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I just joined (James Rawlinson from England. Spent a year at Arcosanti in 1998)

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  • jamesrollingstone
    Be great to hear from anyone from that time. I m currently studying for a Masters degree in Design Futures at Goldsmiths College in London. I m focusing on
    Message 1 of 14 , Nov 5, 2007
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      Be great to hear from anyone from that time. I'm currently studying
      for a Masters degree in 'Design Futures' at Goldsmiths College in
      London. I'm focusing on industrial design which is the subject I
      studied as an intern at Arcosanti.

      If anyone is interested I have ceated a new word: "Ogletchony". It
      describes the skill of sifting through all the technologies available
      to us and deciding on what is useful to us. I felt the need for a new
      word because 'technology' has become such a generic term for anything
      new and complex. We need to recapture the original sense of the word
      and re-learn the skill of applying science.'Og'is a welsh word
      describing the cultivation of soil, 'letch' implies a promiscuous lack
      of restraint.
    • jeff buderer
      Hi James. I am not sure if you were there when I took my workshop but I remember a James who worked in Construction who was from the UK. I d like to hear more
      Message 2 of 14 , Nov 7, 2007
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        Hi James.

        I am not sure if you were there when I took my workshop but I remember a
        James who worked in Construction who was from the UK.

        I'd like to hear more about your work.

        Also I suggest we consider inviting people to come together and work on
        a Arcology wiki to bring together the various ideas that Soleri has put
        forward but not simply to regurgitate his ideas and thinking but to
        consider our creative abilities in the process as you have done below
        and also our experiences at Arcosanti dealing with the conflict between
        theory and practice and the barriers to the effective dissemination of
        the Arcology vision.

        Jeff

        jamesrollingstone wrote:
        >
        > Be great to hear from anyone from that time. I'm currently studying
        > for a Masters degree in 'Design Futures' at Goldsmiths College in
        > London. I'm focusing on industrial design which is the subject I
        > studied as an intern at Arcosanti.
        >
        > If anyone is interested I have ceated a new word: "Ogletchony" . It
        > describes the skill of sifting through all the technologies available
        > to us and deciding on what is useful to us. I felt the need for a new
        > word because 'technology' has become such a generic term for anything
        > new and complex. We need to recapture the original sense of the word
        > and re-learn the skill of applying science.'Og' is a welsh word
        > describing the cultivation of soil, 'letch' implies a promiscuous lack
        > of restraint.
        >
        >
      • James Rawlinson
        Hi Jeff, I remember your name, I think your first month coincided with my last. How long did you end up staying, or indeed are you still there? Great Idea
        Message 3 of 14 , Nov 14, 2007
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          Hi Jeff,
          I remember your name, I think your first month
          coincided with my last. How long did you end up
          staying, or indeed are you still there? Great Idea
          about the Wiki. With regard to ecology, sustainability
          etc..., things have changed so much over the last ten
          years since I was at Arcosanti. There is definitely
          much more willingness amongst mainstream commerce to
          consider 'alternative' notions. I'm interested in
          ideas around 'socialising capitalism'. As a graduate
          in product design, my emphasis is still on that, but I
          think every kind of designer will need to be more
          holistic and systemic. My masters is a text based
          course with a great deal of emphasis on meta-design. I
          would be interested to hear what your experience was
          like at Arcosanti and where it led you.
          Best Regards
          James
          --- jeff buderer <jeff@...>
          wrote:

          > Hi James.
          >
          > I am not sure if you were there when I took my
          > workshop but I remember a
          > James who worked in Construction who was from the
          > UK.
          >
          > I'd like to hear more about your work.
          >
          > Also I suggest we consider inviting people to come
          > together and work on
          > a Arcology wiki to bring together the various ideas
          > that Soleri has put
          > forward but not simply to regurgitate his ideas and
          > thinking but to
          > consider our creative abilities in the process as
          > you have done below
          > and also our experiences at Arcosanti dealing with
          > the conflict between
          > theory and practice and the barriers to the
          > effective dissemination of
          > the Arcology vision.
          >
          > Jeff
          >
          > jamesrollingstone wrote:
          > >
          > > Be great to hear from anyone from that time. I'm
          > currently studying
          > > for a Masters degree in 'Design Futures' at
          > Goldsmiths College in
          > > London. I'm focusing on industrial design which is
          > the subject I
          > > studied as an intern at Arcosanti.
          > >
          > > If anyone is interested I have ceated a new word:
          > "Ogletchony" . It
          > > describes the skill of sifting through all the
          > technologies available
          > > to us and deciding on what is useful to us. I felt
          > the need for a new
          > > word because 'technology' has become such a
          > generic term for anything
          > > new and complex. We need to recapture the original
          > sense of the word
          > > and re-learn the skill of applying science.'Og' is
          > a welsh word
          > > describing the cultivation of soil, 'letch'
          > implies a promiscuous lack
          > > of restraint.
          > >
          > >
          >
          >



          ___________________________________________________________
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        • jeff buderer
          James, ... Yes I remember now. ... I stayed there for about 2-3 years. until 03. ... Yes alot of the credit for that on the practical level at Arcosanti is due
          Message 4 of 14 , Nov 20, 2007
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            James,
            >
            >
            > I remember your name, I think your first month
            > coincided with my last.
            >
            Yes I remember now.
            >
            > How long did you end up staying, or indeed are you still there?
            >
            I stayed there for about 2-3 years. until 03.

            > Great Idea
            > about the Wiki. With regard to ecology, sustainability
            > etc..., things have changed so much over the last ten
            > years since I was at Arcosanti.
            >
            Yes alot of the credit for that on the practical level at Arcosanti is
            due I think to Scott Riley
            >
            > There is definitely
            > much more willingness amongst mainstream commerce to
            > consider 'alternative' notions.
            >
            Yes and I dont think the true potential of Arcosanti is yet been
            realized in this process.

            I think the wiki could help transition Arcology as an way of thinking
            that could lead to the redesign of cities.

            > I'm interested in ideas around 'socialising capitalism'. As a graduate
            > in product design, my emphasis is still on that, but I
            > think every kind of designer will need to be more
            > holistic and systemic. My masters is a text based
            > course with a great deal of emphasis on meta-design.
            >
            Very interesting. That fits with how I see the wiki as needing to do -
            put forward Arcology in a way that is more broad scoped in terms of
            giving people tools to develop alternative models. However I do not
            advocate the actual construction of the specific designs Paolo has done.
            While I consider them as a form of art I dont feel that Paolo's graphic
            notion of a sustainable built environment realistic. Much of this is
            because I dont see sustainable design as a top down process as is
            implied with the design of his Arcologies or with what the Chinese are
            doing. I think have to create the meta-infrastructure for local
            neighborhood development within an Arcology framework and I dont see
            much sign of this in Paolo's designs. So I guess what I am saying is I
            see most of his influence in my life in relation to the perspective and
            philosophy he gives which might be useful in terms of working with
            people to design sustainable built environments.

            > would be interested to hear what your experience was
            > like at Arcosanti and where it led you.
            >
            It was as I think it is form many a chance to consider what a
            sustainable city/habitat might look like and consider the current
            distance between our vision of sustainability and our everyday lives and
            how to bridge that gap. In particular of the need to develop integrated
            approaches to managing the interface between human and ecological system
            first and foremost at the community/neighborhood level.

            The Paradox Arcosanti link led to the Bay Area. Many of the Paradox
            folks were countercultural oriented silicon valley types and several
            have gone on to do interesting things. Michael Gosney one of the Paradox
            Conveners is still doing the Digital Be-Ins in SF; Jim Fournier went on
            to do a series of Planetwork conferences which was designed along
            similar lines to Paradox and is now involved in Biomass Gasification.

            It has led me to promote a more integrated approach to development.
            Indeed we often see sustainability in developed world mindset not seeing
            that India and China the way they are going will be deciding factors in
            whether we are able to move to a best case scenario for humanity or
            whether we stay in default mode.

            Jeff

            > Best Regards
            > James
            > --- jeff buderer <jeff@onevillagefoun dation.org
            > <mailto:jeff%40onevillagefoundation.org>>
            > wrote:
            >
            > > Hi James.
            > >
            > > I am not sure if you were there when I took my
            > > workshop but I remember a
            > > James who worked in Construction who was from the
            > > UK.
            > >
            > > I'd like to hear more about your work.
            > >
            > > Also I suggest we consider inviting people to come
            > > together and work on
            > > a Arcology wiki to bring together the various ideas
            > > that Soleri has put
            > > forward but not simply to regurgitate his ideas and
            > > thinking but to
            > > consider our creative abilities in the process as
            > > you have done below
            > > and also our experiences at Arcosanti dealing with
            > > the conflict between
            > > theory and practice and the barriers to the
            > > effective dissemination of
            > > the Arcology vision.
            > >
            > > Jeff
            > >
            > > jamesrollingstone wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Be great to hear from anyone from that time. I'm
            > > currently studying
            > > > for a Masters degree in 'Design Futures' at
            > > Goldsmiths College in
            > > > London. I'm focusing on industrial design which is
            > > the subject I
            > > > studied as an intern at Arcosanti.
            > > >
            > > > If anyone is interested I have ceated a new word:
            > > "Ogletchony" . It
            > > > describes the skill of sifting through all the
            > > technologies available
            > > > to us and deciding on what is useful to us. I felt
            > > the need for a new
            > > > word because 'technology' has become such a
            > > generic term for anything
            > > > new and complex. We need to recapture the original
            > > sense of the word
            > > > and re-learn the skill of applying science.'Og' is
            > > a welsh word
            > > > describing the cultivation of soil, 'letch'
            > > implies a promiscuous lack
            > > > of restraint.
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
            > Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? Visit Yahoo! For Good
            > http://uk.promotion s.yahoo.com/ forgood/environm ent.html
            > <http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/environment.html>
            >
            >
          • Franz Nahrada
            ... One person who did that is Richard Levine who created City-as-a-Hill concepts that are flexible and modular. He lived for many months in italian
            Message 5 of 14 , Nov 20, 2007
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              jeff buderer writes:

              >However I do not
              >advocate the actual construction of the specific designs Paolo has done.
              >While I consider them as a form of art I dont feel that Paolo's graphic
              >notion of a sustainable built environment realistic. Much of this is
              >because I dont see sustainable design as a top down process as is
              >implied with the design of his Arcologies or with what the Chinese are
              >doing. I think have to create the meta-infrastructure for local
              >neighborhood development within an Arcology framework

              One person who did that is Richard Levine who created "City-as-a-Hill"
              concepts that are flexible and modular. He lived for many months in
              italian hilltowns and studied how the community had adopted the built
              environment over decades. So his wish is to replicate this in built three
              dimensional structures that follow laws of arcology. He has been recently
              active in China. Would be good to include his ideas.

              http://www.terrain.org/articles/13/strategy.htm

              We tried to link these "meta-arcology-thinkers" together at our Global
              Village conferences in Vienna in the nineties allready.

              Franz
            • jeff buderer
              Franz, Thanks I am familiar with the general concept design although I saw it marketed and rendered in a slightly different way by another architect. So in all
              Message 6 of 14 , Nov 21, 2007
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                Franz,

                Thanks I am familiar with the general concept design although I saw it
                marketed and rendered in a slightly different way by another architect.

                So in all these discussions was there any serious discussion on how to
                get the resources to actually build these structures?

                I think that is what is sorely lacking in many of these discussions; the
                connection of the practical with the ideal and that is one reason why we
                are still talking about building Arcology type or themed projects.

                Jeff

                Nahrada wrote:
                >
                > jeff buderer writes:
                >
                > >However I do not
                > >advocate the actual construction of the specific designs Paolo has done.
                > >While I consider them as a form of art I dont feel that Paolo's graphic
                > >notion of a sustainable built environment realistic. Much of this is
                > >because I dont see sustainable design as a top down process as is
                > >implied with the design of his Arcologies or with what the Chinese are
                > >doing. I think have to create the meta-infrastructure for local
                > >neighborhood development within an Arcology framework
                >
                > One person who did that is Richard Levine who created "City-as-a-Hill"
                > concepts that are flexible and modular. He lived for many months in
                > italian hilltowns and studied how the community had adopted the built
                > environment over decades. So his wish is to replicate this in built three
                > dimensional structures that follow laws of arcology. He has been recently
                > active in China. Would be good to include his ideas.
                >
                > http://www.terrain org/articles/ 13/strategy. htm
                > <http://www.terrain.org/articles/13/strategy.htm>
                >
                > We tried to link these "meta-arcology- thinkers" together at our Global
                > Village conferences in Vienna in the nineties allready.
                >
                > Franz
                >
                >
              • Franz Nahrada
                ... Actually the team of Levine and Heidi Dumreicher bid for the urban implant in Viennas Westbahnhof area. There was some support by public authorities, but
                Message 7 of 14 , Nov 21, 2007
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                  arcology@yahoogroups.com writes:
                  >So in all these discussions was there any serious discussion on how to
                  >get the resources to actually build these structures?

                  Actually the team of Levine and Heidi Dumreicher bid for the "urban
                  implant" in Viennas Westbahnhof area. There was some support by public
                  authorities, but not enough openness and grassroots mobilisation of the
                  population and the experts.

                  Now they are trying to work with China, suggesting sustainable Design
                  soluitions for rural areas.

                  I think arcologies can only be built on the base of public building,
                  simply not believing that private developers can embrace the complexity of
                  the issue and I wonder if there was any systematic attempt to talk to
                  municipalities or other authorities about that.

                  Vienna would be a great place to try and there is still money - , but
                  Paolo never did try to build a bridge. We have probably the best "next to
                  Arcology" building in the world, the Wohnpark Alt-Erlaa, and its a great
                  proof of concept, but for me it seems that nobody in the arcology movement
                  ever cared.

                  Franz
                • jeff buderer
                  Franz, I think an Arcology themed project can be financed but not in the conventional way. I think whats needed is the right approach and a real and consistent
                  Message 8 of 14 , Nov 22, 2007
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                    Franz,

                    I think an Arcology themed project can be financed but not in the
                    conventional way.

                    I think whats needed is the right approach and a real and consistent
                    effort to make it happen. I have not seen this yet.

                    Vienna is one of the world's great cities so definitely that's worth
                    considering.

                    My own view is that rural development starting out is more realistic
                    because there are less regulations and land prices are much cheaper.

                    By the way...Green Century Institute has the Califia Sketchbook
                    http://www.greencenturyinstitute.org/sketchbook/tellmemore.php Contest
                    which dovetails with next years EcoCities 08 Summit
                    (http://www.ecocityworldsummit.org/index.htm) in SF (winners of the
                    contest will be featured at the 2008 conference). The Califia Project is
                    envisioned as Arcology themed development to house 15000 people within
                    30 minutes of downtown SF.

                    Jeff


                    > oups.com <mailto:arcology%40yahoogroups.com> writes:
                    > >So in all these discussions was there any serious discussion on how to
                    > >get the resources to actually build these structures?
                    >
                    > Actually the team of Levine and Heidi Dumreicher bid for the "urban
                    > implant" in Viennas Westbahnhof area. There was some support by public
                    > authorities, but not enough openness and grassroots mobilisation of the
                    > population and the experts.
                    >
                    > Now they are trying to work with China, suggesting sustainable Design
                    > soluitions for rural areas.
                    >
                    > I think arcologies can only be built on the base of public building,
                    > simply not believing that private developers can embrace the complexity of
                    > the issue and I wonder if there was any systematic attempt to talk to
                    > municipalities or other authorities about that.
                    >
                    > Vienna would be a great place to try and there is still money - , but
                    > Paolo never did try to build a bridge. We have probably the best "next to
                    > Arcology" building in the world, the Wohnpark Alt-Erlaa, and its a great
                    > proof of concept, but for me it seems that nobody in the arcology movement
                    > ever cared.
                    >
                    > Franz
                    >
                    >
                  • rookzero
                    I don t agree. I suspect that the only way arcologies will be built is if they become economically viable. Government construction or funding raises more
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jan 14, 2008
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                      I don't agree. I suspect that the only way arcologies will be built
                      is if they become economically viable. Government construction or
                      funding raises more problems than it solves.


                      --- In arcology@yahoogroups.com, "Franz Nahrada" <f.nahrada@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > arcology@yahoogroups.com writes:
                      > >So in all these discussions was there any serious discussion on how to
                      > >get the resources to actually build these structures?
                      >
                      > Actually the team of Levine and Heidi Dumreicher bid for the "urban
                      > implant" in Viennas Westbahnhof area. There was some support by public
                      > authorities, but not enough openness and grassroots mobilisation of the
                      > population and the experts.
                      >
                      > Now they are trying to work with China, suggesting sustainable Design
                      > soluitions for rural areas.
                      >
                      > I think arcologies can only be built on the base of public building,
                      > simply not believing that private developers can embrace the
                      complexity of
                      > the issue and I wonder if there was any systematic attempt to talk to
                      > municipalities or other authorities about that.
                      >
                      > Vienna would be a great place to try and there is still money - , but
                      > Paolo never did try to build a bridge. We have probably the best
                      "next to
                      > Arcology" building in the world, the Wohnpark Alt-Erlaa, and its a great
                      > proof of concept, but for me it seems that nobody in the arcology
                      movement
                      > ever cared.
                      >
                      > Franz
                      >
                    • rhkratzse@aol.com
                      Rook, where are you? Is this an example of the difference between European and North American approaches to urban development? Ralph ... ************** Start
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jan 14, 2008
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                        Rook, where are you?

                        Is this an example of the difference between European and North American approaches to urban development?

                        Ralph


                        In a message dated 1/14/08 6:43:41 PM, rook_zero@... writes:
                        I don't agree. I suspect that the only way arcologies will be built
                        is if they become economically viable. Government construction or
                        funding raises more problems than it solves.

                        --- In
                        arcology@yahoogrouparcol, "Franz Nahrada" <f.nahrada@.f.> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        arcology@yahoogrouparcol writes:
                        > >So in all these discussions was there any serious discussion on how to
                        > >get the resources to actually build these structures?
                        >
                        > Actually the team of Levine and Heidi Dumreicher bid for the "urban
                        > implant" in Viennas Westbahnhof area. There was some support by public
                        > authorities, but not enough openness and grassroots mobilisation of the
                        > population and the experts.
                        >
                        > Now they are trying to work with China, suggesting sustainable Design
                        > soluitions for rural areas.
                        >
                        > I think arcologies can only be built on the base of public building,
                        > simply not believing that private developers can embrace the
                        complexity of
                        > the issue and I wonder if there was any systematic attempt to talk to
                        > municipalities or other authorities about that.
                        >
                        > Vienna would be a great place to try and there is still money - , but
                        > Paolo never did try to build a bridge. We have probably the best
                        "next to
                        > Arcology" building in the world, the Wohnpark Alt-Erlaa, and its a great
                        > proof of concept, but for me it seems that nobody in the arcology
                        movement
                        > ever cared.
                        >
                        > Franz



                        **************
                        Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
                        http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
                      • Kevin Burgess
                        Many of us cared, although general public relations(news magazines) of Wohnpark Alt-Erlaa was very poor... Therefore many of us did not learn of it for years.
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jan 16, 2008
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                          Many of us cared, although general public relations(news magazines)
                          of Wohnpark Alt-Erlaa was very poor... Therefore many of us did not
                          learn of it for years. It has DEFINATELY been the best commercial
                          proof of concept to date. Those parks are still a ways from
                          commercial shopping, or professional offices.
                          Arcologies are more oriented to ecological responsibilty as well,
                          and the structures more organic in Paolo's ideals. Just the same I
                          loved der Wohnpark Alt-Erlaa.

                          However, nothing like that has been done as well since. In a world
                          which has more than twice the population since Arcosanti was
                          conceived, we need arcological solutions more than ever.

                          What I think we need are Developers or Venture Capitalists who
                          can finance the foundations, and encourage metropolitan
                          participation in arcology solutions.



                          --- In arcology@yahoogroups.com, "Franz Nahrada" <f.nahrada@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > arcology@yahoogroups.com writes:
                          > >So in all these discussions was there any serious discussion on
                          how to
                          > >get the resources to actually build these structures?
                          >
                          > Actually the team of Levine and Heidi Dumreicher bid for the "urban
                          > implant" in Viennas Westbahnhof area. There was some support by
                          public
                          > authorities, but not enough openness and grassroots mobilisation
                          of the
                          > population and the experts.
                          >
                          > Now they are trying to work with China, suggesting sustainable
                          Design
                          > soluitions for rural areas.
                          >
                          > I think arcologies can only be built on the base of public
                          building,
                          > simply not believing that private developers can embrace the
                          complexity of
                          > the issue and I wonder if there was any systematic attempt to talk
                          to
                          > municipalities or other authorities about that.
                          >
                          > Vienna would be a great place to try and there is still money - ,
                          but
                          > Paolo never did try to build a bridge. We have probably the
                          best "next to
                          > Arcology" building in the world, the Wohnpark Alt-Erlaa, and its a
                          great
                          > proof of concept, but for me it seems that nobody in the arcology
                          movement
                          > ever cared.
                          >
                          > Franz
                          >
                        • Franz Nahrada
                          ... Kevin, thanks for responding positively! Here is a site in German that shows some features. Alt Erlaa has the highest participation and satisfaction of all
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jan 17, 2008
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                            arcology@yahoogroups.com writes:
                            >Many of us cared, although general public relations(news magazines)
                            >of Wohnpark Alt-Erlaa was very poor... Therefore many of us did not
                            >learn of it for years. It has DEFINATELY been the best commercial
                            >proof of concept to date. Those parks are still a ways from
                            >commercial shopping, or professional offices.
                            > Arcologies are more oriented to ecological responsibilty as well,
                            >and the structures more organic in Paolo's ideals. Just the same I
                            >loved der Wohnpark Alt-Erlaa.
                            >
                            >However, nothing like that has been done as well since. In a world
                            >which has more than twice the population since Arcosanti was
                            >conceived, we need arcological solutions more than ever.
                            >
                            > What I think we need are Developers or Venture Capitalists who
                            >can finance the foundations, and encourage metropolitan
                            >participation in arcology solutions.

                            Kevin,

                            thanks for responding positively! Here is a site in German that shows some
                            features. Alt Erlaa has the highest participation and satisfaction of all
                            public housing in Vienna. For those who dont know, Vienna city is
                            relatively the biggest developer in the world, having an installed base of
                            about 200.000+ appartments. Its done by publically owned corporations like
                            GESIBA.

                            http://www.aeag.at/

                            to get an idea about the diversity and life, visit the Wohnpark V site:

                            http://www.citynews.at/wptv/wpmediaprogramm.html

                            One of the key factors of the success of the Wohnpark is the connectedness
                            to public transportation (metro) - that in little time allows people to
                            commute from the suburban location to the city center and other important
                            nodes. So I think the integration with other elements of the urban fabric
                            is important.

                            Of course there is a big difference in the European and American
                            worldview. Having had close experience not only with Arcosanti, which I
                            visited four times, but also with some "finished" suburban living
                            conditions, I think that private developments tend to be overly
                            restrictive on the life of their participants, creating monocultures (like
                            Sun City) and uniform value systems. Public developments engage the
                            highest possible degree of diversity among people. One idea would be to
                            compose an Arcology out of various zones with different developers and
                            establish a network of subcultures, like proposed by Christopher Alexander
                            in "pattern language". hat has been tried in Viennas second Arcology style
                            development, the "Gasometer City":
                            Its a mixture of old and new, and there are interpretations by four
                            architects. One of them is Jean Nouvel.

                            http://gasometer.gesiba.at/bildergal/bg-bottom.html (Images)
                            http://www.gasometer.at/wohnen/ (three management companies)
                            http://www.gasometer.at/geschichte/

                            615 appartments, 1 student hostel with 200 beds, childrens care units,
                            11ooo sqm office space, entertainment center with cinema and hall for 4200
                            people, shopping mall with 70 shops (22000 sqm)

                            also here, the success comes with the integration in public transportation.

                            Franz
                          • Kevin Burgess
                            ... shows some ... of all ... base of ... corporations like ... I have not visited Vienna, or Alt-Erlaa since the late 1980 s, but here is something I missed:
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jan 17, 2008
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                              --- In arcology@yahoogroups.com, "Franz Nahrada" <f.nahrada@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > Kevin,
                              >
                              > thanks for responding positively! Here is a site in German that
                              shows some
                              > features. Alt Erlaa has the highest participation and satisfaction
                              of all
                              > public housing in Vienna. For those who dont know, Vienna city is
                              > relatively the biggest developer in the world, having an installed
                              base of
                              > about 200.000+ appartments. Its done by publically owned
                              corporations like
                              > GESIBA.
                              >
                              > http://www.aeag.at/
                              >
                              > to get an idea about the diversity and life, visit the Wohnpark V
                              site:
                              >
                              > http://www.citynews.at/wptv/wpmediaprogramm.html
                              >
                              I have not visited Vienna, or Alt-Erlaa since the late 1980's, but
                              here is something I missed:
                              "UMWELTSCHUTZ/ Technische Angaben über die Müllentsorgung in Alt
                              Erlaa Müllzentrale:
                              Für die Entsorgung des Hausmülls in Alt Erlaa gibt es eine zentrale
                              Müllabsauganlage inkl. Müllzentrale.
                              Prinzip: Eine vergleichbares Staubsaugersystem, dass mit
                              Mülleinwurfstellen in den jeweiligen Wohnungsstockwerken
                              ausgestattet ist. "
                              CLIP, AND:
                              "Die komplette Müllzentrale ist mit einer elektronischen
                              computergesteuerten Technologie ausgestattet.
                              In der Müllzentrale werden jährlich / ca. 1100 Tonnen Hausmüll
                              entsorgt."

                              That is a LOT of garbage!

                              The news-to-me that Alt-Erlaa has such a strong Recycling Program is
                              very interesting indeed!

                              I'd also forgotten the Metro (subway/light-rail) connection, but of
                              course that was how I got out there from central Vienna. Mass
                              transportation is such an important & integral part of the Arcology
                              concept that many seem to dismiss or forget.

                              I will continue to read through the site some more. Thank you very
                              much for the link!
                            • Franz Nahrada
                              Kevin, all, here is another fantastic link on Alt - Erlaa: http://deputy-dog.com/2008/01/09/the-worlds-nicest-social-housing-complex/ very nice images! And
                              Message 14 of 14 , Jan 18, 2008
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                                Kevin, all,


                                here is another fantastic link on Alt - Erlaa:

                                http://deputy-dog.com/2008/01/09/the-worlds-nicest-social-housing-complex/

                                very nice images! And also the comments are quite interesting, please add
                                yours!

                                of course the article is a little bit biased, because besides
                                governernment subsidies still there is a considerable rent to pay in this
                                complex - its not "just for poor people", but rather a middle class
                                building, still with a very diverse mixture of inhabitants. Maybe that is
                                also the secret of successful integration....

                                Wouldn‘t it be nice to have an international conference on Arcology there?
                                Just a crazy idea.....
                                They even have the conference facilities (large multipurpose hall that
                                serves as gym most of the time)

                                all the best from Vienna

                                Franz
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