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Blocking your own ssid

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  • Mark Burfield
    Did try to search to see if i could find an answer to this but im running APRSIS32 with a kenwood D710. My position goes out and then is digipeated back to me
    Message 1 of 16 , Dec 29, 2010
      Did try to search to see if i could find an answer to this but im running APRSIS32 with a kenwood D710.
       
      My position goes out and then is digipeated back to me and i obviously receive it first coming back to me and forward it to IS from RF.
       
      Obviously doing this when i check something like APRS.FI it looks like my packet data has not been received by anyone so wondering if i can block my own ssid of MM1MPB so i no longer forward my own received position data to IS.
       
      Any help would be much appreciated.
      Mark
      MM1MPB
    • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
      Remember that APRS-IS is NOT an RF coverage tool. It is a collection and data transport network designed to allow APRS traffic to be viewed in realtime across
      Message 2 of 16 , Dec 29, 2010
        Remember that APRS-IS is NOT an RF coverage tool. It is a collection
        and data transport network designed to allow APRS traffic to be viewed
        in realtime across the planet. As such, it automatically suppresses
        redundantly received duplicate packets within a duplicate detection time
        period (typically 30 seconds) causing only the first delivered copy of
        the packet to appear on APRS-IS and subsequently in the various APRS-IS
        databases.

        That being said, I do have long-term plans to support configurable
        options on what locally-generated packets go out which port including
        APRS-IS. When I get this done, you'll be able to say, for instance, put
        Beacons over RF only, but put Telemetry, Status, and Capabilities over
        both. You can already do this with objects between RF and -IS ports.

        But remember, if you decide, when the capability is there, not to inject
        some type of locally-generated packet into APRS-IS directly, and
        perchance it is not relayed to some other remote IGate (or a digipeat
        heard back by your own IGate), then that packet will have disappeared
        (literally) into the Ether. I'd strongly discourage this practice as
        the point of the packet to start with is the delivery of information to
        ALL observers, not necessarily just local RF nor exclusively -IS viewers.

        Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

        PS. Eventually there'll be local reception reports directly available
        in APRSISCE/32, but in the meantime you can send ?APRSH <Station> as a
        message and receive an hourly packet count for that station. However,
        it does NOT include your own station hearing itself via a remote digi.
        Maybe I'll have to support that...

        Mark Burfield wrote:
        >
        >
        > Did try to search to see if i could find an answer to this but im
        > running APRSIS32 with a kenwood D710.
        >
        > My position goes out and then is digipeated back to me and i obviously
        > receive it first coming back to me and forward it to IS from RF.
        >
        > Obviously doing this when i check something like APRS.FI it looks like
        > my packet data has not been received by anyone so wondering if i can
        > block my own ssid of MM1MPB so i no longer forward my own received
        > position data to IS.
        >
        > Any help would be much appreciated.
        > Mark
        > MM1MPB
        >
        >
        >
      • Mark Burfield
        Thanks Lynn i know you answered this one off group as well. Keep up the good work. ... From: Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com Sent:
        Message 3 of 16 , Dec 29, 2010
          Thanks Lynn i know you answered this one off group as well.
           
          Keep up the good work.
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 5:38 PM
          Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Blocking your own ssid

           

          Remember that APRS-IS is NOT an RF coverage tool. It is a collection
          and data transport network designed to allow APRS traffic to be viewed
          in realtime across the planet. As such, it automatically suppresses
          redundantly received duplicate packets within a duplicate detection time
          period (typically 30 seconds) causing only the first delivered copy of
          the packet to appear on APRS-IS and subsequently in the various APRS-IS
          databases.

          That being said, I do have long-term plans to support configurable
          options on what locally-generated packets go out which port including
          APRS-IS. When I get this done, you'll be able to say, for instance, put
          Beacons over RF only, but put Telemetry, Status, and Capabilities over
          both. You can already do this with objects between RF and -IS ports.

          But remember, if you decide, when the capability is there, not to inject
          some type of locally-generated packet into APRS-IS directly, and
          perchance it is not relayed to some other remote IGate (or a digipeat
          heard back by your own IGate), then that packet will have disappeared
          (literally) into the Ether. I'd strongly discourage this practice as
          the point of the packet to start with is the delivery of information to
          ALL observers, not necessarily just local RF nor exclusively -IS viewers.

          Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

          PS. Eventually there'll be local reception reports directly available
          in APRSISCE/32, but in the meantime you can send ?APRSH <Station> as a
          message and receive an hourly packet count for that station. However,
          it does NOT include your own station hearing itself via a remote digi.
          Maybe I'll have to support that...

          Mark Burfield wrote:
          >
          >
          > Did try to search to see if i could find an answer to this but im
          > running APRSIS32 with a kenwood D710.
          >
          > My position goes out and then is digipeated back to me and i obviously
          > receive it first coming back to me and forward it to IS from RF.
          >
          > Obviously doing this when i check something like APRS.FI it looks like
          > my packet data has not been received by anyone so wondering if i can
          > block my own ssid of MM1MPB so i no longer forward my own received
          > position data to IS.
          >
          > Any help would be much appreciated.
          > Mark
          > MM1MPB
          >
          >
          >

        • Kevin Bosworth - W7BOZ
          Are you familiar with NOGATE and RFONLY used in the path? This tells I-gates not too forward to IS. I use it with my Dx Cluster packets. Kevin W7boz Sent from
          Message 4 of 16 , Dec 30, 2010
            Are you familiar with NOGATE and RFONLY used in the path? This tells I-gates not too forward to IS. I use it with my Dx Cluster packets.
            Kevin
            W7boz

            Sent from my APRS HTC Mogul phone running Aprsisce. http://aprs.fi/?call=w7boz-12
          • g4ilo
            I think Mark wanted his packets gated by other people s IGates not his own, without having to disable his own IGate to do so. It s a fairly common request.
            Message 5 of 16 , Dec 31, 2010
              I think Mark wanted his packets gated by other people's IGates not his own, without having to disable his own IGate to do so. It's a fairly common request. People are interested to see what other stations are receiving them. Unfortunately there is no satisfactory solution to that problem. Even if you did disable or delay gating of one's own packets, if more than one station gates you aprs.fi will only show you the first one.

              Isn't there an APRS query you can send out to ALL which stations are supposed to respond to after a random delay to avoid QRMing each other?

              Julian, G4ILO

              --- In aprsisce@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Bosworth - W7BOZ <w7boz@...> wrote:
              >
              > Are you familiar with NOGATE and RFONLY used in the path? This tells I-gates not too forward to IS. I use it with my Dx Cluster packets.
              > Kevin
              > W7boz
              >
            • Ian Wade G3NRW
              From: g4ilo Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 Time: 09:38:56 ... Julian, Would the general ?APRS? Query (with optional targeted footprint) help
              Message 6 of 16 , Dec 31, 2010
                From: g4ilo <julian.g4ilo@...>
                Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 Time: 09:38:56

                >Isn't there an APRS query you can send out to ALL which stations are
                >supposed to respond to after a random delay to avoid QRMing each other?
                >
                >Julian, G4ILO
                >

                Julian,

                Would the general ?APRS? Query (with optional targeted footprint) help
                here? See page 78 of the APRS Specification at:

                http://www.tapr.org/aprs_working_group.html

                --
                73
                Ian, G3NRW
              • Mark Burfield
                Jullian hit the nail right on the head. I still wanted to gate to IS other stations heard just not my own but as lynn pointed out it cant be done yet but may
                Message 7 of 16 , Dec 31, 2010
                  Jullian hit the nail right on the head. I still wanted to gate to IS other stations heard just not my own but as lynn pointed out it cant be done yet but may change in the future.
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Friday, December 31, 2010 10:06 AM
                  Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Re: Blocking your own ssid

                   

                  From: g4ilo <julian.g4ilo@...>
                  Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 Time: 09:38:56

                  >Isn't there an APRS query you can send out to ALL which stations are
                  >supposed to respond to after a random delay to avoid QRMing each other?
                  >
                  >Julian, G4ILO
                  >

                  Julian,

                  Would the general ?APRS? Query (with optional targeted footprint) help
                  here? See page 78 of the APRS Specification at:

                  http://www.tapr.org/aprs_working_group.html

                  --
                  73
                  Ian, G3NRW

                • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
                  I m familiar with it and have not yet implemented either of them. They are on the list to complete the Igate function in APRSISCE/32, but I m sure you re
                  Message 8 of 16 , Dec 31, 2010
                    I'm familiar with it and have not yet implemented either of them. They
                    are on the list to complete the Igate function in APRSISCE/32, but I'm
                    sure you're aware that there were discussions on one of the APRS lists a
                    few months ago how those path elements are not guarantees of any sort of
                    privacy or non-recording of APRS packets, but simply requests for the same.

                    There was an individual asking for a way to delete a recorded track from
                    "APRS" as well as a way to support tracking with a guarantee of
                    non-recording of the transmitted information. He was informed of the
                    "request" status of those path components and recommended that he not
                    transmit (in the clear, as required by amateur rules) any information
                    that he didn't want to come back to haunt him. (paraphrasing loosely
                    his implied intent).

                    Can you send me a copy of your DX cluster packets that are currently
                    NOGATE? Or just take NOGATE off for a while and I'll capture them via
                    APRS-IS. I'm trying to develop some viewer (and generator) of DX
                    packets, but there's a positive dearth of documentation and samples out
                    there.

                    Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

                    Kevin Bosworth - W7BOZ wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Are you familiar with NOGATE and RFONLY used in the path? This tells
                    > I-gates not too forward to IS. I use it with my Dx Cluster packets.
                    > Kevin
                    > W7boz
                    >
                    > Sent from my APRS HTC Mogul phone running Aprsisce.
                    > http://aprs.fi/?call=w7boz-12
                    >
                    >
                  • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
                    Without any quoted material, I lost the context on this one until I saw my own reply and tied it together with the subject. NOGATE and RFONLY will not help the
                    Message 9 of 16 , Dec 31, 2010
                      Without any quoted material, I lost the context on this one until I saw
                      my own reply and tied it together with the subject.

                      NOGATE and RFONLY will not help the original request because he DOES
                      want to know if other stations received and gated his packets. Adding
                      one of these path components will remove the visibility of that
                      reception just as effectively as the APRS-IS duplicate filter that
                      Julian has already mentioned.

                      It all comes back to "APRS is NOT an RF coverage system". The dupe
                      filters are designed to prevent exactly the kind of multiple reception
                      reports that you'd like to hear. APRS delivers a single copy of any
                      packet, world-wide. You'll have to find (or develop) another solution
                      to determine how far and wide your packets are actually ranging on RF.

                      Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

                      Kevin Bosworth - W7BOZ wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Are you familiar with NOGATE and RFONLY used in the path? This tells
                      > I-gates not too forward to IS. I use it with my Dx Cluster packets.
                      > Kevin
                      > W7boz
                      >
                      > Sent from my APRS HTC Mogul phone running Aprsisce.
                      > http://aprs.fi/?call=w7boz-12
                      >
                      >
                    • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
                      That query came up in a conversion with another station just yesterday. Do you know what the raw packet format is for said query? Do you just send it as an
                      Message 10 of 16 , Dec 31, 2010
                        That query came up in a conversion with another station just yesterday.
                        Do you know what the raw packet format is for said query? Do you just
                        send it as an APRS message addressed to "ALL"? Do you know what APRS
                        clients and/or firm/hardware stations actually honor the query and
                        respond with a position packet? I'd actually hate to hear the channel
                        when one of these is dropped, though.

                        Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

                        PS. There's also ?IGATE? and ?WX? as "generic" queries, for the sake of
                        those that have not yet cracked the covers of aprs101.pdf.


                        Ian Wade G3NRW wrote:
                        >
                        > Would the general ?APRS? Query (with optional targeted footprint) help
                        > here? See page 78 of the APRS Specification at:
                        >
                        > http://www.tapr.org/aprs_working_group.html
                        >
                        >
                      • Ian Wade G3NRW
                        From: Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 Time: 08:25:07 ... That is my understanding. In fact, I guess there are several
                        Message 11 of 16 , Dec 31, 2010
                          From: "Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)" <kj4erj@...>
                          Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 Time: 08:25:07

                          >That query came up in a conversion with another station just yesterday.
                          >Do you know what the raw packet format is for said query? Do you just
                          >send it as an APRS message addressed to "ALL"?

                          That is my understanding. In fact, I guess there are several possible
                          options for the destination address that could make sense (see Generic
                          APRS Destination Addresses on page 13 of the spec).

                          The Information Field of the packet would contain just the 6-character
                          string ?APRS? by itself, or optionally ?APRS? followed by the
                          lat/long/radius of the target area. See the examples on page 78 of the
                          spec.


                          >Do you know what APRS
                          >clients and/or firm/hardware stations actually honor the query and
                          >respond with a position packet?

                          No I don't. It's been a few years now since I looked at APRS
                          software/hardware in detail. I'm sure Bob Bruninga would be able to
                          advise.


                          >I'd actually hate to hear the channel
                          >when one of these is dropped, though.

                          Yup!

                          --
                          73
                          Ian, G3NRW
                        • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
                          Ah, the lightbulb lights over the head of KJ4ERJ! Fireworks spray into the sky! A people-wave spreads across the entire planet! I can see it more clearly
                          Message 12 of 16 , Dec 31, 2010
                            Ah, the lightbulb lights over the head of KJ4ERJ! Fireworks spray into
                            the sky! A people-wave spreads across the entire planet! I can see it
                            more clearly now! (oh wait, I'm getting about 14 hours ahead of
                            myself. New Year's isn't here yet, regardless of what those New Zealand
                            and Australian folks might be thinking).

                            I was under the mistaken understanding that the general queries were the
                            content inside an APRS message packet just like the directed station
                            query, but they aren't. The ? is the actual APRS data type and is a
                            packet format of its own. I get it now!

                            In this case, the toCall shouldn't matter and can probably remain the
                            normal application identifier. I was thinking I needed a generic
                            station identifier to send the APRS message to (ALL, QST, or CQ from the
                            top of page 73), but I don't.

                            So, in addition to wondering what clients and devices might respond to
                            such queries, I wonder what clients and/or devices are even capable of
                            generating such queries? Directed station queries are easy. Any client
                            that supports APRS messaging to a station can generate one of those.
                            This is an entirely different packet!

                            Ok, armed with this new understanding (thank you Ian), when I get to
                            supporting queries more directly, I'll be posting some questions to the
                            aprssig to find out just what the existing support might be....

                            Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

                            Ian Wade G3NRW wrote:
                            > From: "Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)" <kj4erj@...>
                            > Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 Time: 08:25:07
                            >
                            >
                            >> That query came up in a conversion with another station just yesterday.
                            >> Do you know what the raw packet format is for said query? Do you just
                            >> send it as an APRS message addressed to "ALL"?
                            >>
                            >
                            > That is my understanding. In fact, I guess there are several possible
                            > options for the destination address that could make sense (see Generic
                            > APRS Destination Addresses on page 13 of the spec).
                            >
                            > The Information Field of the packet would contain just the 6-character
                            > string ?APRS? by itself, or optionally ?APRS? followed by the
                            > lat/long/radius of the target area. See the examples on page 78 of the
                            > spec.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >> Do you know what APRS
                            >> clients and/or firm/hardware stations actually honor the query and
                            >> respond with a position packet?
                            >>
                            >
                            > No I don't. It's been a few years now since I looked at APRS
                            > software/hardware in detail. I'm sure Bob Bruninga would be able to
                            > advise.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >> I'd actually hate to hear the channel
                            >> when one of these is dropped, though.
                            >>
                            >
                            > Yup!
                            >
                            >
                          • Ian Wade G3NRW
                            From: Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 Time: 10:11:08 ... Go on, I dare you. Send an ?APRS? query and see what happens ....
                            Message 13 of 16 , Dec 31, 2010
                              From: "Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)" <kj4erj@...>
                              Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 Time: 10:11:08

                              >So, in addition to wondering what clients and devices might respond to
                              >such queries, I wonder what clients and/or devices are even capable of
                              >generating such queries?

                              Go on, I dare you. Send an ?APRS? query and see what happens .... :-)

                              --
                              73
                              Ian, G3NRW
                            • w7boz
                              Hi Lynn, I will turn the NOGATE off on the DX Cluster. Let me know when you get what you need and I can put NOGATE or RFONLY back in the path. Also I
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jan 1, 2011
                                Hi Lynn,
                                I will turn the "NOGATE" off on the DX Cluster. Let me know when you get what you need and I can put "NOGATE or RFONLY" back in the path. Also I emailed you about the RESOURCE packets. They come from the same application.
                                Kevin
                                W7BOZ

                                --- In aprsisce@yahoogroups.com, "Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)" <kj4erj@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I'm familiar with it and have not yet implemented either of them. They
                                > are on the list to complete the Igate function in APRSISCE/32, but I'm
                                > sure you're aware that there were discussions on one of the APRS lists a
                                > few months ago how those path elements are not guarantees of any sort of
                                > privacy or non-recording of APRS packets, but simply requests for the same.
                                >
                                > There was an individual asking for a way to delete a recorded track from
                                > "APRS" as well as a way to support tracking with a guarantee of
                                > non-recording of the transmitted information. He was informed of the
                                > "request" status of those path components and recommended that he not
                                > transmit (in the clear, as required by amateur rules) any information
                                > that he didn't want to come back to haunt him. (paraphrasing loosely
                                > his implied intent).
                                >
                                > Can you send me a copy of your DX cluster packets that are currently
                                > NOGATE? Or just take NOGATE off for a while and I'll capture them via
                                > APRS-IS. I'm trying to develop some viewer (and generator) of DX
                                > packets, but there's a positive dearth of documentation and samples out
                                > there.
                                >
                                > Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
                                >
                                > Kevin Bosworth - W7BOZ wrote:
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Are you familiar with NOGATE and RFONLY used in the path? This tells
                                > > I-gates not too forward to IS. I use it with my Dx Cluster packets.
                                > > Kevin
                                > > W7boz
                                > >
                                > > Sent from my APRS HTC Mogul phone running Aprsisce.
                                > > http://aprs.fi/?call=w7boz-12
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
                                I m still only seeing the original RESORC packets that I posted the other day, not even in the raw packets of W7BOZ
                                Message 15 of 16 , Jan 1, 2011
                                  I'm still only seeing the original >RESORC packets that I posted the
                                  other day, not even in the raw packets of W7BOZ
                                  (http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=W7BOZ&limit=50&view=normal). Hm, do you
                                  have a way to capture the raw packets and send them to me?

                                  Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

                                  w7boz wrote:
                                  > Hi Lynn,
                                  > I will turn the "NOGATE" off on the DX Cluster. Let me know when you get what you need and I can put "NOGATE or RFONLY" back in the path. Also I emailed you about the RESOURCE packets. They come from the same application.
                                  > Kevin
                                  > W7BOZ
                                  >
                                  > --- In aprsisce@yahoogroups.com, "Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)" <kj4erj@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >> I'm familiar with it and have not yet implemented either of them. They
                                  >> are on the list to complete the Igate function in APRSISCE/32, but I'm
                                  >> sure you're aware that there were discussions on one of the APRS lists a
                                  >> few months ago how those path elements are not guarantees of any sort of
                                  >> privacy or non-recording of APRS packets, but simply requests for the same.
                                  >>
                                  >> There was an individual asking for a way to delete a recorded track from
                                  >> "APRS" as well as a way to support tracking with a guarantee of
                                  >> non-recording of the transmitted information. He was informed of the
                                  >> "request" status of those path components and recommended that he not
                                  >> transmit (in the clear, as required by amateur rules) any information
                                  >> that he didn't want to come back to haunt him. (paraphrasing loosely
                                  >> his implied intent).
                                  >>
                                  >> Can you send me a copy of your DX cluster packets that are currently
                                  >> NOGATE? Or just take NOGATE off for a while and I'll capture them via
                                  >> APRS-IS. I'm trying to develop some viewer (and generator) of DX
                                  >> packets, but there's a positive dearth of documentation and samples out
                                  >> there.
                                  >>
                                  >> Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
                                  >>
                                  >> Kevin Bosworth - W7BOZ wrote:
                                  >>
                                  >>> Are you familiar with NOGATE and RFONLY used in the path? This tells
                                  >>> I-gates not too forward to IS. I use it with my Dx Cluster packets.
                                  >>> Kevin
                                  >>> W7boz
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Sent from my APRS HTC Mogul phone running Aprsisce.
                                  >>> http://aprs.fi/?call=w7boz-12
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Kevin Bosworth - W7BOZ
                                  Lynn, I don t really have a way 2 capture them. But running Winpack to monitor and capture all traffic. As soon as I get some data captured I will send it.
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Jan 2, 2011
                                    Lynn,
                                    I don't really have a way 2 capture them But running Winpack to monitor and capture all traffic. As soon as I get some data captured I will send it.
                                    Kevin

                                    Sent from my APRS HTC Mogul phone running Aprsisce. http://aprs.fi/?call=w7boz-12
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