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Re: why is my venom 19 inverting?

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  • tungsten222
    mmmmhh.... I have managed to invert ARCs in mad gusty conditions with wind shifts and rotors, where the kite all of a sudden is behind you... before I started
    Message 1 of 8 , Jun 1, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      mmmmhh.... I have managed to invert ARCs in mad gusty conditions with wind shifts and rotors, where the kite all of a sudden is behind you... before I started flying them on tighter back lines in this mad stuff. Never happened with a big one though - maybe due to the fact that gusty = strong wind where I kite. I stall the kite immediately when it does funny shit, and stay on top of the game.

      --- In arcusers@yahoogroups.com, Wilgert Eshuis <venom19@...> wrote:
      >
      > Yes I did add the TET mod and the fixed bridle. The wind was very gusty. Could have been up to 25 knots or perhaps more. I weigh 92 kgs and am 1.95 m tall.My internal strap was totally loose. I did not feel completely out of control. When the kite dived into the water it was just about impossible to swim that hard to let it flip over. The kite was dragging me under water all the time and I had to pull the release. My back lines were reasonably loose to allow for depower. My bar throw is quite long. So do I have to tighten the backlines a lot in super gusty winds? Afterwards the wind had relaxed a little and I had a great time with my 13 m Venom.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: Myron <windsurfmanitoba@...>
      > To: arcusers@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Monday, 1 June, 2009 1:58:34 PM
      > Subject: [arcusers] Re: why is my venom 19 inverting?
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Wow, never inverted the 19V before or seen that. Maybe it was a combo of the very gusty winds and being sheeted out too much at the wrong moment. Were the conditions similar all 3 times this happened? Did you add a mod 12 months ago?
      >
      > Relaunching an inverted ARC (never did this with the 19 though) from a leading edge down position is easy. Remain hooked in, let go of the bar and swim like made toward it. It will roll over, right itself and launch. Depending on which way it inverted you may or may not have any twists in the left and right pairs. If so, it will still fly perfectly get back in and sort the twists out. They will wear each other out there if flown too long this way.
      >
      > --- In arcusers@yahoogroup s.com, "wilgerteshuis" <venom19@ > wrote:
      > >
      > > Went out yesterday in a strong and very gusty southerly wind in Tauranga New Zealand. I had an hour of very enjoyable riding up and down when the wind really started to kick in. I did a little jump, perhaps only half a meter high and my 19 m venom inverted. I thas happened to me 3 times in 12 month's. Any ideas how to prevent the kite from inverting? The kite landed and started to drag me down wind. I was going under water all the kite so had to pull the safety. After that a long wait for the dinghy to help me. Of course by that time the kite filled up with water. Are their any devices that can help prevent inverting?
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • bubbab91
      The reason your kite is inverting is that by putting TET in you have made the kite higher performance and more prone to this behaviour which is why it isn t
      Message 2 of 8 , Jun 1, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        The reason your kite is inverting is that by putting TET in you have made the kite higher performance and more prone to this behaviour which is why it isn't put in standard manufactured kites,also those are extreme conditions where this behaviour will show up .Imagine all the complaints .This sounds nuts but you will need to have your braid tighter if you don't want it to do this .Yes the kite will have more power but you won't find much difference in depower .Stay slow and edge hard.
        you can also put a top skin tuck in as the kites get older the top skin stretches and if you have TET as well it will have a tendency to do this .By doing a top skin tuck the kite will lose a bit of power but be more stable .Run it 80 cm from where the top and bottm skin are sewn together to 30 cm from the TE
        Get rid of the fixed bridle .Not only is useless but it will also make your kite less stable.

        one last note .It would be good if PL made and tested a true low ar arc proto with venom tips (Lower AR than the vortex)that is lots of grunt ,fast turns and heaps of depower retained


        --- In arcusers@yahoogroups.com, "tungsten222" <weiss@...> wrote:
        >
        > mmmmhh.... I have managed to invert ARCs in mad gusty conditions with wind shifts and rotors, where the kite all of a sudden is behind you... before I started flying them on tighter back lines in this mad stuff. Never happened with a big one though - maybe due to the fact that gusty = strong wind where I kite. I stall the kite immediately when it does funny shit, and stay on top of the game.
        >
        > --- In arcusers@yahoogroups.com, Wilgert Eshuis <venom19@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Yes I did add the TET mod and the fixed bridle. The wind was very gusty. Could have been up to 25 knots or perhaps more. I weigh 92 kgs and am 1.95 m tall.My internal strap was totally loose. I did not feel completely out of control. When the kite dived into the water it was just about impossible to swim that hard to let it flip over. The kite was dragging me under water all the time and I had to pull the release. My back lines were reasonably loose to allow for depower. My bar throw is quite long. So do I have to tighten the backlines a lot in super gusty winds? Afterwards the wind had relaxed a little and I had a great time with my 13 m Venom.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ________________________________
        > > From: Myron <windsurfmanitoba@>
        > > To: arcusers@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Monday, 1 June, 2009 1:58:34 PM
        > > Subject: [arcusers] Re: why is my venom 19 inverting?
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Wow, never inverted the 19V before or seen that. Maybe it was a combo of the very gusty winds and being sheeted out too much at the wrong moment. Were the conditions similar all 3 times this happened? Did you add a mod 12 months ago?
        > >
        > > Relaunching an inverted ARC (never did this with the 19 though) from a leading edge down position is easy. Remain hooked in, let go of the bar and swim like made toward it. It will roll over, right itself and launch. Depending on which way it inverted you may or may not have any twists in the left and right pairs. If so, it will still fly perfectly get back in and sort the twists out. They will wear each other out there if flown too long this way.
        > >
        > > --- In arcusers@yahoogroup s.com, "wilgerteshuis" <venom19@ > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Went out yesterday in a strong and very gusty southerly wind in Tauranga New Zealand. I had an hour of very enjoyable riding up and down when the wind really started to kick in. I did a little jump, perhaps only half a meter high and my 19 m venom inverted. I thas happened to me 3 times in 12 month's. Any ideas how to prevent the kite from inverting? The kite landed and started to drag me down wind. I was going under water all the kite so had to pull the safety. After that a long wait for the dinghy to help me. Of course by that time the kite filled up with water. Are their any devices that can help prevent inverting?
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
      • Wilgert Eshuis
        Thanks, I will shorten up the inner braid next time and fly with tighter back lines. Any idea which kite will be more forgiving in gusty conditions Venom 13 or
        Message 3 of 8 , Jun 1, 2009
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          Thanks, I will shorten up the inner braid next time and fly with tighter back lines. Any idea which kite will be more forgiving in gusty conditions Venom 13 or Vortex 14.

          wil




          ________________________________
          From: bubbab91 <bubbab91@...>
          To: arcusers@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, 2 June, 2009 11:02:23 AM
          Subject: [arcusers] Re: why is my venom 19 inverting?





          The reason your kite is inverting is that by putting TET in you have made the kite higher performance and more prone to this behaviour which is why it isn't put in standard manufactured kites,also those are extreme conditions where this behaviour will show up .Imagine all the complaints .This sounds nuts but you will need to have your braid tighter if you don't want it to do this .Yes the kite will have more power but you won't find much difference in depower .Stay slow and edge hard.
          you can also put a top skin tuck in as the kites get older the top skin stretches and if you have TET as well it will have a tendency to do this .By doing a top skin tuck the kite will lose a bit of power but be more stable .Run it 80 cm from where the top and bottm skin are sewn together to 30 cm from the TE
          Get rid of the fixed bridle .Not only is useless but it will also make your kite less stable.

          one last note .It would be good if PL made and tested a true low ar arc proto with venom tips (Lower AR than the vortex)that is lots of grunt ,fast turns and heaps of depower retained

          --- In arcusers@yahoogroup s.com, "tungsten222" <weiss@...> wrote:
          >
          > mmmmhh.... I have managed to invert ARCs in mad gusty conditions with wind shifts and rotors, where the kite all of a sudden is behind you... before I started flying them on tighter back lines in this mad stuff. Never happened with a big one though - maybe due to the fact that gusty = strong wind where I kite. I stall the kite immediately when it does funny shit, and stay on top of the game.
          >
          > --- In arcusers@yahoogroup s.com, Wilgert Eshuis <venom19@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Yes I did add the TET mod and the fixed bridle. The wind was very gusty. Could have been up to 25 knots or perhaps more. I weigh 92 kgs and am 1.95 m tall.My internal strap was totally loose. I did not feel completely out of control. When the kite dived into the water it was just about impossible to swim that hard to let it flip over. The kite was dragging me under water all the time and I had to pull the release. My back lines were reasonably loose to allow for depower. My bar throw is quite long. So do I have to tighten the backlines a lot in super gusty winds? Afterwards the wind had relaxed a little and I had a great time with my 13 m Venom.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ____________ _________ _________ __
          > > From: Myron <windsurfmanitoba@ >
          > > To: arcusers@yahoogroup s.com
          > > Sent: Monday, 1 June, 2009 1:58:34 PM
          > > Subject: [arcusers] Re: why is my venom 19 inverting?
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Wow, never inverted the 19V before or seen that. Maybe it was a combo of the very gusty winds and being sheeted out too much at the wrong moment. Were the conditions similar all 3 times this happened? Did you add a mod 12 months ago?
          > >
          > > Relaunching an inverted ARC (never did this with the 19 though) from a leading edge down position is easy. Remain hooked in, let go of the bar and swim like made toward it. It will roll over, right itself and launch. Depending on which way it inverted you may or may not have any twists in the left and right pairs. If so, it will still fly perfectly get back in and sort the twists out. They will wear each other out there if flown too long this way.
          > >
          > > --- In arcusers@yahoogroup s..com, "wilgerteshuis" <venom19@ > wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Went out yesterday in a strong and very gusty southerly wind in Tauranga New Zealand. I had an hour of very enjoyable riding up and down when the wind really started to kick in. I did a little jump, perhaps only half a meter high and my 19 m venom inverted. I thas happened to me 3 times in 12 month's. Any ideas how to prevent the kite from inverting? The kite landed and started to drag me down wind. I was going under water all the kite so had to pull the safety. After that a long wait for the dinghy to help me. Of course by that time the kite filled up with water. Are their any devices that can help prevent inverting?
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >







          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • bubbab91
          either should be fine prolly 13 v
          Message 4 of 8 , Jun 1, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            either should be fine prolly 13 v

            --- In arcusers@yahoogroups.com, Wilgert Eshuis <venom19@...> wrote:
            >
            > Thanks, I will shorten up the inner braid next time and fly with tighter back lines. Any idea which kite will be more forgiving in gusty conditions Venom 13 or Vortex 14.
            >
            > wil
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: bubbab91 <bubbab91@...>
            > To: arcusers@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Tuesday, 2 June, 2009 11:02:23 AM
            > Subject: [arcusers] Re: why is my venom 19 inverting?
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > The reason your kite is inverting is that by putting TET in you have made the kite higher performance and more prone to this behaviour which is why it isn't put in standard manufactured kites,also those are extreme conditions where this behaviour will show up .Imagine all the complaints .This sounds nuts but you will need to have your braid tighter if you don't want it to do this .Yes the kite will have more power but you won't find much difference in depower .Stay slow and edge hard.
            > you can also put a top skin tuck in as the kites get older the top skin stretches and if you have TET as well it will have a tendency to do this .By doing a top skin tuck the kite will lose a bit of power but be more stable .Run it 80 cm from where the top and bottm skin are sewn together to 30 cm from the TE
            > Get rid of the fixed bridle .Not only is useless but it will also make your kite less stable.
            >
            > one last note .It would be good if PL made and tested a true low ar arc proto with venom tips (Lower AR than the vortex)that is lots of grunt ,fast turns and heaps of depower retained
            >
            > --- In arcusers@yahoogroup s.com, "tungsten222" <weiss@> wrote:
            > >
            > > mmmmhh.... I have managed to invert ARCs in mad gusty conditions with wind shifts and rotors, where the kite all of a sudden is behind you... before I started flying them on tighter back lines in this mad stuff. Never happened with a big one though - maybe due to the fact that gusty = strong wind where I kite. I stall the kite immediately when it does funny shit, and stay on top of the game.
            > >
            > > --- In arcusers@yahoogroup s.com, Wilgert Eshuis <venom19@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Yes I did add the TET mod and the fixed bridle. The wind was very gusty. Could have been up to 25 knots or perhaps more. I weigh 92 kgs and am 1.95 m tall.My internal strap was totally loose. I did not feel completely out of control. When the kite dived into the water it was just about impossible to swim that hard to let it flip over. The kite was dragging me under water all the time and I had to pull the release. My back lines were reasonably loose to allow for depower. My bar throw is quite long. So do I have to tighten the backlines a lot in super gusty winds? Afterwards the wind had relaxed a little and I had a great time with my 13 m Venom.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
            > > > From: Myron <windsurfmanitoba@ >
            > > > To: arcusers@yahoogroup s.com
            > > > Sent: Monday, 1 June, 2009 1:58:34 PM
            > > > Subject: [arcusers] Re: why is my venom 19 inverting?
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Wow, never inverted the 19V before or seen that. Maybe it was a combo of the very gusty winds and being sheeted out too much at the wrong moment. Were the conditions similar all 3 times this happened? Did you add a mod 12 months ago?
            > > >
            > > > Relaunching an inverted ARC (never did this with the 19 though) from a leading edge down position is easy. Remain hooked in, let go of the bar and swim like made toward it. It will roll over, right itself and launch. Depending on which way it inverted you may or may not have any twists in the left and right pairs. If so, it will still fly perfectly get back in and sort the twists out. They will wear each other out there if flown too long this way.
            > > >
            > > > --- In arcusers@yahoogroup s..com, "wilgerteshuis" <venom19@ > wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Went out yesterday in a strong and very gusty southerly wind in Tauranga New Zealand. I had an hour of very enjoyable riding up and down when the wind really started to kick in. I did a little jump, perhaps only half a meter high and my 19 m venom inverted. I thas happened to me 3 times in 12 month's. Any ideas how to prevent the kite from inverting? The kite landed and started to drag me down wind. I was going under water all the kite so had to pull the safety. After that a long wait for the dinghy to help me. Of course by that time the kite filled up with water. Are their any devices that can help prevent inverting?
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Gunnar Biniasch
            Hi, Another reason for the Kites inverting could be damage to the Spars. A spar that gets too Flexible can cause the kite to centre collapse when under
            Message 5 of 8 , Jun 2, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi,

              Another reason for the Kites inverting could be damage to the Spars.

              A spar that gets too Flexible can cause the kite to centre collapse when under pressure.

              --
              Gunnar

              --- In arcusers@yahoogroups.com, "bubbab91" <bubbab91@...> wrote:
              >
              > either should be fine prolly 13 v
              >
              > --- In arcusers@yahoogroups.com, Wilgert Eshuis <venom19@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Thanks, I will shorten up the inner braid next time and fly with tighter back lines. Any idea which kite will be more forgiving in gusty conditions Venom 13 or Vortex 14.
              > >
              > > wil
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ________________________________
              > > From: bubbab91 <bubbab91@>
              > > To: arcusers@yahoogroups.com
              > > Sent: Tuesday, 2 June, 2009 11:02:23 AM
              > > Subject: [arcusers] Re: why is my venom 19 inverting?
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > The reason your kite is inverting is that by putting TET in you have made the kite higher performance and more prone to this behaviour which is why it isn't put in standard manufactured kites,also those are extreme conditions where this behaviour will show up .Imagine all the complaints .This sounds nuts but you will need to have your braid tighter if you don't want it to do this .Yes the kite will have more power but you won't find much difference in depower .Stay slow and edge hard.
              > > you can also put a top skin tuck in as the kites get older the top skin stretches and if you have TET as well it will have a tendency to do this .By doing a top skin tuck the kite will lose a bit of power but be more stable .Run it 80 cm from where the top and bottm skin are sewn together to 30 cm from the TE
              > > Get rid of the fixed bridle .Not only is useless but it will also make your kite less stable.
              > >
              > > one last note .It would be good if PL made and tested a true low ar arc proto with venom tips (Lower AR than the vortex)that is lots of grunt ,fast turns and heaps of depower retained
              > >
              > > --- In arcusers@yahoogroup s.com, "tungsten222" <weiss@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > mmmmhh.... I have managed to invert ARCs in mad gusty conditions with wind shifts and rotors, where the kite all of a sudden is behind you... before I started flying them on tighter back lines in this mad stuff. Never happened with a big one though - maybe due to the fact that gusty = strong wind where I kite. I stall the kite immediately when it does funny shit, and stay on top of the game.
              > > >
              > > > --- In arcusers@yahoogroup s.com, Wilgert Eshuis <venom19@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Yes I did add the TET mod and the fixed bridle. The wind was very gusty. Could have been up to 25 knots or perhaps more. I weigh 92 kgs and am 1.95 m tall.My internal strap was totally loose. I did not feel completely out of control. When the kite dived into the water it was just about impossible to swim that hard to let it flip over. The kite was dragging me under water all the time and I had to pull the release. My back lines were reasonably loose to allow for depower. My bar throw is quite long. So do I have to tighten the backlines a lot in super gusty winds? Afterwards the wind had relaxed a little and I had a great time with my 13 m Venom.
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
              > > > > From: Myron <windsurfmanitoba@ >
              > > > > To: arcusers@yahoogroup s.com
              > > > > Sent: Monday, 1 June, 2009 1:58:34 PM
              > > > > Subject: [arcusers] Re: why is my venom 19 inverting?
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > Wow, never inverted the 19V before or seen that. Maybe it was a combo of the very gusty winds and being sheeted out too much at the wrong moment. Were the conditions similar all 3 times this happened? Did you add a mod 12 months ago?
              > > > >
              > > > > Relaunching an inverted ARC (never did this with the 19 though) from a leading edge down position is easy. Remain hooked in, let go of the bar and swim like made toward it. It will roll over, right itself and launch. Depending on which way it inverted you may or may not have any twists in the left and right pairs. If so, it will still fly perfectly get back in and sort the twists out. They will wear each other out there if flown too long this way.
              > > > >
              > > > > --- In arcusers@yahoogroup s..com, "wilgerteshuis" <venom19@ > wrote:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Went out yesterday in a strong and very gusty southerly wind in Tauranga New Zealand. I had an hour of very enjoyable riding up and down when the wind really started to kick in. I did a little jump, perhaps only half a meter high and my 19 m venom inverted. I thas happened to me 3 times in 12 month's. Any ideas how to prevent the kite from inverting? The kite landed and started to drag me down wind. I was going under water all the kite so had to pull the safety. After that a long wait for the dinghy to help me. Of course by that time the kite filled up with water. Are their any devices that can help prevent inverting?
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
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