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Re: My feedback on Venom 16 and general observations.

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  • mrfloat05
    What length lines are you using? ... to ... see ... looking ... by ... bit ... autozenith ... G
    Message 1 of 21 , Mar 1, 2005
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      What length lines are you using?



      --- In arcusers@yahoogroups.com, "Giancarlo Avancini" <jankie@b...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Hello all,
      > - My kite is latest production, what I meant is that I would like
      to
      > see the size printed big on the side of the kite so that you can
      see
      > from the beach what people ride... This is general to all kite
      > manufacturer.
      > - I know the sensor at Seal are in MPH and they are also reading
      > high... Both saturday and sunday reading 18 miles with gust over
      > 20!!! absolutely no way...
      > - Consider an average Inflatable kite not the most powerful not the
      > less something in the middle!!! this can at least give you an idea
      > of how they compare... I was hoping for the Venom 16 to be
      > equivalent to my North Vegas 16 but that is not happening..
      > - The auto-clambing on the Venom or autozenith is quite strong!!!!
      > When you walking if you don't keep the kite in one side he goes
      > straight at 12:00. I like this...
      > Bye Jankie
      > www.bali-kitesurfing.org
      > >
      > > > If I can find one defect is that they don't write the size of
      > the
      > > > kite
      > >
      > > Maybe yours is pre-production (or an early production model),
      > because
      > > I've got one partly unrolled on the floor right now, & I'm
      looking
      > > at "V16" imprinted right onto the kite, near the "deflate" text
      by
      > > the center zip.
      > >
      > > > I spent the last 2 days in Seal-Belmont chasing other kiters to
      > try
      > > > to compare.
      > > > The V 16 need 13-14 of REAL knots of wind to have fun on water
      > for
      > > > my weight.
      > >
      > > You know that the Seal ikitesurf.com readings are MILES per hour,
      > > right? Which means it takes 15-16 "real" MILES per hour.
      > >
      > > > This is a small table for comparing low end power to same size
      > > > Inflatable, based on my observation and comments from others
      > rider:
      > > > V 19 = Inflatable 16-17 meter
      > > > V 16 = Inflatable 14
      > > > V 13 = Inflatable 11-11,5
      > > > V 10 = Inflatable 8-9
      > >
      > > Don't different brand/model inflatables have different power for
      > > their size? (in much the same way different ARCs have different
      > > power: B vs P vs V, etc.) In any case it seems that Vs have a
      bit
      > > less low end than the AVERAGE inflatable, but more than the
      > average
      > > ARC.
      > >
      > > > Also the V16 has just a bit better low end power then the
      > Phantom
      > > 18
      > > > (try back to back today) but turn so much faster...
      > >
      > > Cool, thanks. That means I should be able to get as much low end
      > > from a V-10 as my P12.
      > >
      > > > I also notice that
      > > > the Phantom stay where you park it, the Venom has the
      autozenith
      > > > feature on his DNA.
      > >
      > > Thanks for reporting that, because I generally prefer Phantom-
      > > style "auto-pilot", however in the winds I ride (lighter with any
      > > given kite, since I'm only about 58kg) the auto-zenith of a B or
      G
      > (1
      > > or 2) isn't all that strong anyway (not like the somewhat
      > irritating
      > > old S "auto-climb").
      > >
      > >
      > > Mel
    • redonxtc
      ... Its still too small. It would be much more useful down near the spars and in a bigger font. I was looking at a 10, 13, 16 down at the beach over the
      Message 2 of 21 , Mar 1, 2005
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        --- In arcusers@yahoogroups.com, "kiteboard2000" <kiteboarder@p...>
        > Maybe yours is pre-production (or an early production model), because
        > I've got one partly unrolled on the floor right now, & I'm looking
        > at "V16" imprinted right onto the kite, near the "deflate" text by
        > the center zip.

        Its still too small. It would be much more useful down near the spars
        and in a bigger font. I was looking at a 10, 13, 16 down at the beach
        over the weekend all the same colour and in the air it was very
        difficult to pick the difference between the 10 and 13; and the 13 and 16.

        But thats a minor gripe for what flew like an awesome kite.
      • Giancarlo Avancini
        Ciao all, V16.. Using 25 meters line bar 58 cm! Today better wind 14 knots and nicely powered up. Definitly low end power better then Phantom 18 turns also
        Message 3 of 21 , Mar 1, 2005
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          Ciao all,
          V16..
          Using 25 meters line bar 58 cm!
          Today better wind 14 knots and nicely powered up.
          Definitly low end power better then Phantom 18 turns also hips
          better.
          I don't know about top end but today people riding 12 meter
          inflatable and I was nicely powered up on the 16 V, actually waiting
          for some gust for jumping.
          Bye Jankie
          www.bali-kitesurfing.org


          > Its still too small. It would be much more useful down near the
          spars
          > and in a bigger font. I was looking at a 10, 13, 16 down at the
          beach
          > over the weekend all the same colour and in the air it was very
          > difficult to pick the difference between the 10 and 13; and the 13
          and 16.
          >
          > But thats a minor gripe for what flew like an awesome kite.
        • mrfloat05
          I suspected so My advice to the USA is USE LONGER LINES AND SMALLER BARS!!!!!These kites will not perform on 25m unless its windy.Yes I know LEI s have good
          Message 4 of 21 , Mar 2, 2005
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            I suspected so My advice to the
            USA is USE LONGER LINES AND SMALLER BARS!!!!!These kites will not
            perform on 25m unless its windy.Yes I know LEI's have good power on
            short lines and low airspeeds, venomS don't.I'll say it again just in
            case every one over there didn't quite hear Use LONGER LINES

            All the best

            Lach

            PS I know we think that light winds are actually moderate winds in
            the rest of the world supposedly but at our demo day in Sydney on Sun
            we were out on 19 's with at least 27 m lines and mostly 50 cm
            bars .8-12 kts ave behind a reef
            on the ocean.Best reults also were with mutants.(flat rocker not
            firebirds)
            All the big light wind specialty kites were there BFK.Contra ,Venoms
            more than held their own in the light stuff(In fact the Contra
            reminded me of a 1410 in flight,bloody slow).Also crank that internal
            leach right up.I also added 5 m additions with excellent reults
            frontside transitions,triple back trans with kite loops .Well powered
            at the stop and edged HARD.Jarman struggled on his 120 Tray also
            rides with quite loose backs .Used to more wind ,
            his le
            gs were killing due to the hard edging on my mutant.

            --- In arcusers@yahoogroups.com, "Giancarlo Avancini" <jankie@b...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Ciao all,
            > V16..
            > Using 25 meters line bar 58 cm!
            > Today better wind 14 knots and nicely powered up.
            > Definitly low end power better then Phantom 18 turns also hips
            > better.
            > I don't know about top end but today people riding 12 meter
            > inflatable and I was nicely powered up on the 16 V, actually
            waiting
            > for some gust for jumping.
            > Bye Jankie
            > www.bali-kitesurfing.org
            >
            >
            > > Its still too small. It would be much more useful down near the
            > spars
            > > and in a bigger font. I was looking at a 10, 13, 16 down at the
            > beach
            > > over the weekend all the same colour and in the air it was very
            > > difficult to pick the difference between the 10 and 13; and the
            13
            > and 16.
            > >
            > > But thats a minor gripe for what flew like an awesome kite.
          • jakobjth
            Are the venoms delivered with 25m lines instead of 27m in the RTF option? I also wonder if anybody got experience using the phantom18 on 20m lines? How does it
            Message 5 of 21 , Mar 2, 2005
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              Are the venoms delivered with 25m lines instead of 27m in the RTF
              option?

              I also wonder if anybody got experience using the phantom18 on 20m
              lines? How does it affect the flight caracteristics and top end of
              the kite?

              /Jakob


              --- In arcusers@yahoogroups.com, "mrfloat05" <mrfloat05@y...> wrote:
              >
              > I suspected so My advice to the
              > USA is USE LONGER LINES AND SMALLER BARS!!!!!These kites will not
              > perform on 25m unless its windy.Yes I know LEI's have good power on
              > short lines and low airspeeds, venomS don't.I'll say it again just
              in
              > case every one over there didn't quite hear Use LONGER LINES
              >
              > All the best
              >
              > Lach
              >
              > PS I know we think that light winds are actually moderate winds in
              > the rest of the world supposedly but at our demo day in Sydney on
              Sun
              > we were out on 19 's with at least 27 m lines and mostly 50 cm
              > bars .8-12 kts ave behind a reef
              > on the ocean.Best reults also were with mutants.(flat rocker not
              > firebirds)
              > All the big light wind specialty kites were there
              BFK.Contra ,Venoms
              > more than held their own in the light stuff(In fact the Contra
              > reminded me of a 1410 in flight,bloody slow).Also crank that
              internal
              > leach right up.I also added 5 m additions with excellent reults
              > frontside transitions,triple back trans with kite loops .Well
              powered
              > at the stop and edged HARD.Jarman struggled on his 120 Tray also
              > rides with quite loose backs .Used to more wind ,
              > his le
              > gs were killing due to the hard edging on my mutant.
              >
              > --- In arcusers@yahoogroups.com, "Giancarlo Avancini" <jankie@b...>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > Ciao all,
              > > V16..
              > > Using 25 meters line bar 58 cm!
              > > Today better wind 14 knots and nicely powered up.
              > > Definitly low end power better then Phantom 18 turns also hips
              > > better.
              > > I don't know about top end but today people riding 12 meter
              > > inflatable and I was nicely powered up on the 16 V, actually
              > waiting
              > > for some gust for jumping.
              > > Bye Jankie
              > > www.bali-kitesurfing.org
              > >
              > >
              > > > Its still too small. It would be much more useful down near the
              > > spars
              > > > and in a bigger font. I was looking at a 10, 13, 16 down at the
              > > beach
              > > > over the weekend all the same colour and in the air it was very
              > > > difficult to pick the difference between the 10 and 13; and the
              > 13
              > > and 16.
              > > >
              > > > But thats a minor gripe for what flew like an awesome kite.
            • woodman_k
              Lach On the Phantom 12 I am using 27m lines. How much longer have you tried and was it worth it? I just want some more low end as I have not found the topend
              Message 6 of 21 , Mar 2, 2005
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                Lach
                On the Phantom 12 I am using 27m lines. How much longer have you tried
                and was it worth it? I just want some more low end as I have not found
                the topend yet on that kite!
                I have played around with 45m on really light days on some lei's but
                not tried on my P12 yet but plan on it this weekend......snowboard.

                Cheers
                Stan
              • mrfloat05
                Hi 27 m at least(this is what they are supplied with )I am not advocating that they must be flown on longer than 27 m to get any performance at all in the
                Message 7 of 21 , Mar 2, 2005
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                  Hi

                  27 m at least(this is what they are supplied with )I am not
                  advocating that they must be flown on longer than 27 m to get any
                  performance at all in the bottom end but 25 m or less is not enough
                  for good bottom end)The Venom has heaps more grunt than the Phantom.
                  On Sun I had 5 m extensions the other guys had 27 m i had a bit more
                  power but they were still going quite well.
                  If you wanta bit more power stroke with your phantom go for 5 m
                  extensions with max 10. 45 m is too long and the there is too much
                  line drag and the kite is too slow to get any advantage.

                  All the best

                  lach

                  --- In arcusers@yahoogroups.com, "woodman_k" <woodman_k@y...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Lach
                  > On the Phantom 12 I am using 27m lines. How much longer have you
                  tried
                  > and was it worth it? I just want some more low end as I have not
                  found
                  > the topend yet on that kite!
                  > I have played around with 45m on really light days on some lei's but
                  > not tried on my P12 yet but plan on it this weekend......snowboard.
                  >
                  > Cheers
                  > Stan
                • spence_com
                  Hey Lach, Tried emailing you but seem to be having troubles getting through. Thanks to you and the guys for coming down to Sydney last weekend. It was
                  Message 8 of 21 , Mar 2, 2005
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                    Hey Lach,

                    Tried emailing you but seem to be having troubles getting through.

                    Thanks to you and the guys for coming down to Sydney last weekend. It
                    was excellent seeing arcs outnumber tubes on the water for a change.

                    Thanks for the help with the V19 as well.

                    I've been interested in the mutant that you have. I didn't get a go
                    but I'm keen to hear more about it. My bi-directional doesn't have
                    edges for when the wind picks up. How does your mutant ride?

                    Thanks,
                    Victor


                    --- In arcusers@yahoogroups.com, "mrfloat05" <mrfloat05@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi
                    >
                    > 27 m at least(this is what they are supplied with )I am not
                    > advocating that they must be flown on longer than 27 m to get any
                    > performance at all in the bottom end but 25 m or less is not enough
                    > for good bottom end)The Venom has heaps more grunt than the Phantom.
                    > On Sun I had 5 m extensions the other guys had 27 m i had a bit
                    more
                    > power but they were still going quite well.
                    > If you wanta bit more power stroke with your phantom go for 5 m
                    > extensions with max 10. 45 m is too long and the there is too much
                    > line drag and the kite is too slow to get any advantage.
                    >
                    > All the best
                    >
                    > lach
                    >
                    > --- In arcusers@yahoogroups.com, "woodman_k" <woodman_k@y...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Lach
                    > > On the Phantom 12 I am using 27m lines. How much longer have you
                    > tried
                    > > and was it worth it? I just want some more low end as I have not
                    > found
                    > > the topend yet on that kite!
                    > > I have played around with 45m on really light days on some lei's
                    but
                    > > not tried on my P12 yet but plan on it this
                    weekend......snowboard.
                    > >
                    > > Cheers
                    > > Stan
                  • kiteboard2000
                    ... see ... That WOULD be kind of cool, at least for normal weight riders at popular beaches, however it wouldn t help if you came to my beach & out of the
                    Message 9 of 21 , Mar 2, 2005
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                      "Giancarlo Avancini" wrote:

                      > what I meant is that I would like to
                      > see the size printed big on the side of the kite so that you can
                      see
                      > from the beach what people ride... This is general to all kite
                      > manufacturer.

                      That WOULD be kind of cool, at least for normal weight riders at
                      popular beaches, however it wouldn't help if you came to my beach &
                      out of the total of 4 riders crazy enough to join me the only kite
                      out there with a big enough number to read was my V10! (when I get
                      one) You see, I'm under 60 kg, so you'd need to be on a 13, & could
                      likely hang onto a 16 even if I'm powered-up, or a 19 if I was barely
                      going.

                      > - Consider an average Inflatable kite not the most powerful not the
                      > less something in the middle!!! this can at least give you an idea
                      > of how they compare... I was hoping for the Venom 16 to be
                      > equivalent to my North Vegas 16 but that is not happening..

                      Okay. Thanks for clarifying. After reading the other replies maybe
                      the Venom would be closer to the Vegas on longer lines.

                      > - The auto-clambing on the Venom or autozenith is quite strong!!!!
                      > When you walking if you don't keep the kite in one side he goes
                      > straight at 12:00. I like this...

                      Can you or anybody else here give me an auto-zenith comparison
                      between the Venom & a B or G2?


                      Mel
                    • doofusdog2003
                      ... i don t think there is much if any auto zenith in a V, same as a G Once chatted to the designer of the Bomba about it and he said they don t really design
                      Message 10 of 21 , Mar 2, 2005
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                        > Can you or anybody else here give me an auto-zenith comparison
                        > between the Venom & a B or G2?

                        i don't think there is much if any auto zenith in a V, same as a G

                        Once chatted to the designer of the Bomba about it and he said they
                        don't really design it in, it just happens to be stronger for low
                        aspect kites and less for higher aspect ones.

                        Craig
                      • kiteboarderkev
                        ... mel take a look at the video ive put the auto zennith on there kev
                        Message 11 of 21 , Mar 2, 2005
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                          --- In arcusers@yahoogroups.com, "kiteboard2000" <kiteboarder@p...>
                          wrote:
                          >

                          >
                          > Can you or anybody else here give me an auto-zenith comparison
                          > between the Venom & a B or G2?
                          >
                          >
                          > Mel

                          mel

                          take a look at the video ive put the auto zennith on there

                          kev
                        • kiteboard2000
                          ... I tried, but I can t seem to find it at your original temporary location of http://209.245.59.189/Gimme/65532757/93718393/53893872/B20C1894-4999-
                          Message 12 of 21 , Mar 3, 2005
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                            "kiteboarderkev" <kiteboarderkev@a...> wrote:

                            > take a look at the video ive put the auto zennith on there

                            I tried, but I can't seem to find it at your original "temporary"
                            location of
                            http://209.245.59.189/Gimme/65532757/93718393/53893872/B20C1894-4999-
                            48C5-B049-F6C27CF79824/0.82432/3/lligwy.mpg

                            Or at foilzone.com


                            Mel
                          • kiteboarderkev
                            ... 4999- ... on foilzone goto forum then video section
                            Message 13 of 21 , Mar 3, 2005
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                              --- In arcusers@yahoogroups.com, "kiteboard2000" <kiteboarder@p...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > "kiteboarderkev" <kiteboarderkev@a...> wrote:
                              >
                              > > take a look at the video ive put the auto zennith on there
                              >
                              > I tried, but I can't seem to find it at your original "temporary"
                              > location of
                              > http://209.245.59.189/Gimme/65532757/93718393/53893872/B20C1894-
                              4999-
                              > 48C5-B049-F6C27CF79824/0.82432/3/lligwy.mpg
                              >
                              > Or at foilzone.com
                              >
                              >
                              > Mel

                              on foilzone goto forum then video section
                            • kiteboard2000
                              ... Well I seem to remember the G2 I tested for a while had somewhat stronger auto-zenith than my P (which has nearly none - just stays where it is, more of an
                              Message 14 of 21 , Mar 3, 2005
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                                "doofusdog2003" <craig_knights@h...> wrote:

                                > i don't think there is much if any auto zenith in a V, same as a G

                                Well I seem to remember the G2 I tested for a while had somewhat
                                stronger auto-zenith than my P (which has nearly none - just stays
                                where it is, more of an auto-PILOT), but then "Giancarlo Avancini"
                                wrote: "The auto-climbing on the Venom or autozenith is quite
                                strong!!!! When you're walking if you don't keep the kite in one side
                                it goes straight to 12:00", & I think somebody else said it was
                                stronger, or maybe about the same as a B, which is stronger than a G
                                or P.

                                In any case, even the strong-ish climbing tendency of the B doesn't
                                bother me, so if it's like a G2 I'll like it (but would still prefer
                                it to be like my P.

                                > Once chatted to the designer of the Bomba about it and he said they
                                > don't really design it in, it just happens to be stronger for low
                                > aspect kites and less for higher aspect ones.

                                That's what I thought, & totally makes sense, with the B climbing
                                stronger then the G2, which itself climbs a bit stronger than the P,
                                HOWEVER, the V is lower aspect than the P, or even G2 (I think*), so
                                if it's simply AR dependent the V should have more auto-zenith, right?

                                *I don't have my spec sheet here with ARs calculated from the span &
                                area specs, which are actually different from the AR specs.

                                Mel
                              • kiteboard2000
                                ... Got it. Thanks. The first (failed) time I went from foilzone directly to their video section. Mel
                                Message 15 of 21 , Mar 3, 2005
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                                  "kiteboarderkev" <kiteboarderkev@a...> wrote:

                                  > on foilzone goto forum then video section

                                  Got it. Thanks. The first (failed) time I went from foilzone
                                  directly to their video section.


                                  Mel
                                • ichiman1
                                  Lach... thanks for the demos and all the great advice in Cronulla last weekend! May the winds be with you. Richard
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Mar 4, 2005
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                                    Lach... thanks for the demos and all the great advice in Cronulla
                                    last weekend! May the winds be with you.

                                    Richard
                                  • sthcloutier
                                    Check out this video with some V s, P s and special guest G s... Nice little flick, but it s a massive download 40 minute run time.
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Jul 7, 2006
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                                      Check out this video with some V's, P's and special guest G's...
                                      Nice little flick, but it's a massive download 40 minute run time.


                                      http://www.kiteforum.tv/storage/videos/dd4d882006_06_Onetrip_full.mpeg
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