Gaedheal is
        > Gall: Irish Names and Surnames, s.n. Ó Domnaill, where it is given
        as
        > an anglicized form. However, it is not italicized, and given
        Woulfe's
        > conventions, the lack of italics indicates that it is a modern
        form.
        > Rowel found evidence that the spelling Donnell was used in our
        > period. She cites a Murrough Mc Donnell O'Ferrall of Athey-donell
        who
        > was mentioned in an indenture dated to 10 Feb 1570 quoted in John
        > O'Donovan, ed., Annals of Ireland, by the Four Masters, vol. 5, pp.
        > 1651-1652. This means that O Donnell or O'Donnell is consistent
        with
        > period Anglicized Irish forms, and so would be registerable.
        > His device was registered under the holding name John of Gleann
        > Abhann.
        >
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