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Re: [arcology] Re: It's about Ownership

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  • Chris ScottHanson
    I don t know Mary and Tomiaki. Do they now hold the keys to the Arcosanti kingdom. Are they the heirs to the Soleri throne? Sounds like the middle ages,
    Message 1 of 23 , Jun 8, 2007
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      I don't know Mary and Tomiaki.  Do they now hold the keys to the Arcosanti kingdom.  Are they the heirs to the Soleri throne?  Sounds like the middle ages, before the private ownership of land?   When the non-profit that owns Arcosanti is ready to come into the new world of ownership and out of the world of serfdom, we might get somewhere with Arcosanti.
       
      Do you know much about cultural creatives or the LOHAS market?  42% or more of the population is the last number I heard. (Google LOHAS if you haven't looked into it.)

      Has anyone done the demographics on the list of Arco Alumni, starting with ages.  I will bet that the LOHAS segment of the Acro Alums is closer to 80%, or maybe even higher.

      The earliest Arco Alums start in 1970,  including some I know of reading this list now. (I heard stories about bare chested women clearing the road, from a woman who was there)  I happened to be there in '81.  Last I heard the alum numbers were up over 6000.  Anyone know an update?

      Are there buyers out there?  YES!

      Does it matter what Mary or Tomiaki think?  I don't know.  But maybe it should matter to them.


      Chris



       
      On Jun 8, 2007, at 8:32 AM, Dan Keram wrote:


      yeah, yeah, yeah. My question is yet to be answered though......and Chris, if you know Mary and Tomiaki, do you think they will really be accepting of Landrover and Prius types buying timeshares?
       
      Dan Keram

      .
      ,_._,___

    • Jeff Buderer
      Chris, What colorful and bluntly honest comments! And for a lot of people that have been involved in Arcosanti they basically hit the target in terms of
      Message 2 of 23 , Jun 10, 2007
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        Chris,

        What colorful and bluntly honest comments! And for a lot of people that have been involved in Arcosanti they basically hit the target in terms of explaining the gist of the situation.

        Maybe we should not be so dependent on what does or does not happen at Arcosanti but rather create an opportunity within our networks to invest in something based on the thinking that has brought us here but more in line with what you put forward below which it does seem that the current Arcosanti admin people are reluctant to embrace.

        I would like to hear more about your experiences in the Cohousing movement and how we might learn from that to develop a practical model for developing small and human scale Arcologies to start out. I think part of the issue that makes Arcologies so unrealistic a cocnept is there is not realistic starting point for their scaling and replication that is based on a understanding of what it takes to grow a sustainable socioeconomic system.

        In terms of updates there is not a mechanism to update people those 6000 or so alumni you mentioned such as newsletter. Part of the reason for this may actually be an ambivilence in terms of wanting the financial and volunteer support of the alumni but conflicting with that a concern that with that would lead to a desire to have a role in the development of the project.

        Jeff


        From: Chris ScottHanson <chris@...>
        Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 3:41 PM
        To: arcology@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [arcology] Re: It's about Ownership


        I don't know Mary and Tomiaki.  Do they now hold the keys to the Arcosanti kingdom.  Are they the heirs to the Soleri throne?  Sounds like the middle ages, before the private ownership of land?   When the non-profit that owns Arcosanti is ready to come into the new world of ownership and out of the world of serfdom, we might get somewhere with Arcosanti.

         
        Do you know much about cultural creatives or the LOHAS market?  42% or more of the population is the last number I heard. (Google LOHAS if you haven't looked into it.)

        Has anyone done the demographics on the list of Arco Alumni, starting with ages.  I will bet that the LOHAS segment of the Acro Alums is closer to 80%, or maybe even higher.

        The earliest Arco Alums start in 1970,  including some I know of reading this list now. (I heard stories about bare chested women clearing the road, from a woman who was there)  I happened to be there in '81.  Last I heard the alum numbers were up over 6000.  Anyone know an update?

        Are there buyers out there?  YES!

        Does it matter what Mary or Tomiaki think?  I don't know.  But maybe it should matter to them.


        Chris



         
        On Jun 8, 2007, at 8:32 AM, Dan Keram wrote:


        yeah, yeah, yeah. My question is yet to be answered though......and Chris, if you know Mary and Tomiaki, do you think they will really be accepting of Landrover and Prius types buying timeshares?
         
        Dan Keram

        .
        ,_._,___


      • anne tonks
        Hi All Greetings from Arcosanti where tonight we finished the juneteenth jazz week end. Beautiful weather. Nice time. Chris wanted to know about the age
        Message 3 of 23 , Jun 10, 2007
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          Hi All

          Greetings from Arcosanti where tonight we finished the
          juneteenth jazz week end. Beautiful weather. Nice
          time.

          Chris wanted to know about the age distribution of
          arcosanti alums and/or interested parties.

          The average age of an arcosanti alumni is now about 47
          years of age. That is all alumni from 1970 thru 2005.

          Definitely a group that could go somewhere and build
          something if they wanted to do so.--although some
          still have to get the kids through college!!!!

          There is a town/city for 36000 people under
          development about 25 miles south of Hoover Dam on us
          93. It's called the Ranch at White Hills. All the
          property was purchased by a man named Leonard Mardian
          who is a wealthy las vegas/southern california
          developer but now in his late 60's is interested in
          more ecologically sensitive development. Perhaps he
          has a sort of legacy in mind--but not sure of that--I
          also suspect he will make a ton of money as well.

          My cousin Elno Roundy who lives in Kingman is the
          Project Manager for the project.

          I know they plan to have nothing more than 10 minutes
          walk from most needed services.

          The biggest hitch in this scheme is the lack of
          employment opportunities. I believe one of the
          reasons it is situated as it is is a combination of
          several huge pieces of property for sale AND MORE
          IMPORTANTLY A NEW BRIDGE IN FRONT OF HOOVER DAM
          WCHEDULED FOR COMPLETION NEXT YEAR which makes it less
          than an hour from las vegas.

          I drove by the site on my way to Arcosanti and I think
          the trailer crowd is planning to use that type of
          housing for their residences (not totally so--some are
          manufactured homes and look traditional. But most
          property is not yet for sale Iexcept as 5 or so acres
          parcels) since the city plan has conceptually been
          approved but last I heard the final wasn't.

          So, if someone wanted to go down there and start an
          arcology--it might be affordable land (and some land
          up toward the back of the property away from the road
          is just plumb full of joshua trees and quite
          beautiful).

          Check it out at http://theranchatwhitehills.com/

          I just googled to see what was available. Here is
          something quote unquote "nearby" which is 100 acres
          for $899,000.

          http://www.loopnet.com/xNet/MainSite/Listing/Profile/ProfileSE.aspx?LID=14580651&linkcode=10850&sourcecode=1lww2t006a00001

          They do have 100 year supply of water at white hills
          which was required to get the original permits. In
          fact that is how my cousin got involved as he is an
          expert on water in the desert and actually
          experimented, supervised drilling and verified the
          water supply in an aquifer. He has some plans which
          he thinks will provide for a constant supply of water
          for perpetuity having to do with harvesting of rain
          water in specific ways so that instead of running off
          or evaporating about half of it ends up back in the
          acquifer.

          Maybe not an architecturally elegant and visually
          beautiful development--but one that might actually
          happen!!!!

          If you look into it let me know what you think. I'm
          having lunch with my cousin who is involved in this
          project next week-end and will have some more info
          after that if anyone is interested!!!

          Anne


          --- Jeff Buderer <jeff@...>
          wrote:

          > Chris,
          >
          > What colorful and bluntly honest comments! And for a
          > lot of people that have been involved in Arcosanti
          > they basically hit the target in terms of explaining
          > the gist of the situation.
          >
          > Maybe we should not be so dependent on what does or
          > does not happen at Arcosanti but rather create an
          > opportunity within our networks to invest in
          > something based on the thinking that has brought us
          > here but more in line with what you put forward
          > below which it does seem that the current Arcosanti
          > admin people are reluctant to embrace.
          >
          > I would like to hear more about your experiences in
          > the Cohousing movement and how we might learn from
          > that to develop a practical model for developing
          > small and human scale Arcologies to start out. I
          > think part of the issue that makes Arcologies so
          > unrealistic a cocnept is there is not realistic
          > starting point for their scaling and replication
          > that is based on a understanding of what it takes to
          > grow a sustainable socioeconomic system.
          >
          > In terms of updates there is not a mechanism to
          > update people those 6000 or so alumni you mentioned
          > such as newsletter. Part of the reason for this may
          > actually be an ambivilence in terms of wanting the
          > financial and volunteer support of the alumni but
          > conflicting with that a concern that with that would
          > lead to a desire to have a role in the development
          > of the project.
          >
          > Jeff
          >
          > ----------------------------------------
          > From: Chris ScottHanson
          > <chris@...>
          > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 3:41 PM
          > To: arcology@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [arcology] Re: It's about Ownership
          >
          > I don't know Mary and Tomiaki. Do they now hold the
          > keys to the Arcosanti kingdom. Are they the heirs
          > to the Soleri throne? Sounds like the middle ages,
          > before the private ownership of land? When the
          > non-profit that owns Arcosanti is ready to come into
          > the new world of ownership and out of the world of
          > serfdom, we might get somewhere with Arcosanti. Do
          > you know much about cultural creatives or the LOHAS
          > market? 42% or more of the population is the last
          > number I heard. (Google LOHAS if you haven't looked
          > into it.)Has anyone done the demographics on the
          > list of Arco Alumni, starting with ages. I will bet
          > that the LOHAS segment of the Acro Alums is closer
          > to 80%, or maybe even higher.The earliest Arco Alums
          > start in 1970, including some I know of reading
          > this list now. (I heard stories about bare chested
          > women clearing the road, from a woman who was there)
          > I happened to be there in '81. Last I heard the
          > alum numbers were up over 6000. Anyone know an
          > update?Are there buyers out there? YES!Does it
          > matter what Mary or Tomiaki think? I don't know.
          > But maybe it should matter to them.Chris
          > On Jun 8, 2007, at 8:32 AM, Dan Keram wrote:yeah,
          > yeah, yeah. My question is yet to be answered
          > though......and Chris, if you know Mary and Tomiaki,
          > do you think they will really be accepting of
          > Landrover and Prius types buying timeshares? Dan
          > Keram.,_._,___
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Jeff Buderer
          Anne, Thanks for that report. I had a chance to check out your Cousin s project and I have to say that it would be great to hear more about the ecological
          Message 4 of 23 , Jun 11, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Anne,

            Thanks for that report. I had a chance to check out your Cousin's project and I have to say that it would be great to hear more about the "ecological features of the site" because I saw nothing about it on the website.

            I did see that there has been a delay in the megafreeway planned to bypass Hoover Dam and reduce travel times by 1/2 hour to 45 min (@80+ miles a hour) to LV from the planned development area. I was bit shocked at the scale of the development. It is planned to have over 60k of single family homes and that means even with contemporary houses being relative sparse at 2.3 people per houses you are talking about a 100000 plus people development definitely ranking up there with the planned city of Anthem by the Mega Sprawl Builder Del Webb http://www.delwebb.com/anthemarizona/.

            Now I recall living at Arcosanti and seeing the urban sprawl creep closer to us Anthem was a big step in that direction. The glare of Pheonix actually affected the night sky but of course it is unlikely that Arcosanti will ever be surrounded by suburbia. However careful thought should be given before investing in a project whose neighbors might reflect the worst excesses of suburban sprawl. Often an Arcology themed project could also serve as a role model as well and possibly if presented properly to the real estate mangate could actually be an opportunity for him to consider his legacy a bit...

            Indeed it was Soleri's sense of being overrun by Pheonix sprawl that led him to escape 70 miles north to establish Arcosanti.

            Jeff

            Hi All

            Greetings from Arcosanti where tonight we finished the
            juneteenth jazz week end. Beautiful weather. Nice
            time.

            Chris wanted to know about the age distribution of
            arcosanti alums and/or interested parties.

            The average age of an arcosanti alumni is now about 47
            years of age. That is all alumni from 1970 thru 2005.

            Definitely a group that could go somewhere and build
            something if they wanted to do so.--although some
            still have to get the kids through college!!!!

            There is a town/city for 36000 people under
            development about 25 miles south of Hoover Dam on us
            93. It's called the Ranch at White Hills. All the
            property was purchased by a man named Leonard Mardian
            who is a wealthy las vegas/southern california
            developer but now in his late 60's is interested in
            more ecologically sensitive development. Perhaps he
            has a sort of legacy in mind--but not sure of that--I
            also suspect he will make a ton of money as well.

            My cousin Elno Roundy who lives in Kingman is the
            Project Manager for the project.

            I know they plan to have nothing more than 10 minutes
            walk from most needed services.

            The biggest hitch in this scheme is the lack of
            employment opportunities. I believe one of the
            reasons it is situated as it is is a combination of
            several huge pieces of property for sale AND MORE
            IMPORTANTLY A NEW BRIDGE IN FRONT OF HOOVER DAM
            WCHEDULED FOR COMPLETION NEXT YEAR which makes it less
            than an hour from las vegas.

            I drove by the site on my way to Arcosanti and I think
            the trailer crowd is planning to use that type of
            housing for their residences (not totally so--some are
            manufactured homes and look traditional. But most
            property is not yet for sale Iexcept as 5 or so acres
            parcels) since the city plan has conceptually been
            approved but last I heard the final wasn't.

            So, if someone wanted to go down there and start an
            arcology--it might be affordable land (and some land
            up toward the back of the property away from the road
            is just plumb full of joshua trees and quite
            beautiful).

            Check it out at http://theranchatwh itehills. com/

            I just googled to see what was available. Here is
            something quote unquote "nearby" which is 100 acres
            for $899,000.

            http://www.loopnet. com/xNet/ MainSite/ Listing/Profile/ ProfileSE. aspx?LID= 14580651& linkcode= 10850&sourcecode =1lww2t006a00001

            They do have 100 year supply of water at white hills
            which was required to get the original permits. In
            fact that is how my cousin got involved as he is an
            expert on water in the desert and actually
            experimented, supervised drilling and verified the
            water supply in an aquifer. He has some plans which
            he thinks will provide for a constant supply of water
            for perpetuity having to do with harvesting of rain
            water in specific ways so that instead of running off
            or evaporating about half of it ends up back in the
            acquifer.

            Maybe not an architecturally elegant and visually
            beautiful development- -but one that might actually
            happen!!!!

            If you look into it let me know what you think. I'm
            having lunch with my cousin who is involved in this
            project next week-end and will have some more info
            after that if anyone is interested!! !

            Anne

            --- Jeff Buderer <jeff@onevillagefoun dation.org>
            wrote:

            > Chris,
            >
            > What colorful and bluntly honest comments! And for a
            > lot of people that have been involved in Arcosanti
            > they basically hit the target in terms of explaining
            > the gist of the situation.
            >
            > Maybe we should not be so dependent on what does or
            > does not happen at Arcosanti but rather create an
            > opportunity within our networks to invest in
            > something based on the thinking that has brought us
            > here but more in line with what you put forward
            > below which it does seem that the current Arcosanti
            > admin people are reluctant to embrace.
            >
            > I would like to hear more about your experiences in
            > the Cohousing movement and how we might learn from
            > that to develop a practical model for developing
            > small and human scale Arcologies to start out. I
            > think part of the issue that makes Arcologies so
            > unrealistic a cocnept is there is not realistic
            > starting point for their scaling and replication
            > that is based on a understanding of what it takes to
            > grow a sustainable socioeconomic system.
            >
            > In terms of updates there is not a mechanism to
            > update people those 6000 or so alumni you mentioned
            > such as newsletter. Part of the reason for this may
            > actually be an ambivilence in terms of wanting the
            > financial and volunteer support of the alumni but
            > conflicting with that a concern that with that would
            > lead to a desire to have a role in the development
            > of the project.
            >
            > Jeff
            >
            > ------------ --------- --------- --------- -
            > From: Chris ScottHanson
            > <chris@cohousingreso urces.com>
            > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 3:41 PM
            > To: arcology@yahoogroup s.com
            > Subject: Re: [arcology] Re: It's about Ownership
            >
            > I don't know Mary and Tomiaki. Do they now hold the
            > keys to the Arcosanti kingdom. Are they the heirs
            > to the Soleri throne? Sounds like the middle ages,
            > before the private ownership of land? When the
            > non-profit that owns Arcosanti is ready to come into
            > the new world of ownership and out of the world of
            > serfdom, we might get somewhere with Arcosanti. Do
            > you know much about cultural creatives or the LOHAS
            > market? 42% or more of the population is the last
            > number I heard. (Google LOHAS if you haven't looked
            > into it.)Has anyone done the demographics on the
            > list of Arco Alumni, starting with ages. I will bet
            > that the LOHAS segment of the Acro Alums is closer
            > to 80%, or maybe even higher.The earliest Arco Alums
            > start in 1970, including some I know of reading
            > this list now. (I heard stories about bare chested
            > women clearing the road, from a woman who was there)
            > I happened to be there in '81. Last I heard the
            > alum numbers were up over 6000. Anyone know an
            > update?Are there buyers out there? YES!Does it
            > matter what Mary or Tomiaki think? I don't know.
            > But maybe it should matter to them.Chris
            > On Jun 8, 2007, at 8:32 AM, Dan Keram wrote:yeah,
            > yeah, yeah. My question is yet to be answered
            > though...... and Chris, if you know Mary and Tomiaki,
            > do you think they will really be accepting of
            > Landrover and Prius types buying timeshares? Dan
            > Keram.,_._,_ __


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