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Re: [aprsisce] APRSISCE Mobile

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  • Lynn W. Deffenbaugh
    ... There may not have been a bi-directional IGate nearby, but there sure is a strange-behaving APRS environment revolving around K9JVA! ... That would be your
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 11, 2010
    Stan Leeds wrote:
    > This test run ran great overall. Obvious I couldn't do too much due to
    > driving. Also I see that you received my test meassage, so I think you
    > are correct there is no bi-directional gate near by.
    >

    There may not have been a bi-directional IGate nearby, but there sure is
    a strange-behaving APRS environment revolving around K9JVA!

    > A funny thing though was indicated on the scrolling station list.
    > Normally KC7EHJ-3 was black letters, red highlight, red pickup icon.
    >

    That would be your station cruising along really close to you. I'm
    assuming -3 was APRSIS32 based on the APWW00 ToCall in my raw packet
    capture. Did you also have the T2-135 beaconing on its own? If so,
    what -SSID was it using? It appears from aprs.fi that -3 was the only
    tracker on your route, but I want to be sure.

    > However my daughter asked how come there are two KC7EHJ-3s?
    > Sure enough there was a black lettered no highlight, red car icon with
    > my -3 call and it was listed multiple times on the way home from work @
    > 5:29pm EST.
    >

    I don't see anything in my raw capture (attached) that would have caused
    that definitively, but there was a bunch of delayed duplicate packets
    happening at that time that may have been the culprit.

    > I noticed on APRS.FI RAW that there were a number of Duplicate and/or
    > Location changes too fast, so I don't know if those may have been a
    > cause or effect???
    >

    What's even more interesting is that aprs.fi doesn't have as many or
    even the same packets as my North American raw packet capture had. I've
    extracted your callsign from the 5:00 trip this afternoon and attached
    it. Since APRSIS32 includes a timestamp in each packet, you can readily
    tell the ones that were delayed duplicates. However, I'm really
    confused by several things in this log.

    1) Were you running APRSIS32 with some form of mobile Internet
    connection? If so, what APRS-IS server was it connected to? There are
    numerous packets in the log that claim to have been a TCPIP* path gating
    through K9JVA, but when I look at that station, it appears to be some
    sort of deranged Digi/Igate combination station that can't even transmit
    it's OWN packets with accurate times. Check out its raw packets
    (http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=K9JVA) and see how varied the timestamps are
    (right after the colon and up to the z). The z format is ddhhmm, but
    when adjacent packets think it is two different DATES? Somethings wrong
    there.

    2010-03-12 03:45:12 UTC: K9JVA>APRS,TCPIP*,qAC,CORE-2:@120345z3911.67N/08421.95W_180/002g008t055r000p020P020b10028h00.WD 26
    2010-03-12 03:47:55 UTC: K9JVA>APAGW,WIDE2-2,qAR,KG8AP:@112247z3911.67N/08421.95W_172/003g006t055r000p020P020h99b10028 Madeira OH WX
    2010-03-12 04:00:11 UTC: K9JVA>APRS,TCPIP*,qAC,THIRD:@120400z3911.67N/08421.95W_172/002g007t055r000p020P020b10028h00.WD 26
    2010-03-12 04:02:55 UTC: K9JVA>APAGW,WIDE2-2,qAR,K9DRT-10:@112302z3911.67N/08421.95W_180/002g003t055r000p020P020h99b10028 Madeira OH WX


    It almost looks like there's TWO stations running different software
    with different date/time settings.

    2) The strangeness I see in your packets is an amazing amount of
    duplication going on. If you scan down through the timestamps on the
    packets, you can see 2 and even 3 packet duplications coming in via
    different routes. And the strangest thing is that many times the LATER
    packet is delivered via TCPIP* by K9JVA. This just isn't right.

    I'm not sure what's going on up in your neck of the woods, but something
    definitely doesn't smell right in those APRS-IS packet logs.

    Can you zip up and e-mail me all of the APRSIS32*.log files from your
    default directory? The client automatically retains the most recent 10
    of these and I'm hoping I can learn more by seeing what APRSIS32 might
    have been complaining about at the time that these duplicate packets
    were zipping around.

    Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Confused as ever!

    PS. I looked at another station in your neighborhood, AB8YK-2, and his
    raw packets look just as confusing with timestamps duplicated and
    delayed all over the place (http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=AB8YK-2).
    There's definitely something bad going on up there!

    And this is all right outside Dayton? We need to get whatever it is
    FIXED before the Amateur Radio World descends on the city in a few months!
  • James Ewen
    ... While you re cleaning up around Dayton, can you fix the rest of the world? There are hundreds of misconfigured APRS stations out there, including
    Message 2 of 16 , Mar 11, 2010
      On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 9:29 PM, Lynn W. Deffenbaugh <kj4erj@...> wrote:

      > There's definitely something bad going on up there!
      >
      > And this is all right outside Dayton?  We need to get whatever it is
      > FIXED before the Amateur Radio World descends on the city in a few months!

      While you're cleaning up around Dayton, can you fix the rest of the
      world? There are hundreds of misconfigured APRS stations out there,
      including digipeaters and i-gates.

      The Kantronics KPC-3 has issues in KISS mode that cause delays in the
      order of minutes on packets passing through them that needs to be
      fixed, but no fix is forthcoming from Kantronics on that...

      James
      VE6SRV
    • Stan Leeds
      ... I ll get it sent out this Friday evening. Stan/KC7EHJ
      Message 3 of 16 , Mar 12, 2010
        Lynn W. Deffenbaugh wrote:
        > <
        > That would be your station cruising along really close to you. I'm
        > assuming -3 was APRSIS32 based on the APWW00 ToCall in my raw packet
        > capture. Did you also have the T2-135 beaconing on its own? If so,
        > what -SSID was it using? It appears from aprs.fi that -3 was the only
        > tracker on your route, but I want to be sure.
        >
        > >>> I will have to look it up, but I think that when you run the T2s (mine T2-135) even in KISS, the basic functionality of the T2 still sends out packets unless you do some reconfiguring, so that may be that.
        >
        > Can you zip up and e-mail me all of the APRSIS32*.log files from your
        > default directory? The client automatically retains the most recent 10
        > of these and I'm hoping I can learn more by seeing what APRSIS32 might
        > have been complaining about at the time that these duplicate packets
        > were zipping around.
        >
        >
        I'll get it sent out this Friday evening.

        Stan/KC7EHJ
      • Lynn W. Deffenbaugh
        ... Yeah, and one of my missions is to make them more visible in APRSISCE/32 so that that local users can do something about them. That s what View /
        Message 4 of 16 , Mar 12, 2010
          James Ewen wrote:
          > On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 9:29 PM, Lynn W. Deffenbaugh <kj4erj@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >> There's definitely something bad going on up there!
          >>
          >> And this is all right outside Dayton? We need to get whatever it is
          >> FIXED before the Amateur Radio World descends on the city in a few months!
          >>
          >
          > While you're cleaning up around Dayton, can you fix the rest of the
          > world? There are hundreds of misconfigured APRS stations out there,
          > including digipeaters and i-gates.
          >

          Yeah, and one of my missions is to make them more visible in APRSISCE/32
          so that that local users can do something about them. That's what View /
          Duplicates and view / Invalids is for. If you see lots of colored boxes
          on your screen, there's a delaying Digi or IGate in the area. A few is
          normal, but lots has been indicating an issue. I've got a ToDo to work
          on determining the likely source of the duplicates real-time and
          highlighting it somehow.

          > The Kantronics KPC-3 has issues in KISS mode that cause delays in the
          > order of minutes on packets passing through them that needs to be
          > fixed, but no fix is forthcoming from Kantronics on that...
          >

          Our own local WC4PEM (for which I am NOT responsible, but I know who is)
          does this sometimes. The operator is always very nice about getting it
          restarted. He restarts the KPC-3+ routinely every week or so, but
          sometimes it still gets away from him. When I see the dots begin to
          appear in Central Florida, I drop him an e-mail and it get fixed quickly.

          So yes, I'm hoping to give the APRS community a better way to see the
          situation developing, sooner and easier than someone noticing a bunch of
          rejected raw packets at aprs.fi!

          Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ

          > James
          > VE6SRV
          >
          >
        • Stan Leeds
          Lynn and all, Yes I was correct. When interfacing the T2s to another device and you do not want the T2 to do any brain work, ie. send any packets, then you
          Message 5 of 16 , Mar 12, 2010
            Lynn and all,

            Yes I was correct. When interfacing the T2s to another device and you do not want the T2 to do any brain work, ie. send any packets, then you must set your Interval to 0 (INT 0) and turn off Waypoints (WAY OFF), now send it into KISS (AMODE KISS for me). My bad obviously!

            As for networking. As far as I can tell the wireless card is DISABLED. So there should be no network access while mobile.

            So with my T2 and wireless properly configured, lets review tonights ride home from work just after 5pm EST and pardon the stop for TGIFs.
            And according to my daughter, who helped watch, we did not see KC7EHJ-3 with the small red car icon.

            I sent you my zipped logs to you directly as requested.

            As far as the APRS network on this north of town, I'll do any leg work required if some one out there will help with the brain work on deciphering, on what may be going on.

            Stan/KC7EHJ-3



            Stan Leeds wrote:
            > Lynn W. Deffenbaugh wrote:
            >
            >> <
            >> That would be your station cruising along really close to you. I'm
            >> assuming -3 was APRSIS32 based on the APWW00 ToCall in my raw packet
            >> capture. Did you also have the T2-135 beaconing on its own? If so,
            >> what -SSID was it using? It appears from aprs.fi that -3 was the only
            >> tracker on your route, but I want to be sure.
            >>
            >>
            >>>>> I will have to look it up, but I think that when you run the T2s (mine T2-135) even in KISS, the basic functionality of the T2 still sends out packets unless you do some reconfiguring, so that may be that.
            >>>>>
            >> Can you zip up and e-mail me all of the APRSIS32*.log files from your
            >> default directory? The client automatically retains the most recent 10
            >> of these and I'm hoping I can learn more by seeing what APRSIS32 might
            >> have been complaining about at the time that these duplicate packets
            >> were zipping around.
            >>
            >>
            >>
            > I'll get it sent out this Friday evening.
            >
            > Stan/KC7EHJ
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Fred Hillhouse Jr
            Hi Stan, I am connected to a T2 as well. Since it runs mostly all the time, with and without a laptop connected, I chose to leave the T2 running its regular
            Message 6 of 16 , Mar 13, 2010
              Hi Stan,

              I am connected to a T2 as well. Since it runs mostly all the time, with and
              without a laptop connected, I chose to leave the T2 running its regular
              configuration.

              I have APRSIS32 beaconing about every 10 minutes mainly to show activity
              there. Since APRSIS32 lets the world it does massaging, I thought it would
              be useful to at least beacon on occasion. I am still messing with the
              setting to get what I think I am looking for.

              Have fun!

              Best regards,
              Fred


              -----Original Message-----
              From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
              Of Stan Leeds
              Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 7:24 PM
              To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [aprsisce] APRSISCE Mobile

              Lynn and all,

              Yes I was correct. When interfacing the T2s to another device and you do
              not want the T2 to do any brain work, ie. send any packets, then you must
              set your Interval to 0 (INT 0) and turn off Waypoints (WAY OFF), now send it
              into KISS (AMODE KISS for me). My bad obviously!

              As for networking. As far as I can tell the wireless card is DISABLED. So
              there should be no network access while mobile.

              So with my T2 and wireless properly configured, lets review tonights ride
              home from work just after 5pm EST and pardon the stop for TGIFs.
              And according to my daughter, who helped watch, we did not see KC7EHJ-3 with
              the small red car icon.

              I sent you my zipped logs to you directly as requested.

              As far as the APRS network on this north of town, I'll do any leg work
              required if some one out there will help with the brain work on deciphering,
              on what may be going on.

              Stan/KC7EHJ-3



              Stan Leeds wrote:
              > Lynn W. Deffenbaugh wrote:
              >
              >> <
              >> That would be your station cruising along really close to you. I'm
              >> assuming -3 was APRSIS32 based on the APWW00 ToCall in my raw packet
              >> capture. Did you also have the T2-135 beaconing on its own? If so,
              >> what -SSID was it using? It appears from aprs.fi that -3 was the only
              >> tracker on your route, but I want to be sure.
              >>
              >>
              >>>>> I will have to look it up, but I think that when you run the T2s (mine
              T2-135) even in KISS, the basic functionality of the T2 still sends out
              packets unless you do some reconfiguring, so that may be that.
              >>>>>
              >> Can you zip up and e-mail me all of the APRSIS32*.log files from your
              >> default directory? The client automatically retains the most recent 10
              >> of these and I'm hoping I can learn more by seeing what APRSIS32 might
              >> have been complaining about at the time that these duplicate packets
              >> were zipping around.
              >>
              >>
              >>
              > I'll get it sent out this Friday evening.
              >
              > Stan/KC7EHJ
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >



              ------------------------------------

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            • Stan Leeds
              Fred, Thanks and that may be the way I ll have this set up in future once I install it in my wife s van (and I may have to touch base with you on how
              Message 7 of 16 , Mar 13, 2010
                Fred,

                Thanks and that may be the way I'll have this set up in future once I
                install it in my wife's van (and I may have to touch base with you on
                how exactualy).

                But what I was seeing was my -3 (APRSIS32) with a small red truck as the
                icon running and would see it digi'd while mobile (thats good).

                Every now and again I would see another -3 with the little red car icon
                show on the station list (thats curious).

                So I went back and made the changes to the T2 to let the computer do all
                the controlling. Well I just looked at my T2 DISP command responses
                (that I saved before the changes) and I have it configured for a blue
                van icon and it is a -9.... (thats weird)

                The plot thickens... and 73,
                Stan/KC7EHJ


                Fred Hillhouse Jr wrote:
                >
                >
                > Hi Stan,
                >
                > I am connected to a T2 as well. Since it runs mostly all the time,
                > with and
                > without a laptop connected, I chose to leave the T2 running its regular
                > configuration.
                >
                > I have APRSIS32 beaconing about every 10 minutes mainly to show activity
                > there. Since APRSIS32 lets the world it does massaging, I thought it would
                > be useful to at least beacon on occasion. I am still messing with the
                > setting to get what I think I am looking for.
                >
                > Have fun!
                >
                > Best regards,
                > Fred
                >
              • Stan Leeds
                I made contact with Brian, K9JVA. and he is running AGWTracker to collect calls and map everything, and AGWUIDIGI to digipeat and gate to ARPS-IS. He said he
                Message 8 of 16 , Mar 13, 2010
                  I made contact with Brian, K9JVA. and he is running AGWTracker to
                  collect calls and map everything, and AGWUIDIGI to digipeat and gate to
                  ARPS-IS.

                  He said he will look into making one of them with a different SSID. I
                  suggested the AGWTracker. He was very pleasant to correspond with.

                  Stan/KC7EHJ


                  Lynn W. Deffenbaugh wrote:
                  > *** snipped ***
                  >
                  >
                  > 1) Were you running APRSIS32 with some form of mobile Internet
                  > connection? If so, what APRS-IS server was it connected to? There are
                  > numerous packets in the log that claim to have been a TCPIP* path gating
                  > through K9JVA, but when I look at that station, it appears to be some
                  > sort of deranged Digi/Igate combination station that can't even transmit
                  > it's OWN packets with accurate times. Check out its raw packets
                  > (http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=K9JVA) and see how varied the timestamps are
                  > (right after the colon and up to the z). The z format is ddhhmm, but
                  > when adjacent packets think it is two different DATES? Somethings wrong
                  > there.
                  >
                  > 2010-03-12 03:45:12 UTC: K9JVA>APRS,TCPIP*,qAC,CORE-2:@120345z3911.67N/08421.95W_180/002g008t055r000p020P020b10028h00.WD 26
                  > 2010-03-12 03:47:55 UTC: K9JVA>APAGW,WIDE2-2,qAR,KG8AP:@112247z3911.67N/08421.95W_172/003g006t055r000p020P020h99b10028 Madeira OH WX
                  > 2010-03-12 04:00:11 UTC: K9JVA>APRS,TCPIP*,qAC,THIRD:@120400z3911.67N/08421.95W_172/002g007t055r000p020P020b10028h00.WD 26
                  > 2010-03-12 04:02:55 UTC: K9JVA>APAGW,WIDE2-2,qAR,K9DRT-10:@112302z3911.67N/08421.95W_180/002g003t055r000p020P020h99b10028 Madeira OH WX
                  >
                  >
                  > It almost looks like there's TWO stations running different software
                  > with different date/time settings.
                  >
                  >
                • Lynn W. Deffenbaugh
                  ... AGWTracker? Or APRSIS32? ;o Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ
                  Message 9 of 16 , Mar 13, 2010
                    Stan Leeds wrote:
                    > He said he will look into making one of them with a different SSID. I
                    > suggested the AGWTracker. He was very pleasant to correspond with.
                    >

                    AGWTracker? Or APRSIS32? ;o

                    Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ

                    > Stan/KC7EHJ
                    >
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