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Program used with Search and Rescue

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  • M E
    Lynn, I had a chance to use the software over the weekend on a SAR mission.. Couple of thoughts.. - Need a way to Pre-Download everything possible when it
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 30, 2010
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      Lynn,  

      I had a chance to use the software over the weekend on a SAR mission..   Couple of thoughts.. 

      - Need a way to Pre-Download everything possible when it comes to the maps.  Maybe for a specific set of coordinates or something.   My personal truck has an aircard in it but we ran into places where we didn't have coverage.    

      - Need to be able to track 3 or more units at once on the same screen.   I didn't find this as an option I might have just missed it though. 

      - Option to have various maps..  SAT - Open APRS - Topo?  And to switch between them?    We used it in 2 places for this mission..  One of the support trucks (Mine) and the command truck at the base.   We had a couple of trucks following the K9 unit and it would have been nice to be able to switch to a sat view at various points.  


      Here are a few ideas for SAR stuff.  Others may have some more requests. 

      - A way to set basic perimeter circles in various colors..   At various increments like 1 Mile, 2 mile 3 mile..   (would be nice to send these circles behind the roads / other data like you can do with mappoint.. 

      - Download of other data like from instamapper or google latitude (Yes I know this is a ham radio program)


      We enjoyed having the software available to use to use.   We generally use APRSpoint but felt we would try this once and see how it worked.  



    • Fred Hillhouse
      ... Couple of thoughts.. ... maps. ... didn t have coverage. You can pre-load maps by enabling OSM Fetch Enable and surfing around the area of interest. Also
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 30, 2010
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        > I had a chance to use the software over the weekend on a SAR mission..
        Couple of thoughts..
        > - Need a way to Pre-Download everything possible when it comes to the
        maps.
        > - Maybe for a specific set of coordinates or something.
        > - My personal truck has an aircard in it but we ran into places where we
        didn't have coverage.

        You can pre-load maps by enabling OSM Fetch Enable and surfing around the
        area of interest. Also other tiles sets can be found with a bit of looking.
        Cyclemaps has topographical maps with a bicycling interest. It may take a
        few visits to the same area to get the required zoom. In you are in MA, then
        there is a nice set of topographical tiles that rival anything else I have
        seen.

        - Need to be able to track 3 or more units at once on the same screen. I
        didn't find this as an option I might have just missed it though.

        There is a Multi-track option which will track a single point on separate
        maps. Currently that is the limit. You did mentioned getting maps while you
        were out so maybe set the filters to only get the stations of interest for
        starters. My use in a vehicle is limited to only those heard over RF and the
        filtering doesn't apply.

        > - Option to have various maps.. SAT - Open APRS - Topo?
        > - And to switch between them?
        > - We used it in 2 places for this mission.
        > - One of the support trucks (Mine) and the command truck at the base.
        > - We had a couple of trucks following the K9 unit and it would have been
        nice to be able to switch to a sat view at various points.

        Again, look for different tile sets. If you have the resources, you might
        consider running a renderer. I don't know what is involved there yet but it
        is possible.

        > Here are a few ideas for SAR stuff. Others may have some more requests.

        > - A way to set basic perimeter circles in various colors.
        > - At various increments like 1 Mile, 2 mile 3 mile.
        > - (would be nice to send these circles behind the roads / other data like
        you can do with mappoint..

        Another package I use (no-APRS), has user configurable range rings.
        Currently there is a single ring or circle as it is called in APRSIS32.

        > - Download of other data like from instamapper or google latitude (Yes I
        know this is a ham radio program).

        Maybe in time! ;)

        > We enjoyed having the software available to use to use.

        I use it daily and enjoy it quite a bit.

        > We generally use APRSpoint but felt we would try this once and see how it
        worked.

        Don't just try it once! Keep it up and keep commenting! Lynn is always
        adding features.

        Best regards,
        Fred, N7FMH
      • Fred Hillhouse
        I should have added: there is a Prefetch option which will grab the current zoom level and some number of levels below that. It is four levels total I think.
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 30, 2010
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          I should have added: there is a Prefetch option which will grab the current zoom level and some number of levels below that. It is four levels total I think.
           
          ToolBar>Screen>Map>Prefetch is how you do that.
           
          You will see the yellow expanding circle indicating map fetching is in progress. And, you can prefetch in one area and then move and prefetch another area. If you are not careful, you can request too many tiles and it will look like the circle had stopped. It just needs to catch up. Beware, in theory you can download too many tiles and loose access. In practice, I have downloaded a bunch and not hit a wall yet. But of course, I do it over a longer period of time than the prefetch works at.
           
          Lynn, I would actually the option to turn off the "are you sure you really want to download ~2900 tiles". My feelings are that if I have taken the steps to get far enough to prefetch tiles, answering the question seems a bit like redundancy. Besides, I have never said cancel.
           
          There are a few GPS simulators out that can run a route for you. I wrote one for me that can cover an area, like a grid square a route, over a period of time. I usually will grab the current zoom (and the one under it) in several hours rather than all at once. Then, I repeat the process the area again at another level until I get the tiles I want.
           
           
          Best regards,
          Fred
           
           


          From: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com [mailto:aprsisce@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Fred Hillhouse
          Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 13:34
          To: aprsisce@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [aprsisce] Program used with Search and Rescue

           

          > I had a chance to use the software over the weekend on a SAR

          mission..
          Couple of thoughts..
          > - Need a way to Pre-Download
          everything possible when it comes to the
          maps.
          > - Maybe for a specific
          set of coordinates or something.
          > - My personal truck has an aircard in
          it but we ran into places where we
          didn't have coverage.

          You can pre-load maps by enabling OSM Fetch Enable and surfing around the
          area of interest. Also other tiles sets can be found with a bit of looking.
          Cyclemaps has topographical maps with a bicycling interest. It may take a
          few visits to the same area to get the required zoom. In you are in MA, then
          there is a nice set of topographical tiles that rival anything else I have
          seen.

          -
        • Colin Catlin
          ... Can your GPS simulator use a *.gpx file to select the route?, at the moment I do the prefetch manually, so if your simulator can do the work for me I would
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 30, 2010
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            Hi Fred Hillhouse you wrote:
            There are a few GPS simulators out that can run a route for you. I wrote one for me that can cover an area, like a grid square a route, over a period of time. I usually will grab the current zoom (and the one under it) in several hours rather than all at once. Then, I repeat the process the area again at another level until I get the tiles I want.
            Can your GPS simulator use a *.gpx file to select the route?, at the moment I do the prefetch manually, so if your simulator can do the work for me I would be very interested in obtaining a copy.


            73,
            Colin.
          • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
            ... Thank you for your feedback and suggestions. There s a lot here, so I had to mull through it before answering. Sorry about the delay. ... You really
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 1, 2010
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              M E wrote:
              I had a chance to use the software over the weekend on a SAR mission..   Couple of thoughts..

              Thank you for your feedback and suggestions.  There's a lot here, so I had to mull through it before answering.  Sorry about the delay.

              - Need a way to Pre-Download everything possible when it comes to the maps.  Maybe for a specific set of coordinates or something.   My personal truck has an aircard in it but we ran into places where we didn't have coverage.   

              You really don't want to download "everything", do you?  For zoom level 18, that'd be over 22 BILLION individual tile files (http://aprsisce.wikidot.com/map-prefetch).  As is described on that page and mentioned in one of the responses, Screen / Map / Prefetch will fetch the current and 2 levels of additional detail for (slightly larger than) the visible map space.  You can then shift the view (pan or zoom) and do it again to build up a queue of fetches.  Please read through the referenced page and see if you have any further questions about current support.

              You can always simply fade the maps out to 100% transparency (left arrow at most 20 times) at which point APRSISCE/32 reverts to a circular display of data based on range and bearing.

              - Need to be able to track 3 or more units at once on the same screen.   I didn't find this as an option I might have just missed it though.

              As was mentioned, MultiTrack is what you get for now.  I've got grand plans of a mode that dynamically splits and merges moving MultiTrack windows around on the desktop automatically based on their relative actual positions but that's quite some time out in the future.  My biggest issue of tracking multiple targets in a single window is the automatic zooming that would need to take place coupled with the fact that the main map display isn't rectangular (note how all the edges are covered with other information).  I'm still trying to wrap my brain around the best way to  accomplish this without having a station end up just under the edge of something and not visible anyway.  Easy to ask for, not so easy to do.


              - Option to have various maps..  SAT - Open APRS - Topo?  And to switch between them?    We used it in 2 places for this mission..  One of the support trucks (Mine) and the command truck at the base.   We had a couple of trucks following the K9 unit and it would have been nice to be able to switch to a sat view at various points. 

              OpenStreetMap.org maps were chosen as the only ones I could find that are unencumbered.  Yes, it would definitely be nice to see satellite overlays and maps that you see in other applications.  Unfortunately, they come with license or bandwidth or cost encumbrances (one of them has a license that says you can't display GPS-sourced data newer than N hours on their maps).

              I've got a ToDo item to make maps more user-switchable now that more and more map sources are available on the Internet.  The 256x256 pane-based sources will, of course, be easier to hook into, but only time will tell what I come up with.


              Here are a few ideas for SAR stuff.  Others may have some more requests. 

              - A way to set basic perimeter circles in various colors..   At various increments like 1 Mile, 2 mile 3 mile..   (would be nice to send these circles behind the roads / other data like you can do with mappoint..

              MapPoint uses vector maps that are locally drawn.  OSM maps are bitmapped images and APRSISCE/32 is completely unaware of the "roads / other data" that may or may not be present on the map.  There's no way I know of to put anything "behind" the map.

              That said, I'm having trouble understanding your request.  The circle currently displayed in APRSISCE/32 is there to provide an idea of the map scale.  This is the number presented in the box below the +/- bar on the left side of the map.  Since I'm using pre-rendered and scaled OSM map tiles and the user (or device) is sizing the window, I'm not in control of exactly how much data is displayed.  I opted for putting the maximum sized circle on the screen and showing the radius of that circle from the screen center.  In that way, the range circle is less likely to be covering up the primary display of information in the client.

              If you can describe, or mock up, what you're asking for, hopefully I can get my brain to understand it.

              - Download of other data like from instamapper or google latitude (Yes I know this is a ham radio program)

              See my recent post about APRS-sourced data.  My goal is to have APRSISCE/32 deliver amateur radio-sourced data first.  When I run out of that, I'll see about hooking into others.  But, they'd better have a published API and license that allows access to their data because I'm severely lawsuit-averse.

              We enjoyed having the software available to use to use.   We generally use APRSpoint but felt we would try this once and see how it worked.

              I'm glad you did and thank you for the feedback.  If you have a chance to use it in future exercises, I'd welcome the feedback from those again.  As you've hopefully read in my other posts, I don't run other APRS clients and am focused on delivering the functions and features that people can describe and justify, not just because X or Y does it.  In truth, I AM out to re-invent the wheel, but hopefully a more useful wheel based on things the amateur radio or open community is in control of.

              Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSICE for Windows Mobile and Win32



            • Colin Catlin
              Hi Lynn, The circles at various increments sounds vaguely like the Gun Sight Graticule type display that I suggested when the idea of adding the
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 1, 2010
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                Hi Lynn,

                The 'circles at various increments' sounds vaguely like the 'Gun Sight
                Graticule' type display that I suggested when the idea of adding the
                'Crosshairs' was talked about.

                So perhaps some sort of user configurable Graticule come Enhanced
                Crosshairs might fit the bill.


                73,
                Colin.

                On 01/12/2010 11:35, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) wrote:
                >
                >> Here are a few ideas for SAR stuff. Others may have some more requests.
                >>
                >> - A way to set basic perimeter circles in various colors.. At
                >> various increments like 1 Mile, 2 mile 3 mile.. (would be nice to
                >> send these circles behind the roads / other data like you can do with
                >> mappoint..
                >
                > MapPoint uses vector maps that are locally drawn. OSM maps are
                > bitmapped images and APRSISCE/32 is completely unaware of the "roads /
                > other data" that may or may not be present on the map. There's no way
                > I know of to put anything "behind" the map.
                >
                > That said, I'm having trouble understanding your request. The circle
                > currently displayed in APRSISCE/32 is there to provide an idea of the
                > map scale. This is the number presented in the box below the +/- bar
                > on the left side of the map. Since I'm using pre-rendered and scaled
                > OSM map tiles and the user (or device) is sizing the window, I'm not
                > in control of exactly how much data is displayed. I opted for putting
                > the maximum sized circle on the screen and showing the radius of that
                > circle from the screen center. In that way, the range circle is less
                > likely to be covering up the primary display of information in the client.
                >
                > If you can describe, or mock up, what you're asking for, hopefully I
                > can get my brain to understand it.
              • Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr)
                Configurable by zoom level? Or fixed set of distances? How many distances? Only displayed if they fit inside the range circle and outside N times the size
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 1, 2010
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                  Configurable by zoom level? Or fixed set of distances? How many
                  distances? Only displayed if they fit inside the range circle and
                  outside N times the size of a station symbol? (Picture 1, 2, 3 mile
                  circles displayed with a range of 100 miles), pretty small little dot,
                  they'd become).

                  Lynn (D) - K4JERJ - Always angling for the details...

                  Colin Catlin wrote:
                  > Hi Lynn,
                  >
                  > The 'circles at various increments' sounds vaguely like the 'Gun Sight
                  > Graticule' type display that I suggested when the idea of adding the
                  > 'Crosshairs' was talked about.
                  >
                  > So perhaps some sort of user configurable Graticule come Enhanced
                  > Crosshairs might fit the bill.
                  >
                  >
                  > 73,
                  > Colin.
                  >
                  > On 01/12/2010 11:35, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) wrote:
                  >
                  >>> Here are a few ideas for SAR stuff. Others may have some more requests.
                  >>>
                  >>> - A way to set basic perimeter circles in various colors.. At
                  >>> various increments like 1 Mile, 2 mile 3 mile.. (would be nice to
                  >>> send these circles behind the roads / other data like you can do with
                  >>> mappoint..
                  >>>
                  >> MapPoint uses vector maps that are locally drawn. OSM maps are
                  >> bitmapped images and APRSISCE/32 is completely unaware of the "roads /
                  >> other data" that may or may not be present on the map. There's no way
                  >> I know of to put anything "behind" the map.
                  >>
                  >> That said, I'm having trouble understanding your request. The circle
                  >> currently displayed in APRSISCE/32 is there to provide an idea of the
                  >> map scale. This is the number presented in the box below the +/- bar
                  >> on the left side of the map. Since I'm using pre-rendered and scaled
                  >> OSM map tiles and the user (or device) is sizing the window, I'm not
                  >> in control of exactly how much data is displayed. I opted for putting
                  >> the maximum sized circle on the screen and showing the radius of that
                  >> circle from the screen center. In that way, the range circle is less
                  >> likely to be covering up the primary display of information in the client.
                  >>
                  >> If you can describe, or mock up, what you're asking for, hopefully I
                  >> can get my brain to understand it.
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Colin Catlin
                  Yes Lynn, I think that was where I said simple crosshairs will do . I like the scale 1,2,5,10,20 , if you zoom out it becomes 2,5,10,20,50 , zoom in
                  Message 8 of 9 , Dec 1, 2010
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                    Yes Lynn,

                    I think that was where I said 'simple crosshairs will do'.

                    I like the scale '1,2,5,10,20',
                    if you zoom out it becomes '2,5,10,20,50',
                    zoom in '0.5,1,2,5,10'.

                    Of course you would need to have the size of one circle defined somewhere on screen (I know you hate taking up valueable screen real estate).

                    The configurable bit would be how many circles to display,
                    personally I would only like to see complete range circles and decide how small the smallest should be on screen.
                    But until I see it on screen & have a play I wouldn't like to say.

                    And of course I did say 'simple crosshairs will do'.


                    73,
                    Colin.

                    On 01/12/2010 12:13, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) wrote:
                     

                    Configurable by zoom level? Or fixed set of distances? How many
                    distances? Only displayed if they fit inside the range circle and
                    outside N times the size of a station symbol? (Picture 1, 2, 3 mile
                    circles displayed with a range of 100 miles), pretty small little dot,
                    they'd become).

                    Lynn (D) - K4JERJ - Always angling for the details...

                    Colin Catlin wrote:
                    > Hi Lynn,
                    >
                    > The 'circles at various increments' sounds vaguely like the 'Gun Sight
                    > Graticule' type display that I suggested when the idea of adding the
                    > 'Crosshairs' was talked about.
                    >
                    > So perhaps some sort of user configurable Graticule come Enhanced
                    > Crosshairs might fit the bill.
                    >
                    >
                    > 73,
                    > Colin.
                    >
                    > On 01/12/2010 11:35, Lynn W Deffenbaugh (Mr) wrote:
                    >
                    >>> Here are a few ideas for SAR stuff. Others may have some more requests.
                    >>>
                    >>> - A way to set basic perimeter circles in various colors.. At
                    >>> various increments like 1 Mile, 2 mile 3 mile.. (would be nice to
                    >>> send these circles behind the roads / other data like you can do with
                    >>> mappoint..
                    >>>
                    >> MapPoint uses vector maps that are locally drawn. OSM maps are
                    >> bitmapped images and APRSISCE/32 is completely unaware of the "roads /
                    >> other data" that may or may not be present on the map. There's no way
                    >> I know of to put anything "behind" the map.
                    >>
                    >> That said, I'm having trouble understanding your request. The circle
                    >> currently displayed in APRSISCE/32 is there to provide an idea of the
                    >> map scale. This is the number presented in the box below the +/- bar
                    >> on the left side of the map. Since I'm using pre-rendered and scaled
                    >> OSM map tiles and the user (or device) is sizing the window, I'm not
                    >> in control of exactly how much data is displayed. I opted for putting
                    >> the maximum sized circle on the screen and showing the radius of that
                    >> circle from the screen center. In that way, the range circle is less
                    >> likely to be covering up the primary display of information in the client.
                    >>
                    >> If you can describe, or mock up, what you're asking for, hopefully I
                    >> can get my brain to understand it.
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >


                  • Fred Hillhouse
                    Hi Lynn, These are two examples of range rings. This software produces five rings at whatever range the user selects. There is already a crosshair option that
                    Message 9 of 9 , Dec 1, 2010
                    Hi Lynn,

                    These are two examples of range rings. This software produces five rings at
                    whatever range the user selects.

                    There is already a crosshair option that can be turned on. I don't know if
                    that is only in the development version or not.

                    Best regards,
                    Fred, N7FMH
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