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Re: [aprsisce] Radar overlays

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  • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
    Minor each time, or minor as accumulated over time? This client may be running with 8-10 year old data sets. How bad would it be for someone to not take
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 1, 2010
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      Minor each time, or minor as accumulated over time?

      This client may be running with 8-10 year old data sets. How bad would
      it be for someone to not take action because APRSISCE/32 showed that
      they were outside the warning area, but only because that area had been
      moved since their last update?

      My other issue is that when I tried to actually find and download the
      region definitions, they're only available in one place and
      (dis)organized as only a government can design (by committee with N
      levels of oversight).

      Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Still the paranoid one...

      Steve wrote:
      >
      >
      > The definitions are usually changed around twice a year I believe, the
      > boundary changes are very minor as a rule!
      > 73
      > Steve W kf6wax
      >
      > On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 6:07 AM, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
      > <kj4erj@... <mailto:kj4erj@...>> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > Mike Miller wrote:
      > > Any chance of getting weather radar overlays or equivalent?
      > >
      >
      > Julian already told you about left/right for map transparency
      > (http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/transparency), but wisely left this
      > one for
      > an archive search. If you've already done that, we'll see how
      > consistent I'm being...
      >
      > Radar overlays require non-APRS-sourced dynamic data that comes from
      > other places on the Internet. My intent is to focus primarily on
      > directly amateur radio-sourced, preferably APRS-sourced data features
      > for APRSISCE/32. So, the short answer is: it's on the bottom of the
      > ToDo list. Here's some related features that will be coming first,
      > although possibly not soon:
      >
      > Area objects - These are APRS-standard objects that draw shapes on
      > the maps
      >
      > Weather and Telemetry graphs - Time-accumulated graphs of weather and
      > telemetry parameters
      >
      > Alternate map pane sources - Provide an easier way to switch to
      > user-identified 256x256 pane map panels
      >
      > UI-View map support - Abiltiy to use arbitrarily sized/scaled
      > (.INF-defined) UI-View maps
      >
      > One of my concerns with the radar overlays is the possibility of
      > incorrect data display if the defined area boundaries change and the
      > user has not yet updated to the current definitions. I error on the
      > side of caution rather than incorrect data display since the actual
      > alerts don't provide any version reference back to the definitions on
      > which they are based. Does anyone know how often the defintions are
      > changed anyway?
      >
      > And now that I've gone this far, I realize that you asked about
      > "radar..or equivalent" which may or may not be related to the weather
      > area alerts that I've discussed above. Is this what you're asking
      > about
      > or is there another UI-View feature (you mentioned that you've
      > used it
      > for years) of which I'm unaware.
      >
      > Just to update you all, I've only run UI-View for about a week or so
      > well over a year ago. When I learned of the demise of the source
      > code,
      > I decided to write my own and remomved UI-View so as not to be unduly
      > influenced by what was done before. For a similar reason, I also
      > don't
      > run xastir (coupled with the fact that I only ever got it to work
      > in a
      > VM, not a native Windows build). So, if you want a feature from
      > one of
      > these programs, please be prepared to define the functionality, data
      > sources, and appearance that you really want, not just name it or
      > point
      > me to what has been done before. I'm trying to advance the state
      > of the
      > APRS client by functionality, not mimic what's been done just because
      > it's what we might be used to.
      >
      > Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
      >
      > PS. If you download the release notes from the Files section of the
      > Yahoo group, my ToDo list and notes are at the bottom.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
      ZERO opacity = 100% Transparency. Hit your left arrow 20 times and you re there (note that APRSISCE/32 will switch from Mercatur to Azimuthal projection at
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 1, 2010
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        ZERO opacity = 100% Transparency. Hit your left arrow 20 times and
        you're there (note that APRSISCE/32 will switch from Mercatur to
        Azimuthal projection at 100% transparent)

        If you meant 0% transparency = 100% opacity as Julian said, then hit
        your right arrow 20 times and you're there.

        The reason the default is 50% is that I found that opaque maps made the
        stations harder to see. It's in the middle so people can go either way
        with ease.

        Also, no matter what the default is, people will still not read the
        documentation and will never know it can be different. If the default
        looks different than the source (http://OpenStreetMap.org, not that
        they'd ever go there either), then maybe they'll go looking for why.

        Maybe I need to make a list of "hints" that send themselves to new users
        at some (random) interval after startup. One of those "Did you know
        that..." type series that drive us totally to distraction at their
        inane-ity after the first time we see the series. Yeah, every time we
        make a new instance of APRSICE/32, we get subjected to the list all over
        again!

        Nah, that would never work. New users would still ask the question even
        when that's the very next "hint" that was going to come up. Either
        that, or they'd hit the "never show me these again" on the second hint
        and the effort would be completely wasted.

        New users are going to do what new users (including me) do, they're
        going to ask. That's why my goal is to make single-point Wiki pages so
        that answers can be just a link to the appropriate Wiki page. If I ever
        get enough of such pages written...

        Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

        PS. Did you know that if you have Configure / Screen / GridSquare
        checked, you'll see unlabelled gridsquare rectangles on your map at 45
        and 95% opacity? Helpful to know where the edge of your current square
        actually is!

        Steve wrote:
        >
        >
        > I agree Julian...lets have ZERO opacity for maps please Lynn!
        > 73
        > Steve W kf6wax
        >
        > On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 4:00 AM, g4ilo <julian.g4ilo@...
        > <mailto:julian.g4ilo@...>> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
        > <mailto:aprsisce%40yahoogroups.com>, "Mike Miller"
        > <mike.kc9doa@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Dumb question. Is there a way to increase the contrast of the
        > > map display in APRSIS32 ? Map looks good, but is washed out like
        > > viewing through ground glass.
        >
        > That's a FAQ. Hit the right arrow key about 10 times. By default
        > the maps are 50% transparency. Personally I think Lynn should make
        > 0% transparency the default, as I don't think people would
        > complain about the maps being too opaque, but he's the one who
        > usually answers the questions! :)
        >
        > >
        > > I'm a first time user so I have much to learn. It didn't take
        > > too much effort to get it talking to AGWpe and APRSIS. I've been
        > > using UI-View for 5 or 6 years.
        > >
        > > Any chance of getting weather radar overlays or equivalent?
        > >
        >
        > That's also a fairly FAQ, but you'll have to search the archives
        > as I don't remember the answer.
        >
        > Julian, G4ILO
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Steve
        Just to confirm we are talking about the same thing Lynn, Conus files and so on? If so I have run on 2 year old files and there is hardly any noticable
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 1, 2010
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          Just to confirm we are talking about the same thing Lynn, Conus files and so on?
          If so I have run on 2 year old files and there is hardly any noticable difference in the updated files,
          73
          Steve W



          On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 6:56 AM, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) <kj4erj@...> wrote:
          Minor each time, or minor as accumulated over time?

          This client may be running with 8-10 year old data sets.  How bad would
          it be for someone to not take action because APRSISCE/32 showed that
          they were outside the warning area, but only because that area had been
          moved since their last update?

          My other issue is that when I tried to actually find and download the
          region definitions, they're only available in one place and
          (dis)organized as only a government can design (by committee with N
          levels of oversight).

          Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Still the paranoid one...

          Steve wrote:
          >
          >
          > The definitions are usually changed around twice a year I believe, the
          > boundary changes are very minor as a rule!
          > 73
          > Steve W  kf6wax
          >
          > On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 6:07 AM, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
          > <kj4erj@... <mailto:kj4erj@...>> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          >     Mike Miller wrote:
          >     > Any chance of getting weather radar overlays or equivalent?
          >     >
          >
          >     Julian already told you about left/right for map transparency
          >     (http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/transparency), but wisely left this
          >     one for
          >     an archive search. If you've already done that, we'll see how
          >     consistent I'm being...
          >
          >     Radar overlays require non-APRS-sourced dynamic data that comes from
          >     other places on the Internet. My intent is to focus primarily on
          >     directly amateur radio-sourced, preferably APRS-sourced data features
          >     for APRSISCE/32. So, the short answer is: it's on the bottom of the
          >     ToDo list. Here's some related features that will be coming first,
          >     although possibly not soon:
          >
          >     Area objects - These are APRS-standard objects that draw shapes on
          >     the maps
          >
          >     Weather and Telemetry graphs - Time-accumulated graphs of weather and
          >     telemetry parameters
          >
          >     Alternate map pane sources - Provide an easier way to switch to
          >     user-identified 256x256 pane map panels
          >
          >     UI-View map support - Abiltiy to use arbitrarily sized/scaled
          >     (.INF-defined) UI-View maps
          >
          >     One of my concerns with the radar overlays is the possibility of
          >     incorrect data display if the defined area boundaries change and the
          >     user has not yet updated to the current definitions. I error on the
          >     side of caution rather than incorrect data display since the actual
          >     alerts don't provide any version reference back to the definitions on
          >     which they are based. Does anyone know how often the defintions are
          >     changed anyway?
          >
          >     And now that I've gone this far, I realize that you asked about
          >     "radar..or equivalent" which may or may not be related to the weather
          >     area alerts that I've discussed above. Is this what you're asking
          >     about
          >     or is there another UI-View feature (you mentioned that you've
          >     used it
          >     for years) of which I'm unaware.
          >
          >     Just to update you all, I've only run UI-View for about a week or so
          >     well over a year ago. When I learned of the demise of the source
          >     code,
          >     I decided to write my own and remomved UI-View so as not to be unduly
          >     influenced by what was done before. For a similar reason, I also
          >     don't
          >     run xastir (coupled with the fact that I only ever got it to work
          >     in a
          >     VM, not a native Windows build). So, if you want a feature from
          >     one of
          >     these programs, please be prepared to define the functionality, data
          >     sources, and appearance that you really want, not just name it or
          >     point
          >     me to what has been done before. I'm trying to advance the state
          >     of the
          >     APRS client by functionality, not mimic what's been done just because
          >     it's what we might be used to.
          >
          >     Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
          >
          >     PS. If you download the release notes from the Files section of the
          >     Yahoo group, my ToDo list and notes are at the bottom.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >



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        • Randy Love
          This is a bit moot if you are able to get the actual polygon defined warning areas. Warning by county has been keep for backwards compatibility with SAME
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 1, 2010
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            This is a bit moot if you are able to get the actual polygon defined warning areas. Warning by county has been keep for backwards compatibility with SAME radios and media consumption. As a rule now, all warnings are issued with an exact polygon defined by coordinates of the area in question. This would preclude the need for those pesky shapefiles that they seem to update twice a year.

            Like I said, the trick is getting the polygon definition over APRS. They aren't ported (yet anyway) to APRS-IS. Those warnings that are still use the county/zone number definitions, thus requiring the shapefiles to define the warned area.

            For a little more background, see this page:
            http://www.weather.gov/sbwarnings/   
            ( I love that they used counties from my home state of Arkansas in the graphic examples :)

            And here is a page that lists, in brief, the last 10 warnings and their polygon data:
            http://www.weather.gov/regsci/gis/last10.html

            Finally, a warning showing the polygon data at the bottom of the message:
            http://www.crh.noaa.gov/product.php?site=DTX&issuedby=LWX&product=SVR&format=txt&version=1&glossary=0
            (This last link is time sensitive, and may not display any data if the last warning is over 72 hours old.)

            73,
            Randy
            WF5X

            PS. We'll be on the air from K8DTX - NWS Detroit/Pontiac MI for SRD.. :)


          • Mike Miller
            ... Take a look at NWSGet. It is a UI-View add on that only works with Precision Mapping maps, but is one of the most important features of UI-View as far as
            Message 5 of 14 , Dec 1, 2010
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              On 1 Dec 2010 at 6:07, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) wrote:

              > And now that I've gone this far, I realize that you asked about
              > "radar..or equivalent" which may or may not be related to the
              > weather
              > area alerts that I've discussed above. Is this what you're
              > asking about
              > or is there another UI-View feature (you mentioned that you've
              > used it
              > for years) of which I'm unaware.

              Take a look at NWSGet. It is a UI-View add on that only works
              with Precision Mapping maps, but is one of the most important
              features of UI-View as far as I'm concerned. It might be
              difficult to impossible it implement in APRSIS32.
              <http://www.billdiaz.dynip.com/nwsgetdetails.htm>

              Also weather warning areas are going to polygons rather than the
              older shape files so it might be possible to for you to display
              them when they are available.

              Mike kc9doa
            • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
              ... I cannot (and will not, by choice) take a look at anything in UI-View. As I stated recently, I do not run any other APRS client on purpose so as to not
              Message 6 of 14 , Dec 1, 2010
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                Mike Miller wrote:
                > Take a look at NWSGet. It is a UI-View add on that only works
                > with Precision Mapping maps, but is one of the most important
                > features of UI-View as far as I'm concerned. It might be
                > difficult to impossible it implement in APRSIS32.
                > <http://www.billdiaz.dynip.com/nwsgetdetails.htm>
                >

                I cannot (and will not, by choice) "take a look" at anything in
                UI-View. As I stated recently, I do not run any other APRS client on
                purpose so as to not simply mimic what others have done, but deliver the
                desired and useful functionality, not just a previously done
                look-and-feel. If you can describe the function and what you use it for
                and how you use it, I will listen and attempt to understand.

                > Also weather warning areas are going to polygons rather than the
                > older shape files so it might be possible to for you to display
                > them when they are available.
                >

                So I've recently learned. I bookmarked the NWS URLs that were just
                posted here and will see what I can do with them both from a central
                server publishing the area objects and displaying those objects in
                APRSISCE/32 in some future version.

                Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
              • Randy Love
                This is just my opinion, Lynn, but I think the warning by polygon should be a snap once you get area objects implemented. As Dennis Miller would say, That s
                Message 7 of 14 , Dec 1, 2010
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                  This is just my opinion, Lynn, but I think the warning by polygon should be a snap once you get area objects implemented.

                  As Dennis Miller would say, "That's just my opinion. I could be wrong."

                  73,
                  Randy
                  WF5X

                • Mike Miller
                  ... Okay, what NWSGet does is download the latest radar image from the selected radar site and creates an underlay for the map allowing you to zoom and scroll
                  Message 8 of 14 , Dec 1, 2010
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                    On 1 Dec 2010 at 12:49, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) wrote:

                    > I cannot (and will not, by choice) "take a look" at anything in
                    > UI-View. As I stated recently, I do not run any other APRS
                    > client on
                    > purpose so as to not simply mimic what others have done, but
                    > deliver the
                    > desired and useful functionality, not just a previously done
                    > look-and-feel. If you can describe the function and what you
                    > use it for
                    > and how you use it, I will listen and attempt to understand.

                    Okay, what NWSGet does is download the latest radar image from
                    the selected radar site and creates an underlay for the map
                    allowing you to zoom and scroll the image along with the map.
                    This allows you to see the position of APRS equipped storm
                    spotters relative to storm features such as thunderstorm cells.

                    I'm sure many spotter groups use more sophisticated weather
                    programs. My real use is to allow my APRS display to show me
                    when storms move into the area without manually going to the
                    NOAA website to check the radar.

                    Mike kc9doa
                  • Brian Webster
                    Lynn, Basically what he is talking about is pulling the public domain weather radar image data and overlaying them on the APRS maps. It becomes an overlay
                    Message 9 of 14 , Dec 1, 2010
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                      Lynn,

                                      Basically what he is talking about is pulling the public domain weather radar image data and overlaying them on the APRS maps. It becomes an overlay showing the weather radar with the rest of the map being transparent. Many of the APRS programs support this in various forms which is probably why there is the interest. They are somewhat real time but do not update any quicker than every 5 minutes. The people who use this feature like being able to show where storms and such are relative to the objects on the APRS map. I haven’t followed the latest updates to the file format for the data but there are many different implementations of this information in other programs like Google Earth. An auto refresh every 5 minutes of the radar image would be desirable.

                       



                      Brian N2KGC

                       

                      From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
                      Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 12:49 PM
                      To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [aprsisce] Radar overlays

                       

                       

                      Mike Miller wrote:

                      > Take a look at NWSGet. It is a UI-View add on that only works
                      > with Precision Mapping maps, but is one of the most important
                      > features of UI-View as far as I'm concerned. It might be
                      > difficult to impossible it implement in APRSIS32.
                      > <http://www.billdiaz.dynip.com/nwsgetdetails.htm>
                      >

                      I cannot (and will not, by choice) "take a look" at anything in
                      UI-View. As I stated recently, I do not run any other APRS client on
                      purpose so as to not simply mimic what others have done, but deliver the
                      desired and useful functionality, not just a previously done
                      look-and-feel. If you can describe the function and what you use it for
                      and how you use it, I will listen and attempt to understand.

                      > Also weather warning areas are going to polygons rather than the
                      > older shape files so it might be possible to for you to display
                      > them when they are available.
                      >

                      So I've recently learned. I bookmarked the NWS URLs that were just
                      posted here and will see what I can do with them both from a central
                      server publishing the area objects and displaying those objects in
                      APRSISCE/32 in some future version.

                      Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32

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