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Neolithic burial site yields unique archaeological find

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  • Kim Noyes
    *Neolithic burial site yields unique archaeological find *Hungarian News Agency, April 23 2007 Archaeologists exploring a Neolithic burial site in Tolna
    Message 1 of 8 , May 1, 2007
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      *Neolithic burial site yields unique archaeological find
      *Hungarian News Agency, April 23 2007

      Archaeologists exploring a Neolithic burial site in Tolna County, S
      Hungary, have discovered what may easily be the most exciting tomb ever
      unearthed in Europe, Professor Istvan Zalai-Gaal, who has been leading
      the diggings, reported on Monday. The tomb is seven thousand years old
      and was the burial chamber of a tribal chieftain. There is a heavy
      upright log in each corner, believed to have originally held an
      aboveground structure over the two-metre by two-metre tomb. Inside, said
      Zalai-Gaal, archaeologists found polished stone axes and other stone
      tools typical of the late Stone Age, as well as the largest stone knife
      ever to be recovered from that period. They also discovered a decorated
      bullhorn, a marble war club and an axe head that though stone, bears the
      shape of a Bronze Age weapon. Scientists believe the tribe was aware of
      metal tools but did not have the metal to make any, leading them to copy
      the form. Also discovered was a necklace made of hundreds of bronze
      beads, combined with shells from the Mediterranean, the latter obviously
      traded goods, said Zalai- Gaal. One had to be extraordinarily wealthy to
      have a necklace like this, he pointed out.
      http://english.mti.hu/default.asp?menu=1&theme=2&cat=25&newsid=238796




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    • Joan Butcher
      Bronze beads circa 7Ka might be a tad early? Bob Kim Noyes wrote: *Neolithic burial site yields unique archaeological find *Hungarian News
      Message 2 of 8 , May 1, 2007
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        Bronze beads circa 7Ka might be a tad early?
        Bob

        Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@...> wrote:
        *Neolithic burial site yields unique archaeological find
        *Hungarian News Agency, April 23 2007

        Archaeologists exploring a Neolithic burial site in Tolna County, S
        Hungary, have discovered what may easily be the most exciting tomb ever
        unearthed in Europe, Professor Istvan Zalai-Gaal, who has been leading
        the diggings, reported on Monday. The tomb is seven thousand years old
        and was the burial chamber of a tribal chieftain. There is a heavy
        upright log in each corner, believed to have originally held an
        aboveground structure over the two-metre by two-metre tomb. Inside, said
        Zalai-Gaal, archaeologists found polished stone axes and other stone
        tools typical of the late Stone Age, as well as the largest stone knife
        ever to be recovered from that period. They also discovered a decorated
        bullhorn, a marble war club and an axe head that though stone, bears the
        shape of a Bronze Age weapon. Scientists believe the tribe was aware of
        metal tools but did not have the metal to make any, leading them to copy
        the form. Also discovered was a necklace made of hundreds of bronze
        beads, combined with shells from the Mediterranean, the latter obviously
        traded goods, said Zalai- Gaal. One had to be extraordinarily wealthy to
        have a necklace like this, he pointed out.
        http://english.mti.hu/default.asp?menu=1&theme=2&cat=25&newsid=238796

        --
        Check out my Myspace Profile at http://www.myspace.com/kimusinteruptus
        Check out http://www.atascaderoalumni.org if you attended Atascadero High
        School.
        Check out http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/hoaxesandmyths/?yguid=214877553
        Check out my late grandfather teach the Word of God at http://www.ttb.org

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      • Kim Noyes
        Yeah, that caught my eye, too. ... ========== [Moderator note: please edit your responses of all unnecessary text, or messages will start to be declined from
        Message 3 of 8 , May 1, 2007
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          Yeah, that caught my eye, too.

          On 5/1/07, Joan Butcher <bobandjoany@...> wrote:
          >
          > Bronze beads circa 7Ka might be a tad early?

          ==========
          [Moderator note: please edit your responses of all unnecessary text, or messages will start to be declined from now on until they are edited correctly]
        • LoukanisFamily
          Maybe they were traded from some more advanced place..like the Minoan civilization? Or is my timeline screwed here? lol.. Allison ... From: Joan Butcher
          Message 4 of 8 , May 1, 2007
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            Maybe they were traded from some more advanced place..like the Minoan
            civilization? Or is my timeline screwed here? lol.. Allison
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Joan Butcher" <bobandjoany@...>
            To: <archaeology2@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 3:17 PM
            Subject: Re: [Archaeology] Neolithic burial site yields unique
            archaeological find


            > Bronze beads circa 7Ka might be a tad early?
            > Bob
            >
            > Kim Noyes <kimnoyes@...> wrote:
            > *Neolithic burial site yields unique archaeological find
            > *Hungarian News Agency, April 23 2007
            >
            > Archaeologists exploring a Neolithic burial site in Tolna County, S
            > Hungary, have discovered what may easily be the most exciting tomb ever
            > unearthed in Europe, Professor Istvan Zalai-Gaal, who has been leading
            > the diggings, reported on Monday. The tomb is seven thousand years old
            > and was the burial chamber of a tribal chieftain. There is a heavy
            > upright log in each corner, believed to have originally held an
            > aboveground structure over the two-metre by two-metre tomb. Inside, said
            > Zalai-Gaal, archaeologists found polished stone axes and other stone
            > tools typical of the late Stone Age, as well as the largest stone knife
            > ever to be recovered from that period. They also discovered a decorated
            > bullhorn, a marble war club and an axe head that though stone, bears the
            > shape of a Bronze Age weapon. Scientists believe the tribe was aware of
            > metal tools but did not have the metal to make any, leading them to copy
            > the form. Also discovered was a necklace made of hundreds of bronze
            > beads, combined with shells from the Mediterranean, the latter obviously
            > traded goods, said Zalai- Gaal. One had to be extraordinarily wealthy to
            > have a necklace like this, he pointed out.
            > http://english.mti.hu/default.asp?menu=1&theme=2&cat=25&newsid=238796
            >
            > --
            > Check out my Myspace Profile at http://www.myspace.com/kimusinteruptus
            > Check out http://www.atascaderoalumni.org if you attended Atascadero High
            > School.
            > Check out http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/hoaxesandmyths/?yguid=214877553
            > Check out my late grandfather teach the Word of God at http://www.ttb.org
            >
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            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
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          • Joan Butcher
            Allison, To the best of my knowledge no culture in western Europe produced bronze circa 7Ka.Maybe Isabelle or Mikey could provide a more credible response? Bob
            Message 5 of 8 , May 1, 2007
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              Allison,
              To the best of my knowledge no culture in western Europe produced bronze circa 7Ka.Maybe Isabelle or Mikey could provide a more credible response?
              Bob


              Mod note: Everybody PLEASE try to delete irrelevant bits of text in a post :-) Thankies.
            • yvonr@earthlink.net
              My understanding is that the Greek and bronze age started around 3200 bce and that this was one of the earlier bronze ages. The article under discussion seems
              Message 6 of 8 , May 2, 2007
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                My understanding is that the Greek and bronze age started around 3200 bce
                and that this was one of the earlier bronze ages. The article under
                discussion seems to indicate someone had a bronze age a couple of millenia
                earlier than that.

                A good online summary of the Aegean timeline is at:
                http://projectsx.dartmouth.edu/history/bronze_age/chrono.html#9


                -Yvonne


                -----Original Message-----
                From: archaeology2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:archaeology2@yahoogroups.com]On
                Behalf Of Joan Butcher
                Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 7:33 PM
                To: archaeology2@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [Archaeology] Neolithic burial site yields unique
                archaeological find


                Allison,
                To the best of my knowledge no culture in western Europe produced bronze
                circa 7Ka.Maybe Isabelle or Mikey could provide a more credible response?
                Bob

                Mod note: Everybody PLEASE try to delete irrelevant bits of text in a post
                :-) Thankies.





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • kgarryh
                It would be interesting to see the results of analysis. I assume the beads were tested in some way. Trace element analysis like PIXE would indicate the
                Message 7 of 8 , May 2, 2007
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                  It would be interesting to see the results of analysis. I assume the
                  beads were tested in some way. Trace element analysis like PIXE would
                  indicate the existence or not, and percentages of, any alloys such as
                  tin. But bear in mind that in copper smelting, if sufficient
                  impurities such as arsenic or antimony from the ore are included, then
                  the artifact could be said to be a type of "accidental" bronze. So
                  perhaps this is what was quantified.

                  This early date warrants suspicion, of course--after all, doesn't it
                  come from a news article and not a peer-reviewed journal? The author
                  may have gotten it wrong.

                  On the other hand, we always have to be open to the possibility of
                  surprises in this field.

                  Kent
                • Mikey Brass
                  ... I have an inherent and well-worn distrust of newspaper reports on archaeological expeditions, especially reports containing elaborate and contradictory
                  Message 8 of 8 , May 2, 2007
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                    kgarryh wrote:

                    > This early date warrants suspicion, of course--after all, doesn't it
                    > come from a news article and not a peer-reviewed journal?

                    I have an inherent and well-worn distrust of newspaper reports on
                    archaeological expeditions, especially reports containing elaborate and
                    contradictory information. Until I see such material detailed in the
                    scientific literature, and it has withstood examination, I do not accept
                    a couple of remarks by an over-enthusiastic reporter.

                    --
                    Best, Mikey Brass
                    MA in Archaeology degree, University College London
                    "The Antiquity of Man" http://www.antiquityofman.com
                    Book: "The Antiquity of Man: Artifactual, fossil and gene records explored"

                    - !ke e: /xarra //ke
                    ("Diverse people unite": Motto of the South African Coat of Arms, 2002)
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