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32549to coptic_truth01 Re: [Zeitun-eg.org] ÓÄÇá Ýí ÇáÞÇäæä ÇáßäÓí

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  • arbible
    Aug 1, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      > ÞÇã ÈÇáÑÏ æÇáãäÇÞÔÉ æÇáÍæÇÑ ãÌãæÚÉ ãä ÇááÇåæÊííä ÇáÃÑËæÐßÓ
      Could you please name those people (and their affiliation(s)) for the
      sake of accountability and transparency? The currently missing
      authorship information on your site is severely undermining the
      objectivity and credibility of your opinions. (Please don't tell us
      that 'names are not important'!)
      God Bless.
      --- In arbible@yahoogroups.com, Coptic Truth <coptic_truth01@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > áÌäÉ ÇáÏÝÇÚ Úä ÇáÃÑËæÐßÓíÉ Ýí ÇáßäíÓÉ ÇáÞÈØíÉ
      > Coptic Truth
      > ÊÞæã ÈÇáÑÏ Úáì ÇáÇÊåÇãÇÊ ÇáãÒíÝÉ ÇáãæÌåÉ ÖÏ ÇáãÊäíÍ ÇáÃÈ ãÊíøó
      ÇáãÓßíä æÛíÑå ãä ÇááÇåæÊííä Úáì ãæÞÚäÇ ÇáÂÊí
      >
      > http://au.geocities.com/coptic_truth01/
      >
      > ÞÇã ÈÇáÑÏ æÇáãäÇÞÔÉ æÇáÍæÇÑ ãÌãæÚÉ ãä ÇááÇåæÊííä ÇáÃÑËæÐßÓ æÞÏ
      ÞÇãÊ ÈãÍÇæÑÉ ßá ãä
      > äíÇÝÉ ÇáÃäÈÇ íæÓÝ
      > äíÇÝÉ ÇáÃäÈÇ ÓÑÇÈíæä
      > äíÇÝÉ ÇáÃäÈÇ ÈíÔæí
      > ÞÏÇÓÉ ÇáÈÇÈÇ ÇáÃäÈÇ ÔäæÏÉ ÇáËÇáË
      > ÇáÍæÇÑ Ôãá ÍÊì ÇáÂä ãæÖæÚíä ÝÞØ åãÇ ÇáåÑØÞÇÊ Íæá ÓÑ ÇáÅÝÎÇÑÓÊíÇ
      æÇáÊÃáå
      > ÇáãæÞÚ ÊÍÊ ÇáÊÃÓíÓ æãÇ ÒÇá áÏíäÇ ãÞÇáÇÊ ßËíÑ É ÌÇÑí ÅÚÏÇÏåÇ ááäÔÑ
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > moheb saleb <mohebsaleb@...> wrote: ÓÄÇáí Ýí ÇáÞÇäæä
      ÇáßäíÓí ÇáÐí ÇÚÑÝ Ýíå ÇáÞáíá
      > åá íÍá áÇÓÞÝ Çí ßÇä ãÑÊÈÊå Çä íÏíä ßÊÇÈÇÊ ÇÍÏ Çæ ÇÝßÇÑ ÇÍÏ Çæ
      ÊÚÇáíã ÇÍÏ ÈÏæä ãÍÇßãå ÇáÇÝßÇÑ Úáí ãÓÊæí ÇáßäíÓå ßãÌãÚ
      > ÇáÇãÑ ÎØíÑ ÝÇä íßæä Úáã ÇááÇåæÊ åæ äÊÇÌ ÔÎÕ Ôí ÎØíÑ Çä íßæä
      ÔÎÕ æÇÍÏ åæ ÇáãÑÌÚ Ôí ÎØíÑ
      > ÇáßäíÓå ÇáßÇËæáßíå ÇáÈÇÈÇ íÞæá ÇááÚÙå ãßÊæÈå áå ãä áÇåæÊí
      ÇáßäíÓå Çí äÍä ãä Ðáß
      > ãÇåæ ÇáÝÑÞ Èíä ÇáÇÏÇäå ßÎØíå íÍÇÓÈ ÚáíåÇ ÇáãÓíÍ áÇäå ÊßÓíÑ Ýí
      ÇáßäíÓå ÌÓÏå æÈíä ÕÏ ÇáåÑÇØÞå ÇáíÓ åæ ãÌãÚ ÇáßäíÓå
      > Ëã áãÇÐÇ ÕäÚ ÇáãÌãÚ ÇáãÞÏÓ ÇáíÓ áåÐå ÇáÇãæÑ Çã
      > ááØáÈ ãä ÇáßÇåä Çä íáÈÓ ÔÑÇÈ ÈÔßá ÏÇÆã
      > ãÍÈ æÏíÚ
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > From: "Medhat Maurice" <pub_reltns1_m@...>
      > Reply-To: arbible@yahoogroups.com
      > To: <arbible@yahoogroups.com>
      > Subject: RE: [Zeitun-eg.org] H.E. Metropolitan Bishoy answer to
      questions about Fr. Matta El-Meskeen
      > Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 13:10:36 +0300
      >
      > æáÚáäì ÇÖíÝ Çäå ãä ÃÚÙã ÇááÇåæÊííä Ýì ÇáãÓíÍíÉ ãä ÑÈØ ÇáÊÚáíã
      æÇááÇåæÊ ÈÇáÍíÇÉ ÇáãÚÇÔÉ æÇáÊØÈíÞ ÇáÑæÍí æÇáÚãáí
      > ÈÏáÇ ãä ääÞÖ ÇáÑÌá ÇáÚÙíã ÇáÐí áå ãä ËãÇÑ ÇáÎÏãÉ æÇáæÒäÇä ÇáÑÇÆÚÉ
      ãÇ áÇ íÍÕì æáÇ íÚÏ ÊÚÇáæÇ äÊãËá ÈÓíÑÊåã æÅíãÇäåã æËãÇÑåã
      > íÇ áå ãä ÔÞÇÁ æÊÚÇÓÉ æÊÚÈ Çäå ÏÇÆãÇ äÑßÒ Úáì ÇáÌÒÁ ÇáÝÇÑÛ ãä ÇáßÃÓ

      > ÃÖã ÕæÊí Åáì ßá ãä äÕÍå áíÞÑÁÇ ÇáßÊÈ ÇáÊí ÃäÊÌåÇ ÃÈæäÇ ãÊì áíÊÚáã
      ßíÝ íÑÖì Çááå ßíÝ Çäå ßÇä íÈÔÑ ÈãÇ íÄãä Èå
      > áÊÏÚæäÇ ááÔÞÇÞ ÝÃäÊ ÇÕÛÑ ãä Ðáß ÈßËíÑ æáÇ ÊáÚÈ ÈÇáäÇÑ ÝÃäåÇ Ãæá ãÇ
      ÊáÓÚ ÞÏ ÊÍÑÞß ÃäÊ ÔÎÕíÇ
      > íÇ ÕÏíÞí Çääì ÃÎÇÝ Úáíß ãä íÏíäæäå åÐÇ ÇáÃÈ ÇáæÑÚ æÇáãÚáã ÇáÝÐ
      æÃÑÌæ Çä ÊÕáì Åä íÛÝÑ ÇáÑÈ áß æíÓÇãÍß æíÚØíß ãä ÔÈÚå æÏÓã ÈíÊå
      > æÇáÑÈ ãÚßã
      > ãÏÍÊ ãæÑíÓ
      >
      >
      > From: arbible@yahoogroups.com [mailto:arbible@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of Coptic By_Nature
      > Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 7:58 AM
      > To: arbible@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [Zeitun-eg.org] H.E. Metropolitan Bishoy answer to
      questions about Fr. Matta El-Meskeen
      >
      >
      > ÊÚÊÈÑ ßÊÇÈÇ Ê ÃÈæäÇ ãÊì ÇáãÓßíä åí ÃÚÙã ßÊÇÈÇÊ ÑæÍíÉ áÇåæÊíÉ
      ÃÑËæÐßÓíÉ ÕÏÑÊ ÈÇááÛÉ ÇáÚÑÈíÉ Úáì ÇáÅØáÇÞ. æÐáß ÈÔåÇÏÉ ÃÚÙã ÚáãÇÁ
      ÇááÇåæÊ ÇáÃÑËæÐßÓ Ýí ÇáÚÇáã. ÞÈá ÃÈæäÇ ãÊì ßÇäÊ ÇáßÊÇÈÇÊ ÇááÇåæÊíÉ
      ÇáÚÑÈíÉ Ýí ÇáßäíÓÉ ÇáÞÈØíÉ ÚÈÇÑÉ Úä ßÊÇÈÇÊ ÖÍáÉ æÊÎÈØ Èíä ÇáÝßÑ
      ÇáÈÑæÊæÓÊäÊí æÇáßÇËæáíßí æßáÇåãÇ ÝßÑ ÛÑÈí ÈÚíÏ ÊãÇãÇ Úä ÑæÍ ÇáÂÈÇÁ
      æÇáÊÞáíÏ ÇáßäÓí ÇáÃÑËæÐßÓí.
      >
      >
      >
      > ßá ãä íÊÔßß ÃÏÚæå áÞÑÇÁÉ ßÊÈ ÃÈæäÇ ãÊì ÇáÚãáÇÞÉ æÝÍÕåÇ áãÚÑÝÉ
      ãÏì ÚÙãÉ åÐå ÇáßÊÈ æãÏì ÇáÚØÇÁ æÇáÛäì ÇáÐí ÃÕÈÛå ÇáÑæÍ ÇáÞÏÓ Úáì åÐÇ
      ÇáÌíá ãä ÃÌá ÇÍÊíÇÌå.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Dalia Hanna <dalia_hanna7@...> wrote:
      > ÑÌÇÁ ÅÚáÇãäÇ ÈÃÓãÇÁ ÇáßÊÈ Ãæ ÇáãÞÇáÇÊ ÇáÊì ÃÊÓãÊ ÈÇáåÑØÞÉ æ
      ÇáãÛÇáØÇÊ ÇáãäÓæÈÉ Åáíå Ýì åÐÇ ÇáÍÏíË
      >
      > æ ÔßÑÇ
      >
      >
      > arbible <arbible@...> wrote:
      > Q:
      > You said that Sadat caused division in Egypt, and started
      fundamentalism. And it was
      >
      > a difficult time but now it has changed. But there is one problem
      with which did not
      > change and I think it started recently. I got to know that there
      is as I heard it a personal
      > conflict between one of the monks of the Makarios monastery and
      Papa Shenouda.
      > Metropolitan Bishoi:
      > Yes, Father Matta El-Miskeen is a very famous monk in Egypt and
      > during a certain period he was the father of confession of Pope
      Shenouda. But Pope
      > Shenouda was revising his books because Pope Shenouda was highly
      qualified in the
      > seminary while this monk was not. He was in monastic life before
      Pope Shenouda but
      > Pope Shenouda was more qualified theologically than him. His
      first book was about the
      > life of prayer and was revised by Pope Shenouda when he was still
      a layman and a
      > teacher in the seminary. Now this monk who was not educated in a
      theological school,
      > read many books and began writing strange doctrines from whatever
      he read, which he
      > published. He writes things against our teaching so he's causing
      much trouble for our
      > educated people who are reading his books and magazines. So the
      problem with this
      > monk is his teaching which has many mistakes and is contrary to
      the teaching of our
      > church. You cannot say that he a liberal theologian but you can
      say that he is a type of
      > heretical person. You know what happened in the fifth century
      between St. Peter of
      > Alexandria and Nestorius of Constantinopel. So Nestorius was not
      a liberal theologian
      > but he was a heretical teacher. So heretical teaching is not
      always liberal theology but
      > sometimes he is also liberal. But it is not his only problem.
      I'll give you one example
      > about his teaching. He says that on Pentecost fifty days after
      the resurrection of our Lord,
      > the Holy Spirit came on the church. He says the divine nature of
      God was united to the
      > human nature at that day exactly as it happened in the
      incarnation of the Son of God
      > when He was born of the virgin Mary. Divinity of humanity was
      united together. So
      > Jesus Christ is God who became man, but how can I say that St.
      Peter or St. Paul or St.
      > John, became the same as Jesus Christ on Pentecost? Divine nature
      united to human
      > nature. So the incarnation for him magnified that which started
      in Him in Bethlehem and
      > was reaching its peak on Pentecost. So this is heretical teaching
      because he is saying that
      > any Christian is equal to Jesus Christ the Son of God and we
      don't accept that. You
      > cannot see this in the Catholic church, in the Protestant church,
      nobody can accept this I
      > think. So we are having a problem with this person because of his
      erroneous teaching.
      > At the time of Sadat he tried to take advantage of the opposition
      between Sadat and the
      > church because of terrorism in Egypt, the fundamentalist movement
      and attacks on the
      > churches and the Copts and he tried also to apply Islamic sharia
      in Egypt which we didn't
      > accept at that time like what happened in the Sudan. So he took
      the chance and made an
      > alliance with Sadat against the church and it was very shameful
      for him. He lost most of
      > his popularity among our people.
      > Q:
      > So what can you do in a case like this? You say he does not
      belong to the Coptic
      > church from what he is saying. Is there anything you can do in
      this situation?
      > Metropolitan Bishoi:
      > We responded to his teaching. What he has done with Sadat was
      > over because Sadat was killed one month after what he had done.
      He couldn't continue
      > his plans so everything ended but his teaching is still wrong.
      What we are doing is to
      > respond to his teaching and to spread the correct teaching
      everywhere by His Holiness
      > Pope Shenouda and also our bishops and theologians and priests.
      We speak openly to the
      > people. Another thing is that some of his disciples are repeating
      his erroneous teaching or
      > going into other areas to publish it in magazines. He published
      his teachings in books, but
      > they publish in magazines but more detailed. So there can be a
      trial for his disciples in the
      > church. But since he [Father Matta] is an elder, we find it
      difficult to do more than what
      > we are doing now, we find it is enough to officially renounce
      this. Sometimes we inform
      > the Holy Synod about his erroneous teaching but we don't want to
      have a confrontation
      > with him personally but perhaps some of his disciples may be
      judged by the church.
      > Q:
      > Is this also why his books are not available in churches?
      > Metropolitan Bishoi:
      > Of course, because they have erroneous teaching. It goes against
      > the common Christian belief. No wise Christian person would
      accept that he is equal to
      > Jesus Christ. Why are we worshipping Jesus Christ when we are
      equal to him? It is a mad
      > idea! So this is a complete distruction of Christianity. Because
      how can we be equal to
      > the Son of God, one of the Holy Trinity, Father, Son and the Holy
      Spirit. That is what I
      > think. What is the view of Christianity in front of non-
      Christians when we say that we are
      > Gods like Jesus Christ. They are accusing us that we are heretics
      because we are speaking
      > about a God who became Man. But now what will they say about man
      who became god?
      > If you are heretical because you believe that Jesus Christ is
      God, who is the eternal Son
      > of God, what can they say if I say that you are God also?
      > Q:
      > So this was all the discussed by the Holy Synod?
      > Metropolitan Bishoi:
      > It is not yet discussed in the Holy Synod but it is discussed in
      the
      > seminary and in everywhere in our churches and nobody accepts
      this, especially bishops.
      > Q:
      > You just said that some of his disciples may face a trial, and
      that also there are no
      > bishops appointed from the monastery of Makarios?
      > Metropolitan Bishoi:
      > Yes, of course there are some bishops who were in St. Makarios
      > Monastery who came here [in the Monastery of Bishoi]. They
      transferred and after some
      > years they became bishops. We have about four of that type, no so
      many.
      > Q:
      > You took them back also? You welcomed them?
      > Metropolitan Bishoi:
      > Yes.
      >
      > Source:
      > Interview with Metropolitan Bishoi, Secretary of the Holy Synod
      of the Coptic
      > Orthodox Church, November 14, 2002
      > Author (transcribed and edited by): Rick Anderson
      > [Interview conducted by Heike Schmidt, ZDF, German TV].
      > http://www.cawu.org/cawu_docs/Coptic%20Orthodox%20Christianity%
      20in%20Egypt.pdf
      >
      > ---------------------------------
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