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Re: "Bow-Like" ARC Depower

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  • woodman_k
    Mel I agree about the unlimited sheeting range being great on the v PLKs. Brent and I use a bar now with the full 840mm range on demand with a stopper that
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 1, 2006
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      Mel
      I agree about the unlimited sheeting range being great on the v\PLKs.
      Brent and I use a bar now with the full 840mm range on demand with a
      stopper that holds when you need it but is easily pushed away in
      gusts.
      Check my my in photo stanbar. It's a bit crude but does the job as
      advertised.
      Cheers
      Stan--- In arcusers@yahoogroups.com, "kiteboard2000"
      <kiteboarder@...> wrote:
      >
      > I saw a grab handle on BOTH front lines of a C tube yesterday.
      The
      > user says it helps reduce the need to release to the reride, by
      fully
      > slackening both rear lines when you pull it down (giving instant
      full
      > in-flight depower, regardless of bar position or adjustment
      setting).
      > I think this would work even better on a "bow", & better yet on an
      ARC.
      >
      > It gave me another idea: It seems to me that a "bow" bar's
      increased
      > sheeting range would be an advantage on ARCs too. I certainly
      greatly
      > appreciate the unlimited sheeting range of my own "free" bar, &
      feel
      > hugely restricted when using a stock bar.
      >
      >
      > Mel
      >
    • kiteboard2000
      ... Glad to hear other ARCusers also benefit from huge instantaneous sheeting range. I hadn t realized that your bar is about the same as a bow bar. Mel
      Message 2 of 10 , Jul 1, 2006
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        "woodman_k" <woodman_k@...> wrote:
        > I agree about the unlimited sheeting range being great on
        > the v\PLKs. Brent and I use a bar now with the full 840mm
        > range on demand with a stopper that holds when you need it
        > but is easily pushed away in gusts.

        Glad to hear other ARCusers also benefit from huge instantaneous
        sheeting range. I hadn't realized that your bar is about the same as
        a "bow" bar.


        Mel
      • woodman_k
        Basically the same and the venoms really seem to like that. I rode my v2-16 today using a stock bar and then the bowbar and for me it opens up a lot of
        Message 3 of 10 , Jul 1, 2006
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          Basically the same and the venoms really seem to like that. I rode my
          v2-16 today using a stock bar and then the bowbar and for me it opens
          up a lot of different moves. Makes riding in the upper end in gusts no
          problemo.
          S

          --- In arcusers@yahoogroups.com, "kiteboard2000" <kiteboarder@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > "woodman_k" <woodman_k@> wrote:
          > > I agree about the unlimited sheeting range being great on
          > > the v\PLKs. Brent and I use a bar now with the full 840mm
          > > range on demand with a stopper that holds when you need it
          > > but is easily pushed away in gusts.
          >
          > Glad to hear other ARCusers also benefit from huge instantaneous
          > sheeting range. I hadn't realized that your bar is about the same
          as
          > a "bow" bar.
          >
          >
          > Mel
          >
        • kiteboard2000
          ... Yeah. I credit about half of my exceptional strong/gusty wind handling to the kite, & half to my bow-like bar. Mel
          Message 4 of 10 , Jul 1, 2006
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            "woodman_k" <woodman_k@...> wrote:
            > ...the bowbar ... Makes riding in the upper end in gusts no
            > problemo.

            Yeah. I credit about half of my exceptional strong/gusty wind handling
            to the kite, & half to my "bow-like" bar.

            Mel
          • Greg
            Given the very light bar pressure of Arcs it would be quite easy to rig up a true bow-style pulley bar. That should give you full depower without having to let
            Message 5 of 10 , Jul 2, 2006
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              Given the very light bar pressure of Arcs it would be quite easy to
              rig up a true bow-style pulley bar. That should give you full depower
              without having to let go of the bar.
            • kiteboard2000
              ... With OR without the pulleys. Adding pulleys has the same effect as doubling the instantaneous sheeting range (bar movement), but it also doubles bar load*
              Message 6 of 10 , Jul 3, 2006
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                "Greg" <Greg.Walsh@...> wrote:
                >
                > Given the very light bar pressure of Arcs it would be quite easy to
                > rig up a true bow-style pulley bar. That should give you full depower
                > without having to let go of the bar.

                With OR without the pulleys. Adding pulleys has the same effect as
                doubling the instantaneous sheeting range (bar movement), but it also
                doubles bar load* as well as adding complexity, cost, & weight (not
                that the last two matter much, but it all adds up).

                *I like the light bar load of stock ARCs, in fact I wouldn't mind if it
                was a BIT lighter, so I can ride even longer will less effort, but NOT
                as light as a Sonic, which gives NO feedback for sheeting out in gusts.


                Mel
              • Greg
                ... wrote: ... also ... True. I just thought it would be worth an experiment if someone cared to try it. I have found that the pulley bars are not too bad when
                Message 7 of 10 , Jul 3, 2006
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                  --- In arcusers@yahoogroups.com, "kiteboard2000" <kiteboarder@...>
                  wrote:
                  ....


                  > With OR without the pulleys. Adding pulleys has the same effect as
                  > doubling the instantaneous sheeting range (bar movement), but it
                  also
                  > doubles bar load* as well as adding complexity, cost, & weight (not
                  > that the last two matter much, but it all adds up).

                  True. I just thought it would be worth an experiment if someone cared
                  to try it.

                  I have found that the pulley bars are not too bad when riding but
                  they can be a nightmare during relaunch and packing up.

                  >
                  > *I like the light bar load of stock ARCs, in fact I wouldn't mind
                  if it
                  > was a BIT lighter, so I can ride even longer will less effort, but
                  NOT
                  > as light as a Sonic, which gives NO feedback for sheeting out in
                  gusts.

                  You must be riding a different Sonic to me. I find it has plenty of
                  feedback.
                • kiteboard2000
                  ... Yes, & I just thought that someone else* could try a non- pulley bow bar on an ARC. *I ve been loving my bow-like bar ever since the first 4-line lei
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jul 3, 2006
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                    "Greg" <Greg.Walsh@...> wrote:
                    > I just thought it would be worth an experiment if someone cared
                    > to try it.

                    Yes, & I just thought that someone else* could try a non-
                    pulley "bow" bar on an ARC.

                    *I've been loving my "bow-like" bar ever since the first 4-line lei
                    (before the first ARC).

                    > > I like ... light bar load ... but NOT
                    > > as light as a Sonic, which gives NO feedback for sheeting out
                    > > in gusts.
                    >
                    > You must be riding a different Sonic to me.
                    > I find it has plenty of feedback.

                    I can easily sheet in the Sonic 11 to full power with one hand, even
                    in moderate winds (& even easier in strong winds which require even
                    less rear line tension). I'd say it has about half the bar load of
                    my V13. This means that when a gust suddenly hits, the first thing
                    I feel is the kite jerking me by the harness. With an ARC the first
                    thing I feel is an increase in bar pull, & can simply LET it pull
                    away (straighten my elbows) so I DON'T get yanked by the gust.


                    Mel
                  • inognol
                    ... even ... first ... I think this is a key point got my first ride in very gusty with a 10pulse yesterday (something like 10
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jul 4, 2006
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                      --- In arcusers@yahoogroups.com, "kiteboard2000" <kiteboarder@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > "Greg" <Greg.Walsh@> wrote:
                      > > I just thought it would be worth an experiment if someone cared
                      > > to try it.
                      >
                      > Yes, & I just thought that someone else* could try a non-
                      > pulley "bow" bar on an ARC.
                      >
                      > *I've been loving my "bow-like" bar ever since the first 4-line lei
                      > (before the first ARC).
                      >
                      > > > I like ... light bar load ... but NOT
                      > > > as light as a Sonic, which gives NO feedback for sheeting out
                      > > > in gusts.
                      > >
                      > > You must be riding a different Sonic to me.
                      > > I find it has plenty of feedback.
                      >
                      > I can easily sheet in the Sonic 11 to full power with one hand,
                      even
                      > in moderate winds (& even easier in strong winds which require even
                      > less rear line tension). I'd say it has about half the bar load of
                      > my V13. This means that when a gust suddenly hits, the first thing
                      > I feel is the kite jerking me by the harness. With an ARC the
                      first
                      > thing I feel is an increase in bar pull, & can simply LET it pull
                      > away (straighten my elbows) so I DON'T get yanked by the gust.
                      >
                      >
                      > Mel
                      >
                      I think this is a key point

                      got my first ride in very gusty with a 10pulse yesterday (something
                      like 10 < 20 knts.and wind direction shifting in the raffles)

                      the power seem close to a V16 and bar pressure like 2/3
                      I liked the feeling (no yerking as LEI bows) but still not AUTOMATIC
                      GEAR as venoms. But the kite is fast and you put it easily where you
                      need. Less trimming needed if compared to arcs. No overflying and
                      tips always working fine.

                      Nice thing to fly a small fun kite and very good launching without
                      pre-inflation but bridles are simply crazy (may be worst than pumps)
                      Easy to get water inside if not skilly in relaunch (should test in
                      the waves) ..

                      Any way .. my wondering was about the very close driving feelings and
                      tech of these two ultimate foils. Definitely arcs can help beginners
                      as they do the thing (need trimming instruction any way) and you can
                      ride more passive. With pulse you need a more constant job on the bar
                      and know where the power is (in the window) not immediate for a semi
                      beginner (good thing you hardly get t-bagged just loosing the bar).

                      In steady winds having a stopper may help but nothing is on the
                      market the way I see it.
                      While riding I reminded the old wipika bar with the stop-release
                      thing and thougth it could be tested on these kites to see how it
                      works.

                      Many things will change and lot's of solutions possible
                      Nice to be inside the progress but ..k.. expensive
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