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Re: [arcology] q

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  • Robert Matthews
    What a serindipitous email. I was actually just thinking about this the other day. I STRONGLY support the idea of encouraging an arcology in an existing
    Message 1 of 21 , Aug 10, 2002
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      What a serindipitous email. I was actually just thinking about this the
      other day.

      I STRONGLY support the idea of encouraging an arcology in an existing
      'city-or-town-in-decline', for the following reasons:

      1. There is a much greater likelyhood of persuading the local residents that
      the arcology model, if not a panacea, will at least stimulate the local
      economy. This requires us to have some idea of what viable economic model
      the arcology presents, but this is true no matter where it would be built.

      2. If the arcology model does provide incentive for the turn-around of the
      local environment (not limited to economy, but all of arcology's strengths),
      this would stand as a powerful justification to expand research and
      development of arcology technology.

      3. Once one community such as this has taken off, others will likely want to
      get in on the action.

      4. MOST IMPORTANTLY: Where else will we start an arcology? Existing larger
      cities will likely have too much 'baggage' for proper retrofitting. Virgin
      sites mean appropriating more land to human use, which is contrary to the
      purpose of arcology. (Note: I'm not totally against the use of virgin land
      if it is a necessity... but it is not preferable to repurposing an existing
      settlement.)


      -Robert Matthews
      -Arcology Development Institute


      >From: Daniel DeLorme <daniel@...>
      >Reply-To: arcology@yahoogroups.com
      >To: arcology@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: Re: [arcology] q
      >Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 17:10:53 -0400
      >
      >keramfamily@... wrote:
      > >
      > > there are a number of aging cities in the mid-west and the north-east,
      > > where populations have declined as jobs and industries have moved on.
      > > Chances are that there may be a community which, rather than seeing
      > > itself continue to shrink, (with a corresponding loss of services and
      >the
      > > ability to pay for them) inclined to see the potential for both civic
      >and
      > > commercial gain by agreeing to become an, 'Arcology becoming'. Or
      >perhaps
      > > not. Whatcha' think?
      >
      >The problem I see with is that if an area is in decline, there may be a
      >strong reason for it. The decline may be due to changes in demographics,
      >climate, world economy, etc. The kind of changes that are only obvious in
      >retrospect a hundred years later. No matter the invigorating potential of
      >an arcology (which, I must point out, is still unknown at this point), the
      >area may be already "doomed". In such a case, building an arcology in such
      >an area seems a tad suicidal to me.
      >
      >The arcology would have to actually bring something more to the declining
      >city (like a new industry), and not just a new architectural form.
      >
      >Nam�ri�,
      >___________________________________________________________________________
      >Daniel "42" DeLorme /| |�|/���\
      >ICQ:11411269, AIM:DanFortyTwo / |_| | �| |
      >encyclopedist @ http://www.animenewsnetwork.com |___ | / /_
      >webmaster @ http://dan42.com (Jin-Roh, Millennium Actress) |_||____|
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    • Chris ScottHanson
      Robert, I agree with all your points. I think of St. Louis and the opportunities there. The downside and the risks are real though. Daniel¹s concerns should
      Message 2 of 21 , Aug 19, 2002
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        Re: [arcology] q Robert,

        I agree with all your points.

        I think of St. Louis and the opportunities there.  The downside and the risks are real though.  Daniel’s concerns should be seriously considered.

        Chris ScottHanson


        on 8/10/02 10:32 AM, Robert Matthews at arcologist@... wrote:

        What a serindipitous email. I was actually just thinking about this the
        other day.

        I STRONGLY support the idea of encouraging an arcology in an existing
        'city-or-town-in-decline', for the following reasons:

        1. There is a much greater likelyhood of persuading the local residents that
        the arcology model, if not a panacea, will at least stimulate the local
        economy. This requires us to have some idea of what viable economic model
        the arcology presents, but this is true no matter where it would be built.

        2. If the arcology model does provide incentive for the turn-around of the
        local environment (not limited to economy, but all of arcology's strengths),
        this would stand as a powerful justification to expand research and
        development of arcology technology.

        3. Once one community such as this has taken off, others will likely want to
        get in on the action.

        4. MOST IMPORTANTLY: Where else will we start an arcology? Existing larger
        cities will likely have too much 'baggage' for proper retrofitting. Virgin
        sites mean appropriating more land to human use, which is contrary to the
        purpose of arcology. (Note: I'm not totally against the use of virgin land
        if it is a necessity... but it is not preferable to repurposing an existing
        settlement.)


        -Robert Matthews
        -Arcology Development Institute

      • keramfamily@juno.com
        In the various designs of Arcosanti, what provisions have been made for manufacturing or other industrial processes? Is it assumed that the economy will be
        Message 3 of 21 , Jul 19, 2003
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          In the various designs of Arcosanti, what provisions have been made for manufacturing or other industrial processes? Is it assumed that the economy will be purely service based? The same goes for the arcologies that have been designed by Paolo. Industries expand and contract as their fortunes rise and fall. Is an arcology flexible enough (both physically and socially)to adapt to the changing fortunes of the corporate world?

          Thoughts?

          Dan Keram
          Vancouver, WA

          ________________________________________________________________
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        • Franz J. Nahrada
          ... Dan and all, forgive me. I was inspired to do a longer answer on this, as I am new to this group..... I am not sure what Paolo thinks about these
          Message 4 of 21 , Jul 19, 2003
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            Dan Keram wrote in arcology(at)yahoogroups.com:
            >
            >In the various designs of Arcosanti, what provisions have been made for
            >manufacturing or other industrial processes? Is it assumed that the
            >economy will be purely service based? The same goes for the arcologies
            >that have been designed by Paolo. Industries expand and contract as their
            >fortunes rise and fall. Is an arcology flexible enough (both physically
            >and socially)to adapt to the changing fortunes of the corporate world?
            >
            >Thoughts?
            >
            >Dan Keram
            >Vancouver, WA

            Dan and all,

            forgive me. I was inspired to do a longer answer on this, as I am new to
            this group.....

            I am not sure what Paolo thinks about these processes. I think that one
            thinker is not enough to cover the complexity of the world. Anyway, As I
            look at his archology designs through the ages (I mean from "Cities and
            the Image of Man" upwards) I find there is manufacturing space - mostly in
            the "Interior" of the large structures, the "stomach" of the urban animal
            or plant. The place humans would avoid, far from sun and air and light,
            though we can do miracles.

            We all know that Paolo never ceases to emphasize that these processes are
            part of the music, not of the instrument.
            But I think despite this its time to look deeper into this question and in
            fact it is an important one. Cities as we know them were mainly built
            around industrial processes. A city is not just a function of the process
            of communication, but also of the process of production. A digesting
            system, a distribution System.

            Should we say simply the city is an organism? - that is by far not a very
            good idea, because animals and plants have different kinds of metabolisms.
            So as much as the word organism is true, the concept of an organism is
            very abstract. The animal is a raptor, whereas the plant is a slow
            dissolutor. What kind of animal, what kind of plant is an arcology? When
            will we begin to pose these questions?? Can we do morphology without
            anatomy??

            The day before yesterday I had the delight of seing an encounter between
            arcology and biology. Richard Register of Ecocity builders, one of the
            most enduring propagators of arcology ideas, was hosted by Bernd Loetsch,
            director of the Viennese Museum of Natural History. Loetsch is very much
            interested in ecological city design. So my question is: can ecological
            city design profit from biology? My assumption would be that ecological
            city design in large is also an application of theoretical and empirical
            biology.

            But instead of mitochondriae and epithelia we are studying
            semi-transparent membranes and materials respectively machines and
            energy/information/matter cycles. Still there are the same fundamental
            basic laws that apply. It was Richard Register who directed me towards the
            amazing wealth of the book "Living Systems" by James Greer Miller back in
            1996. It has deeply influenced my thinking. Yes, there are the same
            critical 19 subsystems in each bacterium as they are in an Oceanliner or
            in a city.

            And they can vary in form and function. So production can happen in the
            form of Industry, or the "animal paradigm", where one central production
            system has to be established, with large machinery at the center ("the
            stomach"). Or it can happen, as it is increasingly happening, in the form
            of automation as distinguished from industry, or as I would call it the
            "plant paradigm", where there is one central intelligence digitally
            corresponding with a lot of autonomous production units embedded in
            material cycles (the leaves, the roots). I feel an arcology will be much
            closer to the paradigm of the plant and therefore is connected to the new
            automated systems of distributed production. And where there is
            distribution, there is less prevailing of the old logic of grouping
            everytthing around production - people, pathways, energy etc.

            or, in the way like Marshall McLuhan described it:

            "In a culture like ours, long accustomed to splitting and dividing all
            things as a means of control, it is sometimes a bit of a shock to be
            reminded that, in operational and practical fact, the medium is the
            message. This is merely to say that the personal and social consequences
            of any medium--that is, of any extension of ourselves--result from the new
            scale that is introduced into our affairs by each extension of ourselves,
            or by any new technology. Thus, with automation, for example, the new
            patterns of human association tend to eliminate jobs, it is true. That is
            the negative result. Positively, automation creates roles for people,
            which is to say depth of involvement in their work and human association
            that our preceding mechanical technology had destroyed. Many people would
            be disposed to say that it was not the machine, but what one did with the
            machine, that was its meaning or message. In terms of the ways in which
            the machine altered our relations to one another and to ourselves, it
            mattered not in the least whether it tuned out cornflakes or Cadillacs.
            The restructuring of human work and association was shaped by the
            technique of fragmentation that is the essence of machine technology. The
            essence of automation technology is the opposite. It is integral and
            decentralist in depth, just as the machine was fragmentary, centralist,
            and superficial
            in its patterning of human relationships."

            The deeper meaning of this is that automation reduces the need for a
            special "production" area within the urban arena. A good example is the
            computer printer, in comparison to the old printshop. Telecommunication
            makes it easier to share tasks between various locations, limiting the
            stress on physical transportation.

            On the other hand, we might see the advantage of an integrated "stomach"
            logistics for very complicated production processes which cannot be
            decentralised. The advantage of campus-style 2D production systems that we
            have today is that elements can be quickly replaced and altered. How do we
            care for this complexity & modularisation in 3D?

            We had a partly failure here in Vienna, it was called "homeworker city", a
            mini - arcology near the "car-free city" (another complex). They (The
            daring developers of SEG) now renamed it and called it the "compact city"
            to minimize the allusion to production.
            People would not go too much for the workshops and production places in
            the backside of the building. They were not modular enough.
            http://www.iswb.at/projekt/projekt.phtm?ID=53
            http://www.iswb.at/projekt/bild.phtm?ID=53&nr=1&Art=Bild (click on image
            to get the next)
            " fifty-nine apartments from thirty-six to 105 m2, twenty-two offices,
            twenty workshops, studios, office premises, and storage rooms, will offer
            a mixture of functions at the fringes of the city."

            Lots of stuff to think about ;-)

            Franz Nahrada
            ---------------------
            Globally Integrated Village Environment
            Vienna, Austria
            www.give.at
          • Randall Hunt
            ... Particularly in respect to your last sentence, I suggest that there will be no arcologies without fresh air and sunlight. If those qualities are not
            Message 5 of 21 , Jul 20, 2003
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              Franz responded to Dan:

              >...Anyway, As I
              >look at his archology designs through the ages (I mean from "Cities and
              >the Image of Man" upwards) I find there is manufacturing space - mostly in
              >the "Interior" of the large structures, the "stomach" of the urban animal
              >or plant. The place humans would avoid, far from sun and air and light,
              >though we can do miracles.

              Particularly in respect to your last sentence, I suggest that there will be
              no arcologies without fresh air and sunlight. If those qualities are not
              present in a design, the structure will simply never be built.

              As to whether or not an arcology is able to accommodate changing
              manufacturing needs (not necessarily "corporate" in nature, as Dan
              implies), let me suggest that you slightly alter your frame of reference.
              Instead of calling it an arcology (whatever one thinks is an arcology! It's
              been obvious that not everyone has read -- or necessarily understands --
              Paolo's definition), try calling it a support structure (Habraken's term).
              A support structure is more easily conceived than an arcology.

              A support structure (a rose is a rose is a rose...) provides platforms for
              performance. Weight considerations notwithstanding, the platform is
              independent from what it supports, whether it is fifty houses or forty
              houses and one big box store -- whatever -- so platforms, by definition,
              are modifiable. And multiple platforms can be arranged within 3-space to
              provide fresh air and sunlight throughout the overall structure. Just
              because we call such structures three-dimensional does not mean that they
              must have an "inside" and an "outside". Think about an arcology as a
              structure of platforms (or, better, as a structure of landforms). Don't get
              too caught up in the animal analogy of a skin separating an inside from an
              outside.

              The principle of change-accommodation is crucial at all scales. At the
              scale of the household, there is the opportunity to reinvigorate urban
              economics by reestablishing home businesses (interstitially) within the
              urban matrix of manufacturing, etc.

              BTW, Franz, what population range are you thinking about for your GIVE project?
            • Daniel DeLorme
              ... Oh? Pray tell how, because while fresh air isn t much of a problem, I cannot for the life of me figure out out to bring sunlight to the entirety of an
              Message 6 of 21 , Jul 20, 2003
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                Randall Hunt wrote:
                > [snip] And multiple platforms can be arranged within 3-space to
                > provide fresh air and sunlight throughout the overall structure.

                Oh? Pray tell how, because while fresh air isn't much of a problem,
                I cannot for the life of me figure out out to bring sunlight to the
                entirety of an arcology.

                It's a simple mathematical fact: sunlight is received in proportion
                to the AREA exposed to sunlight. But the arcology, being a volumetric
                structure, would need sunlight to the whole VOLUME. Geometry being
                what it is, area increases more slowly than volume when dimensions
                increase. The bigger the arcology, the less light each unit of volume
                can receive. Apart from producing artificial light with an energy
                spectrum similiar to sunlight, I don't see how natural light could
                be brought to an entire arcological structure. I'll admit the problem
                isn't for the near future -- an arcology with 10,000 inhabitants is
                not likely to be big enough to experience that problem. But the
                bigger you get, the more it will become apparent.

                Daniel
              • Louis Dallara
                Light Shafts ... From: Daniel DeLorme [mailto:daniel@dan42.com] Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 8:48 PM To: arcology@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [arcology] q ...
                Message 7 of 21 , Jul 20, 2003
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                           Light Shafts
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Daniel DeLorme [mailto:daniel@...]
                  Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 8:48 PM
                  To: arcology@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [arcology] q

                  Randall Hunt wrote:
                  > [snip] And multiple platforms can be arranged within 3-space to
                  > provide fresh air and sunlight throughout the overall structure.

                  Oh? Pray tell how, because while fresh air isn't much of a problem,
                  I cannot for the life of me figure out out to bring sunlight to the
                  entirety of an arcology.

                  It's a simple mathematical fact: sunlight is received in proportion
                  to the AREA exposed to sunlight. But the arcology, being a volumetric
                  structure, would need sunlight to the whole VOLUME. Geometry being
                  what it is, area increases more slowly than volume when dimensions
                  increase. The bigger the arcology, the less light each unit of volume
                  can receive. Apart from producing artificial light with an energy
                  spectrum  similiar to sunlight, I don't see how natural light could
                  be brought to an entire arcological structure. I'll admit the problem
                  isn't for the near future -- an arcology with 10,000 inhabitants is
                  not likely to be big enough to experience that problem. But the
                  bigger you get, the more it will become apparent.

                  Daniel



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                  http://www.www60829.w1.com/




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                • Dan Keram
                  As the Soleri era winds down, what are the expectations for those in ascendancy, the Hoadley/Tomiaki s, as far as design, construction, and administration of
                  Message 8 of 21 , Oct 30, 2003
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                    As the Soleri era winds down, what are the
                    expectations for those in ascendancy, the
                    Hoadley/Tomiaki's, as far as design, construction, and
                    administration of Arcosanti? Will the project
                    continue, be transformed, stagnate, or disintegrate,
                    or some other possibility? Aside from Soleri, is there
                    conscensus that the next best step forward, (aside
                    from the need to bring the road up to code), is
                    construction of La Loggia? Will the Chardin Cloister
                    ever be constructed, the West Crescent be eternally
                    put on hold, and a minimal critical level of
                    habitation ever be achieved? And will the camp be
                    closed down, with the tranfer of those living down
                    below up to the mesa, bringing a wee bit more of an
                    'urban' feel to the place? How can Arcosanti be called
                    an "Urban Experiment", when it's population density
                    barely exceeds that of the mesa across the valley?
                    Now it is true that Arco is the 'game in
                    town'....all the belly-aching and name-calling, hurt
                    ego's and wounded pride not-withstanding, there just
                    aint anything else going on in America that even
                    closely approximates both the goals and actual
                    achievements of Soleri-ville. The proposed Califia in
                    the Bay area is just that....proposed. It is my
                    understanding that cohousing proponents declare that
                    it can work only in small-sized communities. Can
                    anyone identify a project that exceeds 2000 people?
                    Auroville in India has 1500 so far and seems to be
                    both viable and healthy, but whether it achieves it's
                    targeted goal of 50,000 is yet to be seen.

                    Dan Keram

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                  • jeff buderer
                    Dan, thanks for your comments. The real question is given the slow pace of sustainable development not just within the arcology movement but within society as
                    Message 9 of 21 , Nov 3, 2003
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                      Dan,

                      thanks for your comments.

                      The real question is given the slow pace of
                      sustainable development not just within the arcology
                      movement but within society as a whole, how can we
                      better organize ourselves towards the concept of right
                      livlihood so that we can better become that model we
                      want to see in the rest of the world?

                      >Now it is true that Arco is the 'game in town'....all
                      >the belly-aching and name-calling, hurt
                      > ego's and wounded pride not-withstanding...

                      but the very reason that Arcosanti and Arcology has
                      not progressed very rapidly may have to do with the
                      sense of frustration in relation to how the project is
                      organized and run.

                      ...there just
                      > aint anything else going on in America that even
                      > closely approximates both the goals and actual
                      > achievements of Soleri-ville.

                      The best way to see the situation in relation to the
                      limited pace of eco-themed development is that we have
                      not effectively organized ourselves and that there is
                      a need to be more effective in how we use our time in
                      this information overloaded age we live in. I am not
                      the model here but I think that when we start to
                      develop social networks that empower people and are
                      based in a physical enviornment that complements those
                      social networks, we are going to see the
                      sustainability movement reach critical mass.

                      Jeff

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                    • Franz Nahrada
                      Jeff Buderer writes ... Jeff, I totally agree with you. The one critical thing is that there are many locations around the world working on elements of
                      Message 10 of 21 , Nov 3, 2003
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                        Jeff Buderer writes
                        >
                        >The best way to see the situation in relation to the
                        >limited pace of eco-themed development is that we have
                        >not effectively organized ourselves and that there is
                        >a need to be more effective in how we use our time in
                        >this information overloaded age we live in. I am not
                        >the model here but I think that when we start to
                        >develop social networks that empower people and are
                        >based in a physical enviornment that complements those
                        >social networks, we are going to see the
                        >sustainability movement reach critical mass.

                        Jeff, I totally agree with you.

                        The one critical thing is that there are many locations around the world
                        working on elements of sustainability. Future labs, healing biotopes,
                        monasteries of the future.

                        But as long as the hold the mindset "We have the only viable solution, we
                        are inventing the world at this one place, we do not need to learn much
                        from others" they all - and that means we all - are doomed.

                        I have given up travelling to Arcosanti after 1995. I was also trying to
                        let me inspire by different visions - permaculture, ecovillage. All
                        approaches hold valuable insights into our future. But sometimes I get so
                        furious when these people neglect the fantastic opportunity Arcosanti
                        constitutes for learning about living densely and light on this planet. I
                        see enormous blindness when everybody wants to reinvent the wheel. For
                        example the community Tamera in Portugal says: We need to create all
                        healing information for the planet on one spot, at once.

                        This is a clear road to failure in my eyes. The future is too complex to
                        build it at one place. All that we can do is work on some building blocks.
                        And then, slowly starting to integrate and play with elements. This holds
                        true also for Arcosanti, allthough it has an ambitious goal. But of course
                        everybody sees the shortcomings. The glass of water can be considered half
                        full or half empty.

                        So the mindset is the main problem. I would prefer to see a kind of global
                        alliance of places striving towards sustainability, some urban, some
                        rural, some transurban like arcosanti. A virtual university of the future.

                        My hope goes currently to the new formed European Alliance of Telecottage
                        Associations. They have an installed base of almost 1000 community
                        learning centers spread all over Eastern Europe. Of course, they need
                        content. And content is the shaping of local living spaces. And they can
                        give us content: traditional knowledge and experience which is gradually
                        lost.

                        What we would need, is content for learning, a global "Open Repository of
                        Models and Ideas".. I do not know where all the simple and elegant
                        presentations from the Arcosanti website have gone, but I would be
                        grateful for leads to multimedia content that is convincing and easy to
                        present.

                        Franz Nahrada
                        Globally Integrated Village Environment
                        Vienna
                      • jeff buderer
                        Franz, I look forward to dicussing this with you further. I am particularly interested in the newly formed European Alliance of Telecottage Associations.
                        Message 11 of 21 , Nov 3, 2003
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                          Franz,

                          I look forward to dicussing this with you further. I
                          am particularly interested in the newly "formed
                          European Alliance of Telecottage Associations."

                          This is a great opportunity to provide useful content
                          for people who have open minds and who are flexible in
                          relation to change. To increase the viability and
                          relevance of Arcology theory we need reconfigure it as
                          a practical appeoach towards "the shaping of local
                          living spaces" that actually reflect the needs of the
                          people that live in these spaces while doing this in a
                          ecologically responsible way.

                          The One Village Foundation
                          (www.onevillagefoundation.org) that I am associated
                          with is currently working on a knowledge base for
                          ecoliving and sustainable development for developing
                          regions of the world. This knowledge base might also
                          be useful for this project as well. And what about
                          Arcosanti? I think there is much that would be of use
                          to the eco-living community but the more extreme
                          interpretation of Arcologies is a turn off for many
                          people. So i think we need to work on the idea of
                          Arcology as a concept for remaking and rethinking our
                          built environment, rather than as one man's specific
                          architectural approach--well that is how i look at and
                          promote it to others.

                          Also the idea of multimedia content is important as a
                          promotional tool in educating the general public as
                          well as the countercultural community. Wes, the
                          workshop coordinator at Arcosanti has been talking
                          about creating local Arcology networks or chapters
                          that could promote the relevance of Arcology through
                          civic organizations, educational institutions,
                          government and the media.

                          I would be interested in discussing these issues in
                          further detail with you or anyone else here.

                          Jeff


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                        • Robert Matthews
                          Jeff, Thanks for *your* comments. I can t agree with you more. I suppose I strayed from Arcology long ago, hoping to plug it back in somewhere in my Master s
                          Message 12 of 21 , Nov 3, 2003
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                            Jeff,

                            Thanks for *your* comments.

                            I can't agree with you more. I suppose I strayed from Arcology long ago,
                            hoping to plug it back in somewhere in my Master's Thesis in Urban
                            Planning. That still stands... I begin my thesis in 9 months.

                            But I only strayed because I am witnessing a global failure to take heed in
                            the very serious ecological warnings from myriad networks of statured
                            research scientists. Obviously some social groups are handling it better
                            than others (the Netherlands is more sustainable than Turkey). But there is
                            a complex human social ecosystem at work guiding us into an uncertain
                            future. Arcology could be a physical or morphological component of a
                            response to the challenge of guiding and controlling future outcomes, but it
                            is only a piece of a much larger puzzle -- achieving global ecological
                            sanity.

                            Of course we have the power to choose our destiny (fortune) and we will be
                            forced to do so at some point of reckoning (inevitability) where our human
                            aggregate demand on the earth's ecosystem services outstrips the biosphere's
                            ability to sustain and replenish these services.

                            I fear for the survival of civilization, our collective human biophysical
                            and socio-biological evolutions, our wonderful and frightful tapestry of
                            human thoughts and actions, our essence, our soul, lest we become less than
                            human or suprahuman -- through devolution, genetic modification,
                            mutagenesis, physical adaptation, malicious use of
                            biological/chemical/nanotech weapons, the maintenance of nuclear arsenals
                            plus the assured development of ever more powerful weapons as technology
                            (truly in the hands of the few) allows, cyberneticism, or at worst, lest we
                            become extinct.

                            We must begin to ask ourselves what we want to be, as a species, as a global
                            family (with respect to E.O.Wilson). And how do we best accommodate the
                            plurality inevitable in the struggle between those who want to maintain our
                            system of priveliged, nationalized, laissez-faire progress at any cost
                            (Republicans and Democrats) and those who urge for a philosophically sound
                            process of planning tied to equitable global development and participatory
                            democracy -- in essence, sustainability advocates (not organized politically
                            - yet).

                            Transitioning from a energy-hungry, lopsided, utterly injust world that gets
                            along under the thumbs of oil dependence and a bizarre system of militarist
                            imperialism to one where multiple issues arise on multiple scales to
                            dispassionately conspire to tear apart our fragile global community. Tough
                            new questions will require concerted global action to arrive at consensus
                            and to implement a mitigation plan.

                            When we are forced to ask these powerful new questions of ourselves, who
                            will determine our fate?

                            Those who have strong opinions are joining forces everywhere, at all levels
                            and on all sides, to shape the nature of this inquiry, and our subsequent
                            response.

                            Will you (we) have a voice? Will it prevail or be vanquished? All of this is
                            to agree with Jeff that we have not yet effectively organized ourselves, and
                            to reiterate that we're running out of time with which to do so.



                            >From: jeff buderer <jefbuder@...>
                            >Reply-To: arcology@yahoogroups.com
                            >To: arcology@yahoogroups.com
                            >Subject: Re: [arcology] q
                            >Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 02:15:33 -0800 (PST)
                            >
                            >Franz,
                            >
                            >I look forward to dicussing this with you further. I
                            >am particularly interested in the newly "formed
                            >European Alliance of Telecottage Associations."
                            >
                            >This is a great opportunity to provide useful content
                            >for people who have open minds and who are flexible in
                            >relation to change. To increase the viability and
                            >relevance of Arcology theory we need reconfigure it as
                            >a practical appeoach towards "the shaping of local
                            >living spaces" that actually reflect the needs of the
                            >people that live in these spaces while doing this in a
                            >ecologically responsible way.
                            >
                            >The One Village Foundation
                            >(www.onevillagefoundation.org) that I am associated
                            >with is currently working on a knowledge base for
                            >ecoliving and sustainable development for developing
                            >regions of the world. This knowledge base might also
                            >be useful for this project as well. And what about
                            >Arcosanti? I think there is much that would be of use
                            >to the eco-living community but the more extreme
                            >interpretation of Arcologies is a turn off for many
                            >people. So i think we need to work on the idea of
                            >Arcology as a concept for remaking and rethinking our
                            >built environment, rather than as one man's specific
                            >architectural approach--well that is how i look at and
                            >promote it to others.
                            >
                            >Also the idea of multimedia content is important as a
                            >promotional tool in educating the general public as
                            >well as the countercultural community. Wes, the
                            >workshop coordinator at Arcosanti has been talking
                            >about creating local Arcology networks or chapters
                            >that could promote the relevance of Arcology through
                            >civic organizations, educational institutions,
                            >government and the media.
                            >
                            >I would be interested in discussing these issues in
                            >further detail with you or anyone else here.
                            >
                            >Jeff
                            >
                            >
                            >__________________________________
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                          • Dan Keram
                            Hi, whatever happened to the periodic updates of happenings and construction at Arcosanti? Does anyone know if there are plans AND funds to go to the next
                            Message 13 of 21 , Dec 30, 2004
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hi,
                              whatever happened to the periodic updates of
                              happenings and construction at Arcosanti?
                              Does anyone know if there are plans AND funds to go
                              to the next phase of construction?
                              For anyone who may live at the site, what is the
                              general conscensus on continuing the construction of
                              Arcosanti?
                              There is much talk about who will lead the project
                              after the passing of Paolo.....but as those potential
                              leaders are aging themselves, is there anyone in the
                              wings who might be 'groomed' for 3rd generation
                              leadership?

                              Finally, why is there so little (or nonexistent)input
                              from the hierarchy/community at Arcosanti on this
                              Arcology list?

                              Dan Keram

                              __________________________________________________
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                            • Randall Hunt
                              ... FWIW, in all the time I spent at Arcosanti (1971, 1975-81, 1996-98), I always thought it curious that of all the things people talked about, the topic of
                              Message 14 of 21 , Dec 30, 2004
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Along with other good questions, Dan asked:

                                >Finally, why is there so little (or nonexistent)input
                                >from the hierarchy/community at Arcosanti on this
                                >Arcology list?

                                FWIW, in all the time I spent at Arcosanti (1971, 1975-81, 1996-98), I
                                always thought it curious that of all the things people talked about, the
                                topic of arcology was extremely rare.
                              • Charles Provine
                                Hello Arcology Network, This is Charles Provine, the public relations coordinator at Arcosanti. Some may know me from my comments responding to emails in this
                                Message 15 of 21 , Jan 3, 2005
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Re: [arcology] q

                                  Hello Arcology Network,

                                  This is Charles Provine, the public relations coordinator at Arcosanti.  Some may know me from my comments responding to emails in this group.  I am dearly interested in the conversations you have here and saving most of the emails in my Paradox 4 folder...yes, I am interested in another Paradox conference here at Arcosanti.  

                                  We have had some questions regarding Arcosanti that I would like to address:


                                  Hi,
                                  whatever happened to the periodic updates of
                                  happenings and construction at Arcosanti?
                                  Does anyone know if there are plans AND funds to go
                                  to the next phase of construction?
                                  For anyone who may live at the site, what is the
                                  general consensus on continuing the construction of
                                  Arcosanti?
                                  There is much talk about who will lead the project
                                  after the passing of Paolo.....but as those potential
                                  leaders are aging themselves, is there anyone in the
                                  wings who might be 'groomed' for 3rd generation
                                  leadership?

                                  Finally, why is there so little (or nonexistent) input
                                  from the hierarchy/community at Arcosanti on this
                                  Arcology list?

                                  Dan Keram

                                  Hello Dan,

                                  We do have construction updates on the www.arcosanti.org website.  We do not send these updates out via email to the listserv right now, but I’ll get onto that project.  This is a very good idea to notify various interested parties of new updates to our website.  Currently, our construction manager is taking time off in Baha Mexico and installing solar technology with Dr. Sparks.  We will resume construction in February.  

                                  We do not have funds and I think our plans for the next stages of construction are to finish the east crescent complex, which looks about to be two years at least.  Our construction is slow moving due to financial problems and others that former residents here can address.  

                                  The general consensus from the site regarding continued construction of Arcosanti is varied depending on the people you converse.  Myself, I think we are at a critical juncture of make or break...we have been getting a lot of criticism from workshops about their experience and Paolo’s school of thought.  Maybe this has always been true, but the caliber of students coming is quite high recently and their concerns are certainly not addressed properly here to encourage more of the same people to come here or even stay on.

                                  Our only information about who will lead the project after Paolo is the general concept that the project will not dissolve and the Cosanti Foundation will continue as it had before with its board of directors and other leaders, with many positions shared by the same individuals on different teams.  *smile*, 3rd generation leadership would be interesting to talk about.  Just as nobody likes to discuss our inevitable life span, we are not talking about a 3rd generation here.  I am sure there would be a power vacuum to fill when that day comes around.  Paolo Soleri is very vibrant, energetic, and continues to swim every day during the season.  

                                  There is little and often nonexistent input from the hierarchy at Arcosanti.  I do not know why other than that our current residents consist of mostly new peoples and some much older residents who have been here at least 15 years.  That being said, there is a large information gap for those at Arcosanti to communicate.  We have a new website, www.arcommunity.org for the arcosanti community, but no one is posting to it right now.  I have to work with Jacob Schwartz to get some real information on there and help populate it with useful links on Arcology.  

                                  I can assure you that my coordination with this group will increase and I’ll find others to sign up on here for conversations.  I like the wiki site and think it serves as a great tool to sort our discussions into defined areas.  This is great.  

                                  Please feel free to email me personally at pr@....  I cannot give much more review and criticism of Arcosanti other than my comments above.  First, I really love it here and strive to maintain a positive mental attitude about this place to ensure I do not fail to put Arcosanti on the funding/tourism/education maps.  Second, I am the PR coordinator and cannot go negative or even appear negative on public forums.  I am available for personal visits to my residence, in East Housing.  You may remember East Housing as a party place or maybe even back enough as a nice place.  My partner, Jessica Stayton, and I have put a lot of energy into the place and are taking it to a great level so we can have tours run through there on the weekend.  

                                  More Below:


                                  On 12/30/04 12:30 PM, "Randall Hunt" <randhunt@...> wrote:

                                  Along with other good questions, Dan asked:

                                  >Finally, why is there so little (or nonexistent)input
                                  >from the hierarchy/community at Arcosanti on this
                                  >Arcology list?

                                  FWIW, in all the time I spent at Arcosanti (1971, 1975-81, 1996-98), I
                                  always thought it curious that of all the things people talked about, the
                                  topic of arcology was extremely rare.

                                  Hello Randall,

                                  You are correct, of all the things we talk about at Arcosanti, Arcology seems to be a topic that is not broached very often.  In fact, almost never as you can attest.  I am working with Ruth Claire to start a group that meets to talk about Arcology with the workshops in ‘05.  It is difficult to take away Paolo’s School of thought and proceed on something other than that to converse about Arcology.  However, it is on the way not as an alternative to School of Thought, but as an extension of SOT.  

                                  It would be interesting to have you come sometime in February to talk about Arcology.  I am going to make a kit of information for workshops and will certainly ask this group’s input here.

                                  Regards,

                                  Charles Provine






                                  Site of the month. Arcosanti
                                  http://www.arcosanti.org/




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                                  Charles Provine
                                  Public Relations Coordinator at Arcosanti
                                  (928) 632-6222
                                  (602) 405-3055 (cell)
                                  pr@...
                                  HC 74 Box 4136
                                  Mayer, Arizona 86333



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